AFL international expansion won’t happen soon

Joe FC said  | March 18th 2008 @ 7:19pm | Report comment

What?
No point by point rebutal.
No statistically laden refute.
No counter argument bristling with empirical evidence.
Merely a child’s nursery rhyme as code for YOU’RE NOT WRONG

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LK said  | March 18th 2008 @ 8:08pm | Report comment

Say it ain’t so, Joe. Every day I log on to The Roar eagerly anticipating the next hotbed of AFL. Canada and Sth Africa last week, who will it be this week? Lapland? Burkina Faso? Sometimes I think the international AFL stories are spun direct from head office. This is to convince gullible Aussies that the AFL has an international presence and would-be sponsors and fans should jump on board.
I actually enjoy AFL but the international stories are fanciful and increasingly tiresome.

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sheek said  | March 18th 2008 @ 9:18pm | Report comment

Realistically, Australian Football can expect the same fate as American Football & Canadian Football & Gaelic Football - hugely popular within their own borders, but a novelty elsewhere.

At present I would say most countries are happy with the football codes they have, making it exceptionally hard for any new footy codes to break-in.

There is also the name. Deep down, Yanks don’t feel comfortable playing a sport called “Australian football”, just as Aussies don’t feel comfortable playing a sport called “American football”. There’s no sense of ownership, unless of course, you are from the same country as that particularly named football code.

Perhaps we can clarify this by calling soccer World football; & the other footy codes can fight over Earth, Universe, Galaxy, Cosmos, etc, football.

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Midfielder said  | March 18th 2008 @ 9:30pm | Report comment

Sheek

Some marketing guy got in there long before you “The World Game” …………….following on your lead thr its makes sense.

AFL ‘The Universe Game” played everywhere……………..sheek you should have been in marketing

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Redb said  | March 18th 2008 @ 9:47pm | Report comment

Midfielder,

Congratulations you’ve won my award for stating the bleeding obvious. re my troll remark, no-one has said we are on the verge of world domination. But if people dont like reading about footy being played in other countries then its just a sublime click away…..getting all bitter and twisted over it is frankly pretty funny.

cheers
Redb

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Redb said  | March 18th 2008 @ 9:58pm | Report comment

Midfielder,

Wasn;t aimed at you.

cheers
Redb

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Redb said  | March 18th 2008 @ 10:48pm | Report comment

Sheek,

The standard is very low. Theres the Orange County Bombers, Boston Demons, Chicago Swans, New York magpies, etc Some countries like Canada have junior leagues, its all a bit haphazard and only of interest to us AFL tragics.

I enjoy union and soccer as well.

cheers
Redb

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Midfielder said  | March 19th 2008 @ 12:11am | Report comment

Not Football bloggers a copy of a Foxsports today and it talks about I guess the committment to play for the Socceroos.

These stories down the years have never been told in non football circles ………….anyway to the story and for the AFL, Union & League guys imagine your best players doing this………….not saying they would not…………but give credit were its due…………in a sport were international is bigger than clubs.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23396739-23215,00.html

McDonald suffers for World Cup dream

By Ronnie Esplin

March 18, 2008 CELTIC striker Scott McDonald revealed the logistical difficulties he will endure during his mystery journey to the Far East as he hopes to keep alive his dream of appearing for Australia in the 2010 World Cup.

McDonald will fly out of Scotland after Sunday’s Scottish Premier League clash with Gretna to join his Socceroos teammates for a group qualifier against China in Kunming.

In addition to two long flights, the 24-year-old will have to prepare for a game at altitude before he returns to play against Rangers at Ibrox in a crucial SPL game.

He said: “These are the sacrifices you have to make for your country. It’s important for me because it’s a chance to play in the World Cup. To turn my back on that would be pretty stupid.

“The gaffer has fully backed us as well. He’s been great with everyone, he always wants his players to play for their country.

“We’re playing somewhere near Tibet but I don’t know too much about where I’m going. The game’s being played above sea level to give the Chinese every chance of beating us.”

Despite the difficulties, McDonald is confident he will be in peak condition to face Rangers.

“Australia have physios and doctors in a set-up which is second to none,” he said.

“We have doctors travelling with us on planes making sure we’re sleeping at the right times, even giving us asthma pumps because we’re playing above sea level.

“I had a lung test before I went away the last time. They said for me to cope in these conditions I’d have to take one of the asthma pumps.

“They’ll be making sure we’re well looked after and we come back in good condition because the last thing they want is clubs complaining about it and not letting us go the next time.

“Last time I came back from Australia having played on the Wednesday we played Aberdeen on the Sunday and we won 5-1 and I scored a double. So it’s okay as long as you look after yourself.”

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Redb said  | March 19th 2008 @ 8:39am | Report comment

LK,

Trolling is deliberately stirring the pot without any constructive intent. Take our mate Rodney above.

Where has ‘Joe O’Sullivan’ been whilst this thread has dribbled along?

Now there has been progress in North America with Australian football been played on an ever increasing basis (from a zero base). In the USA there was no organised Australian football games prior to 1996, none, not one team of expats, amateurs, park funsters, zippo. In the last ten years this has grown to over 50 teams. That is a fact. Is it newsworthy?, well that depends on your point of view. I like the story as I’ve said. Canada has junior teams, not expats and old farts, but an organised junior competition with developing pathways,etc Will it ever amount to anything in ten years, perhaps, in fact there is already a Canadian teenager playing in the QAFL.

Like I said if your not interested in Australian football being played overseas, please feel free to click away now.

cheers
Redb

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Joe O'Sullivan said  | March 19th 2008 @ 9:40am | Report comment

Redb
As you say its a free world. AFL supporters can write about growing international aussie rules & I can advance a contrradictory view. Why the former is not troll but mine is I’m not quite sure but that is unimportant. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I can choose not to read supportive AFL international posts as you can choose not to read mine. But I did & you did. Neither of us have sinned. You are an AFL tragic ( your words ) & I’m utterly uninterested in the game. Neither of us need apologise for that. I might not like what you write & you might not like what I write. These are our respective rights ( no pun intended ).
Enjoy your AFL & I will enjoy my interests.

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Redb said  | March 19th 2008 @ 10:08am | Report comment

Lk,

I see this as a perception thing. The article implies an over statement of AFL’s international footprint. AFL’s international footprint is tiny compared to the other 3 codes in Australia. Well Soccer has a footprint, rugby maybe two toes and an ankle, Rl a toe, AFL has a toenail. But it has a ‘footprint’ nonetheless it is played overseas and it is growing , these are facts.

I think the intent of the article was to over play any AFL fan’s comments about the international growth of the game, it was disingenous and potentially only designed to setup any comments for ridicule from other trollers, surprise, surprise.

But if you have any interest, try World Footy News, its a good read.

cheers
Redb

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Michael C said  | March 19th 2008 @ 11:54am | Report comment

Junior international competition as distinct to ‘elite professional’.

At the junior level it is amateur - there may be grand dreams of a $200K a week pay cheque in the EPL or NBA. But, realistically, it’s amateur - such that at various times the under 19 cricket world cup produces results completely incongruous with the more known ‘open age’ competiton.

Junior competition, with bodies and minds that are still developing - is more about talent identification than anything else - and that’s talent in the broader sense of not just a good beep test result.

The simple fact now - that would have been almost undreamed of even just 5 years ago - is that a pretty good little international juniors tournament could be held playing Aust Footy involving England, Denmark, Sweden, PNG, Sth Africa, US, Canada, Nauru, Tonga, Samoa and probably New Zealand, maybe Scotland in the near future, and maybe Ireland. This is the real ’surprise’, this is outside of happy amateurs and ex-pats having a social get together and generating enough funds for a ’sporting’ holiday once every 3 or 4 years. But - let’s see where it all is in 5 years time.

Certainly - still, to play them against a ‘best of Australia’ junior rep team would be plain silly. To play them against a state team would be silly.

However, for the vast majority of us who play a bit as kids and then concentrage on a real job and play hack level on Saturdays over winter - going on to a international professional career probably never really was an option. And so, the fact that already juniors have represented the nations of the US, Canada, England, Denmark, Sweden etc in international matches - at that level, it doesn’t really matter what sport they are playing. And the potential to attract more kids to the game on the basis of the odd international rep game might be a reasonable carrot.

The main question then to the AFL is ‘what you gonna do about it??’. And they, (the AFL) would be negligent to not at least attempt to put in place some frame work that could allow kids to get properly INTO the system. Still, a big ask to move to the other side of the world to one of the most isolated countries in the world.

I do reckon at present, the AFL have figured this is a good chance to test the water. A 17th and 18th team coming in. If ever the clubs are going to be willing to have a serious look outside the square - the next 5-10 years will be it.
If ever those grass roots ‘developers’ of the game overseas have wanted a ‘lure’, then they will have it for the next 5-10 years. This might be make or break.
Again, we know there are kids from PNG (where there are over 10,000 registered players and 4 main regions that participate in the 2007 national juniors from Under 13s to U17s, including girls competitions) in the QLD talent pathway. It is entirely predictable that some PNG ‘natives’ will come through, following in a sense PNG born Mal Michael. That’s the nearest thing to a ‘given’ that there is.
The main curiousity is whether someone bobs up from an unexpected quarter - and that was the purpose of the article. A 192 cm Canadian talented basketballer, soccer player, volleyballer - that alone would be a package you’d think that if you got him at age 16-17 might be able to show enough in a single year of footy. The fact that he’s played footy since age 13 in Canada means there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why he can’t ‘make it’. Anybody willing to suggest that’s not so?
————————–

At the end of it all - we ALL KNOW ALL THE REASONS WHY NOT!! We (AFL folk) don’t need others telling us. We know. However, there’s recently been this little movement that’s slowly, slowly growing in some places, and rapidly in others. And the really curious thing to observe is the way that momentum picks up momentum.
And while there is observable growth - especially at junior level, and now that the world is more ‘open’, the internet is a communications highway and support mechanism and while more games of AFL and even the entire Brownlow count broadcast can be seen on Setanta (and Rusty Crowe bleats that he can’t even get a NRL game on once a fortnight) - well, there’s just a chance that this may be just the beginning of a growth phase.

Or it may be the peak already.

Are we having our cake and eating it too?
Not yet. That’s for sure.
Only a fool would really, really suggest AFL players getting decent standard international matches.
And for those of us who effectively voted against State of Origin mid season because it compromises the regular club competiton - well, if they were to start playing for the country - then, JUST DON’T DO IT DURING THE SEASON!!!!!!

(you can get away with setting the rules when it’s your own game!!!!)

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Millster said  | March 19th 2008 @ 2:18pm | Report comment

Joe O’Sullivan - thankyou for a balanced, realistic but yet respectful article. I read it once, and after following the debate I read it again to be sure. This is nothing like the “League - who really gets it” article which I thought was a crock of shit. (PS I’m not biased in this as I am a football fan and enjoy, but do not regularly follow, both League and AFL in pretty much equal measure as ‘occasional entertainment’).

Your last four lines are well put. The key asset of AFL is that it is a highly entertaining, reasonably skillful game that is utterly indigenous - attractive to locals and a true curiosity to foreigners. It is a key part of our cultural heritage and of the community that is Australia. Iconic - like say Curling is in Canada, or Sumo in Japan, but fortunately a better sport than both.

Incidentally Curling and Sumo are contested in a whole range of countries at ‘hobby’/’social’/'amateur’ levels and even in some cases in reasonably organised leagues. Does that REALLY make them international, or even aspiring international sports?….. PAH!

I agree with your very last line. AFL-ites do “want to have their cake and eat it”. They want the unique cultural niche that is their sport, but they also want it to step up and be measured against the more international games. This is totally unrealistic and frankly irrelevent as an aspiration. It should not be a consideration for AFL fans who have a unique asset right here in Australia, that should be nurtured IN ITS OWN WAY.

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Millster said  | March 19th 2008 @ 4:01pm | Report comment

RedB - you know what, while you are probably the most passionate of the decent writers on this site (with apologies to your AFL compadre Michael C), I do take on some of your points. To be honest I think the “fear” that we all smell is equal in each camp. It wasn’t so long ago that football was a complete shambles - unable even to pay for the airfares of players to international fixtures let alone to run any kind of decent domestic competition. And while we turn to the global dominance of our code for comfort, reality ‘down under’ is that we still have a long way to go.

I don’t agree with the “general assessment” that AFL has wasted 150 years of potential geographic growth. It is a specific game grown out of specific circumstances and I for one am both mildly surprised and deeply congratulatory that such a unique game has grown into such a national cultural tradition. I’m not sucking up. I genuinely like the game and its place in the sporting landscape. It offers something quite different to football, and to the rugby codes.

And so onto your questions in your final para.

Do I want my code to be “number one in a generation”?

Yes, no, who cares… I can tell you what I want. I want to be able to watch it played at the very highest global level, mainly on TV but also through the odd live fixture. I want us to regularly and proudly represent at the World Cup, Confederations Cup, and Asian Cup finals - simply no other team sport allows for the level of national pride of competing in an overall pool that includes pretty much all of the 200+ nation-states of the globe, and that provides fixtures that cross religions, cultures, classes, and the deepest political divides (eg. USA-Iran in the group stages of WC2002, qualifiers between Nth and Sth Korea). And I want a domestic league that gives me exciting football that I can attend in person, a club I can feel part of, and an improving standard of both play and management which is tested regularly by inclusion in competitions between the clubs from our league and those of different nations.

Those things combined might make football “number one in a generation” if they are achieved. But is being number one the goal, or is it just a by-product of getting the beautiful game into the minds and hearts of people? For me it’s all about the latter, not the former - which I’ll leave to the marketeers and to the jealous types.

And where will that leave the AFL? Look who knows? But while the various major sporting markets in the world are dominated by the global, big-money, big-audience sports this has not necessarily equated with the demise of interesting, vibrant competitions in other sporting codes that are entrenched in particular geographies or cultures as “mega-niches”. I think the AFL’s future is bright as long as it is not suckered (I use that word very deliberately) into going head to head with football, or even with the two rugby codes which are GENUINELY played in other countries - albeit in both cases in a limited set.

The AFL’s major long term challenge will be junior participation and development, but even there at least we’re talking codes of ‘footy’ with some transferrability of skills and not the dilemma faced by say a talented sporting kid in the USA (choices equal the essentially untransferrable basketball, baseball or gridiron). But back to the main point, the natural forces of globalisation have heralded a world in which AFLs grasp on the #1 spot will slip away as sure as night follows day. Holding onto that measure as the definition of success is the one sure way to blow away all the success that the game has had, and to turn the AFL’s bright future (and uniqueness as a piece of Australiana) into a dusty piece of tragic history.

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Westy said  | March 19th 2008 @ 4:25pm | Report comment

Redb…….What is this war…..you write articles on the Age AFL site you can be as biased as you like but this is a multi sport site. North of the border there is a healthier attitude to a number of sports. I am personally sick of all this war talk to elicit emotive defensive responses. There are a large number of people north of Albury Wadonga who do not simply accept AFL as the sole sporting embodiment of Australian culture. It is that simple. I for one have no problem in the AFL starting an AFL team in Western Sydney. Anyone who is willing to spend so much money in my region is very welcome . Simply make your points and cut the war talk. AFL is one of the sporting codes in Australia. It is very well run . I will watch a game live now and then , appreciate some skillful players but sadly find it not great for television. Its just my opinion. However I would very much find Australian sporting culture the poorer if viable rugby, league , football and basketball competitions did not exist as well as AFL. I follow state cricket closely. The dominance of AFL in Victoria is hurting Victorian junior cricket. This is not a criticism of the AFL just a consequenceof its success. The same is very evident in South Australia which is further worsened by its declining birth rate and aging population. The calibre of athlete avilable to NSW cricket is higher and deeper than Victoria and SA. There are people north of the border and some in Victoria who take great pride in the efforts of the Socceroos, Wallabies and Kangaroos but have no idea of who Richo or Richmond is nor do they care. They are as Australian as any Aussie Rules supporter and have as deep a committment to this nation. It is not war it is respect. Most sporting coaches of the various codes watch the others simply because their are transferable skills and strategies. Watching ” some” AFL teams passing the ball backwards and across then backwards is as boring as any overly defensive game of league or football or penalty ridden rugbty match. I do not have to pick sides. Nsw and QLD appreciate good skills but do not need AFL to define their character or existence nor does any Australian. More Australian soldiers sailors and airman have come from non AFL backgrounds . They do not need it to enhance their identity as AUstralians.

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Rodney said  | March 19th 2008 @ 4:42pm | Report comment

Clarkey, i’ll post back later as I have some things to do now and some beer later.

Cheers.

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Towser said  | March 19th 2008 @ 5:34pm | Report comment

Redb

Personally I have no interest in Australian Rules if it lives or dies I dont care . But in the Southern states it is obviously part of their history and some people such as yourself do.
As a football fan and Frank Lowy is one too remember through his family a generational thing as expressed by AFL fans also, so you should understand where hes coming from. Because he was born elsewhere doesn’t make his passion for the game in Australia any different from Johnny Warrens when he was still alive.
Talk of domination is a paranoia in your own mind. What is happening is that Football has at last got its act together. Being Australians we want to be the best in a sport ,or in the case of football because of its global spread, at least to be in the top 20 nations on the planet. To do this we have to compete with nations where the game is a religion ,therefore we cannot sit back on our laurels and expect this to be delivered on a platter its hard work.
It will take many years of consistent clever planning coaching and street wise smarts on a global level. Fortunately for football fans the FFA is being run by a man who understands whats needed to expand globally having done it through his Business(Remember FL tried to implement his visionary ideas nearly 30 years ago and failed .Why because the time wasn’t right for many reasons).
When I and other long term football fans sit down and review whats happening in football do we consider thas it will upset AFL folk? Of course not no more than we would consider the book reading class down the street.
What scares me and Frank Lowy is lack of success on the park and therefore lack of momentum for the game.
Will the Chinese have put one over us by playing in Kunming at altitude next week ,having been there since March 1st in a training camp,whereas most of our boys arrive there on the Monday before the Wednesday game. Or what players will be injured for their club this weekend.
Theres a million other things to worry about in football than other sports.
If it affects other sports in the end(which I dont see for AFL unless they dont play to their strengths as Millster said) then its not footballs fault that we have to compete with the whole world to be on top of our game.

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Michael C said  | March 20th 2008 @ 9:36am | Report comment

Towser -

how did that comment relate to the topic? What, simply that Soccer fundamentalists don’t have any regard for any other sport.

Oh gosh, we realise that already, there certainly are soccer folk who live and breath it 24/7, 365 days a year. We feel sorry for them - that they seem overly willing to even deny the Olympics - because the FIFA WC is bigger………such a biggest is best mentality.

Which - point of all this - reminds me of someone who ran through the numbers of effectively how many registered players across the world each player in the top 4 leagues represents. Which, makes me suggest that should India and China ever come on board ‘proper’ as soccer nations - Australia may as well give up - the numbers will be so totally against us.

But - your hope is that it’s NOT PURELY a numbers game. Which is what we always hope for in what ever sport we follow - and, that’s why we who follow AFL for example hope to heck that Australian soccer can get a bit more efficient with it’s talent pathways etc and somehow become a little more successful…….but, our reservation is that we don’t want soccer gaining an inch to suddenly see it explode miles away as almost the sole sport in this country. We love our AFL - but, love to follow a broad spectrum of sports - it seems there’s a fair proportion of myopic ’soccer’ followers - and they’re the ones that we resent - and if too many of those ascend to power - it ensures there is and will be a ‘war’ in the market place.

And, so, back to the thread - the AFL has to become more robust. If that means that PNG which is almost level pegging with RL now for registered players - so, if PNG comes ‘on line’ as a recruiting zone. Then, that ads greater depth and an added dimension.
Beyond that seems much less certain. I’d hope that you at least would be able to take a broader view and wish us luck - rather than just denigrate the game as a curiousity from the southern states.

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Michael C said  | March 20th 2008 @ 2:54pm | Report comment

For the Record - number 1.

(this is part of providing perspective of Aust Footy overseas - keeping mindful that some top 10 RLWC contenders represent local associations of around 1000, give or take. Roughly the equivalent of what one might expect from a reasonable size country city.)

Aust Football in Canada.

Canadian Australian Football League founded in 1989
Registered players presently
about 525 adult, 300 juniors

Leagues
Ontario AFL
North West Pacific FL
North Delta Junior AFL

Clubs
Calgary Kangaroos
Calgary Bears
Calgary Kookaburras
Red Deer Magpies
Burnaby Eagles
Vancouvar Cougars
Victoria Lions
Broadview Hawks
Ottawa Swans
Etobicoke Kangaroos
Guelph Gargoyles
Hamilton Wildcats
High Park Demons
Lakeshore Rebels
Toronto Downtown Dingos
Toronto Eagles Toronto
Central Blues
London Stallions

More information:

Participation trend:
In 2006, there were over 420 senior (approximately 250 Canadian national) Australian rules football players in Canada out of a total of 484, an increase of 25% from 2005.[2][3]

By the end of 2007, this figure had increased to a total of 825 players in organised competitions, of which 525 were senior and 300 were junior, an increase of over 70% from 2006, and a total of 95% increase over 2 years.

a little note re. the NW Delta Juniors:

The North Delta Junior Australian Football League was started in 2003 by Mike Macfarlane. Mike was coaching a boys soccer team at the time, and asked the kids if they would like to learn how to play Australian Football. The kids loved it, so Mike decided to put together this league, and it’s been growing by leaps and bounds ever since!

NOW - if that last paragraph doesn’t give hope to Aust Footy types that US/Canada isn’t a region worth attempting to cultivate - then nothing else would.

—-

and in Canada, the Canadian Rugby League has collapsed and is attempting to relaunch as “Rugby League in Canada”, because, we all know how important a name change is………

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Michael C said  | March 20th 2008 @ 4:02pm | Report comment

Towser -

I have just read a reply on the NRL’s new battle plan thread that does NOT dispute only 1000 in Tonga, or Canada back at the drawing board etc. And, the point stressed - you have to start somewhere.

In Canada - THAT IS SOMEWHERE, and it’s a start. By comparison to some of the RL ‘top 10/20′ countries with a 6 team league. This is the perspective.

What investment has the AFL put into Canada in recent times. Sure, a couple of exhibition games were held back in the 80’s, one in Toronto drew 32K. Stuff all since then.

These programs in other countries, such as Canada - ARE NOT AFL funded - the AFL has steered well away from just gifting money - the dominant level of help now as a ‘global body’ - which is only a ‘role’ the AFL has ‘accepted’ recently - is more around advisory input. You seem to have a mis-perception that the AFL has been instigating these developments. It hasn’t. It’s been ex-pats and locals.

The facts in Canada of percentage increase and the relative number of locals are such that there is a relative (small) niche slowly developing.

The question now for the AFL is how can it best assist to ensure that there isn’t stagnation.

btw - so, you’re saying Canadians are useless at sport - well, yeah, they don’t do that much in the Commonwealth games even, do they?

Now - it’s been explained the AFL is wasting it’s time and resources in NSW and QLD, or, you suggest to consolidate there - I do believe they are doing that. Consolidating there.

Why do you say the AFL is competing with ‘football’ in somewhere like Canada. The AFL in a sense is competing with every other sport - as is ’soccer’. That’s a given. What’s the difference? Why should that stop anybody.
As long as the AFL come across kids who want a bit more excitement than is offered by soccer, and a bit more ball play than is offered by Rugby(both) and Grid Iron and a little more general fitness or a little more athletic diversity etc - - there are plenty of reasons that might be argued that there actually IS a need for an Aust Footy type game to fill the niche between soccer and Rugby/Grid Iron.
And the AFL needs to insure it’s Aust Footy, and not Gaelic (I saw a quote recently that International Rules is too much like Gaelic and really is only interesting because it’s how Soccer SHOULD be played!!!).

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Millster said  | March 20th 2008 @ 4:55pm | Report comment

Towser - while I’m on the football side of this debate (that’s soccer to you MC!) and agree with some of what you’ve written, don’t put words in my mouth.

I never said AFL’s spreading its wings was pointless.

Indeed as an enjoyable cultural “cool and different thing to do” I am not surprised, and altogether welcoming, of little pockets of AFL occurring in different countries - both playing and watching the game. I think it’s cool that people involved in AFL are spread far and wide. Just as I think its cool for small competitions of ice hockey, grid-iron, lacrosse, etc to happen here. In the rapidly homogenising “global village” that we now have thanks to communications technologies, I LOVE little bits of unique culture when they pop up.

My point is a bit different. Its that AFL should not compete head to head with football, using the same measures of success. Neither globally now, nor probably even in Australia if you go 10 years into the future. But I say that NOT because I want football to “win” (I guess I’m safe knowing that even if it dies in Australia I’ll still have my favoured European teams o follow) but in fact because I don’t want AFL to “lose” so badly that it is fatally wounded. It has a place and I want it to survive as I enjoy it for what it’s worth. Same for League and Union.

As I’ve written many times before, THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A WAR FOR US SPECTATORS. For administrators, marketers and to some extent journos, it is about being one-eyed and protecting the interests of the code that pays your bills. But for little old me, until I become chairman of either the FFA or the FFF at least, the world would be a shitter place if I could not support my Saints, my Chooks, and my Brumbies in those few minutes of the week not devoted to SFC and PSG.

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Jason Andrew Toppin said  | March 21st 2008 @ 8:19pm | Report comment

AFL could be international later rather than sooner - ‘could’ is the operative word.

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westy said  | March 22nd 2008 @ 8:57pm | Report comment

Michael c.. If I can put it this simply on my last visits and conversations with people in Port and Wewak I have never been asked to bring/send AFL jumpers but have been pressed for League tops ,jerseys etc. . Have you been there?….It seems to me league is liked there …. I must have been mixing with the wrong people again. …..

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sheek said  | March 23rd 2008 @ 8:52am | Report comment

Just as a useless bit of info, I was 6 & living in Bogia, PNG (midway between Madang & Wewak) in 1962. Michael Somare was a student teacher at the local primary school. I don’t remember, but my folks told me this was so. I was one of about 3 whites in the whole school!

Growing up later in Madang, we played Soccer & AFL. The primary school there was like a united nations, we had kids from every state in Australia, plus USA, Canada, NZ, Wales, Holland, Germany, polynesians, chinese & natives. Birthday parties were like attending a world fair.

Later, living in Port Moresby while boarding in Sydney, we played rugby union at school in Oz, but rugby league during school hols. We had our own state-of-origin. NSW boarders versus Qld boarders, before the idea took off in Oz.

Consequently, I grew up liking all 4 footy codes. As the French say, “Vive la difference”. However, where the history is concerned, we should be aware of those trying to twist it.

League in Australia started in 1907, & their first games were under union rules, & there’s nothing wrong with that. AFL as an organisation, began in 1858, but their first games were also rugby union, & there’s nothing wrong with that either.

It’s absurd to think that the sports we see today, just magically appeared in tact all those years ago. It’s an evolutionary thing.

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Redb said  | March 23rd 2008 @ 4:05pm | Report comment

Midfielder,

Jake who? and the relevance to AFL expansion is?

Westy, I think you right about rugby league as it stands today. Aussie Rules was very big in PNG and North Qld for that matter in the 1970s, but didn’t follow though with development and RL through geography more than anything seized the initative. The AFL didn’t begin any expansion/development from southern Australia and sloppy at that, until 1981. It has