By Andrew Logan
March 4th 2008 @ 2:20am
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Phibbs? Afeaki? Playford? Never heard of ‘em.
If there is one thing that has characterised Australian rugby in recent times, it is a reluctance to take a punt on young players.
At the same time, Wallabies with questionable form have regularly been allowed to work their way through slumps.
And the message was clearly given to young players that it might actually be harder to get out of the side than it would be to get in to. The disease was not limited to the national team. The provincial sides, too, retained players who simply didn’t measure up week after week and the practice was excused by the general agreement in all camps that there wasn’t the depth in Australian rugby to do otherwise.
On Saturday, for one night at least, this “lack of depth” argument has been exposed as a sham. Perhaps, rather than a lack of depth, one might argue a “lack of courage” on the part of selectors, and a simple “lack of opportunity” from the players point of view.
During the Brumbies versus Reds game in Canberra there were at least 3 rookies and second stringers who stepped up to the mark with such force that they won decisive one-on-one victories over players who have been in the Super 14 and Wallaby line-ups for years.
The most forceful personality on show for the Brumbies was Patrick Phibbs, an abrasive and aggressive halfback who has spent the past three years gathering splinters for 65 minutes under George Gregan and looked set to be doing the same as the understudy to Josh Holmes.
Phibbs signalled his intentions in the first minute of the game with a crushing tackle on a Reds player out in the centres. For those who thought it may have been a flash in the pan, he continued to dish out the punishment all game long, at one point driving Leroy Houston back over his own line to force a 5 metre scrum and also smashing Digby Ioane over the sideline with a rattling hit reminiscent of the great Hillbilly Jim in the now defunct WWF.
It would be easy to write Phibbs off as being just a defensive halfback, but in between the physical hammerings, he also passed accurately and cajoled his forwards into a comprehensive victory upfront.
Spectators watching on TV could have been excused for wondering why Phibbs was for so long a forgotten man when he is capable of such a dominant performance.
If the “forgotten” Phibbs was dominant around the scrumbase, then it was a complete nobody who got the best of the centre battle over 20 Test Wallaby Morgan Turinui.
Sanulio Afeaki, Leo to his mates, cruised out onto the Canberra Stadium turf like he owned the place, and proceeded to show the Brumbies that while they might be missing the best outside centre in world rugby in Stirling Mortlock, they still have a sharp runner and bone-crushing defender in Afeaki.
Afeaki warmed up by making several strong tackles and clean outs, then ran an excellent line onto a wayward ball and stormed 40 odd metres before being pulled down just a few metres out.
Not content with that effort, he later rushed up out of the line, with the Reds on attack, and smashed Reds captain and Wallaby number 8 John Roe in a legitimate tackle, which caused Roe to spill the ball and swung the momentum back to the ACT. Former Wallaby centre Morgan Turinui was obviously watching, because a little while later, he took the ball from a Reds backline move, saw Afeaki coming his way and propped to avoid the looming hit, throwing a forward pass in the process.
Still later, with the Reds threatening, Afeaki grassed Chris Latham in a smothering tackle near the touchline to douse a Reds attack. This is no mean feat from a rookie, with Latham probably being the hardest Australian player to put to ground outside of Stirling Mortlock.
The shine on Latham’s brave effort for the Reds was unfortunately further dulled by a scintillating try from another Brumbies “nobody” - Peter Playford. Those acquainted with the Sydney competition will remember Playford as a Sydney University winger who spent 2006 with the Tasman Makos in the New Zealand NPC, scoring 6 tries in 8 games.
In the previous season, Playford scored a Sydney record 29 tries in a season with University. So he knows his way to the tryline.
Certainly against the Reds, Playford once again showed his nose for the chalk, running some outstanding lines before a big step took him over for the second last try of the game. In the process, he produced an epic palm to the tireless Latham, who pulled him down but didn’t secure him. Playford was straight to his feet and over for the try.
This was on top of his first half effort, where he avoided the defence to put Gerrard over with a brilliant floating inside ball. Although, when he threw the pass, he had Roe beaten in cover and could have scored himself. All this from a reserve who only made the field as a replacement after Julian Huxley was injured.
Admittedly, the Reds lacked application and attitude. They were poor in many facets of the game, and of course the New Zealand sides will test this young Brumbies outfit. But the willingness of the young men to run and tackle with exuberance, enthusiasm and aggression when given their opportunity was a heartening sight for Australian rugby fans.
Perhaps also there is a lesson here for all of us on building depth. If someone isn’t performing, then rather than be allowed to work their way through a slump, they should be dropped, and a young player given a go.
Anyone down at the Brumbies will tell you that this isn’t such a bad strategy.
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Spiro Zavos said | March 4th 2008 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Andrew’s point is well-made. For years now it has been easier to get into the All Blacks than into the Wallabies. Yet the All Blacks have been consistently defeating the Wallabies over this time. Last year we had a classic example of this with Brendan Leonard winning a halfback spot in the NZ RWC squad in his first season of Super 14 rugby, and the Wallabies staying with a former great player whose best days were beyond him and a journeyman halfback who keeps getting injured. As James Stannard has shown with the Western Force when he replaced Matt Henjak and Patrick Phibbs, from the Randwick club and now with the ACT Brumbies, and Josh Holmes with the Brumbies, that there are a lot of talented players out there waiting for their chance.
Peter Playford was a big, bustling try-scoring winger for Joeys. I think he beat the record for tries scored in GPS fixtures. He is rather like Peter Jorgeson, a winger who scores lots of tries, but faster than the older former Joeys star. Playford has never really been wanted by the Waratahs, despite scoring hatfuls of tries in first grade rugby for Sydney University.
Another new Brumbies player who has impressed is Tyrone Smith, the younger brother of George Smith. I was talking to a rugby lover who is a mover and a shaker in the game after the Brumbies-Highlanders match and was surprised with his enthusiasm for Smith’s play. He literally raved about his line-breaking ability, his step and his effectiveness as an attacker and defender.
Smith had six seasons I think with the London RL Harlequins. He may be one of the few league players who makes the transition to rugby union with great success.
Reg said | March 4th 2008 @ 9:54am | Report comment
fair call. Lets see if the Reds can take a punt on the likes of Charlie Fetoai, Ben Daley, Danya Edwards, Poutasi Luafutu, and the man (boy) I think is another Jason Little waiting to happen - Blair Connor.
Pablo said | March 4th 2008 @ 10:15am | Report comment
It seems to me that the message coming through here is the folly of the Unions in virtually ignoring club rugby. That is where these guys are cutting their teeth. The headline says it all “Phibbs? Afeaki? Playford? Never heard of ‘em”, however those Rugby tragics amongst us who haul our butts around Coogee Oval, Millner Field, Rat Park etc, the contrary is the case; these guys (and others) are familiar names.
ROB said | March 4th 2008 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Andrew’s comments are valid. It takes courage to buck the ” selection network”. A player may get noticed at school level or later and his career is promoted. Coaches/selectors stake their reputations on some of these players. Money is spent on the players through academies etc. Not many coaches/selectors have the courage to admit that their selections or promotion of certain players who turn out to be lemons were wrong. Ii would make them look poor at the same time as wasting money on a dud.
spiro zavos said | March 4th 2008 @ 11:49am | Report comment
One of the points made by Alan Jones during his bid to become the 2008 Wallaby coach is that there are a number of young players who should be considered potential Wallabies, if they’re given the chance. He specifically mentioned Ben Alexander, the Brumbies prop who scored the bonus-point fourth try against the Reds. Jones was never great shakes as a coach, in my opinion, but he was a very good selector.
Good selecting is about 80 per cent of good coaching in my view. Most of the senior coaches in Australia are poor selectors. Jones clearly identified talent that is only now coming through, ironically due to injuries to older players who have been preferred when in many cases they’ve not delivered on the field.
Andrew Logan said | March 4th 2008 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
A couple of notes on my column above:
1. When I originally wrote this, the line in paragraph 4 read “Last Saturday night, for one night at least, this “lack of depth” argument was exposed as a sham.”…but an overzealous editor got the better of me! I felt that the “for one night at least” rider was important since Australian rugby clearly has depth issues and some rookies having one good night over a poor opposition doesn’t change that. However, my point was that perhaps we sometimes use this excuse too freely instead of giving some young players a chance to impress.
2. Re Pablo’s comment - I agree, and being from Sydney I was certainly aware of the quality of these players. However, to hear the mainstream media talk before the Brumbies/Reds game, you would have thought that Leo Afeaki had been plucked from third grade somewhere, when in fact he has played excellent club and ARC rugby recently as well as being in the Brumbies Academy so he is hardly a hack. I have been a fan of Patrick Phibbs since I saw him play a storming game for Randwick against Sydney Uni at Coogee last year, and yet he rarely if ever gets a mention in the halfback stakes. I have previously been shouted down on this forum for having the temerity to suggest that the club system could produce players capable of performing at Super 14 level, but in this one game at least there were 4 or 5 who stood out.
Personally I think some of the mainstream media get lazy and just start pushing certain players because it everyone is talking about them and as well as being a safe option, you don’t have to do too much work. “Josh Holmes is the flavour of the month? OK, lets run with that…” and before you know it, Holmes is the heir apparent on the strength of a couple of good games for the Waratahs late last season, and a hat-trick in a 71-10 Aus A drubbing of Japan.
We would do well to continue to look below the surface of Australian rugby for potential stars - rather than just accept the Wallabies 40 man train on squad as the be all and end all.
To wrap up, and to beat a couple of people to the inevitable punch, I will freely agree that the ARC provided these types of players with an avenue and an opportunity to impress.
Cheers…
mudskipper said | March 4th 2008 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
Hear hear… Talent is not rare; opportunity is…
We never saw a great deal of Phibbs because George Gregan was seldom injured or suspended… when you have the Australian Wallaby halfback in your team as Coach you play him, that’s who your supporters have come to see, they’re their champions. Gregan and Larkham were local boys that became world rugby stars… Brumbies supporters were very proud of that fact.
Phibbs always played well in the Sydney comp for Galloping Greens… now he can gallop along with the wild horses…
El Capitan said | March 4th 2008 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Not sure if any of you have heard, but I just got an email off the press about Huxley.
From: xxxx xxxx[mailto:xxxx.xxx@rugby.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 4 March 2008 7:48 AM
To: xxxx; xxxxx; xxxxx;xxxxx
Subject: Huxley
Hot off the press….
Huxley has a brain tumour and is requiring immediate surgery to remove it.
This is the reason for his fit following the rather incidental tackle against the reds on Saturday.
More then likely he will never play again…
Not good news at all.
xxxxx xxxxx| Education Co-ordinator - EdRugby | Australian Rugby Union ARU Headquarters, Ground Floor, 29-57 Christie St, St Leonards NSW 2065
El Capitan said | March 4th 2008 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
News just in about Huxley.
From: xxxx xxxx[mailto:xxxx.xxxxx@rugby.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 4 March 2008 7:48 AM
To: xxxx xxxx; xxxx xxxxxx; xxxx xxxx; xxxx xxxx
Subject: Huxley
Hot off the press….
Huxley has a brain tumour and is requiring immediate surgery to remove it.
This is the reason for his fit following the rather incidental tackle against the reds on Saturday.
More then likely he will never play again…
Not good news at all.
El Capitan said | March 4th 2008 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
sorry about the double up.
I didn’t see the first post up and reposted it again
mudskipper said | March 4th 2008 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
Terrible news… Our thoughts go out with Julian Huxley and his family… We wish him a good recovery and all hope the outcome is positive…
cosmos forever said | March 4th 2008 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
Pablo - you say ‘the folly of the unions not looking at club rugby’. I think you mean ‘the folly of SOME of the unions…’ Obviously the Brumbies looked!
Seeing untapped talent, building a strong academy and positive team culture and providing opportunties is what has made the Brumbies THE most successful Australian province of the S12, S14 era.
Throwing the ball around is what made them one of the most adored - let’s hope the spirit of Roff et al lives on all season!
Pablo said | March 4th 2008 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
Cosmos forever,
Point taken. Yes, the strength of the Brumbies, in no small way and quite ironically, was due to them attracting clubbies or discarded ‘Tahs or ‘Reds, eg. Bill Young, Rod Moore, Travis Hall, Owen Finegan, Scott Fava, Stirling Mortlock, Dave Pusey, Brett Robinson and a host of others that don’t immediately spring to mind.
cosmos forever said | March 4th 2008 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
And agree Andrew - Phibbs was outstanding. I think the real test will be if the injured wallabies and others get to come straight back in. I’d love to be involved in the conversation about whether Rathbone should immediately replace the young blokes. That will be the test of courage of selection…
Westy said | March 4th 2008 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
Spiro…. Tyrone played with Wests tigers and then was contracted to London Harlequins. He always had a good step and pace. Stamina was good with good ability to get ball away in contests. Remember George Smith was a Sydney junior from I think Narrabeen High . Excellent effort by Waratahs to to let him go. If you think the boys from Randwick or Eastwood get overlooked than spare a thought for Two Blues, EMU or Southern District players of Quality. There are a few. It is reasonable to say the Brumbies have had a better eye for unheralded talent. However before we get carried away Queensland were embarrassing. They basically need at least 10 new players in their squad and have absolutely no depth. Their defence was pathetic. Lets see if the Brumbies can produce this style against quality . So far they have not. ANDREW… This article is too early. You could have an Australian Franchise that could be a basket case if QLD do not improve and finish down the bottom again. A lack of Depth is the major problem. A successful Brumbies bring little crowd support and their Australian Fox T. V. ratings are appalling. Another poor showing by Qld Rugby will take its toll. The salary cap breaches by Western Force had a greater impact on Queensland and the lack of professional ethos in Queensland rugby has made it worse.How are they going to attract that many players. I hope for everyone’s sake Qld rugby turns it around this season.
onside said | March 4th 2008 @ 3:54pm | Report comment
.
It would be interesting to read John O’Neills blue print for rugby in Australia.O’Neill has a blueprint for Australian
Rugby, (not to be confused with rugby in Australia) selling the Wallaby brand into Asia ,Japan and even Dubai,
‘growing the brand’ as he calls it like the Wallabies are on some sort of ‘Bourkes Backyard’ .John O’Neill will attemp
to fill the financial coffers of the ARU by playing test matches away from Australia and reaping the rewards of
television fees , and then happily be judged on that. Its his main interest.He is less interested in rugby heartland
the factory floor of the game.John O’Neill has form.He would rather spend a lot of money attracting a league player
who could make the transition ,than invest in rugby in Australia.There is a complete disconnect between the elite
professional level of rugby in Australia and everything from senior clubs down.John O’Neill is interested in image
and brand.Thats all well and good, but I predict the heartfelt frustrations expressed ad nauseum on this site by
rugby people in the bush and little comps all over Australia, volunteers and coaches alike screaming for help in
utte frustration ,will still be there by the next RWC.Nothing will change..The Wallaby brand will be promoted
wherever it can turn a dollar. Think Fosters.The biggest selling Ausralian beer brand overseas that sponsors
Formula One motor racing.Try finding Fosters on tap in most Australian pubs.Yet thats the image promoted
overseas.Likewise the image that will be promoted of Australian rugby. Try finding a rugby club that relates to
and benifits from that story anywhere in Australia. Phibbs , Afeaki and Playford.?Oh we’ll hear of their ilk allright,
when they eventually play League, because unlike all other major rugby nations, there is nowhere else in this
country for them to ply their trade.The ARC ?,shoosh, dont mention that around here..
Greg Russell said | March 4th 2008 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
1. Much as one doesn’t like to admit this, an Australian derby - especially one against the late-lamented Qld - does not enable us to get a handle on the quality of new players. Let’s see them play this well against a New Zealand side before we decide that a whole lot of new talent has been unearthed.
2. I’m not saying the Wallaby selectors shouldn’t be criticized, but the fault does not lie with them for not bringing new players into the S14 sides - that is the fault of the S14 coaches! If guys like Phibbs, Afeaki, Playford and Tyrone Smith are really so good, shouldn’t we be asking why Laurie Fisher has been sitting on them for so long? (certainly Phibbs and Playford have been with the Brumbies for a while).
3. From where did these gusy come? One of Andrew’s old articles (http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/) has sprung back to life today, and there someone makes the comment:
“I’m not going to enter into discussion about the ARC, suffice to say there were a number of young players who smashed the Reds on Saturday night who came to light in that comp… I doubt they would have had the same exposure just in club rugby.”
QED.
sheek said | March 4th 2008 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
Andrew,
I like your original argument as it was…..”for lack of courage”. Also, very hard to know how good players are when warehoused in academies, & only playing other same age teams.
Back in 1975, a pint-sized flyhalf named Ken Wright, all 19 years & a2 months of him, & some half a dozen first grade games with Randwick behind him, was chosen to play for the Wallabies against England.
Apart from offending Queensland, whose then favourite son Paul McLean was axed for Wright, he was no bolter. An Australian schoolboy in 1973-74, Wright had played first grade with & against experienced, talented older players, & held his own. The selectors knew he had the talent. The only qiestion was whether he had the mental toughness to step up. He did!
Stories like Kenny Wright’s used to be commonplace in Australian Rugby. Compare him with Kurtley Beale, who’s been groomed for Wallaby honours since about 15. Now the regular NSW flyhalf, plenty of people are still unsure if he’s ready to make the next step. How did it come to this?
Professionalism is partly to blame. ‘Brand names’ like Gregan & Larkham will apparently pull people through the turnstiles, & motivate them to turn on their pay-TVs, even though they are no longer at the top of their game. Beckham anyone???
This is not what I think, but what I believe is how the spin doctors think. And this thinking permeates all levels of professional rugby. Well, in Australia anyway.
There’s a good story about how Ian Healy had a meteoric rise to the Australian wicket-keeping position in 1988. Late in the 1987-88 season, regular Queensland keeper Peter Anderson was injured. Healy replaced him for the last 4 first-class games of the season, including the Sheffield Shield final.
Although Queensland lost the final to WA, the national selectors were deeply impressed with how quickly Healy stepped up to the pressure of the final, which is often played in the atmosphere of a test.
Healy showed the selectors he had ability; the selectors detected mental toughness along with that ability & gave him his chance; Healy accepted his opportunuity & repaid the selectors with 119 awesome tests for Australia.
Alas, often it’s not the players, or lack of players. It’s the stupid selectors. And in Australian rugby right now, astute selectors, at national & provincial level, seem to be thin on the ground.
cosmos forever said | March 4th 2008 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
I agree Sheek - in fact when I read Andrew’s words about linking any of these players to the Wallabies I thought “No - don’t sentence them to a few tests and then training after training in camp after camp…”
Hopefully the selectors will ignore these blokes in place of established names and they’ll come back even better next season after having PLAYED during the winter!
Bulldog said | March 4th 2008 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
Westy - I cannot believe that from the above conversation that you can even contemplate laying more dirt on the Western Force…. It seems like a constant theme from Eastern State rugby journo’s etc.. Surely the Western Force are also at the leading edge of introducing new talent to the game via two fronts, firstly giving guys like James Stannard, Nick Cummins, Pek Cowan, Sam Wykes etc a go through a well planned rotational policy from Jon Mitchell; and secondly by spreading the established Oz talent so that these younger guys do get a go in all the variuos Oz Super 14 teams. No longer can the Waratahs store all this talent away for a rainy day…
To still be blaming the REDS utterly disgraceful performance on the weekend on the Western Force is just ridiculous. On paper they have an ominous look with Wallabies and Aust A players all through the squad. It seems execution, skills, attitude and fitness may be their true achilles heel.
The other advantage of spreading the talent is also providing some of the established stars with an opportunity to be leaders and better all round players. I defy anyone to tell me that Matt Giteau is not a better player since joining the Force. Where in the past he has not taken on the leadership and responsibility to steer a team around due to playing in the shadow of Gregan and Larkham, he has bloomed in the West with this added notch to his bow. Forget Kurtley Beale and Berrick Barnes for the time being and give them the time to mature. Giteau will be the new Wallabies NO 10 and they will be better for it. Ditto for George Smith at the Brumbies.
sheek said | March 4th 2008 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
Cosmos forever,
Ironically, back in the amateur days of rugby, we used to admire players & teams with a “professional” attitude. That is, approach & commitment to playing, training, etc.
Now I say, in these days of professional rugby, we should select players from an “amateur” viewpoint. Forget how much you paid for such & such player, or how long he’s contracted for, & for fear of offending his feelings, or whether as coach, you might lose your lucrative contract.
If the high-profile, highly paid star is out of form, & there’s a young gun you bought for peanuts showing better form, pick him!
This might do everyone a favour, not least the game itself.
Glenn Condell said | March 4th 2008 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
‘Forget Kurtley Beale and Berrick Barnes for the time being and give them the time to mature. Giteau will be the new Wallabies NO 10 and they will be better for it.’
Well said. I’d like to be a fly on the wall inside Robbie Deans’s head right now. Surely he has virtually written Beale off for this year and after the weekend must be seriously considering giving Barnes another season to step up - he was terrible on the weekend and I cannot forget his big fade v England at the Cup either.
The comparison with Giteau is apt - he is having a real go at the Force and we need that hunger even more than we need the skills. Gits is the best option we have at 10 so he should play there. Of course this makes 12 a bit of a worry.
Re Phibbs and co - I like Phibbs and he was superb on Sat, but who did he play? Let’s see him v Auckland or Canterbury. As for Playford, I can remember reading about him scoring 4 tries in a GPS match once years ago, with the scribe singling him out for higher honours. All some of them need is a chance.
Al said | March 4th 2008 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
Another example of letting a player play into form was Matt Henjak at the Force over Chris O’Young. I believe that by Henjoke continuing to be picked while in poor form only added to his arrogance, poor behaviour and, eventually, the Sare incident.
I think the Wallabies selectors should use the AB’s approach and pick Giteau at 10 and then pick one of Beale or Barnes at no12 as for want of a better word ‘apprentices’. At least for the June tests give them a go and then for Tri-Nations pick one of the older/wiser heads such as Mortlock et al. if their defence is suspect.
Fingers crossed that Tahu starts to hit his straps soon…
ROB said | March 4th 2008 @ 6:28pm | Report comment
Off on a tangent. Lote, Rogers,Sailor and lately Tahu are great athletes. However, are we seeing that union backs handle the conversion to league but not the reverse? I wonder if from a backs perspective you need to have had a good grounding in rugby or maybe it is your first ” rugby sport ” so that you are not influenced by a league background ? If you have played league and union you know how easy it is to defend in league. The opposition almost runs at you. Rugby seems to have more space and more decision making both in attack and defence. I think Tahu is a great footballer but he might have to go to club rugby for a couple of years . Otherwise why is he being ” hidden ” on the wing?
AndyS said | March 4th 2008 @ 6:31pm | Report comment
Al,
why try players out in the June tests - surely that would merely justify the position that they are only “friendlies”?
Why is it that all focus seems to be on the Wallabies? Everyone else uses Sevens and A teams for development, but we almost seem to ignore them entirely. Especially the A team…they run out against the Pacific teams and the JABs/Maori team, and you are lucky if it gets a run on ABC2. Surely that is the development arena for these young guys, especially if their defense is a little suspect. Let them prove themselves there, then we can see what they’ve actually got. In fact, if it is a development vehicle, expand its scope - have the A team play midweek matches in June and take them to Europe in November to play second tier teams. I’d love to see Aus A v Georgia!
cosmos forever said | March 4th 2008 @ 7:24pm | Report comment
And why play Barnes and Beale in the centres when T Smith et al showed in Canberra that there is depth in set positions (as per the start of this thread by Andrew).
The practice of making room for people ‘hoping they will hit their straps’ when there are young guys putting their hands up is one of the most disabling aspects of the national set-up.
Who cares if Tahu hits his straps - several players did last week!
(the above comments are made with due recognition of the fact that QLD were bad, ACT not good and that they haven’t played against a Kiwi team yet…
)
Westy said | March 4th 2008 @ 9:43pm | Report comment
Bulldog……I am not blaming Western Force for Queensland’s demise that is primarily due to the poor administration of rugby in Queensland . However the flagrant breach of the salary cap was critical in the recruitment of two Reds players. Somewhere along the line the little extra was the key for some players. All force to the Force . I have no problem except to point out the state of play in QLD.
Westy said | March 4th 2008 @ 10:01pm | Report comment
Rob…… I love both League and rugby. The sad thing is that Australian Rugby perhaps a little arrogantly goes for huge League wingers or power centres as a ready made fit?Australian Rugby has never gone for a league livewires like Robinson for England or a league playmaker like Johns or Lockyer in their prime. The latter two are some of the best “rugby ” players who never played I have ever seen.Johns played in the style of a Carlos spencer and I think could have been better. Lockyer just had everything a flyhalf or fullback needed. You are right Rugby needs to be careful in its recruitment its just it wants one style of player.
Chris Beck said | March 5th 2008 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
Everyone is pursuing this along the path of “there are guys who are capable of playing at the Super 14 level but have yet to get the chance.” Fair enough, that’s a valid line of discussion.
From a slightly different angle, how come the Brumbies seem to be able to either find or develop these guys and when they’re thrown into the fray, they are able (apparently) to play inspiring rugby right off the bat?
In other words, why just the Brumbies? Where are the other Australian Super 14 teams?
Elsewhere (on another rugby site) Spiro wrote about how the Brumbies “reverted to type” after Huxley was injured against the Reds. I think it is extremely important for a team to have an identity - to know what style of play they’re suited for, to be good at that, and to want to play in that style. I’ve always thought the Brumbies had this (thank you Stephen Larkham) but I’ve not been too sure about the other Australian Super 14 teams of the last few years.
cosmos forever said | March 5th 2008 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
Agree Chris - I think the identity of the oz franchises has been set more by the qualities (or lack of) of the coach rather than the talent and confidence of the players.
Brumbies (finally) reverted to type but they too had been awful in the weeks before and last year. Thank god that Brumby culture finally shone through again - maybe Fisher has learnt to let them have their head a bit.
ADH said | March 5th 2008 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
Onside,
Your comments regarding John O’Neill would hold some weight if the ARC was financially viable. Unfortunately, the ARC was not just bleeding, but haemorrhaging money. What most people, particularly those struggling in club rugby, tend to forget is that the ARU is a business. If a part of your business is losing inordinate amounts of money, then you’re not going to continue with it. As Andrew Logan pointed out in a previous article, the ARC was untenable. No business, no matter what you do, could justify continuing with a project with losses of that magnitude.
AndyS said | March 5th 2008 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
Really? I would have said that just about everyone routinely outlays on improved materials or services - access to a river doesn’t mean you do without running water or sewerage.
I think the bulk of the issue most folk have with the death of the ARC is that they didn’t even look to see how “losses of the magnitude” could be reduced, they just decided to do without altogether. How for instance did the Spirit and Viking break even? Surely there had to be something there that could have been applied to the other teams? And I’d say Onside’s comments are still valid - I’d very much like to hear from JO’N about what his plan is for creating a semi-professional or professional stepping stone competition between club and S14 or, if he doesn’t think we need one, what makes us different from every other professional rugby nations?
mudskipper said | March 5th 2008 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
The Canberra Vikings are a well established Rugby Club with about 4 Clubs sites around the city…They run good committee clubs and support many local sports codes other than rugby at all levels. They also invest wisely for growth…The ARC Vikings could have spent more and still have broken even…
Before the ARC, in past years the Vikings had been flying to Brisbane to be in a larger local comp this was because the Sydney Rugby comp would not allow them in…go figure. When they were in the local Sydney comp they over achieved…so Sydney Rugby cut them out…
Westy said | March 5th 2008 @ 11:35pm | Report comment
Andrew…..do you really think that the Brumbies will make the semi finals. I watched this game for a second time. This must go down as one of the most inept performances by a Queensland team I have ever seen. In the context of the opposition ithe result means very little. The Blues or Crusaders could have won by another 50 points.The QLD pack was just an embarrassment . Do not do this as it is just misleading. I genuinely hope Queensland turn around their game. There continued failure will severely weaken the state and support of the game. The Brumbies attract little crowd corporate support or pay tv audience but do develop local or discarded players well. It is also well run locally. Know one wants to talk about the elephant in the room…….the REDS. Another year of failure will be telling no matter how many repeat tests we play in Hong Kong.
cosmos forever said | March 6th 2008 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
But that’s exactly the point Westy - the Brumbies weren’t playing for a semi final position - they were playing a team on it’s merits for the win that night and in such a way that matched their values and culture (and John O’Neil’s much vaunted but little practices BRAND).
Judging a team in week three on whether they will make the semi’s or not is exactly what gets you into the position that the Waratahs and Reds are in.
I’m not saying the Brumbies aren’t focussed in this as well, but in this case I think the injury toll is so huge that the team forgot about their long term strategic plans and just went out and played a game if footy in fine spirit. If they do that every week you never know what might happen.
I hate the ‘one game at a time’ cliche but maybe instead of just saying it more teams should do it. ‘Doing whatever it takes to get to the finals’ certainly isn’t giving the fans what they want.
I agree though - the Reds were shocking but you still have to get around 15 blokes (and it was the Brumbies 20 year olds smashing Roe and Croft - not just running around Tirinui and Ione).
Let’s hope the quest for the finals pressure has eased on Fisher due to the current state of the squad and that he’s given free hand to see if last week’s tactics and approach will work against bigger stonger clubs. Friday night would be a good start.
Andrew - would be interesting to explore if the length of season increases pressure on coaches to dictate playing patterns based around lowest common denominator wins. Coaches in the AFL and NRL have 22 weeks to experiment a bit - 14 weeks must stifle innovation completely.
ADH said | March 6th 2008 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
AndyS,
I think you’ll find that JO’N hasn’t closed the door on an ARC style competition. He actually commented that should a viable solution come up in the near future, the ARU would definitely look into it.
Read this: http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/01/15/arc-let-sleeping-dogs-lie/
It paints a pretty good picture as to the financial state of the ARC.
AndyS said | March 6th 2008 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Yes, well, I find it hard to take him at his word. He also said of the ARC “…we will review it at the end of the year. That does not mean it will be dismantled, nor does it mean it will not change.”. That was clearly crap, as dismantled it was.
I am aware of the financial situation - $3.5M as the number budgetted from the start, but over-runs of $524k, $217k and $577k for NSW, Q’ld and Vic respectively. But again, note that both ACT and WA were clearly doing something right…were any lessons learnt and transferred to the other provinces? Matt Carroll said that the ARC could have continued in a streamlined format if the NSWRU and QRU had been prepared to be responsible for their costs, but they wouldn’t - were the management abilities or methods of the “rugby heartlands” queried or examined? It was also notable that, while the ARU was prepared to include overruns into their calculations, they didn’t feel it necessary to include the $2 million a year saving made by eliminating the “Premier Rugby” funding once the ARC took over player development. It all just reeked of expediency and maintaining the status quo, perhaps leavened by a bit of territorial marking.
But this is all old ground, well covered elsewhere. I am sure the brains-trust at the ARU will dazzle us with a scheme that will be immediately financial and ensure a cascade of talented youngsters that can immediately adapt to S14 rugby. The indications are that they are in no particular rush though, probably because the existing systems are so good. I mean look how many Beales and Coopers there are waiting in the wings, how quickly those two examples have taken to dominating the opposition and the embarrassment of choices we have in the front row.
mudskipper said | March 6th 2008 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
The great shame about the delay in ARU decision to shut down ARC last year was it has left many developing players without a comp to play in this year… Many of these players have had to look overseas for profession rugby opportunities because the provinces had already made their 2008 academy selections…the fact that they will be out of sight of Australian Coaches will not be of assistance to them or any of the Australian provinces and their development programmes…
This S14 the Force have recalled a halfback from the Northern Hemisphere, Brumbies are opening all options as they have run out of academy players, Waratahs this week have young Horne on the bench and are lucky Lachie Turner is available and the Reds must be looking for new options… Its only week 4… Often a young player may only come of the bench for a few S14 games pre season if lucky so it can take a couple of years before their full ability is seen… The ARC was a good silo for young players interested in Australian rugby… Lets hope the ARU working out something suitable for 2009…