Comments on: RWC: England regressing the game - c’mon The Boks! http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/ The Roar is a sports opinion website. We tackle sports opinion rather than simply sports news. And we embed user-generated content — in the form of articles and comments — into the fabric of the site. Featuring some of the best sports writers in Australia — including the Sydney Morning Herald's Spiro Zavos — The Roar aims to be the leading sports website in Australia. Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:57:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Mike http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15632 Mike Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:57:39 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15632 Yeah, I lived in London for over five years, and still have a few pommy mates around now I'm back in Oz, and the one true thing is that we love to hate each other. The best (and most fun) way to try and prove it is to sledge each other. I admit, that if Johnny had missed one kick, or Stirling made one more (not playing up to the "ifs" just pointing out how close it was), then I'm not sure there'd be so much fuss. The Poms would probably be tearing themselves apart, so we'd be left without a job, and therefore start taunting the "All Chokes" or something. The Aussies were the favourites (again, avoiding the "best team" debate), so this has left us feeling a bit ripped off, and the Poms were the underdogs, so the result quite rightly put back their swagger. That's like putting a mongoose and a cobra into a cauldron and slowly turning the heat up.... How do you moon someone with an emoticon?? Is it something like oB= ?? So to all you poms oB= And the saffas as well I suppose oB= I guess I couldn't leave the kiwis out oB= It's CRICKET SEASON!!! Yeah, I lived in London for over five years, and still have a few pommy mates around now I’m back in Oz, and the one true thing is that we love to hate each other. The best (and most fun) way to try and prove it is to sledge each other.

I admit, that if Johnny had missed one kick, or Stirling made one more (not playing up to the “ifs” just pointing out how close it was), then I’m not sure there’d be so much fuss. The Poms would probably be tearing themselves apart, so we’d be left without a job, and therefore start taunting the “All Chokes” or something.

The Aussies were the favourites (again, avoiding the “best team” debate), so this has left us feeling a bit ripped off, and the Poms were the underdogs, so the result quite rightly put back their swagger. That’s like putting a mongoose and a cobra into a cauldron and slowly turning the heat up….

How do you moon someone with an emoticon?? Is it something like oB= ??

So to all you poms oB=

And the saffas as well I suppose oB=

I guess I couldn’t leave the kiwis out oB=

It’s CRICKET SEASON!!!

]]> By: The Reiver http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15604 The Reiver Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:54:23 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15604 Matt, went to a mirror, looked hard, extracted a couple of overly long nasel hairs, sneezed !! yours in JEST The Reiver :D P.S. Having a rant is fun as long as the expletives are shelved. Doesn't look to me as though it's got nasty. Sarcastic maybe. If we had a bar attached to this site we'd probably all be having a beer and playfully taking the rip out of each other. Seems like that kind of thread, not a nasty one. This is where I probably find out that you're the site Admin and your post was serious and I am now barred. :( Matt, went to a mirror, looked hard, extracted a couple of overly long nasel hairs, sneezed !!

yours in JEST

The Reiver :D

P.S.
Having a rant is fun as long as the expletives are shelved. Doesn’t look to me as though it’s got nasty. Sarcastic maybe.
If we had a bar attached to this site we’d probably all be having a beer and playfully taking the rip out of each other.
Seems like that kind of thread, not a nasty one.
This is where I probably find out that you’re the site Admin and your post was serious and I am now barred. :(

]]> By: Matt http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15599 Matt Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:52:38 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15599 Jeez, I'm gone for two days and this post gets nasty on itself...Whatever happened to the spirit of rugby? Some of you guys need to take a Bex and a lie down (Aussie expression...apologies). Spiro really seems to have gotten to a few of us hasn't he??? We all get a bit spirited at times guys (and gals) but some of the rubbish over the last couple of days has taken things to a new low. Aussies and Kiwis...get over it! Poms and Boks...belt the sh#t out of one another, may the best team win but please put an end to the "our rugby is better than your rugby" crap...It's run it's course!!! If you want to carry on like good sorts get yourself a Youtube site and go for your life...Otherwise go to the room full of mirrors and have a good hard look at yourselves... Yours in RUGBY Matt Jeez,
I’m gone for two days and this post gets nasty on itself…Whatever happened to the spirit of rugby? Some of you guys need to take a Bex and a lie down (Aussie expression…apologies). Spiro really seems to have gotten to a few of us hasn’t he??? We all get a bit spirited at times guys (and gals) but some of the rubbish over the last couple of days has taken things to a new low.

Aussies and Kiwis…get over it!

Poms and Boks…belt the sh#t out of one another, may the best team win but please put an end to the “our rugby is better than your rugby” crap…It’s run it’s course!!!

If you want to carry on like good sorts get yourself a Youtube site and go for your life…Otherwise go to the room full of mirrors and have a good hard look at yourselves…

Yours in RUGBY
Matt

]]> By: The Reiver http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15598 The Reiver Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:37:49 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15598 As I posted below Andrew Logans article " I… ummm… ahhh… actually admire the English." This World Cup has been more about mind-set than actual playing ability. Look at all the games that mattered (final group qualifiers, quarters and semis). Those that were ill prepared "up top" froze on the big occasion. I won't even get at Australia this time because I believe the game against England came down to the final kick and could have gone either way (it certainly had the range). But it has to be agreed that their usual gameplan disappeared into the void. The most amazing thing I've seen in this whole tournament was how the Kiwis coped when it suddenly became apparent that things weren't going well. Watch the last 10 minutes of the France game and then tell me which team regressed rugby backwards. What did the NZ Total Rugby game evolve into when real pressure was exerted on it..........Pick and Drive, Pick and Drive, Pick and Drive.........Copy / Paste x 25 times. So easy for the French to defend against because they see it every league weekend. During this "Total Rugby" period even the French backs and fringe forwards looked amazed (and quite happy) at what was occuring in front of them. The finale of the game became a dire slugfest, a northern hemisphere game of inches. Why? Where was the flair and imagination when it really mattered ? My belief is that the Kiwis suddenly, for the first time 4 years, realised what real pressure was like, the pressure of "absolute" failure, no next game revival, no next year come back. This was it, and they played the fringes for inches...Sweet ! Surely the Total Rugby game so vaunted and talked about here should win out in any arena. Nope, if the team playing it are mentally fragile then throwing the ball about leads to a bucket full of errors whatever the rules that are played to. The open game has to be thrown out of the window when World Cups are at stake..........By all teams !! Some realise this only after it's too late (and then forget about it again 4 years later). The two teams that have coped with the pressure of "absolute" failure best are now in the final. Good luck to 'em both :D As I posted below Andrew Logans article ” I… ummm… ahhh… actually admire the English.”

This World Cup has been more about mind-set than actual playing ability. Look at all the games that mattered (final group qualifiers, quarters and semis). Those that were ill prepared “up top” froze on the big occasion.
I won’t even get at Australia this time because I believe the game against England came down to the final kick and could have gone either way (it certainly had the range). But it has to be agreed that their usual gameplan disappeared into the void.

The most amazing thing I’ve seen in this whole tournament was how the Kiwis coped when it suddenly became apparent that things weren’t going well. Watch the last 10 minutes of the France game and then tell me which team regressed rugby backwards. What did the NZ Total Rugby game evolve into when real pressure was exerted on it……….Pick and Drive, Pick and Drive, Pick and Drive………Copy / Paste x 25 times. So easy for the French to defend against because they see it every league weekend. During this “Total Rugby” period even the French backs and fringe forwards looked amazed (and quite happy) at what was occuring in front of them. The finale of the game became a dire slugfest, a northern hemisphere game of inches. Why? Where was the flair and imagination when it really mattered ?
My belief is that the Kiwis suddenly, for the first time 4 years, realised what real pressure was like, the pressure of “absolute” failure, no next game revival, no next year come back. This was it, and they played the fringes for inches…Sweet !

Surely the Total Rugby game so vaunted and talked about here should win out in any arena. Nope, if the team playing it are mentally fragile then throwing the ball about leads to a bucket full of errors whatever the rules that are played to.
The open game has to be thrown out of the window when World Cups are at stake……….By all teams !!
Some realise this only after it’s too late (and then forget about it again 4 years later).

The two teams that have coped with the pressure of “absolute” failure best are now in the final.
Good luck to ‘em both :D

]]> By: Brad http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15596 Brad Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:27:22 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15596 Back to the article, how crap is Englands game plan vs South Africa? the only difference between the 2 is that SA have mastered the Intercept try. Intercept try great runnung rugby? When SA beat the All Blacks in the lat 3 years they scored an intercept in every game. even this year in Durbn it went down to the wire because butch james got an intrecept. 2 intercepts in the semi final. mmm great running rugby. But SA deserve to be in the final tyhey beat the great Fiji, and Argentina to get there so hats off to them. England are just lucky their forwards were lucky to give them a platform and Jonny was lucky to kick the goals. SA have no such luck they had to score well executed intercept tries against Argentina and the beautiful running maul to beat Fiji. Back to the article, how crap is Englands game plan vs South Africa? the only difference between the 2 is that SA have mastered the Intercept try. Intercept try great runnung rugby? When SA beat the All Blacks in the lat 3 years they scored an intercept in every game. even this year in Durbn it went down to the wire because butch james got an intrecept. 2 intercepts in the semi final. mmm great running rugby. But SA deserve to be in the final tyhey beat the great Fiji, and Argentina to get there so hats off to them. England are just lucky their forwards were lucky to give them a platform and Jonny was lucky to kick the goals. SA have no such luck they had to score well executed intercept tries against Argentina and the beautiful running maul to beat Fiji.

]]> By: Marty http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15532 Marty Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:33:10 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15532 And thank you for proving mine. See a little bit of mutual respect isn't so hard now is it! And thank you for proving mine.

See a little bit of mutual respect isn’t so hard now is it!

]]> By: Mike http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15531 Mike Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:30:13 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15531 Thank you for proving my point. Thank you for proving my point.

]]> By: Marty http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15530 Marty Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:27:49 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15530 It does hurt, but not me! The truth that Australian rugby has yet again failed to live up to inflated expectations does for Aussies though! hence the 100's of posts on here. Under my skin? on the contrary my good man, it has provided great fodder for me and my mates to chat about whilst enjoying a few drinks and staying up to watch our country once again play in the RWC Final with pride (and not bitterness) in our hearts. I'd have a lie in if I were you! It does hurt, but not me! The truth that Australian rugby has yet again failed to live up to inflated expectations does for Aussies though! hence the 100’s of posts on here.

Under my skin? on the contrary my good man, it has provided great fodder for me and my mates to chat about whilst enjoying a few drinks and staying up to watch our country once again play in the RWC Final with pride (and not bitterness) in our hearts.

I’d have a lie in if I were you!

]]> By: Mike http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15527 Mike Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:22:54 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15527 Hey??? Finger pointing? Switch brain on before engaging keyboard! I believe you began whatever it was, but I wouldn't call it finger pointing. I suppose you could say I stooped to your level, I would just say it's fighting fire with fire. It obviously got under your skin though, the truth so often hurts. Hey??? Finger pointing? Switch brain on before engaging keyboard! I believe you began whatever it was, but I wouldn’t call it finger pointing.

I suppose you could say I stooped to your level, I would just say it’s fighting fire with fire. It obviously got under your skin though, the truth so often hurts.

]]> By: Marty http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15525 Marty Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:12:57 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15525 hahaha.... mike it is a pleasure to see, the last bastion of losers.... finger pointing! hahaha Don't be a hater Mike it will consume (whats left of) your soul. I have a new appreciation for the irony that for years Aussies have been calling us whinging poms! hahaha…. mike it is a pleasure to see, the last bastion of losers…. finger pointing! hahaha

Don’t be a hater Mike it will consume (whats left of) your soul.

I have a new appreciation for the irony that for years Aussies have been calling us whinging poms!

]]> By: Temba http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15524 Temba Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:12:30 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15524 Rush defense!!!! RIP Johnny Wilkinson May 25, 1979 - Oct 21 2007 Rush defense!!!!

RIP Johnny Wilkinson

May 25, 1979 - Oct 21 2007

]]> By: Mike http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15522 Mike Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:03:32 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15522 Heh heh... much like you guys have proved yourselves bad winners. I guess neither of us have had much practice at it? GO BOKS! Heh heh… much like you guys have proved yourselves bad winners. I guess neither of us have had much practice at it?

GO BOKS!

]]> By: Marty http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15519 Marty Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:53:43 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15519 South Africa must win for the sake of rugby!? utter utter rubbish I was going to compose a well thought out and researched post in defence of English rugy but then I realised this has already been done superbly by many people above. It then occured to me there really is only one thing that needs to be said which sums up everything............... AUSTRALIANS ARE BAD LOSERS. Suck it up and move on, don't debase yourselves with these snide attitudes towards a team/style that beat you. South Africa must win for the sake of rugby!? utter utter rubbish

I was going to compose a well thought out and researched post in defence of English rugy but then I realised this has already been done superbly by many people above. It then occured to me there really is only one thing that needs to be said which sums up everything……………

AUSTRALIANS ARE BAD LOSERS.

Suck it up and move on, don’t debase yourselves with these snide attitudes towards a team/style that beat you.

]]> By: South Africa » Blog Archive » Favored South Africans Also Favorites http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15496 South Africa » Blog Archive » Favored South Africans Also Favorites Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:51:52 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15496 [...] It seems that much of the world is lining up to support the Springboks, or at least to oppose what many, including yours truly, believe to be a somewhat unsightly form of rugby emanating from England. Naturally South Africa has its share of high-profile South African boosters, including Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki. Perhaps somewhat less expected is the passion the Boks seem to have inspired in Soweto and across parts of the country that have never been traditional rugby strongholds. Even in — gasp! — Australia, legendary rugby writer (and traditionally no fan of things green and gold) Spiro Zavos believes that South Africa must defeat the English side for the sake of rugby! [...] [...] It seems that much of the world is lining up to support the Springboks, or at least to oppose what many, including yours truly, believe to be a somewhat unsightly form of rugby emanating from England. Naturally South Africa has its share of high-profile South African boosters, including Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki. Perhaps somewhat less expected is the passion the Boks seem to have inspired in Soweto and across parts of the country that have never been traditional rugby strongholds. Even in — gasp! — Australia, legendary rugby writer (and traditionally no fan of things green and gold) Spiro Zavos believes that South Africa must defeat the English side for the sake of rugby! [...]

]]> By: skifiend http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15483 skifiend Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:51:56 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15483 Winning is winning! don't be sore. Yes it's good to watch a running game but World cup has plenty of that so what if England aren't the best at that. They are a thinking team and they do their homework. If they win they deserve it because they know how to win. Winning is winning! don’t be sore.
Yes it’s good to watch a running game but World cup has plenty of that so what if England aren’t the best at that. They are a thinking team and they do their homework. If they win they deserve it because they know how to win.

]]> By: Brizzler http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15481 Brizzler Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:20:31 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15481 Spiros, Such bile, such vitriol. Why don't you put your money where your ever-so-superior gob is and agree to shave off the 'tash and remove the "syrup" for good if England do the double. They probably won't but at least you'll be risking something rather than getting an ulcer with your acidy viewpoints. Go on, dare you. Spiros,

Such bile, such vitriol.

Why don’t you put your money where your ever-so-superior gob is and agree to shave off the ‘tash and remove the “syrup” for good if England do the double.

They probably won’t but at least you’ll be risking something rather than getting an ulcer with your acidy viewpoints.

Go on, dare you.

]]> By: Spike http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15474 Spike Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:31:11 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15474 As there is no such thing is god it is rather pointless asking for a Sprinkbok victory. Perhaps this is why NZ and Australia keep choking. Instead of praying learn to play the game and by that I mean all facets of the game. Stop the arrogance and start winning big games i.e. World Cup quaters or semis. No wonder the richest sportsman in NZ carries another blokes sticks around a golf course. Losers. As there is no such thing is god it is rather pointless asking for a Sprinkbok victory. Perhaps this is why NZ and Australia keep choking. Instead of praying learn to play the game and by that I mean all facets of the game. Stop the arrogance and start winning big games i.e. World Cup quaters or semis. No wonder the richest sportsman in NZ carries another blokes sticks around a golf course. Losers.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15467 Andrew Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:49:06 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15467 If Australia fiedled a couple of decent props rather than those pathetic excuses that they did, then they might have won. For years you have thought that rugby union was a 13 man game - but unfortunately rugby league has the flankers missing, not the props. Sour grapes Spiro or what?! If Mortlock's kick had gone over, that would have been robbery - Australia were much more outplayed than 12-10. No rugby brains, just like NZ in their QF (where no one seemed to think of the obvious when camped 30 m from French line - kick a DG) - fot THAT total lack of nous, they desrverd to lose! If Australia fiedled a couple of decent props rather than those pathetic excuses that they did, then they might have won. For years you have thought that rugby union was a 13 man game - but unfortunately rugby league has the flankers missing, not the props.

Sour grapes Spiro or what?! If Mortlock’s kick had gone over, that would have been robbery - Australia were much more outplayed than 12-10. No rugby brains, just like NZ in their QF (where no one seemed to think of the obvious when camped 30 m from French line - kick a DG) - fot THAT total lack of nous, they desrverd to lose!

]]> By: Brace http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15466 Brace Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:44:44 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15466 Living in the USA, where we are trying to promote the sport, and having to read whining dross like this article from the so called experts in the sport, is so pathetic, it is beyond compare. Last time I looked, the game was called Rugby Union it involves 15 players per side and the idea of the game was to win? Especially in a true World Cup Tournament that takes teams like the USA Eagles years to qualify for (and we have done so several times) only to see the sport reduced to a circus by the so called examples for the sport. It’s easy for the All Blacks and Aussies to start playing a certain way and then say “that’s it, if you don’t play our way your regressing the game” but that is self appointing rubbish. Go play Rugby League if you want that kind of game. England is playing to win, thats it. The All Blacks and the Aussies played the wrong game for a tournament and that’s it. So, show some spine, show some leadership and best of all fire these ex players who seem to think that writing in newspapers makes up for them missing out on the professional era of the sport. A total disgrace to the world promotion of the game. Living in the USA, where we are trying to promote the sport, and having to read whining dross like this article from the so called experts in the sport, is so pathetic, it is beyond compare. Last time I looked, the game was called Rugby Union it involves 15 players per side and the idea of the game was to win? Especially in a true World Cup Tournament that takes teams like the USA Eagles years to qualify for (and we have done so several times) only to see the sport reduced to a circus by the so called examples for the sport.

It’s easy for the All Blacks and Aussies to start playing a certain way and then say “that’s it, if you don’t play our way your regressing the game” but that is self appointing rubbish. Go play Rugby League if you want that kind of game.

England is playing to win, thats it. The All Blacks and the Aussies played the wrong game for a tournament and that’s it.

So, show some spine, show some leadership and best of all fire these ex players who seem to think that writing in newspapers makes up for them missing out on the professional era of the sport.

A total disgrace to the world promotion of the game.

]]> By: Mark Young http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15458 Mark Young Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:40:50 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15458 As an Englishman I am amazed that the whole world always wants us to lose at everything?. France still hate us for that whole 100 year war thing years ago??, come on! we're not bitter about Harold getting shot in the eye!, and we stepped in and saved you from 2 wars guys!. The Aussies have a massive problem with everything English, why?, most of you are a few generations from there!! (don't start that "oh we're Irish cos dad once had a Guiness" crap either,leave that to the yanks). And whats this from the Kiwis?? talk about strange bedfellows, Go Boks???. Citing the English press bleating on about the team as the reason to hate the guys on the pitch is ridiculous, they were pouring more scorn on the team than the SA, NZ and Aus press combined last month. The 15 Englishmen on the pitch make me proud, they spent the build up to the WC taking so much crap from the English press then they turn up and get their arses kicked by SA 36-0 take even more then turn everything around ,beat the team that beat the mighty All blacks a week after winning a game they were not supposed to win against the sure fire Aussies. I have constantly read comments about ruining the game of Rugby. In 2003 the English team pulverised the South Africans, then went on to beat the Australians who were at home, a game that went point for point until Jonny Wilkinson kicked his famous drop goal. In the 2003 world cup NZ again bowed out early, even though they were favourites. I don't care if we lose this weekend, I am proud of the guys for again being in the final and I know both NZ and Australia would love to be in their boots sizing up against the Boks. I know a lot of All Black and Australia fans will be going green this weekend, but thats just with envy. As an Englishman I am amazed that the whole world always wants us to lose at everything?. France still hate us for that whole 100 year war thing years ago??, come on! we’re not bitter about Harold getting shot in the eye!, and we stepped in and saved you from 2 wars guys!. The Aussies have a massive problem with everything English, why?, most of you are a few generations from there!! (don’t start that “oh we’re Irish cos dad once had a Guiness” crap either,leave that to the yanks). And whats this from the Kiwis?? talk about strange bedfellows, Go Boks???.
Citing the English press bleating on about the team as the reason to hate the guys on the pitch is ridiculous, they were pouring more scorn on the team than the SA, NZ and Aus press combined last month.
The 15 Englishmen on the pitch make me proud, they spent the build up to the WC taking so much crap from the English press then they turn up and get their arses kicked by SA 36-0 take even more then turn everything around ,beat the team that beat the mighty All blacks a week after winning a game they were not supposed to win against the sure fire Aussies.
I have constantly read comments about ruining the game of Rugby. In 2003 the English team pulverised the South Africans, then went on to beat the Australians who were at home, a game that went point for point until Jonny Wilkinson kicked his famous drop goal. In the 2003 world cup NZ again bowed out early, even though they were favourites.
I don’t care if we lose this weekend, I am proud of the guys for again being in the final and I know both NZ and Australia would love to be in their boots sizing up against the Boks.
I know a lot of All Black and Australia fans will be going green this weekend, but thats just with envy.

]]> By: Boksupporter http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15456 Boksupporter Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:19:43 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15456 hi guys. face it, the english play boring rugby. the best teams in the world should have comtested the semi's [Nz, Aus, Sa and france]. Nz and Aus play better, more attractive rugby when they lose, than what englnd plays when they win. i heard a comment from wilkinson that he would love to 'kick england into the final'. What a shitty loser attitude. let him go play soccer if he wants to kick the whole time. the game of rugby is for spectators too. they want to see tries, not a horse. As a bok supporter i can honestly say that Aus and Nz have led the way in playing attractive rugby. the bokke has made great efforts to also adapt to that style, instead of 10 man rugby. The poms havent even bothered to make an effort. Even if my team wins the finally, i know that we cant automatically call the bokke the best team in the world. that title goes to the all-blacks. statistics proves it! The poms are lucky to be in the final, due to crappy refereeing, face it. hi guys. face it, the english play boring rugby. the best teams in the world should have comtested the semi’s [Nz, Aus, Sa and france]. Nz and Aus play better, more attractive rugby when they lose, than what englnd plays when they win. i heard a comment from wilkinson that he would love to ‘kick england into the final’. What a shitty loser attitude. let him go play soccer if he wants to kick the whole time. the game of rugby is for spectators too. they want to see tries, not a horse. As a bok supporter i can honestly say that Aus and Nz have led the way in playing attractive rugby. the bokke has made great efforts to also adapt to that style, instead of 10 man rugby. The poms havent even bothered to make an effort. Even if my team wins the finally, i know that we cant automatically call the bokke the best team in the world. that title goes to the all-blacks. statistics proves it! The poms are lucky to be in the final, due to crappy refereeing, face it.

]]> By: Mike http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15427 Mike Wed, 17 Oct 2007 23:24:52 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15427 Yeah, I don't really think they pinch them so to speak. I know a lot of these guy's families moved a long time before they thought their sons would be professional rugby players. I was just fantasizing. Would love to see the Pacific Islanders do an annual tour though, even if they didn't always play as a united team. Say do one year touring Aus and NZ, then the next year do Argentina and SA, then the next do a European tour. But it is logistically difficult when they all play club rugby in different parts of the world, and would not have much time to prepare. On a different note, am now looking forward to next year's S14 because I don't have any rugby to get personally excited about anymore. I'd love to see a cracking GF this weekend, and would love to see the poms prove us wrong by actually playing "total rugby" and scoring a few tries from forward play and open back play, but my heart won't be interested, only my head. How hard do you think it's going to be to pick S14 form?? We saw with the ARC that the new laws made predictions impossible, one week to the next there were upsets, and nearly all the games were very close, with see-sawing leads. Often a team looked done for at half time, only to bounce back and win it. Also, there will be a lot of personnel changes coming into it - at least in the Aussie teams. The Force have lost key starting players in Ioane, Pelesasa and Vedelago. The Brumbies have lost Larkham, Gregan and Paul, but gained Holmes. The Reds have gained a few from other teams, the Waratahs have lost Hewat and Turinui (to the Reds), but gained Tahu, and have Beale and a few others hit form and gain experience in the ARC. The SA teams have a few key changes too, particularly the Bulls losing Matfield. Do we know if Monty is playing on after the cup? Not sure about the Kiwi sides??? Yeah, I don’t really think they pinch them so to speak. I know a lot of these guy’s families moved a long time before they thought their sons would be professional rugby players. I was just fantasizing. Would love to see the Pacific Islanders do an annual tour though, even if they didn’t always play as a united team. Say do one year touring Aus and NZ, then the next year do Argentina and SA, then the next do a European tour. But it is logistically difficult when they all play club rugby in different parts of the world, and would not have much time to prepare.

On a different note, am now looking forward to next year’s S14 because I don’t have any rugby to get personally excited about anymore. I’d love to see a cracking GF this weekend, and would love to see the poms prove us wrong by actually playing “total rugby” and scoring a few tries from forward play and open back play, but my heart won’t be interested, only my head.

How hard do you think it’s going to be to pick S14 form?? We saw with the ARC that the new laws made predictions impossible, one week to the next there were upsets, and nearly all the games were very close, with see-sawing leads. Often a team looked done for at half time, only to bounce back and win it.

Also, there will be a lot of personnel changes coming into it - at least in the Aussie teams. The Force have lost key starting players in Ioane, Pelesasa and Vedelago. The Brumbies have lost Larkham, Gregan and Paul, but gained Holmes. The Reds have gained a few from other teams, the Waratahs have lost Hewat and Turinui (to the Reds), but gained Tahu, and have Beale and a few others hit form and gain experience in the ARC. The SA teams have a few key changes too, particularly the Bulls losing Matfield. Do we know if Monty is playing on after the cup? Not sure about the Kiwi sides???

]]> By: Mart http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15425 Mart Wed, 17 Oct 2007 23:07:45 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15425 Mike - agee 100%. David Kirk in one of his columns said the reason that the Fijis and Tongas and Argentinas have done so well this RWC is that their players largely now play in NZ / Aus / Europe and so thus better coaching / tactics / fitness etc. I'm not sure I agree that Aus / NZ nick many (if any) islanders these days but I agree 100% if there were more funds to the so called 2nd tier nations and entry for them into the 'big' tournaments then we would really have a world game. It's up to the IRB now and if they don't do it after the great success of the Pumas at this RWC then they never will.... Mike - agee 100%. David Kirk in one of his columns said the reason that the Fijis and Tongas and Argentinas have done so well this RWC is that their players largely now play in NZ / Aus / Europe and so thus better coaching / tactics / fitness etc. I’m not sure I agree that Aus / NZ nick many (if any) islanders these days but I agree 100% if there were more funds to the so called 2nd tier nations and entry for them into the ‘big’ tournaments then we would really have a world game. It’s up to the IRB now and if they don’t do it after the great success of the Pumas at this RWC then they never will….

]]> By: Mike http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15421 Mike Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:43:02 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15421 Jeeezzz, you're the only one kidding yourself, nothing you say can truly make any of us believe that England aren't winning ugly. And you know it yourselves deep down. I think you forget also, that other than the last three or four weeks, England have been losing and playing crap since the last world cup. You should also realise that it's not just the Aussies that have been putting together the new rules, and there's never been any intent to take away the effect of the scrum. They are intended to reduce all the time wasted through stoppages, and reduce the 50/50 penalty calls. Good for north or south rugby. Anyway, I'm tired of the subject... So I'm trying to get my fix of good, no beautiful, rugby so am just watching the first Bledisloe game in 2000 (the greatest test ever played most say), and even the pommy commentators that pop in when the audio feed breaks down admit it is some of the best rugby ever seen. However, the reason I piped up again (I should be working) a comment they just made was that Toutai Kefu's father and Pita Alatini's father played together in the 74 Tongan team that beat us in Brissy. It just highlights why the Islander's rugby is suffering. They can't pull the sponsors, so all the talent ends up heading somewhere else - NZ, Aus, Europe. Imagine how the islanders teams would have gone at the RWC if all the talent playing elsewhere played in their country of origin?? Rococoko, Howlett, Collins, Tuqiri, George Smith, Palu, Mealamu and so many others.... we saw their combined strength without these guys as the Pacific Islanders team a couple years ago, but it could be even better. I would just love to see them play as the combined team regularly, like the West Indies equivalent in cricket. I wonder if the IRB end up doing anything for them (or Argentina) once the RWC hype dies down, or will they just let it slide and keep their money as usual?? Also, anyone know what Jim Williams is up to? Is he still at Munster? Jeeezzz, you’re the only one kidding yourself, nothing you say can truly make any of us believe that England aren’t winning ugly. And you know it yourselves deep down. I think you forget also, that other than the last three or four weeks, England have been losing and playing crap since the last world cup.

You should also realise that it’s not just the Aussies that have been putting together the new rules, and there’s never been any intent to take away the effect of the scrum. They are intended to reduce all the time wasted through stoppages, and reduce the 50/50 penalty calls. Good for north or south rugby. Anyway, I’m tired of the subject…

So I’m trying to get my fix of good, no beautiful, rugby so am just watching the first Bledisloe game in 2000 (the greatest test ever played most say), and even the pommy commentators that pop in when the audio feed breaks down admit it is some of the best rugby ever seen.

However, the reason I piped up again (I should be working) a comment they just made was that Toutai Kefu’s father and Pita Alatini’s father played together in the 74 Tongan team that beat us in Brissy. It just highlights why the Islander’s rugby is suffering. They can’t pull the sponsors, so all the talent ends up heading somewhere else - NZ, Aus, Europe.

Imagine how the islanders teams would have gone at the RWC if all the talent playing elsewhere played in their country of origin?? Rococoko, Howlett, Collins, Tuqiri, George Smith, Palu, Mealamu and so many others…. we saw their combined strength without these guys as the Pacific Islanders team a couple years ago, but it could be even better. I would just love to see them play as the combined team regularly, like the West Indies equivalent in cricket.

I wonder if the IRB end up doing anything for them (or Argentina) once the RWC hype dies down, or will they just let it slide and keep their money as usual??

Also, anyone know what Jim Williams is up to? Is he still at Munster?

]]> By: The Reiver http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15385 The Reiver Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:36:00 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15385 Mr Zavos, I ended up here after trying to find links to The Stellenbosch Laws. Decided to hang around and read a few more articles before departing for home - England. What can I say on what I have read here, well let me be frank. Just keep doing what you're doing now. 1.Change the rules all you want to suit yourselves down south. Although you forgot to suggest some extra rules to try and gain scrummage parity (maybe that'll be on the agenda next). 2.Continue to kid yurselves that your Super 14 Touch Rugby Championship is how the game should be played, until a South African team wins it using forward power and then try and change the rules again. 3.Continue to believe that the winner of the World Cuo 7th & 8th place playoff (otherwise known as the Bledisloe Cup) is the worlds best team. 4.Spend the next four years (again) telling the rest of us game destroying countries that you are superior and we are not fit to tie your boots. Or are you more upset as to who we actually destroyed than what. Yup, just keep on doing what your doing now. We're all soooooooooo impressed up north (again). Mr Zavos,
I ended up here after trying to find links to The Stellenbosch Laws. Decided to hang around and read a few more articles before departing for home - England.
What can I say on what I have read here, well let me be frank. Just keep doing what you’re doing now.
1.Change the rules all you want to suit yourselves down south.
Although you forgot to suggest some extra rules to try and gain scrummage parity (maybe that’ll be on the agenda next).
2.Continue to kid yurselves that your Super 14 Touch Rugby Championship is how the game should be played, until a South African team wins it using forward power and then try and change the rules again.
3.Continue to believe that the winner of the World Cuo 7th & 8th place playoff (otherwise known as the Bledisloe Cup) is the worlds best team.
4.Spend the next four years (again) telling the rest of us game destroying countries that you are superior and we are not fit to tie your boots. Or are you more upset as to who we actually destroyed than what.

Yup, just keep on doing what your doing now. We’re all soooooooooo impressed up north (again).

]]> By: andrew http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15370 andrew Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:40:58 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15370 Mart,I wrote a few days ago ( email 5 or 6 on this blog) I too am extremely disappointed with Spiro's article .He has been the only rugby writer in the SMH worth reading until now. Growden is dreadful.After the Aust/Japan game he told us that Aust "spat Japan out",he then told us that in the first half Wales were "putrid" against Canada.There was also another insulting comment about a team we ( Aust) were playing but I've forgotten.Meanwhile David Kirk now the Fairfax CEO spent half an article complaining about the referee after the All Blacks /France game.From a former AB captain I thought this was pathetic. What is so annoying is that these people are getting paid for all this! But the award for the comments trifecta in this world cup goes to 'Dingbat No1" John O'Neill - remember he's the guy who complained during the Tri N that "Jake White is obsessed with the RWC" - well guess what happened John.He also inferred that Eddie Jones was a "traitor" for joining the 'Boks coaching staff - what sweet irony if the Boks win the RWC.He also reminded the English that Australians"hate "them - I won't say any more. 'enough already!' Mart,I wrote a few days ago ( email 5 or 6 on this blog) I too am extremely disappointed with Spiro’s article .He has been the only rugby writer in the SMH worth reading until now. Growden is dreadful.After the Aust/Japan game he told us that Aust “spat Japan out”,he then told us that in the first half Wales were “putrid” against Canada.There was also another insulting comment about a team we ( Aust) were playing but I’ve forgotten.Meanwhile David Kirk now the Fairfax CEO spent half an article complaining about the referee after the All Blacks /France game.From a former AB captain I thought this was pathetic. What is so annoying is that these people are getting paid for all this!
But the award for the comments trifecta in this world cup goes to ‘Dingbat No1″ John O’Neill - remember he’s the guy who complained during the Tri N that “Jake White is obsessed with the RWC” - well guess what happened John.He also inferred that Eddie Jones was a “traitor” for joining the ‘Boks coaching staff - what sweet irony if the Boks win the RWC.He also reminded the English that Australians”hate “them - I won’t say any more.
‘enough already!’

]]> By: mart http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15365 mart Wed, 17 Oct 2007 06:38:18 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15365 Gno - any chance of a link to the offending Stephen Jones article you reference ? It would certainly make ugly reading and explain a few things regards Spiro's vitriol. In this RWC period if you link to the UK Sunday Times you'll see Jones is bashing David Kirk mainly this time around ! I've said it before but worth repeating - when he joined the ST Jones was told to be "controversial". He certainly is but I'd still agree with his main claim that the "European" game (old fashioned and forward dominated as it is) certainly helps teams that play it have the ability to tough out or restrict teams with more flair. Like you as an inbetweeny (originally a Pom but now a longterm Aussie) I'd much rather watch, say, a Bledisloe than a 6N but credit where credit's due - unpalatable as it is Jones theory has basically been vindicated (see the posts from Sean Fitzpatrick saying much the same). I agree 100% that Jones comments are inflamatory and boorish (see his writeups after the Aus and NZ QF losses) but his main argument basically has merit, even if it insultingly argued. Personally I've been hugely disappointed with Wayne Smith and Spiro's writing in this RWC. I agree with you that Spiro seems to be reacting to Jones and Wayne seems to be too. I've listed above Spiro's digs against the Poms - fair enough to slate them for poor play and lack of invention (both true) but Spiro's blasts on everything English border on racism in my view. I'd hoped that the Roar (especially) would have been above that kind of tosh but it seems it's main rugby writer is setting a very poor lead IMHO. The good news is there has been some exceptional writing from "regulars" on the forums and not so regulars too (see the exceptional post from Peter Marks on the game England is playing. Shouldn't the likes of Spiro and Wayne be getting paid to write like that rather than air petty vendettas against other journos or 'what I did on my holidays' articles ?). This is what appeals to me in the Roar and why I keep reading. But you have to wonder what value Spiro gives when he starts an article on the SF's of rugby's biggest tourno by stating that his main interest in the games were to see how the Wallabies could lose to the Poms and the AB's could lose to the French (when any fule kno that guts and ticker got both teams over the line in each case). Shame on you Spiro - the world of rugby doesn't need or want your myopia any more than it needs Stephen Jones. Stick to what you are good at (rugby writing) please ! Gno - any chance of a link to the offending Stephen Jones article you reference ? It would certainly make ugly reading and explain a few things regards Spiro’s vitriol. In this RWC period if you link to the UK Sunday Times you’ll see Jones is bashing David Kirk mainly this time around ! I’ve said it before but worth repeating - when he joined the ST Jones was told to be “controversial”. He certainly is but I’d still agree with his main claim that the “European” game (old fashioned and forward dominated as it is) certainly helps teams that play it have the ability to tough out or restrict teams with more flair. Like you as an inbetweeny (originally a Pom but now a longterm Aussie) I’d much rather watch, say, a Bledisloe than a 6N but credit where credit’s due - unpalatable as it is Jones theory has basically been vindicated (see the posts from Sean Fitzpatrick saying much the same). I agree 100% that Jones comments are inflamatory and boorish (see his writeups after the Aus and NZ QF losses) but his main argument basically has merit, even if it insultingly argued. Personally I’ve been hugely disappointed with Wayne Smith and Spiro’s writing in this RWC. I agree with you that Spiro seems to be reacting to Jones and Wayne seems to be too. I’ve listed above Spiro’s digs against the Poms - fair enough to slate them for poor play and lack of invention (both true) but Spiro’s blasts on everything English border on racism in my view. I’d hoped that the Roar (especially) would have been above that kind of tosh but it seems it’s main rugby writer is setting a very poor lead IMHO. The good news is there has been some exceptional writing from “regulars” on the forums and not so regulars too (see the exceptional post from Peter Marks on the game England is playing. Shouldn’t the likes of Spiro and Wayne be getting paid to write like that rather than air petty vendettas against other journos or ‘what I did on my holidays’ articles ?). This is what appeals to me in the Roar and why I keep reading. But you have to wonder what value Spiro gives when he starts an article on the SF’s of rugby’s biggest tourno by stating that his main interest in the games were to see how the Wallabies could lose to the Poms and the AB’s could lose to the French (when any fule kno that guts and ticker got both teams over the line in each case). Shame on you Spiro - the world of rugby doesn’t need or want your myopia any more than it needs Stephen Jones. Stick to what you are good at (rugby writing) please !

]]> By: Marty http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15354 Marty Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:46:52 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15354 Temba You're more than welcome to join the mass English meet up in the city, I'm sure a South African flag is available at most good flag outlets, I think there is actually a specific flag shop somewhere on St Kilda road! 1 question: Where can I buy some lighter fluid and a box of matches? :-) Temba

You’re more than welcome to join the mass English meet up in the city, I’m sure a South African flag is available at most good flag outlets, I think there is actually a specific flag shop somewhere on St Kilda road!

1 question:

Where can I buy some lighter fluid and a box of matches?

:-)

]]> By: Temba http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15346 Temba Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:18:38 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15346 2 questions: Where can I go and watch the game (somewhere with atmosphere in Melbourne)? Where can I buy a South African flag? :) 2 questions:

Where can I go and watch the game (somewhere with atmosphere in Melbourne)?

Where can I buy a South African flag?

:)

]]> By: Gno http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15344 Gno Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:13:46 +0000 http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/10/16/rwc-england-regressing-the-game-cmon-the-boks/#comment-15344 Somewhere above Mike wrote: "it gave me a great chuckle to hear a genuinely good writer [Spiro] have a go at him [Stephen Jones] on his own level. Who cares anyway??" It seems I do. Stephen Jones is a very prejudiced writer who lets his personal taste for scrummaging cause him to denigrate running styles of rugby such as S14 and to insult those who play it and the millions of SH viewers who enjoy it (especially ozpoms like me who suffered through interminable Five Nations matches in the sixties when the ball spent most of the time stuck in a scrum). In 2003 Jones also wrote a disgraceful column attempting to make fun of Spiro's name and implying that someone with that ethnicity had no right to an opinion on rugby, let alone to write about it. From that point I regarded him as complete scum and always felt Spiro held the high moral ground, especially as he analysed the game objectively and fairly. The sad thing about the above article and its twin on SMH is that Spiro has abandoned quality and descended towards Jones's level. You should never get down in the manure to wrestle with a pig in case onlookers can't tell the difference between you. Somewhere above Mike wrote: “it gave me a great chuckle to hear a genuinely good writer [Spiro] have a go at him [Stephen Jones] on his own level. Who cares anyway??” It seems I do. Stephen Jones is a very prejudiced writer who lets his personal taste for scrummaging cause him to denigrate running styles of rugby such as S14 and to insult those who play it and the millions of SH viewers who enjoy it (especially ozpoms like me who suffered through interminable Five Nations matches in the sixties when the ball spent most of the time stuck in a scrum). In 2003 Jones also wrote a disgraceful column attempting to make fun of Spiro’s name and implying that someone with that ethnicity had no right to an opinion on rugby, let alone to write about it. From that point I regarded him as complete scum and always felt Spiro held the high moral ground, especially as he analysed the game objectively and fairly. The sad thing about the above article and its twin on SMH is that Spiro has abandoned quality and descended towards Jones’s level. You should never get down in the manure to wrestle with a pig in case onlookers can’t tell the difference between you.

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