Melbourne Victory: already the 8th biggest club in Melbourne
By Dave, 13 Apr 2008 The Crowd is a Roar Pro
773 Have your say
After only three seasons of operation, the Melbourne Victory are well on the way to establishing themselves as a dominant force within the AFL mad Melbourne sporting scene.
Not only are they the biggest of all the football clubs in Melbourne, they are easily bigger than the NRL team, the Melbourne Storm, who had a six year start and have made three Grand Finals in that time.
But l would argue they are also bigger than North Melbourne, Melbourne, and at least equal to the Western Bulldogs in the AFL, with St Kilda in their sights.
What do l mean by biggest?
Well, there are a number of criteria that could be used. But for the purposes of this article, l will use supporter numbers.
Melbourne Storm average around 11,000 a match at Olympic Park, and even when they’re at Telstra Dome with better facilities, they will struggle to achieve an attendance of 20,000. Remember, this is a team that has been in three Grand Finals, including the last two, and are widely acknowledged as the best team in the NRL over recent seasons.
They have superstars of league playing in their team, including those that are first choice for the State of Origin and the Kangaroos.
In the AFL, North Melbourne averaged home crowds of around 30,000 in 2007 when they finished in the top four.
This is a club with 100 years of history, and as recently as the 1990s, were the benchmark of the competition with several premierships.
They also claim to have 30,000 members in 2008.
I would argue that many of the ‘members’ in 2008 bought tickets out of sympathy and are not North Melbourne supporters.
Look at their attendance today against weak drawing Melbourne at the MCG in perfect weather on the traditional Saturday afternoon — 23,000. Victory had a bigger crowd on Wednesday night against a team who had about 100 supporters at the ground.
Two Melbourne clubs with 23,000 between them!
Look at any North home game against interstate teams or weak drawing Melbourne clubs and they will struggle to get 20-25,000.
Their average from last year and previous years is falsely inflated because 50-70% of support in those home games were from the big rival Melbourne AFL teams such as Essendon and Collingwood.
A couple of years ago they played Port Adelaide in a final at the Telstra Dome and only 25,000 rocked up, many from Adelaide.
Melbourne have been struggling over recent years on the field, and so their current support is below their normal average.
However, their home attendances are also falsely inflated by the massive away support of the big Melbourne AFL clubs who bring 50-70% of the crowd number to any one fixture.
Their memberships are very low in comparison to the big AFL teams. And over recent years, they have drawn less than 20,000 several times at the MCG and tend to try and sell their ‘home’ games against interstate teams such as the Brisbane Lions to the Gabba knowing the crowd numbers will be dismal at the ‘G’.
Melbourne Victory have a larger home average to Melbourne when comparing home games against teams from interstate (true support!)
The Western Bulldogs are doing very well on the field, and so the call against them is controversial, admittedly.
However, l again come back to games played by the Western Bulldogs at home against interstate opposition (that have limited away support) and would argue that the Melbourne Victory have a higher average (26,000 in 2007-8).
For example, in the first game in 2008, the Western Bulldogs drew around 25,000 versus Adelaide to the Telstra Dome, with several thousand Adelaide fans boosting the attendance and a Western Bulldogs star player playing his 300th game!
Their home game average is vastly inflated by games against the big AFL teams in Melbourne, as it is with the other two teams.
So what is the point of this article?
The Melbourne Victory in three years have surpassed, in terms of true supporter numbers at games, the Melbourne Storm and 3 Melbourne AFL teams who have had 100 years or so head start.
Therefore, despite all the recent controversy about the number of AFL teams in Melbourne and relocation, the conclusion is clear: Melbourne will lose two-three AFL teams within the foreseeable future. And, yes, the writing is clearly on the wall for North and Melbourne.
Melbourne will also have a second HAL team within that same time frame.
The NRL still have a lot of work to do to establish the code in Melbourne. What happens when the Storm stop winning and lose their best players?
And the ARU are nowhere to be seen!
‘The times, they are a changn’.
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Joe FC said | April 13th 2008 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Dave
No doubt the Victory have done very well in their short time although from a statistical perspective its not too hard to look good when you’re starting from zero ( but that should not take away from their impressive performance ). Aussie rules will always be the dominant code in Melbourne but football can continue to grow – though at a much slower rate than the first 3 years. The question of a 2nd HAL team in Melb has been much discussed on Roar – it seems inevitable but as to how that will impact on the Victory remains to be seen.
Dave said | April 13th 2008 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Joe FC
I know so many football people who don’t or wont go to Victory games because they dont like the coach, the ground, the style of play etc. I believe Victory need a close rival/derby game to stimulate more interest over a longer period. This needs to be done prudently but l believe the time is ripe in the next 2-3 years. It could represent the huge SE of Melb or go the other way out west to Geelong/Werribee. It could even be set up not to represent one region of Melbourne but all of Victoria? There needs to be a HAL game in Melbourne every week.
If Victory can increase or even maintain their impressive membership numbers on the back of their poor season it will be a major achievement equal to anything they have done on the field. I still believe they could do more at the grassroots/school level and a second club would help here also. Nothing gets the attention of kids like having the hero/player standing in front of them and talking to them.
Football Person 2 said | April 6th 2010 @ 10:26am | Report comment
The prophecy is fulfilled
Dogz R Barkn said | April 6th 2010 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Is the Victory the 8th biggest club in Melbourne?
I would have thought that it’s the biggest soccer club in Melbourne.
Joe FC said | April 13th 2008 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Dave
You mount a compelling case & I’m certainly not going to dispute it – all teams of all codes need their fierce rivals.
Midfielder said | April 13th 2008 @ 11:36am | Report comment
Interesting read and I hope you are right, seems to me there are four new teams coming within the next 2 to 3 years.
The big thing is where; here are my two possible answers.
New team Plan 1
Melbourne extra, GC, Townsville, Wollongong, this option needs to move Flying circus to Parramatta (centre of Sydney)
Plan 2
Melbourne extra, GC, Wollongong, Extra Sydney team—meaning Townsville wait untill teams 13 & 14.
The Substitute said | April 13th 2008 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
I have heard several AFL club presidents say that there are two teams too many in Melbourne. Go and compare the teams per capita of Perth and Adelaide (both AFL cities in their own right) with Melbourne and those claims will be backed up.
But no team is willing to relocate or merge. With west Sydney and the Gold Coast being taken by new teams, these clubs may have missed their chance. I guess Tasmania is always waiting in the wings…
As for the A-League, I hope the FFA pays as much attention to winning over Melbourne than they are to Sydney. Dave, you have pointed out the damage one team has done to the AFL, what would three teams do? The formula for winning over Melbourne is simple: a south-east Melbourne-based team to cover the eastern suburbs all the way to Gippsland, a Geelong-based team to cover Geelong and the western suburbs and then Victory can claim all the suburbs in between and maybe even all the way to Bendigo. (Not forgetting all their existing support).
I think a second Melbourne team would need to better engage with former NSL clubs like South Melbourne and Melbourne Knights, because their fans (like those who don’t like the coach/ground/style) are avoiding the Victory. Although it is a fine line because of all the history behind those clubs.
Jack said | February 25th 2010 @ 7:16pm | Report comment
Actually, if you look at the potential per capita market for Melbourne AFL clubs it works out to roughly 450,000 per club. Not far away from the 500 to 550,000 per club in Adelaide/Perth. Melbourne is also growing much faster than other cities, so that makes it the smart place to be for an AFL club.
By the way, the OP is grossly premature in claiming MV are larger than any AFL club, even piddling little North Melbourne. MV is a new club whose entire support base would be measured by its attendances and has not yet passed through the novelty phase. Neither has MV gone through a sustained period of failure like North Melbourne is currently experiencing, but it is worth noting that their crowds are falling even as they do relatively well. North Melbourne is an established club with generations of support spread out all across Australia, of which only a fraction would attend matches or become members. I have honestly never met a soccer supporter of any FFA club in my life, but I would have met hundreds of North Melbourne supporters outside a football context. It’s a bit like assuming you’re more popular than the Australian cricket team because nobody goes to one day games anymore. But really, if you guys need to believe soccers biggest club is the eighth (WOW!) biggest club in in Australia’s second biggest city, I guess that would make it about the 15th nationally, then don’t let me stop you.
I do find these infantile imperialistic fantasies and notions the existence of MV has ‘damaged’ an AFL club hilarious in the extreme though. Keep it coming.
The Substitute said | April 13th 2008 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Midfielder
I think plan 2 will probably eventuate, although I have no idea which regional teams will get up. If it is Wollongong, then the 13th and 14th teams should be Townsville and Geelong.
It would be good to see a Canberra or Tasmania get up, but that isn’t looking likely so far. Perhaps these smaller cities could be host to the youth league teams down the track. The Phoenix are looking to base a youth league team in Canberra. Under the Melbourne formula I just posted about, NYL from Victorian clubs could be based in Tassie, Bendigo, Ballarat or Gippsland. The new West Sydney team can play in either Penrith or Parramatta (whichever bid doesn’t get up in the real expansion). Townsville could play in Cairns. You get the idea…
The NYL could become an American-style minor league, similar to the NBA’s D-League. This method would further the reach of the A-League and make sure these second-tier cities/towns are not left out.
Dave said | April 13th 2008 @ 5:19pm | Report comment
Midfielder/Substitute
I don’t know enough about Wollongong to comment on the readiness for HAL. Have they aground that can hold 20-25,000 and is there any prospect of that size attendance, or at least an ave of 15-18,000?
Agreed 2nd teams in Syd and Melb a must within 2-3 yrs. What about playing 2nd Syd games at ANZ for trial with top tiers closed off? Could they possibly engage 25-30,000 people to come? Need to be very distinct from SFC to set up rivalry but not ethnic base.
My gut feelings are that followers of some of the former NSL sides in Melb are waiting to follow new team. Hope that it also doesn’t divide along ethnic lines. Must be seen to be cleanskins running the club with some football expertise in the background to support. Maybe that is one reason to have them based out in the burbs, east or west.
GC is a shoe in, with stadium already in place, for next season.
The vibes out of Nth Queensland are not good at the moment. Hope the parties can get together to sort it out otherwise boot them for now.
More investigation needs to be done in Tassie but if they are given a chance the whole population would get behind it. Facilities and sponsorships are the key issues there and HAL probably needs to be on very firm ground before taking the risk.
Melb and Syd desperately need the 2nd youth teams to satisfy huge numbers of Juniors into Youth/Seniors. May help stem some of the flow OS. Hundreds of thousands of players coming through with 11-12 positions in each city? Players will keep going in the sysytem if they have a realistic chance of making the grade. The youth teams could spread their games around the state but not sure if they would draw any crowds.
Who then to come in with GC next season? It is looking problematic.
In 10 years would like;
2 x Melb
1 x Geelong
2 x Syd
1 x Adel
1 x Perth
1 x CC
1 x New
1 x GC
1 x Bris
1 x Nth Queens
2 x either Woll, Canb, Tassie, 2nd team NZ
We need a comp that can sustain 12-14 teams with ave crowds of 20,000plus playing in stadiums they have rights to eg catering, advertising etc
Redb said | April 13th 2008 @ 5:57pm | Report comment
The Substitute,
It would be fair to say that Melbourne and North Melbourne have been lowly supported Melbourne AFL clubs well before Melb Victory came onto the scene. Victory plays in summer, any loss of support for those teams has little to do with Victory’s impressive record off the field. Soccer has always had large latent support in Melbourne, it just needed to rid itself of the ethnic tensions.
In time it may rival Collingwood or Essendon if the A League remains a one team one town in Melbourne. But obviously this would not be at the expense of the AFL, as the seasons are different and there is no reason why you could not be a member of an AFL club and the Victory – as some already are.
Redb
The Substitute said | April 13th 2008 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
Dave,
WIN Stadium in Wollongong has a 20,000-seat capacity although I wouldn’t call it the most modern stadium in the world. Your ten year prediction seems spot on btw.
Dave said | April 13th 2008 @ 6:43pm | Report comment
Redb
My point wasn’t to say Victory had caused the attendance issues for the 3 AFL teams mentioned, rather more to highlight how far Victory have come in a short time. As Joe FC states it has come off a zero starting point so anything was going to be an improvement. MV will need to work hard and get some important decisions right if they want to keep lifting their memberships and profile. It is still way too early for them to take the foot off the pedal. They have certainly not been the cause for any AFL team attendance problems and as you rightly point out they play in different seasons currently with some cross over of memberships..The other points being that due to their success FFA should be looking to bring a new team into Victoria to keep the momentum going (if the 2 Melb HAL teams are successfu then it might bite into some AFL advertising, sponsorships etc) and that NM and Melb have got very little time left (IMO 5 -8 years maybe) in the Melb market place unless big turnarounds occur. Not a good look on the box of playing in front of barely quarter full stadium! What about when Western Sydney come to play NM at the G or even TD??? Even with 2 new teams coming on board would think AFL comp will eventually settle back to 16 team comp. Interesting times ahead! At least you wont have to worry about the futue of Essendon who are almost on par with Collingwood as the biggest Melbourne team.