didn’t realize Sydney had a team in the VFL in 1969.

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John Ryan - well we are 25 years along from where you first heard it, has AFL grown in NSW since then? Has it grown in QLD since then? I would say yes, and it continues to grow. The Sydney Swans are not the only team of interest to those who reside in NSW. You may be right in saying Cricket is our national sport, but AFL is our national football code. And when talking about a dismal 19,000 + crowd due to bad weather - in 2007 only 3 NRL teams had a better AVERAGE than that and not by much for two of them.

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How long did it take to find this thread ……… are you wanting MC noble prize for research

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l

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How on earth can AFL be peaking. You obviously love your stats so look at the % gain in attendance figures. The game is still growing at a great clip (10% over last year) and it’s been going 150 years. The A-leagues been going 3 years and the only growth if got this year was from Auckland going out and Wellington comming in, Oh and yeah Becks ofcourse. With the AFL expanding into the Gold Coast and Western Sydney, it will only grow further.

P.S. For those of you who refer to AFL as from ‘the southern states’, grab a map and have a look. You will find that AFL is played in southern, western and northern states as well as being the most prominent sport in southern NSW.

I hope i have enlightened some out there.

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I loved the North Melb power period of the ’90s. Largely, because it was built on their huge success through the ’80s in the Under 19s (under Dennis Pagan, who returned to coach the seniors in the ’90s). Through the 80s we’d followed the development, watched the entire day of GFs on tele from the morning with the Under 19s to spot that young kid called Carey who looked good in his age group.

Alas, the AFL wound up the Under 19s in the early 90s. Replaced by the TAC Cup ‘elite’ under 18s comp. (which in my mind puts kids in contact with their manager before their club - in the business world, that’s probably fine - in the footy world, it makes it mercenary - - like,…., soccer - - and thus, loses a point of distinction).
The Reserves were wound up later on - and now we ‘feed’ out players to ‘feeder’ clubs in the VFL. The Swans and Brissie have their own ‘work arounds’.

At any rate. The whole notion of ‘home grown’ has been eroded to head down the US draft model. Which has many up sides. BUT…..the loss of recruiting ‘zones’ takes away an element such as the 3 great kids who played juniors together at East Keilor, then progress to Essendon 3rds and up to the 1’s…..now, one might end up in Perth, one in Brissie and one at Hawthorn……the other obvious thing being the distribution of brothers. In the past, the Swannies had the Danihers (who they sold to Essendon) and the Morwoods. Now, the example of the Selwood 4 boys being across 3 states. Thankfully, there’s still the (watered down) father-son rule. Theory of course was not every club could or would develop their zones as well as they perhaps should have - so, that was taken out of their hands.

so - ‘home grown’ is diluted into the mix. However, today I hear that Australians should be interested in a Middlesborough vs someone game because Schwarzer and Carney are involved……well, if we should care about that, then, should a Qld person be able to watch north melb and identify Pratt, Hale and Urquhart as local qld products……and care? At any rate, I guess having 2 clubs in the AFL in the state would ensure a little extra press, a bit more exposure and perhaps a bit more recognition of local kids done well……and, importantly, it would probably result in a doubling of locals being rookie listed.

The in-exact science of it all though is that a James Hird was number 79 draft pick. You just don’t know who will defy expectations. Thankfully, there are still ‘PLAYERS’ who defy athletic expectation and excel because, it’s sometimes more about poise and nouse than straight line speed. Some of the best players are being found via the rookie list, that’s a key at least to giving kids a chance to impress in QLD and NSW - they’ve also brought in the scholarship program as well. See how that goes.

—-

anyway, agreed, the Swans have taken 20-25 years. Effectively an entire generation, you need a critical mass of kids to have grown up knowing only of the Swans being there.
The Lions are interesting, in a sense the Fitzroy merger to bring the ‘Lion’ logo and the better jumper, better song, and a sense of history - - it seems to have worked quite well. It may well be that the envisaged outcome is get 17th and 18th clubs up and going, whilst assuming that within 5-10 years, they’ll ‘merge’ (absorb) a couple of Melbourne clubs - and suddenly may yet end up with the Gold Coast Saints (an oxymoron?) and the West Sydney Roos and return then to a 16 team comp.
What I’d wonder though, license fees, it was one thing to charge a huge fee in years gone by to the strongholds of Adelaide and Perth, but, I reckon you wouldn’t be charging numbers 17 and 18.

O-S players in the HAL. Certainly true. And NRL get islanders. AFL clubs are a conservative bunch, but, finally the PNG kids will be & are getting a chance, there’s a couple of fine prospects coming through the QLD system who may yet be draftable in 2 years. I guess, what would be good, and in what time frame? Maybe 5 a year from PNG, Sth Afr and NZ? within 10 years. The US is interesting, there’s a lot, and huge amount of wasted talent in America. US footy is in a growth phase, and in Canada, with about 330 million folk in US and Canada, the AFL would love just to even get a cute little niche of say, 0.01% of the population, y’know, about 30K participation. Doesn’t sound like much when you put it that way!!!

Ah, who knows. Still, as I say, so far the AFL hasn’t really put money anywhere except into Sth Africa - it’s still just cool watching this international development that has been progressing and seemingly gaining momentum. Worldfootynews.com sure is NOT an AFL plant website.
At any rate - for a reality check, all we ever need do is track how Maffra go against the Kiwis. NZ won the 2005 int cup, they’ve played Maffra a couple of times (Maffra, near Sale, voted VCFL team of the year a couple of years back - and a fine example of developing local boys rather than buying success - I guess it’s a big ask, in that http://www.nzafl.co.nz/News/MaffratoplayFalcons/tabid/240/Default.aspx shows how Maffra have clobbered them each time (’05 & ‘06). We’re in reality still talking about standard (of the internationals) of play somewhere around D grade amo’s - and i.e. my local club - - and, given that it’s not soccer, when coming up against a well drilled team like Maffra - the results are obvious.

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A simple question could either Sydney or Brisbane play only locals and be top four material.

The storm would be luckly to find a local player, capable of playing NRL standard

Each A-league team could, in the future sports market the local boy done good will be an important marketing tool in the right hands.

I believe a great part of the success of both the Central Coast Mariners & Newcastle jets, support wise is the high number of local players.

Its is an under the rader thing, but does effect the how the non hardcore view football teams. In local community centres and regions locals doing good assist codes in creating an attachment to a team.

Westy

Your point on quality players is well made, a huge advantage to the A-league is a huge pool of overseas players to fill gaps if no locals meet standard.

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Maybe QLD folk yearn for a SoO clash to put their home grown talent on display before them. Last year there were over 40 listed and rookie QLD boys. Effectively an entire ‘club list’ of QLD boys.
Some, like Jamie Charman, Jason Akermanis, Nick Riewoldt are established stars.
Others, like Brett Voss, Daniel Pratt and Josh Drummond are underrated but highly effective
and certainly on the rise players like Andrew Raines, David Hale, Sam Gilbert.
No lack of quality in just that group - and yet most QLD folk probably haven’t heard of more than a couple of them. I tell you what, in the NRL, I don’t think I’m missing 20 let alone 40 Victorians or even a sum total of Vic, SA and WA players. In Union, what, is it Weary Dunlop and Ewan McKenzie from Victoria?

Basically, the AFL has a better base in QLD than either Rugby code does outside of NSW and QLD.

And the thing about QLD and NSW is, that, it’s actually easier to get established because there are more of these good size regional centres, such as Townsville, Cairns, etc. In Vic, the main large centres are Bendigo, Ballarat and the Latrobe Valley, but even so, they don’t equate to a Townsville. Aust Footy has a Townsville league, granted, only 5 teams, but importantly there’s good junior structures.
There’s small leagues around Mt.Isa, Mackay, Darling Downs, Capricornia, Cairns, Bundy-Wide Bay - so, there’s fair exposure in the regionals - and, a lot of clubs/comps have been going since the 50s. It’s not all overnight.
So - it’ll be interesting to monitor. The AFL has certainly pushed funds in recently, and Auskick is probably the best established, funded and run of such programs. The ability to retain the kids into Under 9s and beyond - - similar task as faces soccer. Reality, just so long as the kids keep up some level of sports.

btw - re. grounds, AFL is played on cricket ovals remember, non overlapping seasons, exclusive access during the footy season.

17th license, I support league expansion to 18 clubs. Alas, the self interest of the existing 16 will probably get in the way. Hopefully an Eddie McGuire can lobby for the good of the game.
A game each week in each of the QLD and NSW markets is key for the AFL as a promise of future expanded ratings/esp for PayTV too. Although, it’s still a case that the AFL value proposition at present is the ability to give Fox access to SA and WA which are ‘under-subscribed’ - - obviously then, if the NRL could afford to try to push into that market, then their value proposition might improve. However, they have a heap of groundwork still to do.

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Stat’s unlimited. The following link has all the major European football leagues and in England most of there divisions.

If you like stats then this is for you

http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/attend.html

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The beach think you talk of, how will this effect a winter played sport.

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We seem to have got off the theme of the article, and have gone into a bit of who’s got the best of to which there is no way of agreeing

Essentially NRL over 190 odd games averages around 15, 800
AFL over 176 odd games averages around 36, 800
S14 over 23 odd games averages around 21, 300
A-L over 84 odd games averages around 14, 600
ARC over 28 odd games averages around 2, 700

What I was saying was what does this all mean and after reading the many posts, my gut feeling is althrough AFL is first at this stage by a long way in regards crowds, and money, it is no way in a position to claim Australia wide as number one because the large population base of NSW & OLD especially the regional centres have rugby league as there main code.

These two are use to working agianst each other and should see each other off. But the interesting figures are for Football and Rugby Union. The S14 is very strong but has very few local games to build the brand with, the ARC was a total distaster and because it was FTA it hurt rugby badly as what was promised about the ARC was never delivered. The A-league has gone from strength to strenght to a point where it is expanding. The Socceroos as becoming if not already the most followered national team.

How this was done was clever rather than take on the NRL & AFL, as Union did, Frank Lowy said you can follow both, have I can still remember his words, have Collingwood as your main team and Victory as your second team, have Parramatta as your first team and Sydney FC as your second. Thus make football your second code. Thus everyone supports the Socceroos.

It will be interesting to see one if an expanded A-League can maintain the quality of Hal 3, and second the growing impact of the Asian Champions League. But with a ten team comp there are 135 games plus finals, plus 12 or 24 Asian Champions League games, plus internationals.

Union has 23 super 14, games plus internationals.

The battle for the number three position will be interesting I can see football establishing itself as the number 3 domestic code over union and the number one international code over cricket. This will mean some touch times ahead for Australian rugby.

AFL I thinked they are near peaking.

My big sleeper is rugby league, as it can be played on football fields does not need as massive crowd, as it is TV drean sport to show, and I can see side in South Australia or Perth especially Perth where rugby has established a beach head for the rugby style of play.

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You may not have heard of them, but FIFA hace what they call GOAL projects.

FIFA spends 10 of millins of dollars each year building infrastructure in poor countries of the world. Including schools housing and FIFA’s goal projects are generally accepted by the United Nations as the fairest, non bias, funds in the world as nothing is expected.

In Africa alone millions spent each year. How it works in simple terms. FIFA will build a fotball field of top class, they will build accommadition for the players and normally attach a school to educate the players. We are talking of the worlds poorest people. They then provide coaches/ teachers, food etc.

Thats were a very large part of the world cup money goes, …………….from the rich to the poor.

Ever read a postive thing about in the Australian media…………funny neither have I.

So examples for you read them especially the last one.

Agian …….MC……….not trying to outbid ……………but FIFA does many things that are huge and when I read the 200K, ..any way have a look mate

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/developing/releases/newsid=684611.html#goal+projects+approved+four+associations+receive+first+project

22 new Goal projects approved - four associations to receive first project(FIFA.com) Tuesday 5 February 2008
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At a meeting chaired by FIFA Executive Committee member Mohamed bin Hammam (Qatar) in Zurich on 4 February 2008, the Goal Bureau announced that since March 2007, a total of 25 Goal projects have been completed and inaugurated as part of FIFA’s development programme.

The Bureau also approved 22 new projects (association headquarters, technical centre and/or football turf pitches) including first projects for Korea Republic, the Netherlands, Norway and Portugal, second projects in 12 countries and third projects in six further countries. In addition, two first projects that had already been selected - Brunei and Japan - received final approval. However, a Goal project in Barbados has been shelved until further notice due to a lack of progress.

Goal, with development offices dotted around the world, is the focal point as well as the driving force behind FIFA’s football development work and it has now successfully established itself as a powerful brand. At the meeting, FIFA President Joseph S. Blatter stressed that during the current Goal phase, FIFA would focus on making sure that the existing projects were carefully maintained and on breathing life into the infrastructure that has already been put in place. In the years to come, FIFA will therefore be paying closer attention to the football structures of its member associations and concentrating on providing the necessary event management know-

Now

Goal Programme Mission and Goals
Mission
FIFA promotes the independence and professionalisation of its member associations through the construction of a “house of football”. The Goal Programme is an expression of solidarity that provides the associations with tailor-made projects, such as the construction of association headquarters, technical centres, natural and artificial turf pitches and football schools. Where possible, projects are carried out in collaboration with the confederations and government authorities. The Goal Plus Programme will use additional tools (e.g. technical advice and courses) to ensure that autonomy constitutes a central pillar of the long-term development strategy implemented by each member association.

Goals

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/developing/goalprogramme/goalprogrammemission.html

To promote the game of football together with its fundamental principles and
social, educational and cultural values around the world;
To seek parity in the standard and infrastructure of football in individual countries;
To establish modern, functional and transparent football administrations;
To promote the sustainable long-term development of the member associations and encourage solidarity between them.

Now for the best link looks better

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/developing/goalprogramme/allprogrammes.html
Goal Programme
Project StatusGoal Programme officesAll Programmes
The Goal development programme consists of 294 projects for 187 associations at a total cost of CHF 200 million. Check below all these programmes.

Afghanistan (2004) Albania (2001)Algeria (2003)American Samoa (2003)Andorra (2003)Angola (2002)Anguilla (2003)Antigua and Barbuda (2000, 2005)Argentina (2002, 2006, 2007)Armenia (2001, 2005)Aruba (2002)Australia (2004)Azerbaijan (2001, 2005)Bahamas (2000, 2004)Bahrain (2001, 2003, 2007)Bangladesh (2002, 2005)Barbados (2003)Belarus (2002, 2007)Belize (2001, 2006, 2007)Benin (2002, 2006)Bermuda (2002)Bhutan (2002, 2005)Bolivia (2001)Bosnia-Herzegovina (2001)Botswana (2001)Brazil (2002, 2006)British Virgin Islands (2004)Brunei Darussalam (2005)Bulgaria (2001)Burkina Faso (2002, 2006)Burundi (2001, 2007)Cambodia (2001, 2004)Cameroon (2002)Canada (2006)Cape Verde Islands (2001, 2004, 2007)Cayman Islands (2002)Central African Republic (2001, 2002, 2005)Chad (2001, 2006)Chile (2002, 2005)China PR (2002)Chinese Taipei (2003)Colombia (2003)Comoros (2005)Congo (2002, 2006)Congo DR (2002, 2005)Cook Islands (2001, 2004)Costa Rica (2001, 2007)Côte d’Ivoire (2002, 2006)Croatia (2001, 2005, 2006)Cuba (2001, 2004)Cyprus (2004)Czech Republic (2004)Denmark (2005)Djibouti (2001, 2006)Dominica (2002, 2005)Dominican Republic (2002, 2005)Ecuador (2001, 2005)Egypt (2002, 2007)El Salvador (2001)Equatorial Guinea (2002, 2005, 2006)Eritrea (2002, 2006)Estonia (2002, 2006)Ethiopia (2001)Faroe Islands (2001)Fiji (2001, 2004)Finland (2003)FYR Macedonia (2002)Gabon (2003)Gambia (2000, 2006)Georgia (2001, 2005)Ghana (2002, 2005)Greece (2002)Grenada (2002)Guam (2002, 2005)Guatemala (2001, 2006)Guinea (2002)Guinea-Bissau (2002)Guyana (2002)Haiti (2001)Honduras (2001, 2006)Hong Kong (2004)Hungary (2004, 2006)Iceland (2002, 2006)India (2002, 2006)Indonesia (2003)Iran (2001, 2004)Iraq (2003)Israel (2003)Jamaica (2003)Jordan (2000, 2004, 2007)Kazakhstan (2001)Kenya (2003)Korea DPR (2001, 2004, 2007)Kyrgyzstan (2001, 2004)Laos (2001, 2005)Latvia (2001, 2006)Lebanon (2002)Lesotho (2001, 2004)Liberia (1999, 2006, 2007)Libya (2005)Liechtenstein (2002)Lithuania (2001, 2005)Luxembourg (2002)Madagascar (2001)Malawi (2001, 2006)Malaysia (2004, 2006)Maldives (2001)Mali (2001, 2005)Malta (2002, 2006)Mauritania (2001, 2004)Mauritius (2002, 2005)Mexico (2005)Moldova (2001, 2005)Mongolia (2001, 2004, 2007)Montenegro (2007)Montserrat (2001, 2006, 2007)Morocco (2002)Mozambique (2001, 2004)Myanmar (2001, 2004)Namibia (2002)Nepal (2001, 2005)Netherlands Antilles (2002)New Caledonia (2005)New Zealand (2003)Nicaragua (2001, 2004)Niger (2002, 2006)Nigeria (2003)Northern Ireland (2003)Oman (2003)Pakistan (2002, 2006)Palestine (2000)Panama (2001, 2006)Papua New Guinea (2001, 2006)Paraguay (2002, 2004)Peru (2001, 2004)Philippines (2001, 2006)Puerto Rico (2005)Qatar (2003, 2007)Romania (2001, 2005)Russia (2001, 2004)Rwanda (2001)Samoa (1999, 2004, 2006, 2007)San Marino (2004, 2006)Sao Tome e Principe (2001, 2006)Senegal (2002, 2005)Serbia (2005, 2006)Seychelles (2002, 2004, 2006, 2007)Sierra Leone (2001)Singapore (2003)Slovakia (2001)Slovenia (2001)Solomon Islands (1999, 2004, 2007)Sri Lanka (2001, 2003)St. Kitts and Nevis (2003)St. Lucia (2003)St. Vincent / Grenadines (2005)Sudan (2001, 2005)Suriname (2001, 2005)Swaziland (2002, 2006)Syria (2002)Tahiti (2003, 2006, 2007)Tajikistan (2002)Tanzania (2001, 2007)Thailand (2003, 2006)Timor-Leste (2006)Togo (2002)Tonga (2002, 2005)Trinidad and Tobago (2001, 2005)Tunisia (2002)Turkmenistan (2001, 2004)Turks and Caicos Islands (2001, 2005)Uganda (2002, 2006)Ukraine (2003, 2006)United Arab Emirates (2003)Uruguay (2000, 2005, 2007)US Virgin Islands (2005)Uzbekistan (2001, 2006)Vanuatu (2001, 2007)Venezuela (2001)Vietnam (2001, 2005)Wales (2003)Yemen (2001, 2006, 2007)Zambia (2001, 2004, 2007)Zimbabwe (2002)

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The comment included the term ‘infrastructure’, so, obviously when referring to new and upgraded stadium - that’s inclusive - although the ‘big cities’ comment was a little narrow,
Obviously a lot of jobs have been created during the construction phase, and the approaching world cup will dwarf the 2003 ICC WC for visitors and economic benefit.
And given the ’soccer community’ already in existence, there’s not really a need to be ‘increasing’ grass roots development programmes.
I was more implying that while there’s a lot of attention on all the new big projects, that what the AFL is doing is also recognised as beneficial but for different and fairly specific reasons.

—
I think Dr Ali Bacher indicated that about 18,500 visitors in 2003 provided about R1Billion benefit, so, the sky is the limit for a hoped 400K visitors in 2010. Just so long as there’s not a Mugabe-esque paradigm shift in leadership beforehand…..

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You are spreading nonsense - Soccer City (aka FNB Stadium) is in Soweto and being redeveloped to hold 94k fans. Orlando Stadium will be a training venue for the world cup and has just been finished and is smack back in the middle of Soweto. Lots of the training venues will be in the townships (Attridgeville stadium is in Mamelodi in Pretoria).

When you say ‘outer provinces’ I presume you mean Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Eastern Cape? All three are getting new or upgraded football stadiums.

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Good comment.

I do certainly regard that AFL is self limited (i.e. having chosen to discontinue state of origin) to a ‘elite’ level being a club competition of 16 clubs within a country of 20odd million.
The ‘elite’ comparisons of soccer start becoming clubs in the EPL or other of the big few leagues that draw players from potentially anywhere in the world. So, really, not a good comparison of like for like, and the HAL is presently too low a comparison,but getting there and would probably hold if the 150 Australians O-S were to suddenly turn up in it next week.
So - to start with - ‘globally’, we’re talking about a far broader ‘human base’ in soccer than AFL (sticking with this comparison).

In effect - that more accutely discriminates against ‘technical’ deficiency as well as ‘athletic’ and/or ‘character’ deficiency - at those ‘high profile’ leagues.

Strategically, player ‘nous’ wise, both AFL and Soccer share much in common. Both are about ‘creating space’, about good players appearing to have ‘time’ and ‘reading the play’ and ‘timing your run’ etc. The main difference being the ‘off-side’ rule.

In essence, these are ’skills of the mind’, ’skills of the body’ include vertical leap, 30m sprint, etc - the sorts of ‘physical measures’ - - the skills of the game element, ’skills of the game’ - perhaps 2 sub groups of this last one.
I guess you compare to the more abstract comparison of US football whereby several ‘positions’ don’t need to touch the ball - there ’skills of the game’ is all about ‘body work’ plus planning, strategy. Ball control, delivery etc doesn’t come into it.
So, via ’skills of the game - strategy’, I see soccer and footy as having relatively similar or equatable demands there.

so - skills of the mind, skills of the body, skills of the game - ball skills, game - strategy.

At any rate, back to my point, I do still think, that at a similar level, there’s more scope - and this may simply be a virtue of 18 on the field compared to 11 - to compensate for a skills of the game deficiency in AFL. Although, is that pro-rata? Perhaps the x-factor players, just how many can you carry - explosive in a particular manner, but clearly deficient in others. Is it 1-10 in soccer, and 2-16 in AFL? Hmmmm, still comes down to team balance and the role of match committee.

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My dose of reason is that in all sports there is a minimum technical standard at the elite level below which a player gets found out and removed. Beyond that, it’s far more about the nous, the vision and the game plan - at both individual player and team levels (I say that due to the examples in all sports of the ‘great team of good players’ working to neutralise the ‘good team of great players’).

Whether we’re talking about your hypothetical big guy or small guy, and pretty much irrespective of what sport is being discussed, it’s not so much about the technical tools but about his/her reading of the play, of the circumstances, and of the opponent’s instincts that will govern success or failure.

To focus in on the Muscat example, his intimidation and ankle-shattering tackling are perhaps tools, and his overall finesse has more to do with the passing and control exerted over the MVFC defence that comes from his instinctive understanding of the game. In cricket you also see plenty of fast bowlers get press for bouncers, beamers or simple speed of bowling when in fact their real success comes (more subtly) from knowing to bowl the right ball at the right time.

And while it doesn’t take away from my bias at a whole-of-sports level, I cannot help but admire that potentially game-changing level of understanding in a player irrespective of what code I’m watching.

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ah yes, but that effectively comes into the common attributes of individuals, that’s aspect of it is common to all sports, the way that you hope to ‘defeat’ your opponent. I didn’t specifically go into ‘body on body’ work, although mentioned lateral movement, but implicitly included ’sideways’, etc, speed off the mark, vertical leap all those little things that might allow you to work to a strength. These are the ’skills’ of the ‘athlete’ within the player. The ‘tangible’ skills of the game are a different matter.
But - correct - you can be technically gifted, but, still have no idea how to get the ball. And, so, you’ll look great on the training track……..and that I’m sure applies to all sports.
Then you enter into the personal attributes of drive, motivation, determination - the ability to handle adversity etc etc - again, those are common ‘athletic’ attributes across all sports.

Te 5ft6 defender is given by the game the tools of kicking the ball, controlling/dribbling, heading the ball, tackling by foot/legs, and a limited amount of ‘body’ work.
In AFL, the short defender is given by the game the tools of kicking the ball, marking the ball, punching/spoiling the ball, handpassing the ball, picking up the ball (on the run in all conditions is in itself an art/skill), tackling, legal shepherding (blocking), ‘knock on’ (distinctly legal and useable as compared to Rugby!), and at varying times (depending on rules of the game committee) a larger range of ‘body’ work.
All the other tools - the ‘athlete’ within the player brings to the park - and the capacity to make up for certain ’skills of the game deficiencies’ may come down to the ability within the game to get by without ‘finesse’. I guess I know enough people who reckon that Kev Muscat never had any ‘finesse’ and was a typical ‘old school’ soccer player - typical of the bad old NSL days etc etc - and they now yearn for a technically better player to come through the system……..which makes it harder I presume for ‘late converts’ and players with a ‘big heart’ to fit into that vision.

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I will be interested in Hopovski responsesto your comment “requires exceptionally high level of foot skills”.

Its shows a total lack of understanding of the skill set required of a football player.

Let me pose you this question and think about how you would coach a skill set.

EG 1

You have a defensive player of say five foot six inches, marking a guy six foot five inches who is attacking. Teach the little guy how to defend their goal.

EG 2

The defensive player is 6 foot 5, and the attacker is 5 foot 6. Teach the defensive to turn as quick as the tall guy.

In each of the above examples think of differnt parts of the field, and what parts are more important than others, and always think of the counter attack, back up support.

Two of thousands of variations that may occur but neither has anything to do with foot skills.

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Simplest terms.
Soccer - requires exceptionally high level of foot skills, i.e. around ball trapping, control retention, and kicking of the ball. Headers play a minor role, realistically, certainly tall forwards especially will need to develop this skill. Then the general attributes of fitness, good lateral movement, spatial awareness, endurance etc. Even tackling is via the legs - which I once heard someone comment “Those soccer players all look so tidy with their socks up.”, and I’m thinking “That’s cos you need them up when you were shin guards, and if they weren’t there’d be about 4 broken legs a game.”
Soccer really only has the goalie as a clearly distinct skill set from the rest of the team. He is certainly a specialist, and, like a wicket keeper in cricket, he occupies effectively his own unique zone/role. Everybody else is interchangeable - in theory. For soccer, I gather the strategic ‘nouse’ of a position is super critical so as to not break down the structural defensive formation.

AFL - requires both foot and hand skills. Foot skills NOT to the same degree as soccer. There are players, such as my teams captain, Adam Simpson, who is a 2 time premiership player, a club captain, approaching 300 games, and, I hate, hate him being the one on the end of a play with the task of delivering by foot. He’s a highly successful footballer whose kicking game is weak. That can’t really happen in top flight soccer. I know in the A-League there are guys who a single sided, and that happens in AFL too - theoretically, they should all be good enough on their wrong foot.

The hand skills are super important, good hands, for marking, general ball control, quick hands for hand balling under pressure and in confined spaces, clean hands in dropping ball to boot to kick etc. Less well adept markers (catchers) often go to the backline and become ’spoilers’, generally enter a marking duel simply trying to punch the ball away.

Because the ball can be picked up off the ground, and there are stoppages with specifc neutral re-starts, (umpire bounce requiring a ruck duel), there are a wider variety of requirements, or areas in which individual strengths can be focussed and weaknesses dampened.

Body tackling, not to the degree of Rugby codes, but, still, adds that extra dimension. However, since the game isn’t as focussed on tackling (as rugby is, where by a team might clock up 300 tackles, in AFL, a team will clock up 300-400 ‘disposal’, and maybe only 50 fair dinkum tackles while i rugby there may only be 30 kicks for the game), so there are players who may be able to base their game around being strong tacklers, laying 10 tackles a game, to perhaps balance out other areas of their game.

Generally, all the other attributes of fitness, endurance (every game is over 2 hrs, 80 mins actual time, and comparing to the 06 FIFA WC, for an extra time game of 2 hrs, the actual play time generally equated to around 75 mins - so, think of playing extra time EVERY game), spatial awareness, lateral movement etc etc.
Also, given the ‘free interchange’, there’s a greater capacity to cover varying fitness levels, that ‘burst’ players can be ’subbed’ into the game for 5 mins here, 10 mins there, a whole quarter if wanted. So, again, you can provide for a wider variety of player types.

Basically - very few AFL players are the ‘complete package’. In a sense, it’s almost impossible to be the complete package. And that, therein is the key - generally, there’s always something, someway, that you can try to beat or nullify your opponent. One of those skills or attributes. Especially on such a large oval, if nothing else, you try to run your opponent around, i.e. ‘Plugger’ Lockett, almost unbeatable in his position, a defenders best hope was to run off him and launch counter attacks and damage the opposition that way.

Also, note, that, in AFL, if you draw the free kick, you must take it (unless so injured as to be unable to), so, whilst teams have preferred specialist forward(target)s that you’d like to be kicking most your goals - anyone at anytime be taking a shot, not just the designated penalty shooter - - - for the life of me, I can’t understand why ‘golden boot’, for example in V2 HAL, saw Kevin Muscat right up with the leaders, he was the penalty taker. That should be a sub-category. [note, this I think is an important difference, for soccer people to understand, in AFL so much more is about how you got the ball, the mark you took, the effort to create space and present yourself - then, you should finish the job off - in soccer, the finishing is the major question mark, opportunities get created and you just hope someone can slot one in, and that get's all the attention].
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Although, my main gripe these days is that overly free interchange has allowed the game to get too fast, in the old days, with just 2 on the bench, traditionally there were on-field ‘rotations’, such that the 2 rovers would rotate out of the forward pocket, the ruckmen might rotate out of the other forward pocket - that required 2 distinctly different specialist back pocket players. Ruck rovers would rotate off a half forward flank. Now, they rotate off the bench, with 4 on the bench - which is fine for covering for injuries etc, but, a little too ‘freely’ used, IMO.

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Surely a conversion to a game perceived to have ‘less skills’ involved would be easier? I don’t know if you would necessarily say that Aussie Rules requires a wider range of skills than soccer either…

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At this stage, most of the soccer money is being spent in the big cities and on infrastructure - it’s not doing anything for the township folk and the ‘outer’ provinces. However, certainly, money goes a long way, I gather the AFL even has about a $400K budget which buys a lot of ‘development’ officers at ground level over there. And that’s where the AFL is working a niche. And that’s all that AFL needs, a nice little niche - similar to what is developing in Europe and America. Maybe in 20 or 50 years there’ll be a fair dinkum Australia vs the Rest of the World footy game. Using the parentage rules of various World Cup events, that could be done now, but that wouldn’t mean anything.

Again though, the AFL doesn’t h