HYPOCRITE.

With due respect i was brought up on rugby union played it and watched it for years , before I became involved in rugby league.Decades also applies to my timeframe.Even had my nose rearranged in one of those delightful rucks.
You talk about salary caps(which will increase due to Tv contracts/sponsorship) and have seen a liitle whatsover drift to union by players.You go on about the length of the season,yet your own supremo is pushing for an extended S14 season,and having another Bledisloe test in Honkers.Ah yes the old hackneyed simple sanitised game,in contrast to the highly technical,whizbang configuration that is rugby union.
You go on and finish by saying its not a union v league thing,preceeded by the very such thing.
You quote Warren Ryan (rather badly I might say) he stated 5 tackles and a kick ,when I listened to 702 not 4 tackles.The same gent on more than one occasion,noted aspects of play in a rugby league game,saying we don’t want to end up like a boring union match.He like me, enjoys watching the All Blacks.Kerry Packer described rugby union at the time of the SL war as dogs’ breakfasts,and from my current S14 observations nothing has changed.
You lose the plot when you discuss the body shapes as if they don’t have them in rugby league.I happened to also attend the Sharks v Tigers match,and saw large,small,lythe,muscular ,tall,(all by the way athletic players in terms of running speed),a handy requirement in a running game.These athletes were not bogged down by technicalities nor those crowd seducing rucks and mauls(or seagulls chasing chips fest).The game had errors,5 tackles and a kick,front on tackles that brought the crowd to their feet,open running,penalties,evasive forwards and backs with the speed and agility and strength to avoid and fend off tacklers to score tries,catches in difficult positions.The ball was in play for the vast majority of the game,giving us paying spectators value for money.Probably why the game is on FTA TV.
Maybe that is why the likes of Palau,Elsom and Harris,hardly set the world on fire in rugby league,but are sure as hell doing much better in union.Rogers admiited the pace of the game he found difficult to adjust to when he returned to rugby league with the Titans.
Speaking of the Titans,if anyone wants to see the way rugby in its true running sense should be played,that is the team.
There are a few other NRL clubs who can and do play a similar style.Can’t say the same for the other code in the main.
I suppose you could say I was raised in union ,forged in league,sometimes the most simple things in life are the more appealing and easier to follow and understand.

Further, league games, due to salary cap effects, a long season, and an emphasis on a simplified, sadly sanitised game, often produces a predictable processional game. 4 hit ups, go wind then kick. 4 hit ups, go wind then kick. get near the try line and use a kick to either score or get the ball back for more of the same. Other than “not turning up”, penalties and mistakes are the determining factors. They both create instant field position. Not me speaking but Warren Ryan.

As skill levels increase in league and union, league becomes more processional (less errors and penalties) and union becomes more entertaining because the player skills allow them to better deal with the challenges presented by Union: more players on the field, bigger guys, smaller guys, more complexity, more strategy and most importantly, contested ball at every tackle. Union has many more playing styles. There is essentially one way to play league, with variations, sure its not that easy to do but nor is it impossible to achieve.

Finally, this is not about league v union, just my view of the two games and my predictions about their futures and my logic behind those predictions.

Atmosphere is definitely not intangible!!! Just go to a really big sporting event, and feel the atmosphere. For me, atmosphere is what it is all about. Melb Cup at Flemmington, Grand National, Aintree; Brett Lee opening the bowling in the Syd test on a green top!!! England V Scotland at Murrayfield, France V England at Paris; Wales V england in Cardiff. Chelsea V man U at stamford Bridge; Brazil V Argentina; England V Germany at Wembley; Challenge Cup at Wembley; Wimbledon, The (British) Open.

As for my simple economics: answer this: who is going to pay for it in the long run??? not this year, not next but in the many years to come when the funds are not there, ultimately!

You dont really go to watch “defence, attack, strategy, drama, kicking, combat, fatigue, match ups..TANGIBLES.” If you really did, you would watch rugby because it has much more of that, and trades it off with the simplistic and contrived “entertainment” that league is based on. Secure possession, salary caps, no real international competition (Aust v NZ????) and especially the scrums. I’m with Artie Beetson. Ridiculous and embarassing for such a once riveting and engaging game.

This will be my last response. Your illogicality is very frustrating. Too hard.

But, by all means you should continue to count on those funds from ANZ, at the cost of the spectators opinions. Don’t, for a minute, expect them to dry up!!!! The World owes every sport a life line of tax payer funds! (JOKE)

Not one suburban ground in Sydney has had a crowd over 20,000 to date.

I was at Shark Park today and really took in the atmosphere of a packed 17,000 in that ground. I loved queuing for $3 bottle of water and $4 meat pie for 24 mins, I loved taking my son into the piss stenched toilets with broken urinals, I loved having people walk all over our area on the hill, I loved the 15 min wait to get out of the ground at the end, I loved the 25 min walk to the station.

This was in direct comparrison to my experience at ANZ for the Anzac Day clash where I never queued ONCE for food or beverages (comparitavely priced to Shark Park), was helped by friendly, informed staff, sat in a comfortable seat with my son, experienced immaculate ammenities, including ample ATM’s, managed to disperse from the Stadium in less than 2 mins, 5 mins to the Station and on an express train back to the city.

I live in the Southern Sydney area and from door to door it was 10 mins longer to get home from Homebush than it was my ‘local’ ground.

As for comparing the EXPERIENCE, which is what i pay my money for, then ANZ is a country mile ahead.

I can’t understand people who pay money and then have expectations on ‘intangible’ things ike atmosphere? When have you honestly ever said, “I am definately going to watch Roosters V Melbourne, the atmosphere will be unreal”..NEVER, “You go to the footy to watch defence, attack, strategy, drama, kicking, combat, fatigue, match ups..TANGIBLES. Then you might get atmosphere from that, but never without it. Just so you know, I have been to Roosters game at the SFS Mecca and you could hear a pin drop in there with the other 12,000 people.

Yes the SFS is formatted better for games which have a rectangular bounday by nature, but in no way does that guarentee you a better spectacle.

The point being in all this is, now you have exposed yourself Mr Rugby, is that the ANZ model is one that will ultimately lead to more success for Rugby League clubs in Sydney, and that ruins your shithouse ‘simple economics’ theory.

See you at ANZ Stadium!

You mean simple economics like how inflation, petrol, interest rates and general cost of living make a ‘luxury’ like Pay TV a burden only the A1 demographic? The only medium that pays Rugby Union to be televised, and the ARU earn their slice as a poor performing peice of ‘brown lettuce’ in the SANZAR sandwich?

Then explain how Rugby League is the most watched program on that ‘most exclusive of television medium’s'? Surely this is the domain of the affluent sponsors? Surely they want to assimilate to the program that gets them the most exposure? You need to do more homework on the make up of the Rugby League demographic, I am sure there has been a major shift since you last looked.

LAS,you can poke your fingers in your ears and sing ‘la la la la’ all you want my friend. Rugby League has survived and held off your sport through the MOST TURBULENT period in professional sport ever, when you consider the pressure in this country on the sports and their slice of the pie.

It is Rugby Union, seriously defending dwindling crowds, no exposure, embarrssing ratings, no juniors, zero pathways, an empty war chest from the RWC2003, disappearing competitions and shrinking revenue across all key indicators that has all hands to the pump at the moment.

At least you were right about simple economics. Shame you have them arse up.

Rugby league is now a game for all strata of society,it was grounded in the working man’s ideal, but now appeals to a much wider group,otherewise the business people and professionals who follow my local team in a tribal fashion are wasting their time.We have a better educated society,maybe you should have a chat with Martin Raftery the Wallaby’s doctor who happened to be a former Cronulla first grader to keep you up to speed.The days of players being wharfies and labourers,like your past trips to Kogarah are as they say , ancient history.

I remember the ignorant statement by Richard Hinds in the Sydney Morning Herald,when he attended a recent Titans match.He was suprised to see a large number of families,as the perception is(or is it the AFL’s), the game is a blokes sport.Suggest he visit other NRL games to get a view of the real world.

Kogarah Oval by the way ,is being upgraded for the comfort of the local tribe St George.Thus Telstra Stadium is temporary.

I didnt say it would happen tomorrow. Frankly, i dont know when it will happen. probably 20-40 years. But it will happen!!!!

You tell me how wrong I am on many fronts yet you come up with the notion that Rugby Union will supass Rugby League in this country. Mate, you or I wont see that in our life time.

Your aware of the situation Rugby Union has now found it self in and will require every ounce of it’s PR machine to get itself back into 3rd position behind AFL, RL And soccer.

Rugby Union is suffering from the fact that it is a gentlemans sport now being played bey athletes, no more flowing rugby as possession is key, no more expansive backline plays as defenses are ‘up an in’. no more risk taking due to lower percentage of defenive misses. The new ELV’s are an improvement, statistically and nothing else.
Why do you think the ARU is calling for private investment in State Unions? Why do you think players are looking O/S en masse despite a failing excahnge rate? Why was the saviour competition, ARC, abandoned? Why are there more Western Sydney Rugby League kids on scholarship with Private Rugby Schools then ever? Why is AFL making massive inroads into the private schools? Why have the ARU cut ticket prices to all Test matches this year? Why is there an addidtional Bledisloe Test? Why has there been more Rugby staff turned over in the past 18 months than in the preceeding 5 years?

Because Australian Rugby is on it’s arse, that’s why. The game barely gets 20,000 to home games in Australia with all provinces experiencing massive drops in revenue across the board. Gates, merchandise, hospitality, memberships have dipped dramatically to the point of going backwards. Hence the call for private ownership, the ARU can see a date on the horizon where they wont be able to support the provinces.
The next CBA negotiation will see the biggest clean out of Rugby talent this country has ever seen. Elsom and Vickerman are about to go to court over early release precedents because they, and everyone else is being asked to take pay cuts. There has been an increase in costs (10% ove rthe past 3 years – barely CPI) matched with a 30% di[p in revenue over the same period.
|The ELV’s is the ARU owning up to the fact there game is not performing, the rules are not designed for elite athletes, this is what Rugby League has worked out 90 years ago and have continued to make slight modifications to make it more attractive, as shown in it’s record producing figures in everything, merchandise, up from 2 million p.a. in 2003 to 120 million 2008, ratings, both Pay TV and FTA – RL is the 8 most watched programs in Pay TV every week, Union doesn’t even have free to air exposure other than the 1 million thye pay to the ABC to show ABC Grandstand. Crowds are up 9% on this time last year, Sponsorship Portfolio is worth an estimated 20 million per season and oew the U/20′s competition is travelling so well (out rating Super 14 Rugby last week) that they are getting an additional game on the TV each week.

THe biggest thing for me is the fact that if you had the accument of Rugby Union officials in charge of Rugby league then the game would be even further ahead.

Yes Rugby Union is more dominant O/S but that development is leveraged of the massive amounts of money made on World Cups anf 6N in the early 90′s. Before then there wasn’t anywhere near the amount of teams competitive in Union. What Union has done, from an adminitstrative perspective, can be modelled and copied. WHat Rugby Union can’t do is get it’s product right, because for it to work they need to open up the filed and take away the opportuntiy for large Norhtern Hemispher teams to keep the ball and pick and drive into field goal or penalty situations (see 2007 World Cup).

Rugby League did this over 50 years ago.

Don’t be so sure about your bold prediction on Rugby Union dominating anything.

However, you are wrong on so many fronts.

Tragic? Yes, but for all sports, including cricket, NRL, Rugby, AFL and even been to a few A league games.

The solution is to face the facts: Accept ANZ stadium’s limitations, restructure the debt to manageable levels, stop the payouts and refuse to build any more stadia with tax payer money.

Offer Souths/Balmain/Dogs/Dragons either ANZ, SFS or Showground, a return to their local grounds or a share arrangement with other clubs. They can decide, but no more taxpayer money for either game bribes or to build/upgrade single use stadia.

If they put the spectators first, they will all end up at SFS, because it is the best ground in Sydney for spectators to watch a game (using a rectangular field) and it best suits the size of crowd the teams are attracting. Its not perfect-the transport entry and exit is very poor and unnecessarily so.

ANZ Stadium is currently only suited to games such as Wallabies test matches or State of Origin, Socceroos internationals, A league spectatulars (LA Galaxy), or the odd AFL game where big crowds attend.

Attendees trade off the view for the great atmosphere that only a big crowd can create.

And now for my prediction: Rugby, already an international game, will dominate NRL, at best a regional game: Simple economics. More funds for players, development and promotion. The players will follow the money.

The question is when: I expect it to be gradual and dependent on Rugby management’s skill at exploiting its underlying strengths.

Then, you will have teams that can fill ANZ Stadium and provide the atmosphere that overrides the poor view.

A cricket tragic who has gold membership to the highly exclusive Sydney Football Stadium and wont venture past Concord for a game of Rugby League, who also moonlights as ANZ Stadium’s accountant by the looks of it.

I am aware of the rod these clubs have made for their backs, in regards to reliance on poker machines as it’s source of revenue (which I beleive is taxpayers money too) and it comes from having poorly qualified people in positions of power who have no business accumen. They are acutely aware of their standing in the wider community and understand their skill set would see them performing entry level roles in any other sports organisation.

If you want to see ANZ Stadium take the form of the derelict, defunct and decrepit Barcelona Olympic sight then you should continue to howl down the ANZ stadium. My visit there was so refreshing when I got to the top of the mountain and couldn’t venture past the 15 foot high gates which patially obscured the view of the 10 foot high grass over growing everything, a fantastic legacy, I am sure you will agree.

Yes, ANZ Stadium has massive debts, and an opportunity to service that debt surely lies in the increase of an event schedule. Part of that woud be incentivising NRL Clubs to take marquee games there to enable to leverage and market membership options to the wider community.
In fact I want the Sadium dragged over the coals for appraoching the likes of Police, U2 and Andre Ricelli..aren’t they aware of the more antiquated Entertainment Centre? It has a much better atmosphere….and it’s closer to home for you.

We obviously agree to disagree and I guess it’s easy from where you are, in your ivory tower. Or are you upset that the Rabbits are stone motherless last with little hope ,currently attracting over 30% more spectators to home games than your high flying Roosters, who I believe are playing Premiership winning style football?

Sorry for the delay on my reply, I travel for business on the odd occasion.

Get over yourself and get on a 15 min train to support your team. I have Rooster fan friends travelling from Dubbo for this match. They will leave tomorrow morning at 8 am for the 5 hour drive to ANZ. They said they go to watch the game and the players not to look into the stands to measure crowd involvement or atmosphere. Try it.

You dont get it. The stadium is part of the govt. It is broke!!! Financially stuffed. Kaput!! Its not paying the NRL teams to move there for the love of RL. The Govt are desperate to hide the fact that it is a white elephant.

Before any further posts, check out the stadium’s accounts.

Further, It is not their money that is going to RL teams. It is our money and I would prefer it was spent on things such as hospitals, schools, transport and the homeless.

Since then my post, I have enjoyed the proximity to the play of SFS on two occasions, better food and the excellent facilities (tennis, swimming, gym).

Despite being a roosters fan and having several mates that are Dragons fans, I wont be making the trip on Anzac day. all too hard for a stadium without atmosphere and singularly poor views for the spectator.

That the NRL teams were persuaded by the $75,000 per game shows both how tight things are getting for them and how little they care about the spectators who are keeping the whole thing afloat.

But, if you have depended on the tainted monies from poker machines for so long, morality has long gone out the window and anything is an improvement on that money. Just check out the damage gambling is doing to our society and the cost that we taxpayers have to bear.

For any team to entertain, surely they must survive and prosper first, otherwise they wont be in the competition.

You point the finger at ANZ Styadium when some of these clubs very own councils charge them ridiculous hiring charges to use their home grounds, only the Sharks don’t. I don’t see you gunning for those leeches that just take and take without iomproving facilities.

Your positionon clubs being bribed is a typical rl supporters glass half empty comment, have a good look at the resourses and commitment the stadium provides the clubs from a marketing and promotional perspective. ANZ Stadium now has nearly half of the highest gates for 08 and is besides St Georges contributiion, is averaging well over 25,000 spectators.

You rubbish the Stadium yet fail to mention the benefits that a team coming last has recieved in relation to the above mentioned support where they are averaging over 26,000 fans to a Staium 20km from their home base?

It is pointless discussing this with an arm chair fan anyway. If I am in the minority, how come we have had 100 year old Sydney club Rugby League crowds smahed in consecurtive seasons.

Stick to you guns LAS, force the clubs to stay at their 20,000 seaters, whatch the prices soar as they cant keep pace with players wages and in sufficient amentities. You should be an administrator. lol

Bottom line is ANZ Stadium are doing the right thing as a supporter of the game by working with the clubs in growing their supporter base and subsequently their memberships, merchandise etc etc.

Look forward seeing you at the next ANZ Staduim match.

You are in the minority. The majority go to enjoy themselves. The NRL, S14, AFL etc and their constituent teams are not deities. They are here to entertain the public, not the other way around.

Homebush is not supporting NRL. It is bribing clubs to come to a defective, debt laden, political liability of a stadium to postpone the inevitable. ANZ is owed about 300M and is holding everyone else to ransom so that they can get their money back from a failed transaction.

I am shocked how Rugby League supporters go out of their way to not support this situation. It is only a positiive for our teams!

I for one don’t mind the view from side on at ANZ and I can live with the end on as I know it is for the betterment of my team by going there.

P.S. what is it with australian Rugby and stadiums as there are more grounds then teams plus the SFS and Concord are not shining example’s.

Couldn’t agree more mate, despite some mad decisions league continues to thrive and is the real sport of interest in NSW.

Despite the best efforts of the union types in the papers, the only time rugby ever gets any real interest in the press is when they sign a leaguie.

Bourbon Becs is just bitter her stunning career on the Footy Show never took off. Personally I wouldn’t worry yourself with someone who purely operates in gossip.

She not only bags the code at every turn with anti RL garbage and bigs up AFL in them whilst being Sydney papers, she quite often writes about player misbehavior’s with the drink and gossip that is no ones business, yet this same person has been done with drink driving on one or two different occasions.

What a hypocrite.

Now back to the discussion, why in the world didn’t the Sharks/ Dragons game get played in Wollongong?

It looked absolutely stupid out there at home bush with 65,000 empty seats, how you could have a local derby for two teams from the other side of Sydney is beyond me.

If Win wasn’t available as Shark park wasn’t, why not take it to the SFS, a proper RL stadium, it would’ve got a bigger crowd for a start and it would’ve looked a hellava lot better on TV.

RL, the greatest game, yet run by monkeys, the only reason it hasn’t died is because it’s a great bloody game, if we had a person running the game who actually cared about it and knew what they were doing, the code would blow all the others away in Australia.

Didn’t Kevin Rudd and the Labor Party just rip $10million back from the ARL & NRL? Isn’t Iemma and the NSW Labor government killing off Leagues Club left, right and centre? Labor and rugby league may have once been bosom buddies, but they sure as hell ain’t now.

Zavos wrote: “Since the days of Joynton Smith, Labor Lord Mayor of Sydney in the early days of rugby league and RL powerbroker for decades, the rugby league game has been the Labor Party at play. ”

According to his bio (heard of Google?) http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A110670b.htm he wasn’t Labor mayor at all, but an Independent “supported by Labor” to the position of Mayor of Sydney for just 12 months in 1918.

The rest of his political career looks like a non-event. The Wallabies matches of 1909 were 3 years before he entered state parliament. His Sydney Council alderman time was from 1916-1918. He was “never active there” in State parliament, which I presume means he didn’t propose or push anything.

Your statement asserts that he used his Lord Mayor position to do something positive for rugby league. Please name me one thing he did in 1916-1918 for rugby league when he was an alderman or mayor of Sydney. Just one item will do!

AFL and rugby at Subiaco Oval
all four codes at the MCG
AFL, rugby and football at Stadium Australia (or whatever it’s called)
Cricket and rugby at Adelaide Oval

This comes at the inevitable cost of the intangible ‘soul’ of the game, especially those needing a rectangular pitch. Rugby at Subiaco Oval is an awful viewing experience and there is not one Western Force member who does not desperately want a change of venue. Football (soccer) at the G is like watching fussball from the other side of the pub. Not sure I can see a solution on the horizon.

I’m not sure you read my whole article, and if you did you may have missed the point.

I know it makes financial sense for the clubs, although not strictly by numbers through the gate. But that is not the point of the article is, that the Stadium while financial is not giving the fans the enjoyment of a good atmosphere of a proper football ground.

Also, I disagree that following your team equates to zipping your mouth. I do follow my team, I do attend matches but I’ll buggered if I’ll agree with playing matches at a ground with zero atmosphere.

Finally, are you sure all AFL fans are happy to follow their team where ever they play? I can’t imagine North Melbourne fans were that happy about games being played in Sydney and Canberra because it made financial sense.

I can’t see positives at being a lemming blindly following every corporate decision made about a club and game I care about.

Jerry,

Yes brother, that very same ground.

I think it is worth noting that while plenty of union and football fans dislike the ground, the Swans fans I have spoken to also have no great love for it.

Part of it is also the fact that it is largely in the middle of nowhere and while at the SCG who can have your pick of about 30 bars within 15 minutes walk of the ground, Homebush has one, fairly grim establishment for a few beers pre and post game.

It also seems this ground is one thing supporters of all codes agree on.

AFL is played across the whole stadium surface and comes right up to the crowd, reducing the distance the crowd is from the game. Rugby and League don’t and hence are better suited to rectangular grounds where the crowd is close to the field perimeter. Simple really!!!

Still should send a shock wave just how close the gap has narrowed.

I am glad you went to all the trouble to rebut that small part of the article.

Jim C, look haow successful the AFL’s model is in regards to the G and the Dome. Yes different sports, but more importantly, different culture. AFL supporters support their sport and would watch it from the moon if they had to, because they believe in the ‘greater good’ of there sport and that far out weighs petty whinging over being an extra 20 metres away from the game.

All I am saying is, go to the game and support your team, no matter where it is. Otherwise it may not be around for you to support.

Week 1 NRL season

432,000 (NRL game 1 Sydney)
383,000 (Harry Cooper on 7 in Sydney)

Week 2 (Good Friday)

373,000 (NRL game 1 Sydney)
347,000 (Harry Cooper on 7 in Sydney)

Week 3

335,000 (NRL game 1 Sydney)
433,000 (Harry Cooper on 7 in Sydney)

Week 4

471,000 (NRL game 1 Sydney)
350,000 (Harry Cooper on 7 in Sydney)

Beaten once in four rounds.

I’ll give you the links to the ratings if you like.