Comments on: The Deans era should be Sevens heaven

By: Dave

Dave — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:00:46 +0000

The crowd do not boo Australia in Sevens because Australia “played so well”. It was due to an incident of poor sportsmanship.

This boo Australia tradition goes back to one of the early Hong Kong Sevens tournaments in the late 70s.
Right from the first tournament, which I think was in 1976, the crowd has always given lots of support to the underdog in any game. This underdog support is one of the things that made it into the great event it has become.

Not in that first year but soon after it, Australia were playing a true minnow of rugby. From memory I think it was some ex-pat teachers,etc cobbled together to represent Hong Kong but I am not sure. Anyway the match was always going to be a cake walk for the Australian team. During the match one of the Aussie players got unnecessarily physical with one of the Hong Kong players. Then after scoring a try the Aussie player made various hand signals to rub in the fact that Australia were winning and scoring.

In other words it was a display of bad sportsmanship from a vastly superior rugby team towards a minnow team who were doing their best.

From that point on the HK crowd have booed every Australian try.

By: kenikenipat

kenikenipat — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:01:45 +0000

The current Aussie 7’s team have been dissapointing (Go Portugal). But it’s not due to the ARU. I’ve heard that its because their oranges haven’t been cut into 6ths or 8ths as is traditional, but quarters or thirds. This means they’re unable to place the orange, mouthguard style, between the lips and teeth because quarters are obviously too large. As a result they are getting dehydrated and that is why they lost to Fiji in London. Eric Rush and Serevi have always been massive fans of the fruit cut into eighths, as their impressive records show.

I think the Orange Boy needs to have a good think about this.

By: sheek

sheek — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:10:51 +0000

True tah,

My point is that Fiji hasn’t translated those 7s skills into consistent success at 15s.

JimC,

Noted re England team, but my focus was on Australian rugby.

By: DaveW

DaveW — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:50:17 +0000

Well perhaps the emphasis for the development of sevens should not be on the professionals but in the junior systems. The skills learned playing sevens is surely more beneficial to the development of junior players then colt level and upwards for example. I personally never once played sevens or had the opportunity to as a junior player. Only later at uni did I play and soon realised it was not a game made for props. Where fitness aside, my ball skills matched up in no shape or form either.

However, it is intetesting to note that soccer is going through a process now of the implementation of 5 a side games as the lynchpin of their junior development system. Furthermore sighting many points already discussed here, improved technical ability, greater understanding of positional play, fitness etc. I certainly think that there can be only benefits to come from the greater implementation of sevens rugby into junior football.

By: Spiro Zavos

Spiro Zavos — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:08:15 +0000

A new example of how Sevens Rugby can help a gifted player make it in the 15-man game is Adam Thompson. Thompson was a brilliant Under-21 player and in line for an IRB player of the year award. His career floundered in Dunedin. Last year he was drafted into the NZ Sevens side. He played splendidly and was given a Super 14 contract with the Highlanders. He did not make the starting side until well into the tournament. Now he is an All Black. QED.

By: Cutter

Cutter — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:59:30 +0000

A couple of points. Those who play for the Crusaders dont necessarily play for Canterbury in the NPC so their records wont necessarily correspond.

Fiji havent converted their 7s success to the 15 man game, but that is largely a result of their set piece and forward inferiority. Props, hookers and locks dont make national 7s teams. Fiji does produce good (but not great) back rowers and had a sublime backline at the world cup who carved Wales and almost South Africa. Those skills can be directly attributable to 7s.

By: Mitch

Mitch — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:04:13 +0000

True Tah, not to mention losing to Portugal a few weeks ago! I would be interested to hear of a greater upset in Aussie sport…

By: JimC

JimC — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:37:06 +0000

Sheek

A number of England 7s players have moved to the 15s side. Josh Lewsey, James Simposon-Daniel, David Strettle, Tom Varndell….

By: True Tah

True Tah — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:25:11 +0000

Sheek,

try telling the Welsh that being good at 7s doesn’t translate to being good at 15s following their dismissal by Fji at the 2007 World Cup. Where do you think those Fijian boys learnt to step and run the way they did?

Australia has a pathetic record in 7s at any rate, currently we are lagging behind that powerhouse of world rugby…..Kenya in 7s!

By: sheek

sheek — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:44:23 +0000

Greg Russell et al,

Yeah, being successful at 7s doesn’t automatically translate to the 15s game. Exhibit A - Fiji.

However, 7s is very good at developing basic skills & an appreciation of support play so necessary for 15s success.

Also, unlike cricketers who play both limited overs & 5 day tests, rugby 7s players are almost unheard of in super teams. Why this is, i’m not sure.

But the point is, those skills learnt in 7s aren’t being progressed to 15s by the better players. The twain never meets.

By: David Gleeson

David Gleeson — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:21:28 +0000

The Notional Wrestling League aka NRL is even more nefarious than the Randwick, Easts and Students Corp Camperdown rugby clubs and shouldnt be trusted by the ARU. It goes without saying that the Mungoes wouldnt want to give their players a taste of rugby/travelling anyway.

By: Greg Russell

Greg Russell — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:08:43 +0000

Andrew,

Fair points, and I admit I was conveniently ignoring Canterbury’s recent improvement in sevens. But I’d be confident in my memory of their general record over the last decade as being very poor by their 15s standards.

Actually, I should be careful here: it’s really only the Crusaders (franchise) that has a good 15s record. Canterbury (the province) has an unflattering NPC record over the same period: just two titles in the last decade (2001 and 2004) at the same time as they have won 7 Super Rugby titles. Prima facie this doesn’t make sense, as it should be easier to win an NPC title - in which one only has to beat NZ teams - than it is to win a Super Rugby title, in which one also has to beat Australian and South African teams. Here I believe the difference is Robbie Deans: the same players simply do not perform as well in a Canterbury jersey under a different coach. So all the current talk of appointing a new Crusaders coach from within the franchise should be sweet music to all other franchises. Whatever the people here like to think, NPC results prove that there is no in-house replacement who comes remotely near Deans as a coach.

But I digress. I just wanted to point out that you say that Robbie Deans as Crusaders coach had little influence on Canterbury sevens result, but at the same time you conjecture that Robbie Deans as Wallaby coach might have a major influence on Australian sevens results. To me this sounds like having it both ways.

Whatever, I concede that Deans cannot be bad for Australian sevens. However I don’t think anything could make Australian sevens any worse! For some time I have been of the opinion that the Australian sevens program as it currently stands is wasted money, and so the team should be withdrawn from the competition and the money put to better use. Either that or make an improved effort.

By: Andrew Logan

Andrew Logan — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:18:25 +0000

Greg….I’m not certain how the Canterbury sevens record “quite clearly shows” that Robbie Deans doesn’t place a high value on Sevens?

Deans has not been Canterbury coach since 2000 when he dedicated himself to the Crusaders job. In any case, the current coach of Canterbury sevens is Ernie Goodhue, under whom the Caterbury side made the final of the 2007 NZ National Sevens before losing to Auckland. This year, 2008, Canterbury beat West Coast, Wellington and North Harbour before losing the quarter final 19-17 to Otago, and the plate semi 26-29 to Bay of Plenty following a try after the bell. Not exactly the worst side in NZ surely.

Blaming Deans for Canterbury sevens results is surely a little like saying that Ewen McKenzie should take some responsibility for how NSW Country performs. Aside from being broadly in the same union, there is no connection between the two. Deans was Crusaders coach, not Canterbury CEO, or High Performance Manager.

In the article above, I’m simply saying that given that the Wallaby coach has a philosophy that clearly aligns with the skills that sevens teaches, then the game may get a bit more support from the hierarchy in this country. That’s all.

By: Greg Russell

Greg Russell — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:46:37 +0000

Andrew (and Spiro),

I hate to spoil a good theory, but the fact is that all through the Deans tenure, Canterbury has had an abysmal record in sevens rugby. As you may know (or if you don’t know, it would not surprise you to learn), NZ has a well structured sevens scene, with a national provincial championship that is played in Queenstown at the end of the year. Usually Canterbury does not even make it past group stage in this tournament. Indeed, one might say that Canterbury is to this competition what Australia is to the international sevens circuit, i.e., the great underachievers. In a NZ squad of 12 for an IRB tournament there is typically only one Canterbury player (e.g. Steven Yates in recent times).

Of course I am not slating all this home to Deans - that would be wrong. But quite clearly it shows that Deans does not place a high value on sevens, otherwise he would have made sure that something was done about Canterbury’s poor performances in this sphere of the game.

Almost all of NZ’s success in sevens has to be attributed to coach Gordon Tietjens and his protege Eric Rush. Both are fitness fanatics, and players live in fear of their brutal fitness sessions. Indeed, in recent times the All Black selectors have sometimes used Tietjens to get underperforming AB backs fit again, e.g. Rokocoko recently (last year?) and Lomu some years ago. I guess the philosophy is (1) if you aren’t breathing hard, it is easier to execute your skills, and (2) to adapt St Teresa’s famous quote (”I can make her holy, but I can’t make her smart”), a coach can make a player fit, but he can’t make someone a more natural ball player. And of course it’s a different type of fitness to what is necessary for 15s. About a month ago young sevens star Viktor Vito was released from 7s so that he could bulk up to play 15s for Wellington.

There are obvious messages in all this for the ARU if they want to give 7s a good crack.

By: eric

eric — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:45:22 +0000

Yes, all makes sense men. I am intrigued to know how Nathan Sharpe will change his game to play what is in front of him. And, indeed, what it is that will be in front of him. It might be a group of Perth club footballers.
I am also curious as to why it has taken until now to get a clear picture of life under Eddie Jones. Why didn’t rugby journos write about this in more detail years ago?
I went to the Commonwealth games sevens tounament two years ago in Melbourne. You might recall that Aust allowed several “big gun” Wallabies to play, in the hope of a medal. Eg Giteau, Tuquiri, Latham, Shepherd, Fava. However, they were not successful. Even in 7’s, Tuquiri couldn’t find space, but my abiding memory (apart from Fava’s unconscious spasms), was the lack of stamina of the bulked up 15’s players. I saw Shepherd & Tuquiri replaced, exhausted, several minutes into a match. They both staggered to the sideline, and stood heaving with hands on knees.

By: Spiro Zavos

Spiro Zavos — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:58:13 +0000

Andrew has nailed home the key points in this posting: the tremendous benefit to the DNA of Australian that Robbie Deans will bring and the value of Sevens Rugby to the development of a winning with style Wallabies side.
I had a chat once Eric Rush about why he put so much time into Sevens as a player and coach. He told me that it was the perfect way to good young players aiming for a professional career to take the next step from school and age Australians side to the Super 14 arena. Academies did not give the youngster the experience of really being professional players with the touring, the experience of playing in front of large hostile crowds. But more importantly the rugby experience they got.
Rush said that in Sevens you have to learn to make your tackles, for a missed tackle meant points to the opposition. You had to be fit. You had to have all the skills, with backs sometimes playing in the forwards. And you had to learn to play what is in front of you, taking quick and accurate decisions under the pressure of time.
In the 1980s the Wallabies brilliant back play was built around dedicated Sevens players: David Campese, the Ella brothers and so on. In fact Australia was so successful at the Hong Kong Sevens the tradition of booing them (from disgruntled ex-pat Brits) became a feature of the tournament.
NZ in the 1990s caught on to the idea, especially when Jonah Lomu, under the guidance of Rush, was introduced to the Hong Sevens while still at school. Subsequently a team of stars has been developed for NZ rugby through Sevens play, with the latest All Black Adam Thompson being the latest off the Sevens assembly line.