By Jesse Fink
June 6th 2008 @ 1:38am
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Forget ‘green’ football, pick Nicky Carle
My good friend Pino Paonessa, who runs the excellent East Sydney cafe Latteria with his brother Tommy and mate Vito, is a typical football tragic with a difference: he holds an FFA coaching licence.
During the week he was invited out to the lecture room at Football NSW’s Valentine Park headquarters at Parklea to hear a review of the recently convened FFA National Coaching Conference held at Homebush.
An impressive array of talent had been assembled for the two-day pow wow: Jurgen Klinsmann, Jean-Michel Benezet, Erich Rutemöller and Josef Venglos, among others.
It was a nice gesture by Football NSW to invite the mums and dads of Australian coaching out west and put on this free night for those who couldn’t afford – or weren’t invited – to Homebush.
However Pino, who coaches under-15s Bankstown Sports Strikers, didn’t come away from the evening particularly impressed with the philosophies espoused by this football think-tank. It was all stats and figures, he told me. Eugenics sort of stuff: height, weight, leap, ability to cover X amount of metres in ten seconds, blah blah blah.
Football today, he was told, was all about set play, rigid structure, and crossing the ball; a lot of goals were scored early in games when teams weren’t properly “organised”.
But Pino wasn’t having any of it.
What about Argentina? He said. What about Lionel Messi? The guy was the size of Tattoo from Fantasy Island and played the game by running straight at players.
His football was about finesse, about dribbling, about unlocking with skill the elaborate codes that master coaches had transferred from the whiteboard to the pitch.
It was time, he told me, for Australian coaches - all coaches - to stop being so cerebral and analytical and put on a pedestal the thing that makes good footballers great: imagination.
Of course, this was manna from heaven to this writer. I’m a big believer in art over craft and for a long time have been promoting the cause of Nicky Carle, whom I believe is the most gifted attacking player we have in this country.
Technically he is a class apart from anyone else, except for perhaps Harry Kewell when he is at his best, glimpses of which we saw last Sunday in the World Cup qualifier against Iraq in Brisbane.
Kewell had a wonderful game and was the difference between the two sides. But imagine what we could have done had we managed to fit Kewell and Carle on the pitch. Australia would have been lethal.
But Pim Verbeek is still reading from the Graham Arnold coaching manual and not picking Carle.
I had the opportunity a few weeks ago to ask Verbeek about Carle and got something akin to Arnold’s defence: that Carle didn’t put in enough effort tracking back; that he had to be more mobile across the pitch, going backwards and forwards.
All of which may be true, who am I to doubt Verbeek. But isn’t it possible for an Australia side just to make a concession for god-given talent when it’s in our midst?
Instead, since the era of Guus Hiddink, we’ve followed a more analytical path: calling up young, fit players who can adhere to systems, who can run all day and not drop, and who will blindly follow the coach’s gospel. A player such as Luke Wilkshire is the prototype. He came to prominence under Hiddink, kept his place under Arnold, and is now a key figure in Verbeek’s Socceroos. Others are Jason Culina, Brett Emerton and now David Carney.
Physical stamina is their strength, not creativity.
And it is creativity that Australia, under Verbeek, sorely lacks. Outside of Kewell and Mark Bresciano, there are no players in the side who you sense have that unteachable quality to pull out something game breaking, something special, at any time.
Carle is that kind of player.
And in my opinion we will need him this weekend in Dubai for the second leg of the Iraq showdown.
We’ve tried aerial tactics before in the Middle East, with little success, and I’m not sure that just pegging balls in the direction of Josh Kennedy and praying for the best is necessarily the best way to go.
Graham Arnold tried so-called “green football” twice – in Kuwait City in 2006 and Bangkok in 2007 - and found it desperately wanting both times, the last occasion against our opponents this weekend, Iraq.
The Iraqis aren’t midgets, so the lanky, slippery Kennedy isn’t going to have the same advantage he exploited against the Qataris in May. He will be hustled and grappled and most likely neutralised by the Iraqi defenders.
The key, I believe, is putting on a player who has the ability to do something extraordinary in a very constricted space, and there are only three players who can do that for Australia: Kewell, Bresciano and Carle.
If Australia wants to come away with a result in Dubai, starting Carle alongside Bresciano, behind a strike partnership of Kennedy/Kewell and McDonald/Kewell, for instance, would be a very aggressive but positive move.
But, like so many times in the past, I feel like I’m screaming into a deep, deep canyon and no one is listening. Maybe with Roar readers we can start a hell of a racket.
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(58)
Spiro Zavos said | June 6th 2008 @ 8:39am | Report comment
What Jesse is talking about is the shape of the national side. And this is a crucial point in selection. A strong football side needs a strong defensive system and pattern by the very nature of the game with scoring relatively difficult. The ‘easiest’ way not to lose is not to concede goals. But this difficulty of scoring needs to be balanced by having players who can get goals or set them up for the team. For the ’surestr’ way of winning is to score goals. I find Jesse’s analysis very compelling and will watch with interest to see how the defensive game goes against the Iraqis..
Dickroo of Blacktown said | June 6th 2008 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Study the strategy Rob Bann used against Nigeria, Pim.
Carl should at least give 35 minutes run to replace Bresciano if he can’t be started.
I found Bresciano’s first touch was not great and his “creative” passes gave away too many possessions.
But Carl hasn’t found the back of net for a long while.
I don’t think Pim has the view/ball to drop Bresciano on the bench and start Carl. He needs Bresciano’s goal scoring ability/form.
Millster said | June 6th 2008 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Jesse - having religiously followed your posts for over 18 months now I’m salivating at the thought of an Australian team with Carle in the centre, supported by a Bresh, a Grella, or a Culina and feeding a forwardline that includes a fit Cahill and a Kewell in the kind of form that he showed last weekend (I’m glad that you gave him credit for what was a totally splendid game).
I wish we could sort out our defence as that would give us the luxury to select players such as Carle with more confidence in the centre of midfield rather than having to opt for at least one modfield ’stopper’ to cover the centre-backs.
That said, do you think you’re being a little harsh on Emmo and on Carney? I agree 100% with your views in relation to Wilkshire, Beauchamp, Holman etc. But, without saying they are perfect, to call Emmo and Carney all stamina and no art is I think going a little far.
I hope we get the 3 points in the bag this weekend. Maybe then you’ll get your dream as Verbeek will feel like he can test out some other players. Carle may well be at the centre of defence feeding Djite and one of Kewell or MacDonald in Sydney against China. I’d pay to see that….
Mick of Newie said | June 6th 2008 @ 10:08am | Report comment
I agree but you know Pim is no visionary. He will pick Arnie’s specials and scrape a point either his week or against Qatar to get through. His real test will come in the next stage when he has to go to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Japan or Korea.
Interesting to watch Nick play the recent playoff semi for Bristol. Everytime his team had a throw in Nick just jogged up the park so the fullback could heave it down the line. It saddenned me because when he was at the Jets he received every throw in, always under pressure, always got it on the deck and did something with it. Look at his 30 minute cameo against Argentina (the rebona game) and there he was demanding the ball, getting it on the deck and looking to do something with it.
The real tragedy will be if Nick who is so keen to play for the Roos and please his club and national coach, makes himself into one of the robots and then in the great irony he then starts to get picked.
Mick of Newie said | June 6th 2008 @ 10:23am | Report comment
correction, as your photo clearly shows the “rebona” was against Uruguay.
Sorry to double post but one thing I don’t get is why when you are away from home playing in oppresive conditions the game plan appears to be to play long ball to a lone striker.
The result of long ball is you give up possession and have to work so much harder defending thus brining the conditions more into play.
If survival is the goal I would argue your best chance is to pick those players who can retain possession and thus deny the opposition possession.
I am resigned to Carle not playing but it is alarming that it appears that Bresciano is seen as the next most dispensible.
Midfielder said | June 6th 2008 @ 10:42am | Report comment
The side can only have some many attacking mids, if Harry is in, it leaves, Timmy C, Bresh & Nick, well Timmy is out. So its a choice between Bresh & Nick, IMO Bresh is better.
NUFCMVFC said | June 6th 2008 @ 10:43am | Report comment
I was pissed off When Holman came on, knew it was the Arnold influence coming out, give Nicky a run, if not starting then at least at some point
Glad to see Kennedy back, he will ony get about 20 mins though
NUFCMVFC said | June 6th 2008 @ 10:45am | Report comment
But it is all about circumstances remember, we are looking to play defensively, and Iraq will have to come at us, so we have to prepare with that in mind
If he doesen’t get a run out in these two games, hopefully against China when we have it sewn up or something
Slippery Jim said | June 6th 2008 @ 11:03am | Report comment
“the most gifted attacking player we have”
What??? How is that possible - he hasn’t scored even once for his club. The last I heard attacking players scored goals. I know I sound like a broken record, but that hasn’t stopped you either Jesse coming up with the same old head in the clouds stuff. I would have thought Tim Cahill, when fit would be our most dangerous attacking platyer, especially in tight areas (witness his overhead goal against Chelsea) or based on current club form, 30 goal a season Macca. National coaches pick players on form not fast-fading provincial accomplishments from years ago. As for the photo, it almost looks like he pulled it off! A more accurate picture would be one taken half a second later when he was flat on his arse and the ball out of touch.
Salvation said | June 6th 2008 @ 11:36am | Report comment
I can’t believe after all Nick Carle has done, and is doing, we have plenty of time and patience for Holman, plenty of low expectations for Wilkshire, and plenty of respect for Culina. Nick…. go to the erevidse!!!
Mick of Newie said | June 6th 2008 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
Slippery Jim, the real debate is more about how we play not the individuals. Cahill is a wonderful talent with an eye for goal who has delivered for club and country. His goal against Chelsea was pure opportunism executed superbly. McDonald is clealry a talent but for all his SPL achievements he may never cut it with the national team because international football is not like the SPL. The roos don’t play like Celtic or Motherwell and Iraq and Japan don’t defend like Hibs or Inverness Caledonian Thistle.
Carle’s achievements may be provincial but look at his game against Nigeria, or his cameos against Argentina and Uruguay and I would suggest he deserves another opportunity to show his wares. He does put his foot on the ball and tries to play to feet. When the Roos are under the pump these are skills that some of our players struggle with.
Rob Humphreys said | June 6th 2008 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
I agree with Mick of Newie - knocking long balls, and thus surrendering possession, surely is not the best way to go in hot/humid conditions.
If there was ever a game to play the one Australian midfielder comfortable with the ball at his feet, then surely it is this one.
I would not be unhappy to see Bresciano dropped to make way for Carle either. He has had a stop/start season over in Italy, and was on the bench for the latter part. Carle is in absolute tip-top condition after three very tough play-off games in the last month.
With regard to Verbeek’s criticisms re tracking back, covering the park etc, I hope he watched Bristol City’s play-off games. Carle was everywhere, seemingly covering every blade of grass between the two penalty boxes. He combined this with barely a missed pass over three high pressure games, and was showered with praise and high ratings by BC fans.
Get him in there Pim!
Rosco said | June 6th 2008 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
Agree that the time is right to give Carle a go. Lets see if Pim has some faith in him.
Can someone tell me why Garcia & Bosnar have been totally overlooked in this squad?
Slippery Jim said | June 6th 2008 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Mick of Newie, read the article again. “Pick Nicky Carle” - the debate is clearly about Nick Carle, and not about the Socceroos as a whole. He has never scored for the Socceroos, and the few minutes he has played instill me with less confidence than his old performances for the Jets. Those saying we should drop Bresc for Carle are clueless.
Rob Humphreys said | June 6th 2008 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Slippery - an attacking midfielder does not have to have the goal output of a Gerrard or Lampard to be effective.
I think what Jesse is saying is that NC’s vision and passing game, and comfort in possession, could be very useful in both breaking down the Iraqi defence, and also helping Aus to keep hold of the ball (meaning players have to expend less energy).
He is never going to have the massive goal output of the two players mentioned above, but is more of an architect type midfielder, like a Xavi or Fabregas, ie he creates space and opportunities for the players in front of him.
Mick of Newie said | June 6th 2008 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Jim, the heading says pick Nick Carle, the article like Jess’s long history of Carle articles is about how we play or more to the point how the auther thinks we should play.
If we are going to judge players on goal scored why are we wasting our time with McDonald (0 from 7 games) Culina (1 from 30), Grella (0 from 34) or Holman (1 from 14).
Kazama said | June 6th 2008 @ 2:44pm | Report comment
At the moment I am inclined to agree with Mick of Newie’s assessment of Scott McDonald. You are quite right Mick - Iraq isn’t anything like an SPL side. I wonder though how different Scott’s game against Iraq would have been had he been getting some service from someone who understands how to use strikers to unlock defenses, say Nick Carle, instead of being completely ignored by players who seem clueless about how to get the ball into the back of the net.
I remember the first time I saw Nicky play - it was a match between Marconi and Brisbane Strikers. Nicky was the difference between the two sides that night, and frankly also the difference between me enjoying the match and being bored to death for 90 minutes. It was like I was watching 19 guys running around pointlessly while one guy with flair, skill and brilliance ran the whole show and indeed scored the only goal. Nick Carle is one of the very, very few players representing Australia with the ablility to make a chance anytime he has the ball, so IMO we should be giving him every opportunity to play in a side that is becoming increasingly incapable of mounting an intelligent attack on goal. It might also be handy to have him on the pitch to rescue us once the football gods stop smiling on our defenders and we (deservedly) begin conceding goals.
Slippery Jim said | June 6th 2008 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
Mick of Newie, hey I’m no fan of Holman either, Mick of Newie, but this discussion is about Nick Carle. Our newfound strength since Guus has been patient, smart possession, and this will be vital against Iraq away. The photo above gives clear evidence that Carle is not suited to a smart possesion game. He takes chances, he makes wrong decisions in crucial situations (such as giving away penalties for his club) and he does not make the simple, effective pass that can win the game. On top of that he is not in form, and does not track back enough for what will need to be a conservative game. The simple truth is, we have a strength in midfield for Australia. If Carle had been a full back or wing back, or even a striker he would have more chance to get in the first team. As it is, there are far better options available for Australia.
Greg Russell said | June 6th 2008 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
Jesse, first let me say that I am a big fan of your work for The Roar.
By geographic necessity - I have lived in NZ for nearly 15 years - I watch far more rugby these days than football, but before that I did cut my teeth on football during 3 years of living in Germany. (Incidentally, I can thoroughly recommend football telecasts as a superb way to learn a new language).
I want to pick up on your comment that “a lot of goals were scored early in games when teams weren’t properly “organised”.” There is a myth in rugby that substitutes late in a game can make a big difference. The theory just doesn’t work because everyone else is too tired and disorganized by then, and games lack enough structure for tries to be scored. Anyone who doubts this should just look at the last few weeks of Super 14, e.g. all 3 tries in the Crusaders-NSW final were scored in the first half.
Anyway, I have long suspected that similar holds in football. Your throwaway line seems to confirm this. Therefore my recommendation to Pim for this weekend is to play Kennedy for the first 30 minutes rather than the last 30, which is reports are saying he intends to do. After all, with Kennedy running riot, all 3 of Australia’s goals against Qatar were scored in the first 33 minutes.
Slippery Jim said | June 6th 2008 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Holy cow, Kazama, it is par for the course for Nickyophiles to bleat on about how Carle’s Johnny Warren medal makes him the best player in Australian history, or reminisce endlessly about his sublime skills during his Jets playing days, but to have to dredge up his from at Marconi merely shows up the dearth of recent examples of Carle’s alleged skill. Next we’ll be hearing how your friend’s friend used to play against him at Fairfield in high school and he was the bee’s knees or some such drivel. Why do you think national coaches go to matches? To gauge current form. If they picked the squad on past form they would merely need a couple of dusty history books and a pencil and paper…
Slippery Jim said | June 6th 2008 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
“But Pim Verbeek is still reading from the Graham Arnold coaching manual and not picking Carle.”
This statement is also unfair in Arnold, and is a very common fallacy used to explain why Carle is currently not in the starting 11 for the Socceroos recently.
Graham Arnold, in fact, gave Carle his first real opporunity with the Socceroos, after he was left completely out of the picture by Guus, and prior to that under Farina regularly missed selection.
Personally, the fact that Arnold persists with Clueless Carle is another nail in his credibility to me, but surely all fans of Nick Carle should adore Graham Arnold’s ‘farsightedness’ in choosing Carle when the more high-profile managers have deemed him unfit for the first team.
Mick of Newie said | June 6th 2008 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
Jim I struggle to find a player in any code that polarises views like Carle so lets agree to disagree. The point some of us admitted Carlophiles make is that for those that don’t rate him he is judged by a far higher standard that others.
This non tracking slur is a classic example. I watched him for 2 seasons at the Jets and he worked hard with and without the ball, watch the 3 recent Bristol games and he is working his backside off. He has played 7 times for the Roos (mostly limited minutes) and he has tried. His one crime in those limited opportunities has been arguably trying too hard. But that is understandable given both the current and past coach have gone on the record to slag him off. Name me another player whose abilities are so questioned?
Kazama said | June 6th 2008 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
Slippery Jim
1) For much more recent examples of Nicky’s “alleged skill,” watch both legs of Bristol City’s playoff semi final win over Crystal Palace.
2) By your logic, how the hell is Harry in the side? He’s done SFA for two years.
fatboi-v- said | June 6th 2008 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
i am fed up with the lack of gametime given to our no.10 nicky carle. if used properly, he is our very own version of Juan Roman Riquleme. If u watch Argentina’s games does Riquleme scurry back to defence and help out? no. there’s a reason why we have defenders and midfield donkeys. Stick Nicky Carle around the half way line when defending and let him roam around the box when attacking and along with Kewell, we have the capacity to play beautiuful sexy football which WILL WIN US GAMES.
why battle with donkeys like wilshire, holman, etc when u can play falir football with nicky and win 3-0 plus.
Mick of Newie said | June 6th 2008 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
I think whenever Jesse is not hitting his “hits” kpi with his pieces on Avram Grant or world cup bids he knows he has just got to roll out another Nick story to hit paydirt.
Dave said | June 6th 2008 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
Nicky Carle is a very good player on the fringe of the national team but at this time has Marco Bresciano ahead of him in the pecking order. Carle’s time will come but at this stage, when everyone is fit, only as a bit player. He certainly needs to find the back of the net more or at least be providing the final pass to set up more chances.
The Socceroos will play a smilar style to the game away to China even though Pim now has more attacking options.
Expect a tight 5,4,1 formation. I personally would have Djite as the lone striker to start with Kennedy on after 60mins as the game slows.
HK and Bresc to support when we have the ball which means no starting place for Carle. However after 60 mins or so depending upon the situation Carle to replace Bresc.
Appears Coyne may join the other 4 at the back to make a 5 with the 2 wing backs. Grella and Culina to sit in the middle. Neill to come in for the next game.
Slippery Jim said | June 6th 2008 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
Kazama, I watched the first leg, and admittedly not the second, although I read the match reports. To be honest, Carle did play well in the match I saw, providing both assists, but about bloody time - these were his first assists all season for Bristol City, and he is yet to score for them, and remember he is not even playing against the first division in England (EPL).
One game, however, does not maketh the man. Over the playoffs, he came very close to giving away one penalty, and did gave away another, which poses further questions about his ability to use judgement as well as his defensive side. And remember, he is not playing - let alone scoring or setting up goals against - the world’s elite day in day out like some of our midfield choices are, as he is playing in the lower Championship division. I still do not see a world class player capable of making the first team for the Socceroos. I think Dave’s last post sums it up well.
As for Kewell, unlike Carle he is a tried and tested scorer for his most recent club, as well as the Socceroos, having scored the match winner most recently and, I’m sure you would agree after watching the last WC qualifier, is clearly back fit and in form just when we need him. Don’t tell me you’re saying we should ditch Harry for Nick? Please…many lovers of Carle do not have proper perspective when it comes to his value, the person who compared him to Fabregas on this blog is a classic example. I mean, purely stats alone: Fabregas 7 goals, 19 assists this season, Nick Carle 2 assists. Love truly is blind, folks.
Mick of Newie said | June 6th 2008 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
Jim
I don’t expect Carle to see any game time. I would like to see him play in a 4 5 1 with Culina, Kewell, Bresciano and Grella behind Kennedy or Djite. That does mean ahead of valeri, wilkshire and holman and ahead of a third central defender. The game plan would be to seek to get possession and do something with it.
I expect Pim will play a 5 4 1 with Coyne in a central 3 and Wilkshire, Grella, Culina and Kewell behind Kennedy or Bresc behind Kewell. Either way I suspect the lone striker to be isolated, a lot of graft in midfield and we turn over possession and are generally under the pump. I would be happy to be proved wrong (either in selection or performance).
Salvation said | June 6th 2008 @ 6:20pm | Report comment
….well Jim, certainly have got something to say about Nick.
And to those of who think it’s a decision between Mark (it is MARK, btw) Bresciano and Nicky Carle…welll it needn’t be one or the other. There are plenty of other midfield spots to allow for the new “hardworking” Nicky.
And, to those Scientist Football coaches out there (Ernie Merrick eg), find some Heart. Some Footballing Heart.
Kazama said | June 6th 2008 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
Slippery Jim: “Don’t tell me you’re saying we should ditch Harry for Nick?”
Not at all mate. The point I was trying to make is that perhaps the team isn’t picked on current form, responding to what you said in an earlier post (”Why do you think national team coaches go to matches? To gauge current form.”). Harry is an absolute champ, but there’s no way in hell you could say he’s made the team on form.
Jesse Fink said | June 6th 2008 @ 7:45pm | Report comment
Well, boys, just mentioning Nicky is like dropping a pig into a pit of komodo dragons. Listen to the racket. Mick, you are spot on when you say “I struggle to find a player in any code that polarises views like Carle… he is judged by a far higher standard that others.” The issue/mystery is why. I think it’s something that lies deep at the heart of Australian male culture, which is suspicion of flamboyance, mistrust of flair. Slippery Jim, just as I am a broken record in promoting Carle, you are a broken record in dumping him. I wrote a blog for The World Game called “The Tiger in Nicky Carle” which quotes a Bristol fans’ forum on Carle. Please read it.
Slippery Jim said | June 6th 2008 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
Jesse, I had a squiz at that fans forum some time before your article posted it after being directed to it by a Bristol City fan I know, and it is interesting to hear how most of their fans seem to feel, however the opinion of a particular section of fans of a less- than-cutting-edge Championship side have no real relevance in whether Nick Carle is genuinely fit to displace other Socceroos in the starting 11 of a national team. It is down to the manager of said team, and no one else, and if I am a broken record then so was Guus and so is Pim in dumping Nick Carle from the regular starters for the big games, in favour of players more likely to get the job done. It is entirely your prerogative if you wish to continue second-guessing our national team managers (as it is for all fans!) however I personally feel that the personnel selection so far (all things considered) has been spot on. Personally, I would forego all the “art” for some decent “craft” if it makes the difference in getting us to the next world cup. What we do when we get there is a whole other story…
As for Carle “polarising people”, I would gladly prefer to discuss the more underated, yet more interesting members of the squad, however all we ever seem to get is the same old articles on Kewell, Carle and occasionally Lucas Neill - after all, you cynical media types realise that these get the most hits. You may be shocked to find that most bloggers do tend to disagree whatever the subject. Write an article on cheese, and I am sure you would find it just as “polarising” in the blog format
Jesse Fink said | June 6th 2008 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
Slippery Jim, Jesse, to say “the opinion of a particular section of fans of a less-than-cutting-edge Championship side have no real relevance in whether Nick Carle is genuinely fit to displace other Socceroos in the starting 11 of a national team” is again being disingenuous, IMO. The Bristol fans have seen a lot more of Carle than you and I (and Pim Verbeek) so I think their opinion of his abilities/talents is very relevant. Who are these “more interesting” members of the team? Regards, Cynical Media Type
Slippery Jim said | June 6th 2008 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
Jesse, for someone who works for a national tv station, surely you realise that in this age of modern wonders such as live match coverage on tv and the internet, you, I, Pim, in fact every man and his dog can watch as much of Nicky Carle as they can stomach, and at least as much as BC fans. I’m surprised that you haven’t been an astute follower of his BC career from afar yourself, being the self-styled High Priest of Nicky that you are. So let us discard that statement as somewhat presumptuous. All fans are entirely entitled to shout their opinions from the rooftops if it so takes their fancy, however if you think Pim is eagerly checking the fans forums to see which way the barometer is swinging before making his team selections, then perhaps you have read the man entirely differently to myself. As for your question, the very fact that you have to ask is, of course, the whole problem.
Jesse Fink said | June 6th 2008 @ 9:15pm | Report comment
Two things: I’m not a machine. I don’t watch every match on Fox and am very glad not to; frankly there are better things to do on the weekend. Pim does not know Nicky very well, he has admitted as much to me, and particularly early on in his stint as Socceroos coach relied on the advice of people within the FFA, including Graham Arnold and Rob Baan. A fans’ forum is not going to change Pim’ss selection policies, but I never suggested it would: I posted the link simply to debunk this myth that he’s not hard working, which Mick also had issue with you. Lastly,I suspect you’re not answering the question because you can’t. Or am I being presumptuous?
Slippery Jim said | June 6th 2008 @ 9:53pm | Report comment
Actually, it’s not really a difficult question to answer, is it?
If you re-read some of my posts above you will see at least three members of the Socceroos that I have mentioned who are far more deserving of the attention fostered upon Nick Carle. I’ll add another: Super Dave Carney. He has been a more attacking force than Carle for the Socceroos, and that’s from left back.
Anyway, I’ll let you get back to those “better things” you have to do on your Friday night - I’m sure replying to my humble thoughts on the topic are not one of them - let’s all just agree that we hope whatever team walks onto the park on Sunday morning fasions a decent result, if we can get all three points we will be through to the next stage, I believe.
Midfielder said | June 6th 2008 @ 9:59pm | Report comment
Jes who would you drop, what is you midfield?
Jesse Fink said | June 6th 2008 @ 10:04pm | Report comment
Holman? Cahill? Bresh? And Carney? He’s a more attacking force for the Socceroos because he gets ten times more opportunity to play!! Have a good night, Slippery Jim. I’m off to get drunk and find a wife.
fatboi-v- said | June 7th 2008 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
it’s interesting to have this nicky carle debate over and over again because the direction that FFA are taking with the kids is to build up the technical abilities of players, hence the focus on futsal and small sided games. so in essence, we are training our kids to become skillful players etc like a nicky carle who any man and his dog can see is Australia’s ’skillfulest’ player. The irony is that having all that skill cant get you into the national team and i am fustrated at the over-appreciation of bland, unimaginative workhorses favoured by Pim.
and to those idiots who correlated flair with losing and graft with ‘getting the job done’ are incredibly deluded. we must all belive in beautiful football and put our trust into flair and lets start by picking our flair players!
Koala Bear said | June 7th 2008 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
Nicky Carle, is one of my favourites and I would pick him to create in the top third of the half with Bresh, and move Kewell out on the left flank and if Jesus is fit use him as the target man with Macers along side him.. At the very least I would give Carle some 30 mins of game time in the second half and take off Wilkshire or Culina..
~~~~~~~
KB
Slippery Jim said | June 7th 2008 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
fatboi, I understand your sentiment, however football is not sychronised swimming, there are no points for artistic interpretation - the result is what matters, for better or worse. If you would prefer to see us do a few Harlem Globetrotter style gimmicky tricks and get knocked out of the World Cup rather than qualify by playing smart tactical football that is up to you.
Jesse, as I posted earlier, I’m no fan of Homan, but Cahill, Bresc, Carney and Scott McDonald are the players I think deserve far more attention thant they get.
Take Scott McDonald.
Here is a man playing for the top team in the top league in Scotland, and as well as creating a number of assists, he has scored 39 goals in all competitions this season for his club - 39!
So hot is his form that he was top scorer this season in the SPL - a top 10 European league, with 6 more goals than his nearest rival, and scored two hattricks. Celtic appreciate his conrtibution so much that they have introduced their new away kit in identical green and gold to the Socceroos. (OK, I made that bit up, but seriously, it is scarily similar!)
For those like Mick of Newie, who scoffed “for all his SPL achievements he may never cut it with the national team because international football is not like the SPL. The roos don’t play like Celtic or Motherwell and Iraq and Japan don’t defend like Hibs or Inverness Caledonian Thistle.” Scott McDonald scored goals in arguably the most highly skilled football competition in the world, the UCL, including the match winner against the then Champions of Europe, AC Milan.
If you can score against top Italian defenders in the UCL, I’m sure Iraq and Japan should be no problem! I’m not sure what excuse Nick Carle has, playing in the lowly Championship, in comparison, against teams like Crystal Palace, yet unable to score a single goal.
Over his career McDonald has scored 78 goals from 201 appearances, which is a better career goals-per-game average than Wayne Rooney or Anelka. For Australia, he has scored 29 goals in 51 games.
In December 2007, McDonald was named BBC Sportsound Player of the Year for his eight man-of-the-match performances throughout the 2006/07 season.
In March he was named Australian FourFourTwo magazine’s Overseas Player of the Year.
To hear people for some reason putting Nick Carle on a pedestal as “the most gifted attacking player we have” makes me wild, because they are ignoring the red hot form and mind-blowing achievements of one Scotty Mac, for one, as well as others.
Hell, the man doesn’t even NEED to play for us, both his parents are Scottish, he could play for their national team, but he chooses to play for Australia, and we should be singing his praises far more.
Watching the move against Iraq in which he casually rolled the ball back for Bresc’s shot gave me a real thrill to see a move worthy of Arsenal coming from our National team.
Once the squad gels and gets used to playing in this style, incorporating McDonald’s nous, I think we are all in for a real treat.
dasilva said | June 7th 2008 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
No one saying that Nick Carle should replace Bresciano or Cahill or Kewell. People are just saying that he should get more game time for the socceroos. The reason why people get so work up and give alot of attention (and perhaps exagerating his skills) to Nick Carle is because he hasn’t play that much while someone like Holman has given plenty of opportunity to fail. Slippery Jim, can we all just agree that Nick Carle is a better player than Brett Holman and offer more impact off the bench. I’m sick of seeing holman coming on with absolutely poor touch and no vision and atrocious finishing.
Yes, Nicky carle have problems scoring goals and hasn’t exactly produce a lot of assist for Bristol City but watching him play in the playoff they pretty much used him as a holding midfielders and given him no license to have an influence in the final third. They are just not using him probably during the play off by bypass him in the midfield by plumping up long balls to the striker. He did far more work defensively in those games then attacking which was strange. Most of the praise for nick carle in this season is for the ability to control the game in the centre of the park rather than his attacking flair (i heard the commentator say that he runs the bristol city midfield). From what I read they never played Nicky carle as the playmaker just behind the striker. They either played him deep or on the wing.
You state that he plays in a lowly Bristol city while other players play readily for better clubs but people who watch him play believes that he is better player than that. If playing for lower division clubs is a detriment for national selection then players like cahill (got pick playing for millwall), carney and chris coyne (we’ll see how he goes tonight) would never be pick.
fatboi-v- said | June 7th 2008 @ 5:43pm | Report comment
slippery jim, i can see why scott macdonold is a quality player. but he is limited. even pim said scotty mac is a poacher, a finisher. he needs a big man to play off or plenty of service from midfield. ive noticed the games scott mac has played for the socceroos and yes he does get in great positions and makes good runs but the problem is our current midfield cannot see the pass or is unwilling to play the pass either out of fear of losing the ball or lack of self-belief.
we need nicky carle running our midfield and playing nicky carle would be good for scott macdonald.
last point: i understand that playing smart tactical football (unimaginative, bland, boring) CAN get us to the world cup but it wont take us very far. why not play beautiful flair football instead? this will get us into the world cup AND help us get much further. at the top level of international football, to win games u need creativity, flair and special players. that’s why we need to continue to advocate for the likes of nicky carle, bresciano, kewell, culina and nathann burns (hopefully he continues to develop) to feature in our national team. lets aim to be a brazil, argentina, egypt etc instead of a greece!
Slippery Jim said | June 7th 2008 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
fatboi-v-, you are spot on in saying he is more of a poacher style striker, perhaps akin to the style of a Ruud Van Nistelrooy. The key to getting the best out of him is perhaps to have a Viduka-style striker with him. He is not the kind of one-man striker a lot of modern football seems to be heading towards. It will be fascinating to see if he works in combination with Jesus up forward, but finding the right pairing is crucial. With Kewell firing, and also once Cahill is fit, there is further potential for a lot of good combination play.
mick of newie said | June 8th 2008 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
My intent was not to bag Mcdonald, I hope he makes it for the Roos, as I said above he is a talent. But Jim I agree with your last post and I will add Pim will never give Mcdonald the set up he is used to and thus my doubts about how succesful he will be.
The major issue is that this morning we finally got the away result we deserved. We completely gave up any intention of winning. There will be a lot of crap this week about how they grafted, how unlucky the goal was and the heat.
The facts are Pim’s team was sent out to get a nil nil draw. They only played once they went behind and then because of original line up they did not have the right players on the park and we were left playing route 1 rubbish.
Yes the players all tried hard, they were let down by a coach who wouldn’t back them to win.
Koala Bear said | June 8th 2008 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
mick of newie,
I agree I have yet to see any highlights of the game apart from the Fox internet wrap. I have lamented before about Aussie Pim and I never supported his appointment. He has no talent when it comes to reading a situation presented to him, as to what tactics to play, or who he should pick to play.. The truth of the matter is that we are lucky we have only experienced one defeat so far. But I fear Aussie Pim’s luck is starting to run out with the tactics he has employed so far.. I think we should employ Rob Baan to take charge if he is agreeable to take over.. His handling of the Footballroos against Ghana in England was superb.. Get Nicky Carle into the fray..
~~~~~~
KB
Slippery Jim said | June 8th 2008 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
mick of newie, spot on. Our defensive approach deservedly came back to bite us. The way the team was set out originally was a disgrace, and not terribly smart after how lucky we were to get away with it in China.
Salvation said | June 9th 2008 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Slip, you must be troubled by the lack of patient, intelligent possession football displayed last weekend. Especially when wilkshire and homan are making the runs from midfield. No Bresciano, and definitiely no Carle. This blog’s topic is about Carle… and Jesse you have illustrated your point. Last weekend was Green in some respects, that i can accept. Naive Green.
Slippery Jim said | June 9th 2008 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
Salvation, I can only describe Pim’s first team as “Bizarre”. We were always asking for trouble hanging back waiting for the Iraqis to attack us, and expecting to soak up the pressure for 90 minutes whilst optimistically trying to counterattack with no real front man. Our strength is in attack, yet we put out a park-the-bus formation as we did against China in Kunming. This time we were not as lucky as we were in China. To ping long balls in from midfield to Josh Kennedy is never going to be an effective, smart or possession-minded strategy. I would have preferred to see Jesus and Macca on from the start, along with Bresc, but there you go. Now we have to go up against a much improved Qatar for vital points. At least the result should make the return match in Sydney against China more than an academic game for those of us who will be attending!
GreennGold2010 said | June 10th 2008 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
The best form of defence is attack!!!
sledgeross said | June 10th 2008 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
I watched the playoff games and remember Carle tracking back quite often. And giving away a penalty (and lucky not to give another one away) and a few free kicks near the box.
Salvation said | June 10th 2008 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Well nothing like appearing to give a well balanced opinion, sledge.
You would also remember the assists for both goals in the first playoff too, then.
sledgeross said | June 10th 2008 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
Ahhh yes, but Im not questioning Nicks attacking prowess Salvo!
Im merely saying that despite his application (he did put the effort in, no doubt), that his defence is somewhat laclustre when compared to those ahead of him positionally. I concur though that he should have been thrown on last game to try and work some magic. Hopefully he can prove himself to the naysayers by completing a successful season at Bristol next season.
Pim should play him sometime.
Salvation said | June 10th 2008 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
How magnanimous of you. Just remember we presently have problems with the attacking half of the field, and with Timmy Cahill out, surely Carle can add the impetus in his absence. Unless of course you really do question his attacking prowess ; )
sledgeross said | June 10th 2008 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
Hey, what can I say. Ill give credit where its due!
Give Nick a go I say, so Fink has something else to write about!!!
Salvation said | June 10th 2008 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
ok, we’ll leave it at that, then ; /
Halcyon said | June 17th 2008 @ 4:36pm | Report comment
Sure, Pim should have tried out Carle (with the likes of Grella or Culina in the centre of midfield to ensure some pressure on the opposition ball-carrier) but I say don’t write-off Pim’s view. To compare it to Graeme Arnold is unthinking - Arnold coached the way he did to play it safe as he did not have the confidence to risk creativity. Pim, however, honestly doesn’t think playing Carle would be a good idea.
It is a rational, tactical decision founded in Pim’s belief that preparing to play against teams in the 2010 world cup who have at their disposal far superior creativity than our own (with or without Carle) cannot be combated with our own (inferior) creativity. It can, however, be combated with a well-structured, well-oiled machine made up of consistent players who work well up and down the pitch. We saw evidence of this in World Cup 2006 against Italy - we were not so close to victory because of a creativity that matched the class of the Italians, but because of glimses of creativity coupled with a structure and consistency that can always cause upsets.
Again, I believe Carle should be given a chance in the games to come - but I think its important not to get overly excited about how much Carle would bring to Australian football. The sort of creativity he has does not disappear in a player, so perhaps it would be a good thing for Carle to become a little more consistent and helpful in defence before he is given more time on the park. Lets leave it to Pim, yeah?!
westy said | June 22nd 2008 @ 1:45am | Report comment
How many one footed players do you want. We already have Kewell.The great joke at Marconi was how well he did in the beep tests…stamina has never been his strong point. lovely skills with one foot trouble is he likes to have a bit of a rest up front during games. The trouble is the ball use to be down the other end for extended periods. Nicky sometimes forgets he is technically a midfielder. It looks all pretty but when it comes to facts the goals during his career are just not there. Check. He is not and never has been a prolific goalscorer. I have seen this type of “mission” before from a journalist/coach to push for or prevent a player. Jesse to single minded about Carle.The best prevention job was that crook Eddie Thompson ’s job on Marshall Soper. …and do not feel sorry for Eddie he hurt football in this country….. I have no doubt of Jesse’s bona fides and genuine opinion relating to Carle but you push to much for this bloke . I believe Carle deserves an opportunity to be in the squad as an attacking creative midfielder but for someone who has watched him regularly consistency, stamina and scoring goals have never been his bywords …… He has had chances and failed before. His time is running out.