By AAP
February 19th 2008 @ 1:22am
NSWRL ready for western battle against AFL
NSW Rugby League general manager Geoff Carr says league won’t give up western Sydney without a fight following the AFL’s ambitious plans to swoop with a new team.
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The AFL plans to introduce a second Sydney team by 2012, the newcomers to be based out of Blacktown and play their games at Olympic Park’s ANZ Stadium.
Western Sydney is considered league heartland, but armed with a war-chest full of cash the AFL is determined to immerse itself in one of Australia’s largest growth areas, as too are rugby union and soccer’s A-League.
“The Western Sydney region is one of the rugby league’s strongest areas and we intend to keep it that way,” Carr said.
“We have four senior professional NRL sides, over a thousand junior teams and the largest junior league in the world in the Penrith Panthers all catering to the region.”
Carr said the NSWRL was ready for the battle on the western front, confident with the growing numbers in both junior and senior rugby league.
League experienced a 15.3 per cent increase in playing numbers from 2000 to 2007 in western Sydney, with a total of 20,176 players from 1,298 teams involved in junior rugby league competitions.
In 2007 the NSWRL introduced the Western Sydney Development Unit which has helped spawn two teams in the NSWRL Harold Matthews under-16 competition.
The South West Sydney Academy of Sport team last weekend joined the Western Sydney Academy of Sport in the premier junior competition.
“Rather than talk about what may or may not happen in the future, our focus is on what we are delivering now which maintains a commitment that rugby league has had in place for a century,” Carr said.
“We have grown with these areas and we will continue to do just that.
“There is always going to be competition and through our junior programs and our volunteer network we will be more than happy to meet those challenges.
“Our biggest focus though remains ensuring that we provide ongoing opportunities to families by providing a safe and well organised sporting environment.”
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The Boar said | February 19th 2008 @ 10:14am | Report comment
“…through our junior programs and our volunteer network we will be more than happy to meet those challenges.”
Haven’t heard such an inspiring rally call since the British generals implored our volunteer soldiers to go “over the top” for King and country.
No doubt at it, selling more chooks and raffle tickets will do the trick to put down these AFL huns; eh what.
Michael C said | February 19th 2008 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
Ideally, everything that will be done has already been set in motion…………not at all because of any possible move into town by the AFL…….but because of the possible move into town of the FFA. The NRL has stuff all to worry about from the AFL in Sydney.
No….really…..
It’s not so much about the Sydney market as the Australian market absorbing an AFL team there. Sydney just needs to send at least 20K supporters along to look respectable on tele. The sponsorship that such a team would draw is aimed at a different demographic in many respects to that that follows the NRL. And, after all, these new and expanding suburban corridors are not so reflective of 30 years ago. People come form everywhere now to the couple of half way affordable ‘growth corridors’. It’s no longer just natural expansion of a contained population base.
westy said | February 19th 2008 @ 10:22pm | Report comment
Michael C ..they have something to worry about but as you imply its not knife in the throat stuff. I have always admired the administration of the AFL. I find it surprising about this 2012 push . you and I know it will not be in 2012. Its out there , good publicity and now stated as timed for the 2011 expiry of the current broadcast deal to force the price above 1 billion dollars. This is not said in any malicious sense but the AFL hierarchy is all over the place on this. It is rushed, uncoordinated and very unusual to play their hand to or “intimidate” their Broadcasters to pay for expansion and then back track the next day. They have created real 2012 expectation here in the West. I am not sure it was necessary, as momentum was building with the Swans games at Telstra and every thing was on track for 2015. THe development plans for Blacktown training facilities were over 12 months old. Publicity yes but the level of expectation is real These are not cast iron AFL fans and have changed several codes.Really without the hidden agendas or biases we all have the AFL have not handled the Kangaroos saga or this with their usual aplomb. It is so non AFL. Gallop and the NRL’s understated response is normally how the AFL would respond. I ask this Question without malice but in search of an answer ” how badly burnt in the eyes of the AFL community was Demetriou with his failure to get the Kangaroos to go to the Gold Coast?”
Michael C said | February 20th 2008 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Hard to say exactly on the ‘burned’ issue. Certainly, coming out after the Roos had apparenlty called their bluff - the AFL then put back the time frame on a Gold Coast club by a year (but, fair enough if you need to build from sratch rather than relocate - - so, it depends on the perspective someone wants to take).
THere’s recognition that the AFL didn’t go half measures in trying to entice or facilitate a North move north. However - the ground issue - again, depends how you look at it. Is it team first and then ground or ground first and then team - either way, it became a convenient get out clause for North MElbourne. That was predictable at the time. A lot of people reckon North are brave to stay, but support them in doing it.
The AFL needs to act whilst there’s a freindly Ron Clarke as Mayor - I gather the new lady Premier is a little cooler than was Beattie.
The whole issue is strange given that the AFL clubs signed off on the ‘Next Generation’ plan, I think, late 2007. The time frame of 2012-2015 or so for achieving a game every week in each of NSW and QLD markets is clearly stated. The interpretation on the behalf of the Presidents who signed it off might be a little average.
Any President doing his job knows the AFL is spending into those markets, it building infrastructure, is targetting those markets. And, if no one is willing to move a club now then how else do the PResidents expect the timeline to be achieved. It’s actually bad form on the PResidents behalf to comment too soon. That said, Mike Fitzpatrick I think is the bulldozer man. He seems to have very openly ‘leaked’ on a couple of occasions - he seems determined to get done what must be done - - and Andrew Demetriou, he’s generally been a little more measured, since his days in charge of the AFLPA, and his measured handling of the Fed Govt etc with the drugs debate…..so, if Demetriou seems at times a little flustered, it’s probably coming from the top. The passing of Ron Evans I think left a pretty big whole at Commission level. He seemed a man of wisdom.
At any rate, listening to radio talk back, most people seem fine about the Gold Coast, and a little reserved about West Sydney - - perhaps more that West Sydney just IS NOT SEXY!!!
Westy said | February 20th 2008 @ 10:23pm | Report comment
TO Michael C Thanks for response and information.
John Ryan said | February 21st 2008 @ 12:37am | Report comment
Jeeze I got to hand to you blokes,the AFL is talking about TV, pray tell what do non swans game rate in NSW and QLD even Swans games don,t rate well.
The Bears have had one bad year and there crowds have gone down,the Swans playblockbuster games televised live in NSW and it ran 10th,RL flogged it.
Let get real no ground in the gold coast and then you cant fill it pent up demand yeah right,Clarke should get the boot at the next election and the Premier of QLD is a gold coast girl and No 1ticket holder at the Titans.
Kelly in Blacktown should be easy to remove along with a few other councillors and things might change for the AFL there as well.
The AFL has been in Sydney for over 20yrs and what has happened, not a lot, I lived in Sydney when the Swans were launched, RL had the super Leagure war,and yet it still is the top sport in QLD, NSW and outrates AFL in those States,I think one game of AFL only rated 30,000 on FTA non Swans and Brisbane is not much better
Want to go to pay, NEWS ltd(who I dislike almost as much as I dislike AFL) shafted the NRL by shifting them to Fox 3 from Fox1to give the AFL an easy ride,and Rugby League still kicked AFLs arse in the pay TV rateings.
So as I said before dont count your chickens before they hatch,Rugby union tried to kill Rugby League it did not it may go the way of the dodo itself,Football is a summer game.
Now crowds the swans draw 30,000 odd while they are winning last time I looked the SCG held 40,000 odd,I know they are adding more seats but that may be for the Cricket,how they got 72000 in there I don,t know if the Swans start to lose on a regular basis how many will turn out to watch 10000 5000.
The AFL have been riding for a fall for a while I wonder if this will be it
The so called Gold Coast AFL side will have to play a certain amt of games out of the Gabba I think the agreement runs till 2015 whos gonna pay for the ground,from what I can gather the QLD Govt don,t seem interested,that may be a problem,you will have a Gold Coast team that plays in Brisbane may as well call them Bears Mk2
Michael C said | February 21st 2008 @ 9:40am | Report comment
John Ryan -
there’s a lot of glass half full and glass half empty arguments around this topic.
Success by one measure and failure by another.
ON a crowds attendance measure, for what the NRL is, tries to be and should be, it’s a relative failure - or is it?
TV ratings in NSW, the AFL is a bit of a failure.
However, markets operate only so much on what is and was, and very much on the speculation of the future.
At any rate, the AFL has built a solid foundation, a base of very successful auskick programs, or very good penetration into schools. A pretty good foundation spread of clubs and leagues. There’s a foundation for a new generation of NSW youth more attuned to Aust Footy with less of the childish bias of their parents and grand parents.
The AFL is obliged to either stop dead in the water in those states, or, must continue - otherwise, all this work done is for nothing. And, the reality is that the greatest chance of success IS actually new start up teams that give a sense of ‘ownership’ to the local communities. And certainly - the longer they leave it, the greater the anti-AFL factions of NRL have a chance of rallying themselves to build some barricades.
There is the smell of fear. And again, I say, NRL is wasting their time worrying too much about footy. 1 game a week in NSW and QLD is nothing compared to the loss of juniors to soccer across the state, the toe to toe fight that NRL has in it’s heartland markets, and regional markets - - and we all know that the Soccer folk lament such a short 21 round season - it should be at least 30. It’s not long before there’ll be a far greater overlap of the codes and demand for venues. They lament the lack of teams, it should be at least 12 - and NSW is the ‘home of soccer’ at present. The NRL had better start doing some good work soon.
Anyway - yes, the AFL don’t have a clear road before them. There are hurdles yet to be overcome. Is that a reason to NOT do it? Or, because John Ryan says so?
westy said | February 22nd 2008 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
The strongest junior code in Western Sydney since 1960s when figures were first taken is football or as it was then called soccer. Football in Western Sydney has not only dominated but overwhelmed the other codes in the juniors for more than 50 years.This is not opinion but fact. Western Sydney has been the stronghold of football in this country. Marconi licensed club and ground within a kilometre of Sydney United licensed club and ground within 2 kilometres of White Eagles licensed club and ground..League made some comeback in the U/14 onwards but football juniors still dominated right through to U/18 and onwards. League has always had to live with this fact.Rugby in the more middle class areas of Sydney have had their juniors severely affected by the new Anglo soccer mums. Here and in North west Sydney AFL has had better success but generally attracts smaller Anglo players looking for less body contact not necessarily a good thing for the Afl. A few of which may make competent rovers. However the success of Football in cracking and getting the numbers in the private school market in Sydney which on class grounds refuse to play league is the long term key. They have beaten the AFL to the punch here and may have the future Australian Asian /Indian decision makers heavily influenced by football.You see League has never had the numbers in Western Sydney. In fact League got players from football. Its football the AFL has to confront outside Victoria to get superiority .You must understand the A league has is no longer an ethnic backwater. Its management in the non AFL states have adopted a simple stategy link up with an NRL club and share a retangular grond. Gold Coast Titans/ Galaxy at Skilled stadium;Towsville Thunder/ Cowboys at Dairy Farmers at Townsville; and as a protective stroke of genious Melbourne Victory/ Storm at the new Olympic Stadium, even the Central Coast mariners / Newcastle / Newcastle Jets have a relationship.. Bluntly the AFL is the one who must beat football especially in junior market in Western Sydney. What the AFL will compete with with League and football is for the elite athletes in their ranks in Western Sydney not the ones whose mum’s get them to play AFL mistakenly thinking Afl is a soft game. Michael I watch U/14 games in Melbourne and then in north west Sydney. Dear Me the difference is significant.. I take your point that the AFL has been more successful in QLD in attracting better quality athletes.This is the true battleground.in Western Sydney. The selective targeting of elite athletes. For numbers AFL has to beat Football in Western Sydney not league and definitely not Rugby. League has had to live with football for a long time . If the Soceroos become the dominant international flagbearer of Australian football codes then Australian Rugby loses the one thing that saves it again and again.It may be safer to be a premier domestic sport.
Michael C said | February 25th 2008 @ 10:11am | Report comment
Westy -
exactly right - everybody is in battle against the previously sleeping giant that was soccer.
The battle is amongst the AFL and NRL for relevance in 30 years time.
That’s the only real element of AFL vs NRL. But - it’s not a fight against each other directly, it’s a positioning war vs or beside soccer.
ANd that’s where a comment from a friend of mine up around Newcastle - been involved in footy there for many years no - I’ll insert a quote from him:
“For what it is worth, having played and coached in NSW for a while my observations are:
• Junior numbers in Australian Rules have increased markedly in the last 5 years, and the standard has improved accordingly.
• The Talented Player Program is attracting some of the best athletes in the state and the kids can see a defined pathway to the AFL, therefore we are recruiting players who would not otherwise consider AFL.
• Rugby League are very concerned about the success of the AFL AUSKICK programs in the schools, especially in the Sydeny Western Suburbs.
• We have one of the Newcastle Knights start-up players coaching for our local club and although he still enjoys RL and maintains lots of contacts (has some interesting things to say about Willie Mason), he enjoys the professionalism of the local AFL junior system and his kids love the game.
• Soccer is the biggest threat though. It is getting more media attention and there is no media agenda against soccer like there is against AFL in NSW/QLD and against RL in other states. Soccer is the ultimate mummies game and is attracting huge numbers junior and over 35’s levels.
• Soccer players generally transition to AFL better than RL players due to better overall fitness, vision, foot skills and they play the ball before they play the man. We have trouble getting the RL guys to focus on the ball and put their body on the line, they often prefer to hang back, wait for the opposition to pick up the ball and then spear in with a tackle. However if we get the kids early enough (and some play both AFL and RL) we can beat that out of them.”
I like that last bit,
at any rate,
so long as kids get choice, play what they most enjoy or are best suited to - so long as parents don’t keep using their kids to fight their own battles, etc etc.
But -
Socceroos already are replacing the wallabies as the major National Team.
the A-League is some way off yet being the major domestic football code - - however, it is the major domestic SUMMER football code. And for now, it is the strength of the NRL holding it out, because they share the most common markets and facilities.
btw - MVFC used ex AFL people, the HAL has ex AFL No.2 in Ben Buckley - MVFC recognise that many of their members are AFL members too.
THe FFA has come in off -season and is being given a golden ride. It’s smart, it’s strategic, but, it’s hardly long term, eventually the ‘elite domestic comp’ and all other domestic comp should be parallel - - but, then, they have international calenders to slot into as well.
midfielder said | February 25th 2008 @ 10:57am | Report comment
MC
Cough , sorry, cough…………………………AFL & NRL are in fear of football. So NRL should turn its attention away from AFL and direct its attention to fighting football.
Errrrrrrrrrrrrr sure there is no divide and conquer thing going on hear.
As sure as night follows day there is the old AFL line telling leaguies go and fight football.
You can fool some of the people some of the time, but ERRRRRRRRRRRR prehaps the time has come when the AFL PR machine and spin merchants will be called to task …………………NRL go and fight football (for the AFL so while the NRL looking one way we can come in the other way).
As a final note MC what are you so scared of football for anyway, we have the least money, the least press, no one in any media broadcasting position who’s football is their first game.
Mac said | June 4th 2008 @ 4:57pm | Report comment
Since when did we start calling Soccer ‘Football’?
It is but one form of football, not THE football as the term suggests.
Yes they kick more than any other football but dont they also use their heads (headers) and hands (goal keepers).