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	<title>Comments on: ARC: Let sleeping dogs lie</title>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: LeftArmSpinner</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-38442</link>
		<dc:creator>LeftArmSpinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The ARC, or any of its future incarnations will fail while everyone continues to call it the third tier.  Third best wont attract a crowd sufficient to make a profit.  In effect, the NRL is the third tier (Kangaroos, State of Origin) but you will never hear it referred to as the third tier.

Use the proven technique of offering opportunities in invest (franchises, tho I hate that American speak), let any one and everyone assemble their case, grounds, squads, finances, etc in reply to a very specific "Tender/Bid" document and see what comes of it.  

For example, Syd Uni will go it alone and their bid will succeed, simply because they are very well run, resourced and structured, and that is from me, a Randwick supporter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ARC, or any of its future incarnations will fail while everyone continues to call it the third tier.  Third best wont attract a crowd sufficient to make a profit.  In effect, the NRL is the third tier (Kangaroos, State of Origin) but you will never hear it referred to as the third tier.</p>
<p>Use the proven technique of offering opportunities in invest (franchises, tho I hate that American speak), let any one and everyone assemble their case, grounds, squads, finances, etc in reply to a very specific &#8220;Tender/Bid&#8221; document and see what comes of it.  </p>
<p>For example, Syd Uni will go it alone and their bid will succeed, simply because they are very well run, resourced and structured, and that is from me, a Randwick supporter.</p>
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		<title>By: Westy</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31842</link>
		<dc:creator>Westy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Price boys eventually ended up  ended up playing league. Rugby is a great social game.The problem is at the youth level real competition at quality level  for many Dundas or Parramatta rugby  boys is sadly only in League.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Price boys eventually ended up  ended up playing league. Rugby is a great social game.The problem is at the youth level real competition at quality level  for many Dundas or Parramatta rugby  boys is sadly only in League.</p>
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		<title>By: Hammer</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31836</link>
		<dc:creator>Hammer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I played league for two years from when I was 15 -16.  I was top try scorer, won the best and fairest and got jack of it.  So did most of the team.  We had a great coach, and a great bunch of guys, we just got sick of league.  Some of us went to AFL, some to soccer, others to surfing, I fell in love with rugby.  I think a lot of the anti rugby brigade use tired old cliches like toffs etc. Clearly they have never played any contact sport, name calling doesn't get you very far.  If they think all union players are leather patch brigades perhaps they'd like to put their money where their mouth is and join a team.  I would recommend a country team, union's pretty big out there and the boys are as hard as nails, or perhaps some subbies down at Dundas valley (are they still going?), where the Price brothers started out (and when I was playing still used to run the water).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I played league for two years from when I was 15 -16.  I was top try scorer, won the best and fairest and got jack of it.  So did most of the team.  We had a great coach, and a great bunch of guys, we just got sick of league.  Some of us went to AFL, some to soccer, others to surfing, I fell in love with rugby.  I think a lot of the anti rugby brigade use tired old cliches like toffs etc. Clearly they have never played any contact sport, name calling doesn&#8217;t get you very far.  If they think all union players are leather patch brigades perhaps they&#8217;d like to put their money where their mouth is and join a team.  I would recommend a country team, union&#8217;s pretty big out there and the boys are as hard as nails, or perhaps some subbies down at Dundas valley (are they still going?), where the Price brothers started out (and when I was playing still used to run the water).</p>
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		<title>By: W  Warambeal</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31645</link>
		<dc:creator>W  Warambeal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31645</guid>
		<description>Al i think most astute businesses take 'aa a grain of salt' the bandied about TV audiences. Here's a copy of an article on the subject:



"Why Cumulative Audiences Don't Add Up

Some months before or after any major international sporting event, the media reports on the latest cumulative audience TV data issued by the international federation of that sport. “Our event / sport is bigger than yours!” they cry, as if comparing bicycles in the playground. And not only that, but it’s an even bigger bicycle than last time! The casual and increasingly cynical fan will raise a quizzical eyebrow at the peculiarities of the sports marketing world where the viewing audience for an event can be depicted (as in the case of the 2002 FIFA World Cup), five times greater than the entire population of the globe, with or without a television. Indeed those of us within the industry who ought to know better have historically not questioned the origins or true value of this data and yet it has been used extensively as a means of measuring appeal and success, and selling TV contracts and sponsorship packages.

In the old days – in other words before interactivity and internet were perceived as the be-all and end-all – analysing coverage in this way suited sponsors of big events who were looking for global exposure generated from board advertising, via television, and who would measure the benefit of this on an advertising rate-card equivalent basis. With growing TV penetration around the world in the last two decades or so, TV audiences for major events generally increased on a year-by-year basis lending strength to the sales process and a semblance of validity to some extraordinary price hikes.

The cumulative audience approach has largely gone unchallenged, but within an industry that is seeking to become more accountable and less generalist, we detect a will for change. Fragmentation of the TV audience and greater sophistication towards its measurement has left major rights holders struggling to prove an increase in popularity and event exposure through traditional means. Some, but not all events now add in news and magazine coverage to TV coverage making like-for- like comparisons impossible. Indeed we would question whether this possibility were ever the case. How valid is it to compare, say, the Olympic Games and track and field events which might be transmitted for many hours at a time, to a live soccer match which is over in ninety minutes? How can “global” data be considered accurate when most developing markets can’t measure their population let alone the number of TV sets and potential audiences?

Indeed, in the new interactive multi-wired world, where brand equity, leverage and positioning are all, few sponsors are buying into global events solely for the media exposure derived from boards at events. Fewer still target a mass populace (the usual audience measurement) instead aiming for a specific sector of that population.
     
  What is the way forward? There is no doubting the importance of reach as an indication of event popularity and success, but other media should to be included. We need an integrated cross platform approach that applies the meaning of “broadcast” in its broadest sense – from TV to web-cast to WAP and equivalent protocols to press and radio. There will be an increasing role for customised research as sponsors endeavour to determine the true reach of their message to a defined audience segment.

The IOC have recently taken strides to address this in the way their own TV audiences are researched and depicted. Conscious that previous data took no account of the length of time people watched a programme, the IOC has developed an approach they describe as Total Viewer Hours. This is determined by taking the duration of the programme and multiplying by the programme audience, and the sum of these hours defines the total number of hours watched by all viewers.

The IOC believe this is a more robust means of providing comparison between events whose broadcasts are of different durations. As Michael Payne of the IOC said recently “It is far more important to understand the true unduplicated audience number – the true global reach – and the average viewing hours per market – the popularity – than some global cumulative audience that actually tells you very little."

But in the future, will size always matter? Will bigger always be best? As we move towards a greater homogenisation between TV set and computer, and computer and telephone, arguably the greatest opportunity for TV rights sellers and sponsors alike will not be in the ability of events to reach a mass global audience but in the ability of those events to address the consumer as an individual. Perhaps the need lies less in the development of global macro research tools but more in effective micro measurement, that determines the power of major events to effect individual behavioural consumer change.


Sally Hancock
Chief Executive
Redmandarin"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al i think most astute businesses take &#8216;aa a grain of salt&#8217; the bandied about TV audiences. Here&#8217;s a copy of an article on the subject:</p>
<p>&#8220;Why Cumulative Audiences Don&#8217;t Add Up</p>
<p>Some months before or after any major international sporting event, the media reports on the latest cumulative audience TV data issued by the international federation of that sport. “Our event / sport is bigger than yours!” they cry, as if comparing bicycles in the playground. And not only that, but it’s an even bigger bicycle than last time! The casual and increasingly cynical fan will raise a quizzical eyebrow at the peculiarities of the sports marketing world where the viewing audience for an event can be depicted (as in the case of the 2002 FIFA World Cup), five times greater than the entire population of the globe, with or without a television. Indeed those of us within the industry who ought to know better have historically not questioned the origins or true value of this data and yet it has been used extensively as a means of measuring appeal and success, and selling TV contracts and sponsorship packages.</p>
<p>In the old days – in other words before interactivity and internet were perceived as the be-all and end-all – analysing coverage in this way suited sponsors of big events who were looking for global exposure generated from board advertising, via television, and who would measure the benefit of this on an advertising rate-card equivalent basis. With growing TV penetration around the world in the last two decades or so, TV audiences for major events generally increased on a year-by-year basis lending strength to the sales process and a semblance of validity to some extraordinary price hikes.</p>
<p>The cumulative audience approach has largely gone unchallenged, but within an industry that is seeking to become more accountable and less generalist, we detect a will for change. Fragmentation of the TV audience and greater sophistication towards its measurement has left major rights holders struggling to prove an increase in popularity and event exposure through traditional means. Some, but not all events now add in news and magazine coverage to TV coverage making like-for- like comparisons impossible. Indeed we would question whether this possibility were ever the case. How valid is it to compare, say, the Olympic Games and track and field events which might be transmitted for many hours at a time, to a live soccer match which is over in ninety minutes? How can “global” data be considered accurate when most developing markets can’t measure their population let alone the number of TV sets and potential audiences?</p>
<p>Indeed, in the new interactive multi-wired world, where brand equity, leverage and positioning are all, few sponsors are buying into global events solely for the media exposure derived from boards at events. Fewer still target a mass populace (the usual audience measurement) instead aiming for a specific sector of that population.</p>
<p>  What is the way forward? There is no doubting the importance of reach as an indication of event popularity and success, but other media should to be included. We need an integrated cross platform approach that applies the meaning of “broadcast” in its broadest sense – from TV to web-cast to WAP and equivalent protocols to press and radio. There will be an increasing role for customised research as sponsors endeavour to determine the true reach of their message to a defined audience segment.</p>
<p>The IOC have recently taken strides to address this in the way their own TV audiences are researched and depicted. Conscious that previous data took no account of the length of time people watched a programme, the IOC has developed an approach they describe as Total Viewer Hours. This is determined by taking the duration of the programme and multiplying by the programme audience, and the sum of these hours defines the total number of hours watched by all viewers.</p>
<p>The IOC believe this is a more robust means of providing comparison between events whose broadcasts are of different durations. As Michael Payne of the IOC said recently “It is far more important to understand the true unduplicated audience number – the true global reach – and the average viewing hours per market – the popularity – than some global cumulative audience that actually tells you very little.&#8221;</p>
<p>But in the future, will size always matter? Will bigger always be best? As we move towards a greater homogenisation between TV set and computer, and computer and telephone, arguably the greatest opportunity for TV rights sellers and sponsors alike will not be in the ability of events to reach a mass global audience but in the ability of those events to address the consumer as an individual. Perhaps the need lies less in the development of global macro research tools but more in effective micro measurement, that determines the power of major events to effect individual behavioural consumer change.</p>
<p>Sally Hancock<br />
Chief Executive<br />
Redmandarin&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: AndyS</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31600</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>W Warambeal,
I'm not sure I'd say the financial sector necessarily receives much attention either other than after the event, but you may be right. I have never really placed much faith in the broadcasting numbers as I couldn't understand how they could tell whether I was watching or not. No doubt it is a game they all play. But I'd also say that there are plenty of people who scrutinise rival codes and would love to catch out their perceived opposition in a lie or dubious behaviour. That is why I put more faith in the number of broadcasters - that must be a discretely countable number, presumably based on specific licencing agreements. I would have said that was a tough one to fake and a risky one for the IRB to lie about, as their credibility would be shot if someone leaked the real number. So we are back to 119 broadcasters thinking that it was worth their while to spend money on showing the RWC.

As a personal anecdote, I watched the 1991 RWC free-to-air in Japan. It may have been a fluke and meaningless, but it suggests to me that even as an amateur game Union was more international in spread and appeal than many (or even most) other sports.

And I was interested in your point on pay TV in the Americas...at $100 bucks a pop in the US, pay TV had a viable business case - must be a pretty health demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>W Warambeal,<br />
I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d say the financial sector necessarily receives much attention either other than after the event, but you may be right. I have never really placed much faith in the broadcasting numbers as I couldn&#8217;t understand how they could tell whether I was watching or not. No doubt it is a game they all play. But I&#8217;d also say that there are plenty of people who scrutinise rival codes and would love to catch out their perceived opposition in a lie or dubious behaviour. That is why I put more faith in the number of broadcasters - that must be a discretely countable number, presumably based on specific licencing agreements. I would have said that was a tough one to fake and a risky one for the IRB to lie about, as their credibility would be shot if someone leaked the real number. So we are back to 119 broadcasters thinking that it was worth their while to spend money on showing the RWC.</p>
<p>As a personal anecdote, I watched the 1991 RWC free-to-air in Japan. It may have been a fluke and meaningless, but it suggests to me that even as an amateur game Union was more international in spread and appeal than many (or even most) other sports.</p>
<p>And I was interested in your point on pay TV in the Americas&#8230;at $100 bucks a pop in the US, pay TV had a viable business case - must be a pretty health demand.</p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31595</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 02:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>With 260 million watching the FIFA world cup final and 33 mill watching the RWC final i think the IRB should be pretty happy with that seeing that soccer has a much, much greater reach and their event has such a massive profile. More than 10% is pretty impressive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With 260 million watching the FIFA world cup final and 33 mill watching the RWC final i think the IRB should be pretty happy with that seeing that soccer has a much, much greater reach and their event has such a massive profile. More than 10% is pretty impressive.</p>
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		<title>By: W  Warambeal</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31588</link>
		<dc:creator>W  Warambeal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 01:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Andy S

Claims made in the sporting press aren't as ruthlessly scrutinized as those made in the financial section. Most sports do this from time to time. Australian Rules (AFL) is notorious for overstating its playing numbers amongst other things.

With regard to the union WC you will find that most of the American countries (both north &#38; south) could only access the tournament live via subscription TV. This cost as more than $100 a pop in the US. 

I have an extract of Initiative's 2003 report somewhere &#38; post an extract in the next couple of days. The viewing audience for the 2003 union WC final was 23 million - but outside the top 5 rated countries (Australia, NZ, South Africa, England &#38; France) just 2 million watched.

So it would seem the increase in the audience for the 2007 final could mainly be attributed to the final being played at a northern hemisphere venue &#38; having England again in the final.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy S</p>
<p>Claims made in the sporting press aren&#8217;t as ruthlessly scrutinized as those made in the financial section. Most sports do this from time to time. Australian Rules (AFL) is notorious for overstating its playing numbers amongst other things.</p>
<p>With regard to the union WC you will find that most of the American countries (both north &amp; south) could only access the tournament live via subscription TV. This cost as more than $100 a pop in the US. </p>
<p>I have an extract of Initiative&#8217;s 2003 report somewhere &amp; post an extract in the next couple of days. The viewing audience for the 2003 union WC final was 23 million - but outside the top 5 rated countries (Australia, NZ, South Africa, England &amp; France) just 2 million watched.</p>
<p>So it would seem the increase in the audience for the 2007 final could mainly be attributed to the final being played at a northern hemisphere venue &amp; having England again in the final.</p>
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		<title>By: AndyS</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31553</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Max,
I wasn't sure what code you were following, but wouldn't care anyway. Personally I followed AFL growing up, although I was aware of the other football codes. But having watched and played a bit of all of them, I made a conscious decision about which was the best game and subsequently follow Union. I still occassionally catch a game of the other codes, but I just can't find them interesting enough to spend my time thinking about them. Frankly, I find it strange that you care enough about Union to be on this particular board, when there are so many that discuss League and any other sport you follow...?

W Warambeal,
To be honest, I am surprised that they've pitched the numbers so low. Almost strange that 119 international broadcasters bothered to show up during the event - guess not a one of them knows their business or market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max,<br />
I wasn&#8217;t sure what code you were following, but wouldn&#8217;t care anyway. Personally I followed AFL growing up, although I was aware of the other football codes. But having watched and played a bit of all of them, I made a conscious decision about which was the best game and subsequently follow Union. I still occassionally catch a game of the other codes, but I just can&#8217;t find them interesting enough to spend my time thinking about them. Frankly, I find it strange that you care enough about Union to be on this particular board, when there are so many that discuss League and any other sport you follow&#8230;?</p>
<p>W Warambeal,<br />
To be honest, I am surprised that they&#8217;ve pitched the numbers so low. Almost strange that 119 international broadcasters bothered to show up during the event - guess not a one of them knows their business or market.</p>
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		<title>By: Midfielder</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31451</link>
		<dc:creator>Midfielder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31451</guid>
		<description>W Warambeal

Thanks mate..........TBH I believed all the union stuff about the billion people third only behind Football WC &#38; Olympics.

Great post ............and as I always say let facts be your friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>W Warambeal</p>
<p>Thanks mate&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.TBH I believed all the union stuff about the billion people third only behind Football WC &amp; Olympics.</p>
<p>Great post &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;and as I always say let facts be your friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Max emery</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31442</link>
		<dc:creator>Max emery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31442</guid>
		<description>Andy, you can do better than that mate, at least use words like "mungo" or "westie". I'm more than well acquainted with your type, which is part of the reason for my dislike of your game and its supporters. You know, the Pimms drinking leather patch brigade who marvel at the chess-like qualities a good game of rugger can bring. *cough*

Your and your ilk's disdain is palpable.

Which will make the death of Union in this country just that little bit sweeter....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, you can do better than that mate, at least use words like &#8220;mungo&#8221; or &#8220;westie&#8221;. I&#8217;m more than well acquainted with your type, which is part of the reason for my dislike of your game and its supporters. You know, the Pimms drinking leather patch brigade who marvel at the chess-like qualities a good game of rugger can bring. *cough*</p>
<p>Your and your ilk&#8217;s disdain is palpable.</p>
<p>Which will make the death of Union in this country just that little bit sweeter&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: W  Warambeal</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31432</link>
		<dc:creator>W  Warambeal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 10:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31432</guid>
		<description>Midfielder

here is the reference to the 33 million for the union WC final:


"...Sometimes event organizers cite the potential worldwide viewership - that is, adding up the total number of households that can tune in. Because of the spread of digital television systems offering hundreds of channels, that total is growing all the time.


Yet only a handful of elite competitions truly attract global audiences. The final match of one of the biggest international sporting events last year, the Rugby World Cup, drew only 33 million viewers globally, according to Initiative.

While that was enough for fourth place, it was less than half the audience for the No. 2 and No. 3 events, the Brazilian Grand Prix and the Champions League final.

By comparison, the final match of the 2006 World Cup in Germany, for instance, drew an average live audience of 260 million; the final of the Euro 2004 soccer tournament attracted 161 million viewers.

For multinational marketers, the question of which sporting events to sponsor has grown in importance, amid concern about the declining effectiveness of traditional advertising. Sponsorship - gaining the right to display a logo in a stadium, for example - can create widespread exposure for a brand hoping to reach new audiences, and spending on this form of marketing is growing faster than outlays on traditional advertising.

Meanwhile, live viewing of sporting events helps advertisers get around the problem of ad-skipping technology like digital video recorders, because viewers cannot fast-forward through commercials.

The actual number of people watching sporting events live is growing slowly, if at all, according to the Initiative numbers, which are compiled from official audience measurement agencies in 54 countries, representing more than 90 percent of worldwide ad spending..."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/04/business/tvsport07.php

Interesting last sentence - it seems to imply internationalism or global competitions might not be as profitable in the future as a lot of people seem to imply. Perhaps these international events  should be the icing on the cake not the cake itself - take note union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Midfielder</p>
<p>here is the reference to the 33 million for the union WC final:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;Sometimes event organizers cite the potential worldwide viewership - that is, adding up the total number of households that can tune in. Because of the spread of digital television systems offering hundreds of channels, that total is growing all the time.</p>
<p>Yet only a handful of elite competitions truly attract global audiences. The final match of one of the biggest international sporting events last year, the Rugby World Cup, drew only 33 million viewers globally, according to Initiative.</p>
<p>While that was enough for fourth place, it was less than half the audience for the No. 2 and No. 3 events, the Brazilian Grand Prix and the Champions League final.</p>
<p>By comparison, the final match of the 2006 World Cup in Germany, for instance, drew an average live audience of 260 million; the final of the Euro 2004 soccer tournament attracted 161 million viewers.</p>
<p>For multinational marketers, the question of which sporting events to sponsor has grown in importance, amid concern about the declining effectiveness of traditional advertising. Sponsorship - gaining the right to display a logo in a stadium, for example - can create widespread exposure for a brand hoping to reach new audiences, and spending on this form of marketing is growing faster than outlays on traditional advertising.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, live viewing of sporting events helps advertisers get around the problem of ad-skipping technology like digital video recorders, because viewers cannot fast-forward through commercials.</p>
<p>The actual number of people watching sporting events live is growing slowly, if at all, according to the Initiative numbers, which are compiled from official audience measurement agencies in 54 countries, representing more than 90 percent of worldwide ad spending&#8230;&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/04/business/tvsport07.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/04/business/tvsport07.php</a></p>
<p>Interesting last sentence - it seems to imply internationalism or global competitions might not be as profitable in the future as a lot of people seem to imply. Perhaps these international events  should be the icing on the cake not the cake itself - take note union.</p>
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		<title>By: AndyS</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31379</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 05:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Strange then that you are posting here...surely you can only know more about rugby and it's supporters that way? I'd call that self-abuse, and I suspect you would too otherwise the phrase of covering it with a nutshell wouldn’t have sprung quite so readily to mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strange then that you are posting here&#8230;surely you can only know more about rugby and it&#8217;s supporters that way? I&#8217;d call that self-abuse, and I suspect you would too otherwise the phrase of covering it with a nutshell wouldn’t have sprung quite so readily to mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Max emery</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31372</link>
		<dc:creator>Max emery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 05:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, I want Union to fail in Australia, that's what death-riding implies.

Blame the Internet.

The less I knew about Rugby Union and it's supporters, the more I liked it. Pretentious wankers seems to cover it in a nutshell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I want Union to fail in Australia, that&#8217;s what death-riding implies.</p>
<p>Blame the Internet.</p>
<p>The less I knew about Rugby Union and it&#8217;s supporters, the more I liked it. Pretentious wankers seems to cover it in a nutshell.</p>
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		<title>By: AC</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31371</link>
		<dc:creator>AC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 05:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31371</guid>
		<description>So Max, I'll just ask:  do you want to see Rugby fail in Australia?  If so, why?  If not, why not?  If you don't care, what are you doing on this thread?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Max, I&#8217;ll just ask:  do you want to see Rugby fail in Australia?  If so, why?  If not, why not?  If you don&#8217;t care, what are you doing on this thread?</p>
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		<title>By: Max emery</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31366</link>
		<dc:creator>Max emery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 05:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31366</guid>
		<description>Westy,

Seriously, the attitudes of people like you are what's killing Rugby Union. You're like Nero playing the fiddle whilst Rome burned. What platform?

The RWC ratings were awful in Australia, the ARC was closed down and even Bledisloe ratings have hit the skids and Super 14 has had a damp squib start.

But international Union is going gangbusters.... lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Westy,</p>
<p>Seriously, the attitudes of people like you are what&#8217;s killing Rugby Union. You&#8217;re like Nero playing the fiddle whilst Rome burned. What platform?</p>
<p>The RWC ratings were awful in Australia, the ARC was closed down and even Bledisloe ratings have hit the skids and Super 14 has had a damp squib start.</p>
<p>But international Union is going gangbusters&#8230;. lol</p>
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		<title>By: Westy</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31360</link>
		<dc:creator>Westy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31360</guid>
		<description>Al.......No dispute .....It is Rugby's international success that is providing a platform for the game in Australia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al&#8230;&#8230;.No dispute &#8230;..It is Rugby&#8217;s international success that is providing a platform for the game in Australia.</p>
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		<title>By: AC</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31358</link>
		<dc:creator>AC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31358</guid>
		<description>Max,

Thanks for that.   Moving right along...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max,</p>
<p>Thanks for that.   Moving right along&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Max emery</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31357</link>
		<dc:creator>Max emery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31357</guid>
		<description>AC,

What ARC?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AC,</p>
<p>What ARC?</p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31353</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31353</guid>
		<description>I know that RU is in deep shit in Australia atm. On another thread i posted that there needs to be a Crawford style report on the running of the game in this country. Australian rugby has all of the problems that soccer faced a few years ago but without soccer's two major strengths: a massive number of junior players (or of any age for that matter), and massive professional international competitions with truly global support. The ARU has wasted two world cup wins, professionalisation, hosting the world cup and the opportunities provided by the Super League war.

That being said I don't believe that the game will die here.

Some more evidence to support my previous post:

Rugby and handball knock football off Euro Viewing perch from:
http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/163942/rugby-and-handball-knock-football-off-euro-viewing-perch
 
Some selected quotes for those who dont want to read the whole thing:
"Out of the big five markets, matches from the rugby union’s World Cup were the most watched events in France and the UK. "

"France’s semi-final against England drew 18.3 million viewers, the biggest sports audience in any of the 17 countries surveyed."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that RU is in deep shit in Australia atm. On another thread i posted that there needs to be a Crawford style report on the running of the game in this country. Australian rugby has all of the problems that soccer faced a few years ago but without soccer&#8217;s two major strengths: a massive number of junior players (or of any age for that matter), and massive professional international competitions with truly global support. The ARU has wasted two world cup wins, professionalisation, hosting the world cup and the opportunities provided by the Super League war.</p>
<p>That being said I don&#8217;t believe that the game will die here.</p>
<p>Some more evidence to support my previous post:</p>
<p>Rugby and handball knock football off Euro Viewing perch from:<br />
<a href="http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/163942/rugby-and-handball-knock-football-off-euro-viewing-perch" rel="nofollow">http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/163942/rugby-and-handball-knock-football-off-euro-viewing-perch</a></p>
<p>Some selected quotes for those who dont want to read the whole thing:<br />
&#8220;Out of the big five markets, matches from the rugby union’s World Cup were the most watched events in France and the UK. &#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;France’s semi-final against England drew 18.3 million viewers, the biggest sports audience in any of the 17 countries surveyed.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: AC</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31351</link>
		<dc:creator>AC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31351</guid>
		<description>Rodney and Max Emery,

Stop trolling..  It's so boring and makes you look pathetic.  Why comment if you dislike the game?  The figures are probably crap, but why would you care?  Make constructive comments or keep to yourself -- the topic is related to the ARC, not the RWC, not League vs. Union, not Catholic vs. Protestant.  It's just sport maties...  chill out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rodney and Max Emery,</p>
<p>Stop trolling..  It&#8217;s so boring and makes you look pathetic.  Why comment if you dislike the game?  The figures are probably crap, but why would you care?  Make constructive comments or keep to yourself &#8212; the topic is related to the ARC, not the RWC, not League vs. Union, not Catholic vs. Protestant.  It&#8217;s just sport maties&#8230;  chill out!</p>
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		<title>By: Max emery</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31345</link>
		<dc:creator>Max emery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31345</guid>
		<description>http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/04/business/tvsport07.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/04/business/tvsport07.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/04/business/tvsport07.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rodney</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31342</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31342</guid>
		<description>Only a union supporter would believe such crap</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only a union supporter would believe such crap</p>
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		<title>By: Rodney</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31340</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>More like 4.2 billion didn't know it was on and the other 2 billion didn't care either way</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More like 4.2 billion didn&#8217;t know it was on and the other 2 billion didn&#8217;t care either way</p>
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		<title>By: Max emery</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31339</link>
		<dc:creator>Max emery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31339</guid>
		<description>Al, please, 90 countries tried to qualify for the RWC?

So what.

Of that 90 how many play in countries where Union isn't an amateur pastime?

5, 6 maybe?

Namibia put 100 past Madagascar in the RWC 2003 qualifiers, their reward, a spot in the RWC finals.

Australia put 31 past American Samoa in the 2002 Soccer World Cup qualifiers, their reward, a home and away series against Soccer powerhouse, Uruguay.

Note the subtle difference. That couldn't happen in Union which is why the term "global sport" is a joke when it comes to Rugby Union.

BTW, we know the state of Rugby League's international game, we're not deluded into thinking it's a global game by marketing gurus masquerading as Administrators.

For example, does anyone here actually think that the RWC had 4 billion+ viewers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al, please, 90 countries tried to qualify for the RWC?</p>
<p>So what.</p>
<p>Of that 90 how many play in countries where Union isn&#8217;t an amateur pastime?</p>
<p>5, 6 maybe?</p>
<p>Namibia put 100 past Madagascar in the RWC 2003 qualifiers, their reward, a spot in the RWC finals.</p>
<p>Australia put 31 past American Samoa in the 2002 Soccer World Cup qualifiers, their reward, a home and away series against Soccer powerhouse, Uruguay.</p>
<p>Note the subtle difference. That couldn&#8217;t happen in Union which is why the term &#8220;global sport&#8221; is a joke when it comes to Rugby Union.</p>
<p>BTW, we know the state of Rugby League&#8217;s international game, we&#8217;re not deluded into thinking it&#8217;s a global game by marketing gurus masquerading as Administrators.</p>
<p>For example, does anyone here actually think that the RWC had 4 billion+ viewers?</p>
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		<title>By: Rdney</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31338</link>
		<dc:creator>Rdney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31338</guid>
		<description>Of course he does, he doesn't follow union and post bullsh!t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course he does, he doesn&#8217;t follow union and post bullsh!t.</p>
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		<title>By: Midfielder</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31336</link>
		<dc:creator>Midfielder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31336</guid>
		<description>W Warambeal

Very interesting do you have a link for your source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>W Warambeal</p>
<p>Very interesting do you have a link for your source.</p>
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		<title>By: Rdney</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31335</link>
		<dc:creator>Rdney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>33 million lol

Global game hahahaha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>33 million lol</p>
<p>Global game hahahaha</p>
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		<title>By: Rdney</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31332</link>
		<dc:creator>Rdney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31332</guid>
		<description>ARC, what is that?

S14 is about to die too, look at the crowds and TV ratings, hell, the Storm crowds look better than a heap of the games played this year.

Hahahahaha, die Nazi supporters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ARC, what is that?</p>
<p>S14 is about to die too, look at the crowds and TV ratings, hell, the Storm crowds look better than a heap of the games played this year.</p>
<p>Hahahahaha, die Nazi supporters.</p>
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		<title>By: W  Warambeal</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31331</link>
		<dc:creator>W  Warambeal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31331</guid>
		<description>The final for the union WC had a TV audience of 33 million. Out side of the finalists (South Africa &#38; England) &#38; the host country France just 3 million watched.

Global game my foot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The final for the union WC had a TV audience of 33 million. Out side of the finalists (South Africa &amp; England) &amp; the host country France just 3 million watched.</p>
<p>Global game my foot.</p>
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		<title>By: Max emery</title>
		<link>http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31329</link>
		<dc:creator>Max emery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/#comment-31329</guid>
		<description>See what I mean?

The rose coloured glasses just never come off do they?

It's not conjecture, it's not guesswork, Rugby Union is in deep poo in Australia. Its financial structure was all but ruined by the heavy drop of the US$, it's ploughed money into the ARC and paying overs for superior athletes from Rugby League. Money it scarcely has and money it may not have 12 months from now.

Oh and Scuub, congratulations on mentioning the one-off match that will surely save the ARU's bacon.... lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See what I mean?</p>
<p>The rose coloured glasses just never come off do they?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not conjecture, it&#8217;s not guesswork, Rugby Union is in deep poo in Australia. Its financial structure was all but ruined by the heavy drop of the US$, it&#8217;s ploughed money into the ARC and paying overs for superior athletes from Rugby League. Money it scarcely has and money it may not have 12 months from now.</p>
<p>Oh and Scuub, congratulations on mentioning the one-off match that will surely save the ARU&#8217;s bacon&#8230;. lol</p>
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