AFL: Australia is not enough

Footy Fan said  | April 21st 2008 @ 4:09pm | Report comment

The biggest problem is exposure.

The AFL should be aggressively marketing the game overseas. But not to expats - to the people who have never heard of our game. Something like the “I’d Like to See That” campaign which worked wonders in the 90s in Queensland.

People in NSW and QLD are now aware of the game, but hostile to it. Overseas on the other hand, it carries significant untapped novelty value and there is less of a stigma to battle. They are also vastly bigger markets in both population and dollar value.

Firstly I think that the AFL is underselling its TV rights. This year Ten HD snapped up the NFL and they thought they got a bargain. But where can you watch AFL in the USA ? On some obscure satellite channel. I can see a day when AFL is relegated to pay tv. Not because it is not popular, but just because it can’t compete against the monetary might of the NFL and FIFA when it comes to TV rights deals.

What is also needed is matches played overseas. Just one or two games a season in strategically identified countries, but not wishy washy NAB Cup matches, home and away fixtures. VFL matches like this in Japan and Canada in 1980s spawned an entire history of football which continues to this day. Imagine what a nationally branded league could do. The NFL sold out Wembley. We have a better product and we can’t even sell out the Oval to a bunch of expats.

Then there is the International Cup. The IFAF is an American Football event of the same age, which was hosted in Korea and sold its television rights. You have to pay even to sit in half empty stands at the qualifiers. They even have a token US college team. In contrast, our International Cup (what I think is a great concept) is always held in Melbourne, it is free, played during weekdays, doesn’t even make it onto TV and we aren’t even game to field an amateur team even though our best juniors take on South Africa every year just to get a minimum amount of AIS funding.

Other codes understand the meaning of globalisation. The AFL doesn’t care and it unfortunately shows. It would rather risk everything on a hostile market of 6 million than try its luck in a market of 6 billion. All it has to do is realise the potential and invest in its future.

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Al said  | April 21st 2008 @ 8:05pm | Report comment

EPL is way bigger than NFL throughout the world. The Super Bowl has an audience of around 90 million, of which only 7 million are outside the US. The Barclays Premier League would probably come close to reaching this figure weekly!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/11/06/sfnfro106.xml

This article states that an Arsenal/Man U game in late 2007 had an estimated worldwide audience of 1 billion. Whilst I dont beleive it to be that high, it clearly dwarfs the NFL.

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Dave said  | April 21st 2008 @ 9:40pm | Report comment

Truh Tah

EPL much bigger than NFL around the world. As stated by Al the NFL Superbowl has a TV audience of around 100 million of which over 90 million are in the states! NFL is the biigest game in the states but can’t think of anywhere else it is bigger than world football.

Foregetmenot
AFL should concentrate on trying to develop support in NSW and Queensland. If they can’t convince the people in those 2 states of the so called AFL greatness then what hope have they around the world. Should read Tony Jones, Ch 9 reporter, comments in The Age 20/4/08 in his column. After spending last week in Sydney he is convinced vast majority of peolpe there have no interest in AFL. This is the biggest city in Oz!

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The Link said  | April 22nd 2008 @ 9:17am | Report comment

RedB, Brisbane v Sydney v Melbourne on embracing other sports would make a better topic, with Melbourne coming a poor third, particularly if you compare the uptake of League in Melbourne vs uptake of AFL in Sydney / Brisbane

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The Link said  | April 22nd 2008 @ 10:37am | Report comment

RedB, not sure going nowhere in Sydney, probably more found its niche. The AFL has a genuine base in Sydney, League in Melbourne has a long way to go. Why this is would make interesting reading, particularly if we avoid the easy ‘AFL is just a better game’ cliche’s.

As always I don’t think there is a silver bullet to this, but in my view AFL popularity in Sydney definatley spiked during the Super League war and has stayed at a consistent level since the Swans have been winning. The true test for League in Melbourne will be with the new stadium built and a Storm side that consistently wins. If it can’t take off (relatively) after that then News will face some tough decisions in continuing to back the team. I’d suggest they already had a fair deal to do with Bellamy’s reappointment…..

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Towser said  | April 22nd 2008 @ 12:39pm | Report comment

Redb
” that once the world sees the game they’ll be automatic converts, its not like that. It is far more complicated, with generations/families involved in a code of football they have in built preferences and loyalties and yes, prejudices!”

Never a truer word spoken. As a dyed in the wool Association football fan that is the difficulty this century in trying to sell something new to a market that gathered a following in the middle of the century before last or the beginning of the last century.
Particularly if that sport has only grown locally(for whatever reason). Its the reason Aussie Rules still struggles to penetrate NSW & QLD,they have their local sport Rugby League. Why swop one local sport for another. Also the reason that Association Football has grown around the world. Because it seen as a World game and its threat can be overlooked because their is a bigger picture ie the prestige & benefits to the nation from winning major International tournaments.
Their is another factor that many overlook here re the appeal of the “Local” state sports in Australia(I’ll reach where I;m getting to shortly) . Since World War 2 vast numbers of migrants came here including myself from “Overseas” Football cultures.
It is fact that we have stood by our & the worlds version of football. Despite it being a lot easier and a lot less pain to follow RL or Aussie Rules(depending on the state) In fact so much so that the game is now in a healthy & progressive phase of development. The “Wog” era may have been divisive for many but it provided the catalyst for the sport to grow.
Now if migrants haven’t been won over in this case to “Australias own game”(won over & casual watching are totally different) having lived in a society with wall to wall media coverage of the sport(Southern States) how do you expect to penetrate the markets of the countries they migrated from where Association Football Is THE local sport. Transfer this local sport interest to the USA with its major sports or Canada with Ice Hockey etc and your pushing the proverbial up hill.
Also I dont think I’d be relying on ever increasing numbers of cricket ovals around the world to spread AFL.

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The Link said  | April 22nd 2008 @ 3:56pm | Report comment

Redb, it was the allignment of them both no doubt. The Swans would’ve received a boost from SL regardless in my view. It was just bigger due to Plugger and the strong team. The Storm have a much more successful side now than the Swans in the mid 90’s, yet no shakeup of the dominant code to assist.

Cheers

The Link

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Forgetmenot said  | April 22nd 2008 @ 7:53pm | Report comment

Thanks for the good wishes Adrian Stoop.

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John Ryan said  | April 22nd 2008 @ 11:53pm | Report comment

Yes poor old Adrian he may actually be able to think for himself,unlike the group think in AFL land

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Michael C said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 10:15am | Report comment

Norm -

you said : “The overseas participation in AFL is in direct correlation to the overseas interest in AFL.”

One might suggest, in the main, that that is also a function of the overseas exposure. And, where interest is generated - the other function is over availability of appropriate venues and capacity to establish and sustain clubs - - which, in the pre-internet/satellite tv generation was severely limited.

It’s a new world now. And, the AFL has to a large degree been caught out by the growth - - and certainly by such standards - in some places, it’s been rapid growth (let’s forget more international game standards - as, by the standards relating to Aust Footy - obviously, there is only, thus far, one ’supporting’ nation, one ’supporting’ elite competition - - that makes the standards relating to Aust Footy rather different to most other codes - - RL for example has a NH and SH elite competition - - that’s a great advantage in supporting disparate growth around the globe).

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Michael C said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 11:02am | Report comment

Adrian Stoop -

for your benefit the example of my ‘homeland’ - Denmark. I’ve highlighted a couple of key points, and also - - a reminder, that a country like Denmark, much loving the game of ‘handball’, and to a degree ’soccer’ (when they manage to qualify - because, strangely enough, it doesn’t ‘grip’ the nation ALL the time - but they still remember fondly to Euro’92) - - Aust Footy is the perfect fit combining skills of soccer and handball. And with an Australian princess - what better country to be in. NOte however, it’s not just the last couple of years - - the grass roots have been building since the very early ’90s, and now, the predominantly local competition (i.e. stuff all ex-pats), including juniors - is central to mainland Euro footy.

Danes bring handball precision to International Cup
Author: Chelsea Roffey
11:33 AM Thu 17 April, 2008 (off AFL.com.au)

MOST people in Denmark have never heard of Australian football, but their national team, the Vikings, have a secret weapon that has helped them master the sport.

The Danes have perfected the precision handpass that is a feature of their indigenous game, European handball, translating their smooth skills into the free-flowing code from Down Under.

AFL Denmark’s Niels Schønnemann-Rosberg, a 100-game player for the Copenhagen Barracudas, said the quick handpass was an advantage for the Vikings, but had its drawbacks when taken into football.

“The one-two combination is used widely in many Danish sports,” he said.

“It’s not uncommon to see a player in his first game handpass rather than kick the footy, which at times can be frustating when their kick is actually a better safer option than their handball precision skills.”

But in a nation where most people think Australian football is a version of rugby or gridiron, and is considered a violent sport, the Vikings’ greatest challenge has been promoting the game to their countrymen.

“Generally we try to explain it as a bigger version of soccer, where you dont pass the ball on the ground, but run or kick to each other,” Schønnemann-Rosberg said.

“Many are surprised when they are informed about the forwards, midfielders and defence, which is similar to soccer. But we also tell them it’s a much faster game.”

The Vikings were born in 1992 when they played the North London Lions, an established team that taught the Danes much about their adopted game. The Danes played (and lost) their first official international match against England two years later.

Since then, Denmark has evolved a successful competition. With around eight out of every ten players in the seven-team league being Danish nationals, the country has a small but strong base of players eligible to for the International Cup.

The team last competed in Australia in 2002, finishing fourth behind Ireland, Papua New Guinea and New Zealand – three teams with strong football traditions.

The Vikings have rivalled the Swedes for years, developing what Schønnemann-Rosberg describes as an icy relationship shaped by hundreds of years of wars between the countries.

“Sweden has improved, but the Vikings still need to prove we are Nordic champions at least, so we will try to give them a good football lesson in our training match against them in May,” he said.

“England has proven hard to beat last year, and they are regarded as the strongest team in Europe now. We certainly know that we have a good chance of beating them, so we would expect an even game.”

Note - the Vikings - the national team - is locals only, as are all the 15-18 teams that may (will) be in Aust in August for the IC 2008.
Note - any sport that develops around neighbouring nations with existing rivalries has potential to grow. Denmark vs Sweded vs Germany is a tri-nations rivalry that will continue to grow. The Battle of Britain games across the channel, and the Irish vs Poms, likewise, the US vs Canada etc.
In the past, teams were generally single city, really just totally social - rarely played ’seasons’, came and went with individuals. However now, there are leagues and associations - there’s some infrastructure and history being created.

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Towser said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 11:28am | Report comment

Michael C

Know of the Carlton/Collingwood attachment in particular Carlton personally. Its difficult to escape generalisation as migrants and experience is a broad subject.
But I stand by the On balance position re the growth of Association Football and migrant influence using it as an example of the difficulties of any new sport to penetrate long estabilished markets in other countries.

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Redb said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 12:04pm | Report comment

Millster,

I think most agree that it is unique to Australia and should be celebrated as such. In the first instance the game needs to keep growing around the country first , anything overseas is a bonus but it doesn’t hurt to nurture here and there. South Africa’s north-west province is an example.

The Canadian juniors is interesting for the code.

Redb

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Michael C said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 12:41pm | Report comment

re the original article question stated in the last paragraph - -

Q - “There are many other ways that football can develop going into the future. These are only a few. What should the AFL, and the various international bodies do in to the future?”

A -

junior international cup - - absolute must. Each nation should be able to access reasonable ‘home’ govt funding for international junior competition - - certainly, the AFL via AIS etc knows the value of junior international competition.

junior IC would allow kids who have ‘discovered’ the game via school or playing a short summer season or whatever to have a real crack and be potentially exposed to talent scouts.

Every 2 years?? Sponsorship for such is critical - - and maybe some Rudd govt handouts……..(easier said than done if not using a spherical ball).

AFL needs to support/encourage overseas - decent and regular contests - lessening travel burdon.

Establish a semi-pro league in the US/Canada and one in Europe/Britain - - even if just a 6 round ’superleague’ - that can be pitched to pay tv and sponsors and feature the best available talent. Something relatively short, sweet - not overly taxing on relative amateurs - thus allowing per match payments to perhaps be reasonable even if the aggregate amount isn’t huge.

AFL needs to really target areas with hotspot junior programs - - for exhibition matches and training camps etc.

AFL needs to encourage more ‘9s’ tournaments, encouraging Aust ’social teams’ to head overseas for ‘footy tours’. Already, the Convicts run great full squad ‘footy tours’.

Greater encouragement in general of sister club and league relationships.

Encouragement for more junior international reciprocal visits such as between Geelong College and Farum (Denmark).

An example being :
Last year, the DAFL GF, a week later, everyone crams into a Copenhagen pub to watch the AFL GF live, then, off to Landskrona, Sweden for a full scale international.
the annual Farum Cup junior lightning premiership was held in Farum on Sunday. This year the competition benefited from the participation of the visiting Geelong College team who had played a junior Scandinavian side as a curtain raiser to the DAFL Grand Final the week before.
In the mini age group for boys and girls under 13, the tournament was enhanced by the entry of a junior North Copenhagen Barracudas team who joined usual Danish clubs Farum and Slagslunde, and Malmö and Landskrona from Sweden. The arrival of the Cudas not only made the tournament more interesting, but also gave it a new winner as they stole the show from Farum who finished second.

Following the minis, there was a three way junior tournament for under-15s between the Cats, Magpies and Bulldogs. Boys and girls from all over the region and Geelong College were divided up into even groups for full-field matches, which ended with the Cats defeating the Bulldogs in the final.

btw - Denmark defeated Sweden by 15 pts in wet conditions in a tight encounter.

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Towser said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 1:21pm | Report comment

Millster Redb

No sport can emulate football. Having grown up in a place that contributed much to the world game I have no real explanation for its growth. I’ve seen many reasons produced for it but non that really explain it. Nevertheless it is fact.
Like yourself Millster I dont understand why fans of AFL need it to grow Internationally. In fact it seems to go against the majority view(from AFL fans) of what I have heard over time that the local rivalries developed in the sport over 150 years are sufficient.
If I had continued to live in Sheffield I would have like my relatives still do follow The English Football Leagues in particular the 2 Sheffield clubs. International football would be there as an outlet to pour out National pride but if it wasn’t I doubt whether the average Sheffielder/Scouse /Geordie would care as long as they beat other clubs in the English Leagues.
LIke Millster I dont know how many times I will have to reiterate that the unique conditions 100 and odd years ago that created the particular enviroment for the mass sport watching spectator enviroment cannot be repeated in todays hi tech instant communication orientated society. You may see other sports and dabble as per Millster with Baseball, but the Generation/Families/Preferences/Loyalties/Prejudices bond as per Redb’s quote is a pretty solid combination.
You tell me that AFL is better than Football you insult 4 generations of my family the friends and city I grew up in the football team I followed since birth. The reverse applies to AFL fans and their attachments. Although I obviously had no prejudices against AFL we did against Rugby league. Regarding it as the “Puddings” (local derogatory jargon for hicks from country Yorkshire) game, a sport for lumpy lads who didn’t have the sublime foot skills of Association football. That fact as I later realised as a teenager was completely knocked on the head when I played against these same lumpy “Sheffield” lads.Steelworkers and miners in the local leagues and realised that the Silky footed game of Danny Blanchflower(great player for Tottenham at the time) bore little resemblance to tackling a 16 stone miner who probably ate skinny teenagers legs for breakfast.
Many would have been better up the road at Dewsbury(RL) but tradition, heritage prevailed and the prejudices get passed down from generation to generation.
No harm at all Redb in nurturing your game here and there but of the 2 questions asked in this article the second is the go.
As it stands now the domestic sports market in Australia is becoming more rather than less competitive . Take your eyes off the ball at home and concentrate on a “glued on ” overseas sports market with massive costs involved you lose the plot.

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Redb said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 1:59pm | Report comment

Towser,

One of the reasons I mentioned South Africa’s northwest province is that there is no embedded football code culture there. Its virgin territory for anyone willing to take a sport to the masses.

I think the AFL is pursuing 95% expand the game in Australia policy, 5% overseas.

The salient point missed is the growth overseas in ten years. In the US from nothing to over 50 teams, this almost entirely has been organic without any support from the AFL until the last year or two and then just minor support.

It would be irresponsible as custodians of the game for the AFL to ignore overseas leagues entirely, the International Cup is recognition of that responsibility.

Redb

Redb

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Redb said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 2:53pm | Report comment

Andrew Kacimaiwai - well good for you.

Your comments re TV coverage:

“I am very angry that up here we have to put up with overload of a sport on both networks that the vast majority of us either don’t care about or just hate”

then in the next sentence,

“You should listen to some of the comments of AFL supporters who turn up to a sports pub up here expecting to see, say, Collingwood vs Essendon only to express dismay that the NRL is on line and that they can’t expect to see their game until closer to midnight! (Welcome to Sydney)”

So which is it- saturation coverage or games on at midnight?

Arrogance perception is interesting. What are you and your type scared of? Why even comment if you have no interest.

Build a bridge…

Redb

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Towser said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 3:28pm | Report comment

Ben Buckley in an interview recently targeted West Sydney, Melbourne, Gold Coast, Nth QLD as expansion areas for the A-League. Interesting thing was that this was in the order of importance he placed on these particular areas so West Sydney was regarded as a key area. Having an AFL background I’m sure from his days there he had knowledge that this area was very important for any sport with true National aspirations.

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Michael C said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 3:43pm | Report comment

Towser -

don’t you think there’s an inconsistancy though given that - should West Sydney and 2 QLD teams be a priority along with a 2nd Melb, that - effectively we’d see thus for a 12 team expanded comp:

3 * QLD
4 * NSW
1 * NZ

2 * Vic
1 * SA
1 * WA

0 * ACT
0 * TAS

———-
just how does 7 of 12 go into NSW & QLD, 1 from NZ, and only 4 from the other 50% of the country? That’ll be a model for disinterest within 50% of the country - - oh, perhaps a couple of ‘local derbies’ in Melbourne….but, a West Sydney team & a 2nd Melb team will dilute the value of MVFC vs SFC type grudge match.

Maybe Buckley is also just trying to stir the pot a little…the FFA defering the to recent licences indicates an unspoken wariness of going too fast before profitability is achieved, the 2nd tier has to be run successfully first. The talent pool has to be increased and deepened a tad, I reckon the lack of real crowd growth in Sydney, Brisbane and Melb and the going backwards in Perth and stagnation in Adelaide might be forcing a consolidation period. However - the earlier claytons announcements of licence bids stirred up a little bit of publicity for a week or two.

———–

We often hear about the AFL only having 2 teams for 50% of the country. The NRL has effectively 1 team for 50% of the country. The HAL and FFA have the chance to develop the divine design ….. and seem intent upon creating a competition directly competing with the NRL for footprint - - and that’s where I ponder the wisdom of those who Neville Chamberlain like wave the paper in the air saying that the NRL and soccer can work hand in glove……..the obvious point being that by the time of a 12 team comp - - over what, perhaps 33 weeks plus finals (or not?) compared to the existing 21 round draw - -the overlap will no longer be ‘off-season’ and venue sharing will become a major pain.

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Realist said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 3:47pm | Report comment

RedB you’ve missed the point, the saturation coverage spoken of is from 7 and 10, the game is replayed on Fox closer to midnight, the visitors to the Sydney pub are unable to watch the afl because there is a Rugby League game on at the same time and is the preferred viewing choice of the majority of patrons.

The arrogance angle comes on the back of a flood of coverage being thrown at us when it simply does not rate, the insistence that Western Sydney is a market waiting to be tapped by afl - we’re quite happy with our code of choice thank you, the ads you may think are funny just don’t carry any weight up here either - they smack of arrogance once again.

Michael C is pretty typical of an AwFuL supporters attitude, carried through to the brink of insanity admittedly, but there is that same air of self importance about the game everywhere, maybe it has something to do with the fact that the admin actually pay for ads masquerading as articles with the “favourable coverage” contracts that only came to light in the wake of the C7 court case. In fact as far as I am aware they are the only sporting league to do so, indeed such deals are actually illegal in America and I see a correlation between them and the “cash for comment” radio controversy.

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Andrew Kacimaiwai said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 4:13pm | Report comment

Redb, AFL was “hidden” on Foxfooty because the powers-that-be thought there was a big enough market to sustain an AFL channel. (How did that venture turn out, by the way?)
The fact that AFL is on Fox 1 now and NRL on Fox 3 (premium) is an indication that Fox is trying to recoup all the money it spent on AFL coverage from up north (I believe this is called income diversification) by getting NRL fans to pay up!
The Super 14 is available ONLY on Fox Sports. Not having Fox at home (belt tightening),I have to rely on watching my team at the local pub!
As for your your reference to the Celtic Club: I don’t get it. But then I don’t get to Melbourne enough to understand! Neither am I a Wallaby “fly in” (or does twice in four years count?).
But I am a long-term migrant, raised on a sport that had international legs (first soccer then rugby union). From a non-Australian point of view, it is something novel and uniquely Australian. I went down to an AFl game a few years ago to give it a try — I was more excited about grabbing the next beer then about what was going on the field (although the grandmother sitting next to me had enough passion for the both of us).
Sydney is a big market; there are plenty of things to capture your interest. AFL will find its niche here (like rugby union and league has in Victoria). It’s big enough for a second team; just don’t expect the city to go ga-ga over it.

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Redb said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 4:31pm | Report comment

AK,

You’ve attributed some comments to me that i didnt make, but that’s ok, like most of your rant its full of inaccuracies or irrelevant comment. I don’t care whether you individually like AFL or not, doesn;’t change in the slightest my love of the game, just reinforces my view that RL fans are bitter about the AFL in NSW and QLD, where as I said we dont give a stuff about rugby league in Victoria. I do actually like rugby union and would love a Melbourne Super 14 team - so use your influence and make it happen eh?

re Fox coverage - it is a fact that RL has been a fox product for years ,hence, the by far greater pay TV penetration in Sydney than elsewhere in the country. If you don’t beleive me- google away. Fox Footy didn’t survive becuase Fox did not get the take up it required in the traditional AFL states, this is primarily due to the AFL’s TV deal offered the best games to free to air - fact! .

Interestingly since the demise of Fox Footy, Fox have negotiated a better deal with the AFL for 4 live games a week, albeit again these are not the best games.

So again, we come to the perceived arrogance. I suggest that apart from a checkup with your shrink you just plainignore it, its Ok.

Redb

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Redb said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 4:41pm | Report comment

Towser,

I think Australian’s love of sport is unique. Some might say it should be better directed to the arts, culture, but we are not Europe or Asia.

10 years is way too soon in my opinion for any major shifts. In 10 years it is likely that the AFL will have grown in NSW and QLD at steady pace, RL grown a small amount in in Victoria, soccer will grow the most but from a small base (I’m talking TV and spectators - mainstream sport nationally) and union will grow in WA.

Redb

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Realist said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 4:45pm | Report comment

Micahel C, hypocrisy is a curse

Please tell me if this is not you:

“Rugby league is supported by chavs, meatheads and rejects.”

“you meatheads are so worried about the future of your stupid little game”

“Rugby League.

Stupid game, played by stupid people, watch by stupid fans.

End of story. ”

Or was that another Michael Clarke, international AFL high priest?

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John Ryan said  | April 23rd 2008 @ 7:33pm | Report comment

Hey Midfielder, did not the other member of the AFL daisy chain tell you not to mention the cash for comment,your a bad man and thus will invite the full scorn of Michael C,another 50 paragraphs about how AFL is a shineing example to us all, and they have just founded the Chinese AFL,
His mate will tell you that NEWs LTd gives the Storm acres of free press in Melbourne,that all NRL supporters are nasy evil people Blah blah Blah.
Realist I have a feeling that there is more than a grain of truth(something the AFL and it supporters on here have severe problems with) in what you say.
Otherwise life in AFL land carries on as per usual

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