By Spiro Zavos
June 11th 2008 @ 12:39am
Robbie Deans: A man made by rugby
Psychologists have argued for decades about the relative weight of hereditary and environment in the creation of a person’s character and personality.
In the case of Robbie Deans, the discussion is pointless. He is a man and coach made by rugby.
Rugby genius and nous are in his genes. He was brought up in a nation that prides itself on being a ‘rugby country’ and in the back country areas of the Canterbury plains where ‘cranky South Island farmers’ have provided the heart and soul of All Blacks sides since the first Test in 1903.
Robbie Dean’s home club is Ellesmere, a farming district about an hour’s drive out of Christchurch. The club house is large and comfortable, built by the locals. On the board of honour are the names of the All Blacks the club has produced: Alex Wyllie, Bruce and Robbie Deans, Todd Blackadder and Scott Hamilton.
Robbie Deans has played and coached at Ellesmere and sometimes, when he has time, pops down to watch the local side playing at the ground. I went there a couple of years ago to get an insight into the Deans mindset.
An extremely competitive and high standard game was played. And you can see where Deans gets his obsession with creating a team that plays as a team rather than getting stars to lead the team to victory.
You don’t tend to get stars playing in country rugby. The country stars are quickly grabbed by the city schools, clubs and provinces. Those who play in clubs like Ellesmere tend to be tough, hard grafting players who provide the heart and guts to the teams they play for, at the local, provincial and national level.
So it was no surprise to me that Deans concentrated in his first week as the coach of the Wallabies on creating a team environment that reflected his Ellesmere experience.
There is no ‘leadership group.’ Everyone is expected to contribute leadership at the appropriate time, on and off the field.
The Wallabies have been mixed up in the training drills so that players form a new community, the 2008 Wallabies, rather like a country club community where everyone is expected to contribute and where the team is stronger than its component parts.
The Deans family was on the first fleet to Christchurch when the city was founded in 1850. The intention was to create a typical English cathedral city on the plains of Canterbury, so the main river running through the town was called the Avon.
A spacious square was created, with a magnificent cathedral dominating the town environment. A splendid university was built where a young scientist and avid rugby player, Earnest Rutherford, the first scientist to split the atom, learnt his physics. Early on, too, the city fathers established a fine sports ground, Lancaster Park, which was within an easy walking distance from the square.
Work hard and play your games hard could be the motto for Christchurch from its earliest days.
To this could be added an intense local loyalty.
Canterbury supporters are famous (infamous?) in New Zealand for their one-eyed dedication to their team. When the Indian cricketer, the Nawab of Pataudi, lost an eye in an accident, I wrote a piece saying that he had automatically become a Canterbury supporter.
When the Deans family started to put up its pre-fabricated house in the new city of Christchurch in 1850, they found that someone had forgotten to pack any nails. No worries. They made wooden nails and built the house with them. This is a typical example of the New Zealand tendency towards pragmatism.
This pragmatism is a feature of the kiwi culture. It permeates politics (the development of the welfare state) and the way rugby is played there. So when Robbie Deans wandered around the training field at Manly for the first Wallaby practice session and put down some of the cones marking training zones himself, he was following the pragmatic tradition of his ancestors: if something needs to be done, do it yourself.
If you drive around Christchurch’s magnificent Hagley Park, where rugby field after rugby field is passed, you’ll be using the Deans Drive. The naming of the drive is a tribute to the first All Blacks’ Deans, R.G.Deans, a burly, fast center who was a star of the 1905 All Blacks and the scorer of “Deans’ try”, the most famous incident in New Zealand rugby.
The 1905 All Blacks were unbeaten on their historic tour of the UK and France until late in the tour when they played Wales. Wales won. This was the first defeat the All Blacks had suffered.
But the All Blacks always maintained that they’d been robbed of a try scored by Bob Deans.
The cunning Welsh players had pulled Deans back into the field of play before the referee arrived to decide whether a try had been scored. That’s the New Zealand story and it’s been celebrated in one of the best novels with a rugby theme, Lloyd Jones’ The Book of Fame.
Bob Deans, as a man of some means, quietly and without any publicity, gave money to some of the battlers on the team throughout the tour so they could buy additional food, go to shows, and so on with the rest of the team.
There are clues here, in the quiet generosity of Bob Deans, of a similar concern for the welfare of his players that Robbie Deans has shown.
I remember talking with Robbie Deans about the views of Cecilia Lashley, a New Zealand social worker who has written some interesting books on how young men can be aggressive on the field of play and non-violent off it.
Deans has tried to implement her methods with the Crusaders, and will certainly do the same with the Wallabies. In a sense, this interest is a modern take on the Bob Deans mentorship role.
In this way, Robbie Deans has many of the attributes of coaches like Jack Gibson and Wayne Bennett. There is a laconic speech pattern. The words are few but they weigh a lot.
There is the concern about the total player, with improvements on and off the field, being the goal. The improvements are all about the issue of responsibility. Players are expected to be responsible for what they do and are given skills to achieve good outcomes, on and off the field.
Discipline and the desire to constantly improve are internalised. So you won’t get Deans imposing curfews and so on. The players are expected to do the right thing because they want to, not because they are forced to.
There is nothing soft about this approach. Players are treated with respect. They are given the chance to improve. But if they don’t rate, they don’t get selected.
Stephen Brett was dropped from the Crusaders for the finals, even though this cruelled his All Blacks chances in 2008, because he hadn’t delivered at inside centre.
Dan Carter tells the story of being called into Deans’ office as a youngster and asked what his ambitions were with the Crusaders: “To take Merhts’ position,” Carter replied. “Correct answer,” the coach replied.
There are people in Australia who queried the selection of Deans as the Wallaby coach on the grounds that a former All Black wouldn’t have his heart in coaching against New Zealand.
This argument has already been disproved with the way Deans has behaved with the Wallabies so far. It also fails to comprehend Deans’ passion for rugby, and especially for coaching it.
He loves the game. He loves coaching players to play it better than they have in the past. He loves coaching players who grow their game and their characters. This is why he was attracted to Brad Thorn as player and a person.
I got an insight into the Deans passion for coaching rugby at the beginning of the season when the Super 14 coaches and referees were going through a coaching session on the ELVs run by the IRB’s Paddy O’Brien at Coogee Oval.
It was clear from the session that Deans had done more homework on the ELVs and understood them better than all the other coaches and referees, including O’Brien.
From time to time he’d stop a presentation and point out, quietly but assertively, that the explanation was wrong. He’d come back to a point of contention until it was resolved to the satisfaction of everyone. “Are all the coaches agreed?”, he’d ask after some dispute.
After the session I wandered across to him and asked him how his interview had gone for the All Blacks job the day before. He shook his head and murmured that he’d tell me all about it at a later date.
It was clear he wasn’t going to get the job.
This was when I knew that Australian rugby had got the only coach in world rugby who has a chance of taking the Wallabies back to the heights that Rod Macqueen took the side to in the glory days of the late 1980s and early 1990s.
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Dexter William said | June 11th 2008 @ 4:57am | Report comment
I like this article a lot. Thanks Spiro.
sheek said | June 11th 2008 @ 7:32am | Report comment
Spiro,
This is a truly wonderful piece of writing about a truly extraordinary individual.
I want Deans to succeed, not only for the sake of Australian rugby, but because I also believe in his philosophy 100%.
If only more people in positions of authority & power had the same attitude as Deans, the world would be a better place.
Life is about family, friends, community & team. Everyone giving the best they’re capable of for the greater good of the whole. The rest is all a sham.
Andrew Marks said | June 11th 2008 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Ditto Dexter and Sheek. The Deans style is a wonderful contrast to the me-first culture of today. A beacon shining out in a very dark night.
The world is also a better place for articles of this quality and insight.
Geoff said | June 11th 2008 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Deans – and the rest of the players mentioned – are from Glenmark, miles away from Ellesmere and on the other side of Christchurch.
Vincent said | June 11th 2008 @ 9:05am | Report comment
what a great piece of writing and insight..excellent Spiro
Cameron said | June 11th 2008 @ 9:11am | Report comment
One sad thing about this piece is that it is describing Dean’s behaviour as if it is ‘new’, ‘unique’ and ‘different’, when in fact it is really what sport should be about for many. That is comradeship, support, community and integrity amongst other ‘old-fashioned’ decent civil behaviour. Perhaps we are blinded about the winner takes all philosophy from the elite sportspeople to forget that there is far more to life than fleeting success. Especially if it is at the expense at certain other qualities. like Spiro and the others responding, I do hope that this sort of spirit that Deans embodies is picked up the Wallabies. In that way we can have some true sports stars that can be looked upto and admired
Eljay said | June 11th 2008 @ 9:17am | Report comment
A fine, inspiring article, Spiro. Thank you.
LeftArmSpinner said | June 11th 2008 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Spiro, great piece. Real journalism.
Terry Kidd said | June 11th 2008 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Nice read, thanks Spiro
Bob McGregor said | June 11th 2008 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Thanks Spiro for such a revealing article on Robbie Deans and his general approach and philosophy towards life and Rugby. I wrote enthusiastically about the need for the ARU to offer him the National coaching role months ago. I feel more confident than ever we have the right man to lead the ARU to our next golden age.
Spiro Zavos said | June 11th 2008 @ 9:47am | Report comment
Geoff thanks for the correction. Glenmark is the club, not Ellesmere. I’m sorry for getting this fact wrong. A case of Homer nodding, I guess.
Peter K said | June 11th 2008 @ 10:02am | Report comment
Forget about structured rugby, and the new cath phrase ‘play what is in front of you’.
The biggest thing wrong with the Wallabies is that too many players are soft and are overpaid prima donna’s. They look at everything in terms of what is in it for them, and with the least effort.
Playing for the Wallabies was a job and the driver was earnings. This was epitomised by Gregan’s infamous quote that passion did not matter anymore.
If Deans can instill the virtues of passion, loyalty, selflessness then he will fix the biggest blight we have.
In one area he is very very correct. Peer pressure and expectation have a far greater influence than rules enforced above. The former cure the disease the latter just treats the symptoms. Creating a positive team culture is far better than rules psuedo enforcing it.
Terry Kidd said | June 11th 2008 @ 10:13am | Report comment
Peter K, I agree entirely. I often wondered if Gregan’s comment reflected the leadership ethos within the squad at the time and how this affected performance on the field. At the time I thought the comment was strange when viewed against the passion that other captains brought to national teams ie. Steve Waugh and his passion for the Baggy Green, Liz Ellis and Netball, Lucas O’Neill and the Socceroos, Johnny Warren and the Socceroos.
My thoughts are that if there is no passion then defeat does not seem to hurt as much and it needs only a slight loss of passion to cause defeat on the field, or a slight injection of passion to vastly improve performance …. witness England and France in the RWC quarter finals.
Greg Russell said | June 11th 2008 @ 10:34am | Report comment
One other little gem about Robbie Deans that Spiro probably didn’t know about: as part of his “farewell tour” through Canterbury, he actually played a competitive rugby match for Glenmark a few weeks ago. OK, it was only third grade, but it was a genuine competition match, not a festival game. In a similar vein, a farewell spread in the Christchurch Press showed a photo of Deans, dressed in a suit, executing a punt kick with perfect technique as he helped the Crusaders to warm up for a match this season. What other top-level coaches can one imagine actually getting their hands “dirty” like this? No wonder Deans’s players love him.
Incidentally, when asked why he took the field for Glenmark, Deans commented “I wanted to see the look of surprise on the face of Digit in the opposition” (for obvious reasons, Dean’s apperance was kept under tight wraps). Digit is Andrew Sullivan, Deans’s “technical analyst” at the Crusaders, whom he has brought to the Wallabies with him. Again, there are obvious messages in this.
Eljay said | June 11th 2008 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Hey Folks, the NZ Herald has been running the Wallabies team for about 30 minutes now. Nothing in SMH or News. Here’s the story:Rugby: Deans names four new caps in first Wallabies team
12:11PM Wednesday June 11, 2008
Robbie Deans has named two new players in his starting lineup and two on the bench. Photo / Getty Images
MELBOURNE – Luke Burgess and Peter Hynes will make their test debuts for the Wallabies after being named in the starting team to play Ireland at Melbourne’s Telstra Dome here on Saturday.
New South Wales Waratahs halfback Burgess and Queensland Reds winger Hynes are the two fresh faces in the first run-on side selected by new Wallabies head coach Robbie Deans, and assistants Jim Williams and Michael Foley.
Western Force centre Ryan Cross and Waratahs lock Dean Mumm could also make their debuts after being named on the bench for the one-off clash for the Lansdowne Cup.
New Zealander Deans said the four players earned their selection through form in the closing weeks of the Super 14 competition.
“We said, when we selected our initial squad, that we saw all of the players as being ready to go, and our selection of four new caps today follows through on that philosophy,” Deans said.
“We’ve been impressed with the attitude and the enthusiasm that all of the players have brought into camp. It wasn’t an easy side to pick.”
AdvertisementBurgess, 24, claimed the halfback spot filled for so long by the retired George Gregan after an impressive season with the Waratahs when he featured in 12 of the 14 matches played by the Super 14 finalists.
Hynes, 25, scored five tries during the Super 14 – including one against the Deans-coached Crusaders.
Other features of the first team for 2008 includes the pairing of Matt Giteau at first five-eighth and Berrick Barnes at second five-eighth – swapping the positions they filled at last year’s World Cup.
The starting side contains 10 of the team who played in the Wallabies’ last match, the quarterfinal loss to England at the World Cup.
Cameron Shepherd has won the race to the vacant fullback jersey, with Adam Ashley-Cooper covering the position from the bench, while experienced Reds halfback Sam Cordingley backs up Burgess.
Up front, Reds hooker Stephen Moore will combine in the front row with Waratahs props Benn Robinson and Matt Dunning.
Lock James Horwill, 22, continues his rapid rise by being named to partner Nathan Sharpe at lock in the absence of injured Dan Vickerman.
George Smith beat longtime rival Phil Waugh to the starting openside flanker spot.
Australia
Cameron Shepherd, Peter Hynes, Stirling Mortlock (captain), Berrick Barnes, Lote Tuqiri, Matt Giteau, Luke Burgess, Wycliff Palu, George Smith, Rocky Elsom, Nathan Sharpe, James Horwill, Matt Dunning, Stephen Moore, Benn Robinson.
Reserves: Adam Freier, Al Baxter, Dean Mumm, Phil Waugh, Sam Cordingley, Ryan Cross, Adam Ashley-Cooper.
- AAP
Nixon Gill said | June 11th 2008 @ 10:47am | Report comment
A nice insight there Spiro, that’s for making the effort!
Terry Kidd said | June 11th 2008 @ 11:09am | Report comment
Thanks Eljay, except for Sharpe’s presence I like the team. I predict problems for Dunning with Sharpe packing behind him …. unless someone tells Sharpe in no uncertain terms what he must do at scrum time !!!!
Eljay said | June 11th 2008 @ 11:12am | Report comment
I agree re Sharpe and Dunning. It may be we see a new sharper, Sharpe on Sat night. Hope so. Dunning, dunno.
Handy Andy said | June 11th 2008 @ 11:14am | Report comment
I didn’t think Rod Macqueen Took the Wallabies anywhere as coach until 1997. And I can’t remembering coaching rep football in the eighties at all.
I agree whole-heartedly with the sentiments
Terry Kidd said | June 11th 2008 @ 11:27am | Report comment
I said earlier this year that I thought Dunning was a little unfairly treated by some of the criticism heaped on him by some on the Roar. I felt that it was obvious that he was working hard on his game and that he was, at 27, still relatively young for a prop and maybe needed some more maturing. I also noted that during his failures at international level that Sharpe had been packing behind him, I also noted that the Force scrum has been shite all year with Sharpe packing in, I wondered whether Sharpe’s packing technique was not doing the Wallaby scrum any favours.
I have Dunning this year and he has generally produced the goods against all comers at S14 level with Vickerman and Mumm packing behind him. This test will see him with Sharpe behind him once again …. IMHO it will be unfair to knife Dunning if the scrum again has problems against Ireland. On the other hand he also needs to work a little harder in other areas.
mudskipper said | June 11th 2008 @ 11:39am | Report comment
Thanks Spiro…for a nice insight on Robbie Deans. Robbie Deans is also master of Diplomacy.
Structure is still required, however it is not always ideal to strict players options. “ Play want is in front of you”, can end up being only schoolboy rugby strategy and about individualism, it won’t work at international level. “ Play what is in front of you, as a team”, is likely to grasp better results. See the opposition’s weaknesses and take advantage.
Robbie Deans used structured strategy with the Crusaders this year to break down oppositions defence. He directed his team to use phase play from sideline to sideline stretching the opposition’s defence then attacked the centre channel with multiple players with dexterity, strength and speed. This is structured play the Deans way.
Balance is required but players must challenge the line and not leave it to a few. One of the on going problems with the Wallabies was Coaches were reluctant to stand down under performing players and give a fresh man a chance.
George Gregan was a product of his time and environment as was Steve Larkham and those before them Ella and Campese. They played a game that they were permitted to play by their Coach/es. I think Gregan point was planning and strategy over passion wins games in the professional rugby era.
Peter K said | June 11th 2008 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
mudskipper – re Gregan’s statement.
Yes his point was that planning, strategy, and execution were more important than passion, that they would beat passion alone.
What the robots under steddie eddie forgot was that planning, strategy AND passion was even better. That passion made the difference between between professionally prepared sides. The trouble with passion under steddie eddie was it lead to emotion which lead to spontainteity which lead to unpredictability which lead to the control freak eddie having a seizure. So passion had to be stamped out and replaced with a factory worker, another brick in the wall!
It is the passion that drives players through pain and the hard yards. The Wallabies too often were going through the motions, with no intensity, like a rehearsal of a script / play that they were bored with, the spectators were bored with and the opposition had seen 100 times before and hence knew what was coming before the Wallabies executed it. The times we were most effective was when the Wallaby forgot his lines and ad libbed.
The Link said | June 11th 2008 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
Spiro, a good piece and good time for the man behind the name story. The choice of Deans seems like a good one for Australian Rugby, but there is only one thing that counts – results over time. I’ll reserve my judgement until then, however the early signs are encouraging.
This being said I don’t think there’s been a more highly qualified 1st year international head coach in the history of the game, Macqueen included. Can anyone come up with one?
stillmissit said | June 11th 2008 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
Spiro great piece well written.
The ideals that Robbie Deans brings to the table are what attracted me to rugby all those years ago. Supporting friends, building lifelong relationships, putting more on the field than you did at training because you cared, being surrounded by people of good character who lifted you up and didnt drag you down.
Thank christ the South Island is 20 years behind the times it has produced what we need today.
Jim Boyce said | June 11th 2008 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
Spiro and Zac – This is fantastic. The article is what one would expect from Spiro, down to earth, full of insight, while giving us a perspective on the future. The contributions from all over are a tribute to Zac for getting the Roar going.
I sense there may be a rejuvenation of the role of captaincy of the Wallabies, now we have a coach who is fimly in control of his ego. This has been one of the missing links since Eales left the scene. The current model of a captain seem to rest unquestionably with John Smit of the Springboks. I would be interested to hear from Spiro as to what model of a captain will be generated by Robbie Deans. Most rugby media seem to have written the captain out of the script. McCaw may be the model but he seems more of a NZ model than one that would apply to the Wallabies.
Reading the original article and the various comments , make other rugby reporting pretty tame.
LeftArmSpinner said | June 11th 2008 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
zac, cut to the chase and put ya dad in a padded cell to respond to all of us rugby tragics 24/7.
Andrew Marks said | June 11th 2008 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
This wonderful article highlights what many of us yearn for and that is a return to true community. Where we work together with passion and caring rather than the cold robotic me-first winner-takes-all way of today.
What Robbie is doing is ensuring each player is focussed on a common goal and then empowering each individual to do so and be a leader in his own way. The reality is that not every play will always be successful and the Wallabies won’t always win but we won’t die wondering or through any lack of effort or imagination. Freeing the human spirit is a powerful thing to do!
Whether you like John O’Neill or not, he has learnt from his FFA days and delivered another Guus Hiddink, now it is up to players.
Glenn Condell said | June 11th 2008 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Lovely piece Spiro.
stuff happens said | June 11th 2008 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
An excellent article Spiro and we’ll find out very quickly how Robbie Deans will influence Australian rugby.
The Australian test programme between now and December is daunting, including no less than four tests against the All Blacks, three against the Springboks including back to back weekends in Durban and Jo’Burg. The there’s England, France & Wales and I think I’ve forgotten someone.
So gentlemen, and of course any ladies who care to join us, how many of these games do you predict Australia will win?
chas said | June 11th 2008 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
Spiro:
Get your facts right. I won’t embarrass you by pointing out all your errors but Robbie Deans does not live in Ellesmere nor did he play his football there. His club is miles away from Ellesmere. It is a club named Glenmark.
Secondly, his forebears did not arrive in the First Fleet in 1850. The Deans Brothers and their families were already in Canterbury when the first ships, the Charlotte Jane, the Sir George Seymour,( I’ll let you research the names of the other two ) arrived at Lyttelton, the main port of Canterbury.
You could also have included an error of omission. Did you recall that Robbie Deans was a leading member of The Cavaliers, a team that toured South Africa at the period of the Apartheid controversy? This team, which also included Robbie’s brother- in- law, Jock Hobbs, Grant Fox and other well-known RU players, were paid handsomely for participating in this tour which supported the Apartheid policy. They left NZ in secret and opposed the NZ government’s anti-apartheid policies. In fact, this tour created significant opposition (Yes-even in NZ ) from th NZ public and, in many ways, caused much loathing and repugnance but RU, NZ’s religion, ignored this and went on to enjoy itself in SA.
This is another facet of Robbie’s Rugby life. Do you know who sponsored this tour, Spiro? I’ve often wondered where the money came from. Perhaps this is something you could research. Perhaps there is another book to be published?
I’m not sure whether Jack Gibson or Wavne Bennett would have supported Apartheid but it appears that Robbie did.
Peter K said | June 11th 2008 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
Chas – I think it is drawing a long bowthat the Caveliers supported apartheid.
Out of the 30 players selected for the abandoned 1985 tour of SA , 28 were in the Cavaliers. That means all of them supported apartheid by your supposition.
It is possible they did not believe that politics and sport should mix. It is possible they just wanted to play a great rugby nation that they had never been able to. Maybe some of them just went for the money.
Maybe Deans went due to team solidarity and loyalty. He may have went because the majority had.
Or maybe he went as you propose, because he supported apartheid, and hence was racist, and believed in SA policies. Personally I do not think that.
I do believe that individuals may disagree with their governments stance on various policies. It is within the realms of possibility that they did not support apartheid but did not think that a rugby ban was an effective deterrent, as opposed ot trade embargos and trade bans.
kenikenipat said | June 11th 2008 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Chas,
I won’t embarrass you by pointing out that the fourth response to this article corrected Spiro on Ellesmere and that you are the 30th post.
Good one trigger
Harry said | June 11th 2008 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
What a good and uplifting read.
Deans and his team will have their work cut out though, there is no doubt Australian rugby, for one reason or another, lost its way after the Lions and 3N success in 2001. Since then truly excellent and uplifting performances have been extremely rare – the Brumbies in 04, the Tahs this year, the Melbourne win against NZ last last year, 49-0 agsinst SA in Brissy in 06, beating the Poms at Twickers in 04, RWC03 semi, Dunedin 02 – but by and large things have been very grim, with a steady deterioration in standards and culture on and off the field.
Predictions/measure of success? At least a 50% record away from home. I’d love to see some good away wins – at least 1 in SA, 1 against France or England at the year end and 1 against NZ in either NZ or HK. I’ll tolerate a few losses at home if that away record can be delivered. Vickerman and Elsom are big big losses though.
sheek said | June 11th 2008 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
Chas,
Methinks you a bitter man. Peter K summed it pretty well.
If I had been a leading rugby or cricket player in the 70s & 80s, I would have loved the opportunity to play South Africa, who had arguably their best ever cricket team in the early 70s, & arguably their best ever rugby team in the mid 80s.
Any sportsman wants to test themselves against the best.
ohtani's jacket said | June 11th 2008 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
If we’re gonna pick on mistakes, then “back to the heights that Rod Macueen took the side to in the glory days of the late 1980s and early 1990s” needs some work, unless this is a slight on Dwyer and praise for MacQueen’s work with the Waratahs.
ohtani's jacket said | June 11th 2008 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Oh, and I wouldn’t call Deans a racist, but the Cavaliers’ reasons for wanting to tour Souith Africa were naive. I have far more respect for those players who refused to go on official tours let alone rebel ones.
Peter K said | June 11th 2008 @ 4:13pm | Report comment
Chas – FYI, Buck Shelford a true great, a noted Maori player was also on the 1986 Cavalier tour. I suppose he supported Apartheid too? hmmmm? There were other Maori’s on that tour, he was just the biggest name IMO.
Rob said | June 11th 2008 @ 4:14pm | Report comment
It is so obvious that it gets taken for granted but a key to a successful coach is the personality of the coach. I know 2 former 1st grade Sydney coaches one of whom has moved up the ladder. They both had a command of the statistics of the game and were technically good but they each had revolting personalities to go with their inflated egos. The players despised them and it wasnt until it became clear to the club boards that the teams were underperforming that the coaches were asked to move on. Look at how West Harbour is going now with Stu Woodhouse and compare how basically the same players went under ex international coach Matt Williams. My point is that Deans may have the technical expertise but also he might be a good man who treats his players with respect. It is across the board in all walks of life and not just Rugby where often people get jobs because they look great on paper. When you get down and ask the employees ( players ) who worked with them sometimes it is a different story. If we read between the lines with NSW and Aust at times this could well have been the case.
Dwayne said | June 11th 2008 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
As a proud ‘One Eyed Cantabrian’, it pleases me immensely to see an article written about Robbie like this. He truly is a fantastic coach, leader and inspiration, and the Australian team are about to benefit from him.
It is about time the world got to see what Robbie is like as a manager and I wish him all the best.
Aussies’, you lucky, lucky people!!
Mark said | June 11th 2008 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
Dwayne, I’m another Cantabrian, I’m glad that NZ got to keep the coach with the best international record ever & we also get the Ockers to train Robbie as a national coach. When he comes back in a few years he’ll be even better for the experience as will the Wallabies & hopefully they’ll have groomed a local by then. Then again, maybe we’ll see Rob Andrews coaching the wallabies next (just kidding guys)
stuff happens said | June 11th 2008 @ 6:08pm | Report comment
Mark, Henry may have ‘the best int record ever’ I’ll take your word for it,but he lost the two most important matches of his life.I’m sure you know only too well what one of them was;the other was the final test against Australia when he was the Lions coach.You have the Poms in NZ at the moment, you could put a call in to Martin Johnson in London , the new English manager, and ask him his views of Graham Henry .( just kidding!!)
Thanks for lending us Robbie; I hope we have the wherewithal to make the most of him.The Australian team to play Ireland on Sat has Matt Dunning and Nathan Sharpe – ah well, maybe he’ll prove me wrong!
stillmissit said | June 11th 2008 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
Mark you could well be right in your analysis about training Robbie Deans. Still I bet there are no Australian supporters who would trade him for Henry in a month of Sundays. You keep the sour faced loser we are happy with our pick.
I also believe that we will cut him more slack in his first season than some of the Kiwi supporters would have.
Dublin Dave said | June 11th 2008 @ 7:09pm | Report comment
I found another error.
Cantabrian Ernest Rutherford was not the first man to split the atom. Although he was already a Nobel Laureate and director of the Cavendish laboratory where the experiments were carried out, credit for “splitting the atom” goes to two other researchers there, namely Cockroft and Walton who also won the Nobel Prize for their efforts.
Ernest Walton was one of ten Irish Nobel Laureates, and the only one to be awarded the prize for something other than poetry or peace making! As a very old man he once gave a guest lecture to a group of students at a Dublin University, one of whom was my sister, herself a first class honours graduate in physics and no slouch when it came to grasping the impenetrable concepts of nuclear and subatomic particle theory. But she was hugely impressed by Walton’s ability to break down the most difficult concepts into simple terms and explain them by way of suitable analogies to an audience of broadly educated but essentially lay people.
I bet he’d have been a great coach if he knew anything about rugby.
Rutherford’s great contribution to physics was his development of the nuclear model of an atom, where most of the weight of the atom is located in a central nucleus with charged particles orbiting around it like planets round the sun. Prior to that, people believed that the atom was structured like a Christmas pudding with all particles clustered closely together. Rutherford conducted an experiment when he bombarded a sheet of gold with high-speed particles that he would have expected either to be absorbed by the gold or to pass straight through. To his amazement, he found that some were reflected back which he likened to firing a cannon ball at a piece of tissue paper and seeing it bounce back towards you. So he developed his nuclear theory to explain this–they were bouncing off the heavy nucleus–and it has come to be accepted.
Next Saturday, Ireland could do worse than bear this homespun Cantabrian wisdom in mind when taking on the Wallabies. Don’t bash away at the Ozzie backline with our own backs who are either second choice (Wallace, Bowe) or perilously close to being has beens (O’Driscoll, Horgan) for backline defence is the nucleus of all Australian teams. Ireland will bounce off them like Rutherford’s Alpha particles.
Instead, take them on up front. Keep it tight. Kick for territory and take your chances when they come. And don’t be distracted by Aussie taunts that this is “Boring” play or making use of “outdated rules” that are soon to be phased out anyway. Reflect instead on the irony of a country whose national sport is cricket having the gall to describe anybody else as “boring” and just go out and win the bloody thing.
There. I knew I’d get it back to rugby sooner or later.
stuff happens said | June 11th 2008 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
As this blog is partly about the future of rugby in Australia under Robbie Deans I hope you all know that thanks to Foxsports we have some coverage of the Under 20 Rugby Championships from Wales.Some of these players will be in our teams in RWC 2011.The usual suspects are likely to prevail ie All Blacks, Springboks, Australia ( who all look awesome) and maybe England plus France or Wales.The IRB.com. site has a good rundown and some video clips and a key match between Australia and England is being shown on Sun morning.
Eljay said | June 11th 2008 @ 7:25pm | Report comment
Hey Guys, stop picking on Spiro. He wrote a wonderful, insightful article about Robbie Deans. Now please be quiet: I’m about to watch the next best rugby thing — State of Origin 2.
I may have more to write soon about splitting atoms (or hairs) and about the Cavaliers tour of SA way back whenever.
kenikenipat said | June 11th 2008 @ 7:41pm | Report comment
Thanks Dublin Dave, as a massive fan of Christmas Pudding I was stoked to see it in an article about RugbyX.. I mean atomsX….I mean how crap Spiro is…what was your point again
bob said | June 11th 2008 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
Jeeez… you know, last time this kind of adulation was seen, it led to a crucifixion!
It’s one thing to make the blind see, walk on water, calm the storm and raise the dead, but getting the wallabies to scrummage properly??? Come off it…
Jerry said | June 11th 2008 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
Dave – Well done, the “Rutherford split the atom” myth is fairly widespread. Though he theorised it could be done, he didn’t actually do it. He also didn’t think there was much practical use in doing so either for energy or weapons.
But one more nitpick – while he did graduate from the University of Canterbury he wasn’t actually from Canterbury), he was born and grew up near Nelson (which is part of the Crusaders catchment area, I guess, to bring things back to Rugby).
Dublin Dave said | June 11th 2008 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
Kenikenipat
My point, subtly rather than expressly made, is that you can relate lessons learned in every walk of life to the wonderful game of rugby. It is a metaphor for life’s struggle, for the harnessing of your strengths and the mitigation of your weaknesses in pursuit of your aims, for the combined necessity of talent and teamwork, and for coming to terms with the comparative importance of “success” or “failure”, two terms sometimes elevated to “triumph” and “disaster”, which to paraphrase another Nobel Laureate Rudyard Kipling, are just a pair of imposters of equal merit.
That I hung it on an inconsequential error of fact in Spiro’s original piece is coincidental. That small piece of nitpicking did not detract at all from his overall article on Mr Deans, which was very good. And anyway, such a small gaff is easily rectified.
Less easily repaired is Spiro’s guilt on the charge of error as the Catholic Church might describe it: a fatal adherence to a flawed doctrine inspired by the forces of darkness. In his case, it is the notion that “attractive” rugby is a goal and not a means to a goal, that the laws of the game can be amended regularly in pursuit of this false goal, that everything that has passed in the game hitherto is substandard and shoddy, and the refusal to accept that new laws will have unintended and negative consequences.
No amount of refutation can repair that error. Eternal damnation is the only solution.
Snow said | June 11th 2008 @ 9:37pm | Report comment
Great to respect the new man at the top, but let’s be honest following Jones & Connolly is not the toughest gig in the world.
Nevertheless it will be actions that breed deeper respect and to be honest the whole deal about reputations counting for nothing and a new broom etc etc looks a little less plausible after the first test team announcement.
Nathan Sharpe does not deserve a spot in the team or on the bench. Mortlock should not be the captain, Waugh is more deserving than Smith. Peter Hynes!! Lucky to be in the squad in the first instance but selected in the run on team? Give me a break.
To note on one hand that the Irish are bigger and more physical and to then announce a team with a channel on the edge of the ruck of those tackling superstars Giteau and Barnes suggests that the days of provincial selection agendas are still with us.
If this truly is the new broom then Burgess will be the captain by the end of the year, the Barnes experiment will be allowed to die the natural death it deserves and Hynes will return to Brisbane club rugby which is his natural level.
sheek said | June 11th 2008 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
Dublin Dave,
Being a man of knowledge on many levels, religion being one of them as I discovered from conversations in other mediums with you, & being a good catholic where guilt is carried with pride, what say the penance penalty to Spiro?
From my confessional days many decades ago, I’m thinking at least half a dozen hail mary’s, quite a few our father’s & perhaps several nauseating renditions of Advance Australia Fair, with particular emphasis on “girt by sea”.
kenikenipat said | June 11th 2008 @ 10:46pm | Report comment
Thanks for clearing that up Dublin Dave, now I just feel the latter in all those struggles. Weak, a failure and an imposter. It helps that, with absolution, I may still make it into the kingdom of rugby.
Dublin Dave said | June 11th 2008 @ 11:19pm | Report comment
Sheek
In this context of course, and bearing in mind Spiro’s association with rugby heaven, I suggest eternal damnation in rugby hell.
Which for him would probably mean being forced to watch interminable reruns of great English rugby victories, minus the ones where they actually threw the ball around a bit. So last year’s quarter final would feature prominently. As would their 1991 Grand Slam when they scored fewer tries than the team which finished bottom without a win. And various others in between.
My version of rugby hell would be enforced watching of rugby league matches, with a particularly cruel form of torture being my beloved Irish team forced to play that stripped down soul-dead version of the game. Or the ELVs as it is now called.
Gatesy said | June 12th 2008 @ 12:04am | Report comment
Once you get to 53 comments, the debate runs out of steam. Great piece, Spiro!!
mcxd said | June 12th 2008 @ 1:42am | Report comment
ill add one more Gatesy, how on earth did the NZRU let Deans go ? id be pissed if i was a kiwi.
bob said | June 12th 2008 @ 4:21am | Report comment
Gatesy, if it’s running out of steam mate, tap and go….
stillmissit said | June 12th 2008 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Snow agree that it aint hard to follow Jones and to a lessser extent Connolly but the selections you suggest, suggest you have been watching different rugby to me.
Admittedly Deans only had a hand in the selections which were mainly done by Pat Howard but I cant see a lot wrong with them (Sharpe aside).
Peter Hynes has played great rugby for Qld this year as did Horwill. Barnes is a stand out talent which most commentators here have observed. Waugh over Smith is hard to understand, Phil Waugh has fought himself to a standstill for NSW all season but he just doesn’t have the natural skills of Smith who also has been a stand out all season. The battle between these 2 for one positiion will go down in Australian rugby history.
Mortlock is the only captain – many full stops. If fit, would be my first pick of players.
Not sure if you are suggesting that Giteau and Barnes can’t tackle if that is the case we diverge again both are excellent tacklers with superb technique.
If Vickerman was fit we might have seen Sharpe on the bench but as it is there aint a lot of choice in jumping second rowers. Pity as I believe he is a disprin.
Harry said | June 12th 2008 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Snow I agree Sharpe and Dunning aren’t exactly inspiring selections but to be fair both of these previous failures in Wallaby jumpers had good S14s so they get another chance (may not have been the case for Sharpe had Vickerman been fit). stillmissit I read this morning Waugh has a slight hammy strain which tiopped the scales in Smith’s favour. Hynes over Turner? Fair enough, Turner actually only came good in the semi and final, Hynes was consistently good through the S14. Turner will be in the team sooner rather than later I’m sure. Snow look closely at Barnes game; nothing wrong with his defence.
stuff happens said | June 12th 2008 @ 9:54am | Report comment
You always know if a rugby blog is waning if someone introduces Catholic guilt! We have the Pope here in Sydney next month .The Catholic church has hoodwinked the govt to paying an extortianate amount of taxpayers money to host the event so that the Pope can lecture us on the sins of contraception, one of his favourite topics,and everything else we should all feel guilty about.
And they wonder why Australians drink!
stillmissit said | June 12th 2008 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Harry I agree about Turner and I expect him to take Lote’s spot. Big call but I believe that Deans will make a call on performance and Lote hasn’t been doing it for a while. Lots of running into traffic and causing problems, he is pretty good in defence but not a lot of breaks and tries.
Geoff said | June 12th 2008 @ 10:02am | Report comment
The Panzer Pope is coming to Sydney???
Chris Beck said | June 12th 2008 @ 10:26am | Report comment
I can’t evaluate the factual correctness of the opening piece, but I don’t care anyway, since it’s about the man running the Wallabies now.
It sounds to me like this is the sort of guy I’d want to coach my national team someday. Or if I have kids, my kids’ team.
Mark said | June 12th 2008 @ 10:31am | Report comment
stuff happens & still missit – we’ll just have to wait & see & I’m not expecting major Wallaby performance changes until next year – then if they can win the Bledisloe I’ll admit you were right & I was wrong about who the better international coach is. Dublin Dave – brilliant mate, really put a smile on my dial this morning. I’m going to the game on Sat night, don’t normally go to Wallaby games but this one should be a cracker. Although the irish seem to rank their scrum a bit too highly, your loosehead was folding for the entire test last week & I have zero idea how the ref failed to notice it, so even teh Wallaby scrum should have parity with them.
Mark said | June 12th 2008 @ 10:34am | Report comment
P.S.- Spiro, great article. I really enjoy reading your articles as you combine great insight & knowledge with a remarkable lack of bias, maybe that’s the Kiwi in you (just kidding)
Mark said | June 12th 2008 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Also, interesting that he’s got Farr Jones in to help develop Burgess. I wonder who he’s going to get in for the scrum ?
stillmissit said | June 12th 2008 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Mark I didnt know that. Did you read that somewhere or have you heard it?
Farr-Jones is interesting. Not sure that he could teach a half back in the current game much about the tactics etc but he may instill a few what to do’s about driving a pack of forwards around as he was, in my book, the best at that. There is some similarity between Burgess and Farr-Jones in the crisp pass and the energy around the field.
stillmissit said | June 12th 2008 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Now if only he would bring Topo in to help with the scrum.
chas said | June 12th 2008 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Mark:
How can this be a “great article” combining “great insight and knowledge”when it has been exposed as having so many factual errors? It makes me suspicious of Spiro’s previous articles and books. I have done a little writing and would be embarrassed to have produced something with so many mistakes. I feel for you, Spiro.
stillmissit said | June 12th 2008 @ 11:15am | Report comment
Chas I think you are more of a trouble maker than I am!
Enough already, we all enjoyed the article and although as you and Dublin Dave has pointed out there are a couple of factual errors but you must allow that Spiro must write each day to dead lines and this is not conducive to checking all quotes etc that is up to people writing books who have the time to research what they are saying.
In terms of journalism I would rather read Spiro’s stuff than have you picking at what others write. Try to concentrate on writing good stuff here yourself as a writer you know what we want to hear. Good stories and insightful observations that we havent thought of or agree or disagree with.
Eljay said | June 12th 2008 @ 11:28am | Report comment
Chas — Spiro is an icon. And he’s a journalist, as am I. I can’t speak for Spiro, but my view is we should never let the facts get in the road of a good/great story — and that’s what we got from Spiro (yet again).
LEAVE him alone or I will hit you with an opinion, ok?
The Link said | June 12th 2008 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
stillmissit – you’re a rugby fan and don’t read Wayne Smith? The Farr-Jones story is in the Australian today
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23848962-2722,00.html
No writer is above critique, it shouldn’t be about whether we like Spiro or not, his writing should speak for itself. For mine any writer that is willing to admit mistakes gets a tick, and Spiro is in this category.
Mark said | June 12th 2008 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
Stillmissit http://rugbyheaven.co.nz/4581747a22363.html – now if he sticks speed on the wings (instead of Tuqiri, & beefs up the tight 5 to match the rest of the team, it’ll be an interesting few years.
Chas – I was complimenting Spiro on his insight & lack of bias, the ‘fact’ that Glenmark isn’t Ellesmere donesn’t really bother me. If it leads you to qusetion all his writing past, present, & future, well that’s your choice, I’ll continue to enjoy his contributions.
stillmissit said | June 12th 2008 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
The Link – I am very grateful and have book marked it. Didn’t realise that the Australian had much of a rugby interest.
As much as we like Spiro his alter ego GGrowden just doesn’t do it. There he is going on about Hynes selection as the weakness in the team when anyone with eyes would know he has had a great season.
The other thing that pisses me is that whenever you see Hynes interviewed it is obvious that he is a bit shy and retireing. An article like that can affect a person like Hynes and I believe that Phil Mooney has managed to bring the best out in him by showing faith in what he can do. GG is again dropping depth charges into the Australian teams ego, we can live without him.
I hope Deans has a quiet word with Hynes before the game.
stuff happens said | June 12th 2008 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Mark
‘who will he get for the scrum’ In my view this is the right question.I think we have to leave it to Dingo Deans .We endlessly blame the front row in Aust but there is something(s) else missing as well. Until Australia fix this they will struggle against the best.
I’m looking forward to this weekend and see how the English scrum performs against the AB’s.I suspect Stevens, Mears & Sheridan will be their first choice front row by RWC 2011.
Glenn Condell said | June 12th 2008 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
‘‘who will he get for the scrum’ In my view this is the right question.’
I have seen the future of Australian scrummaging. It is big, it is mean, it is as stubborn as a pack of mules.
Come on down, Belinda Neal!
stuff happens said | June 12th 2008 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Nice one Glenn, unfortunately she’d be red carded in the first half hour of her first match; otherwise great potential.On the other hand perhaps Test match rugby is the anger management course she needs. Just think – a night on the town afterwards with Neal & Dunning.
Stop now….!!
Jason Cave said | June 12th 2008 @ 11:25pm | Report comment
Great article Spiro. I reckon not having one of their own (Robbie Deans) coaching the All Blacks will come back to haunt New Zealand Rugby. The NZRU have made some pretty weird decisions over the years, and this could be another example of New Zealand Rugby stuffing it up big time. How could they overlook a guy that has done more for Canterbury-and NZ rugby in general-and not make him All Black coach still has me amazed.
westy said | June 13th 2008 @ 12:51am | Report comment
I have read about Deans , heard him interviewed and seen his Crusaders play. That New Zealand let him go was foolhardy . However as to whether he has the troops or not at his disposal is the real question. In some positions depth has improved and we are in a better position to experiment at half, fly half and inside centre. However I saw Mortlock breakdown with his last injury and I have real doubts about his fitness. His style is direct and confrontational and invites injury especially as he gets older. and his passing game was always relative to say other world class centres ( of which he is one) is limited. If he goes there is a hole to fill. The front row still has question marks over it. My doubts are not over Deans and will not be irrespective of results. I think we are on the verge of developing some very good young players . My problem is whether we will have the patience to build a new team or be distracted by pursuing short term results.
Bruce Rankin said | June 13th 2008 @ 2:35am | Report comment
Another great article Spiro – as evidenced by so many comments from the Crowd.
While Geoff, Chas, Dublin Dave and Jerry did pick up some minor factual inaccuracies, it in no way detratcted from your excellent general theme on Deans the man. In fact the Deans family had an enormous impact in pioneering farming on the Canterbury Plains. I thought some history and a few facts may be useful In case you one day decide to write a book on Deans – and also may be of interest to readers here.
Just to complete the Ellesmere/Glenmark matter first though – the Ellesmere district is south of Christchurch and is the home of one Dan Carter. Glenmark is some 40 miles north of Christchurch, over the Waipara River at the start of the Omihi valley. It’s beautiful country – I drove through it the day after watching the Crusaders / Hurricanes semi-final.
The 2 pioneer Deans brothers William and John came from Ayrshire(?) in Scotland in their early 20’s I think. As Chas said they arrived in Canterbury in 1843 and established their substantial farm at Riccarton on the banks of the Avon River (which they named from the Avon in Scotland – NOT Stratford-on- Avon in England) – well before the First Four Ships arrived from England in 1850. The ships being the Charlotte Jane, Sir George Seymour, Randolph and Cressy.
Thus the Deans were were the first settlers on the Canterbury Plains. The site of the(ir) “First House on the Canterbury Plains in 1843″ is marked by a plaque and oak tree planted by John’s wife Jane Deans about 1884 on Kahu Road about 100 yards from the Avon River bridge opposite the current Christchurch Boys High School (CBHS). I believe William was drowned relatively early in a river crossing. John and Jane Deans had one son John, who in turn had about 9-10 sons and daughters – one of whom was the great Bob Deans and another the great(?)-grandfather of Bruce & Robbie Deans. The substantial farm at Riccarton was developed and they had further extensive farm holdings at Homebush, towards the foothills of the Southern Alps…not sure of exact location or history of Homebush property. Thus the Deans were THE major pioneering family in Canterbury, followed by many others. Bob Deans was known for his generosity to many of the touring 1905 All Blacks side.
Christchurch was laid out (to a design by the Adelaide architect) by leading 1850 settlers in a one mile square bounded by Bealey, Rolleston, Moorhouse and Fitzgerald Avenues, with the magnificent 600 odd acre Hagley Park adjacent to the west. Deans Avenue on the western side of Hagley park also formed the boundary of the Deans farm at Riccarton. It was almost certainly named in the 1850’s – years before Bob Deans was born in 1884! The magnificent Deans home – Riccarton House was developed in stages from 1856 through to 1900. Bob Deans and I believe most of his brothers attended Christchurch Boys High School – then in the city on the same block as the then Canterbury University College. The Deans Scholarship in memory of Bob Deans is the most prestigious award at CBHS.
As Christchurch expanded west the Deans farm at Riccarton was gradually subdivided and sold. In the 1920’s the Government compulsorily acquired some 28 acres for the new Christchurch Boys High School which was transferred from the city site and opened in 1926. It included the Deans weir over the Avon River and many of the Deans farm buildings used as bike sheds, phys ed room and the radio room. Unfortunately and probably inevitably the Deans family were not happy with this and I believe all subsequent Deans family members have attended the private Christs College! Including Bruce, Robbie and the noted artist Austen Deans.
Eventually all that remained at Riccarton was Deans Bush, Riccarton House and the lovely grounds on the banks of the Avon. These ended up around 1950 in the Riccarton House Trust and are open to the public, Riccarton House being used for functions, wedding receptions etc. I recall at the Canterbury Centennial in 1950 the Deans second house – a small 2 room cottage on the Avon next to the Kahu Road bridge – being moved in a special ceremony to a site just west of the main Riccarton House. One of Bob Deans brothers – John Deans (the third) and his wife – continued to live in a lovely section of the estate where the second house had been, until the 1960’s when he was in his nineties.
As an aside, from 1946 our family lived on the Avon River immediately opposite Riccarton House and Mr John Deans house, so as young boys we had great times playing in Deans Bush and the grounds opposite. Many neighbourhood boys played there too, including Graham and Brian Henry who lived nearby! Graham was in the same class as my brother Alastair (Bob) at both Ilam Primary School and CBHS for some 5 years and I think they played in the same Christchurch HSOB rugby teams. Bob later moved to Melbourne and played for Victoria against the 1971 Springboks. Graham Henry attained more illustrious heights! Tis a small world.
Unfortunately all the above is from memory as my books are in storage. Readers are welcome to point out my inaccuracies and fill in gaps!
However I thought it might be of interest to illustrate that Robbie Deans the man comes from the very highest pedigree of Canterbury pioneers.
Cutter said | June 13th 2008 @ 5:09am | Report comment
Thanks very much for the article Spiro.
I read somewhere that Deans used take his (Crusaders?) players out at night and take homeless people to shelters. Has anyone else heard/read this? Can anyone provide insight?
stillmissit said | June 13th 2008 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Bruce thanks for the background made interesting reading.
Westy – We have to have both. The short term goals are to get on the front foot and win, thus ensuring the media aren’t on his back and also build a squad that is capable of beating anyone in the world and on a regular basis. These are not insigniificant goals.
His other challenge is to find or build the talent, particularly in the front row that is not obvious at the moment, as we all know. Let’s hope he is successful and after he has gone on, hopefully for him to coach the All Blacks, then we don’t appoint another highly conservative, political muppet like E.Jones.
chas said | June 13th 2008 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Thank you, Bruce Rankin, for getting a few facts correct. I must add more to your stories about the Deans Family and provide Cutter with a few home truths. Yes, Cutter, Robbie has done an “enormous amount ” of social work in educating his Crusaders. Not many people would know how he has followed his father’s example in providing for the poor of Christchurch. “Legend hath it” that his father would go out on a winter’s night to the centre of Christchurch and distribute food and money to the poor. Few folk knew about this but Robbie certainly did. In recent years he has invited his Crusader team to follow him as he makes his way to Deans’ Avenue (NOT Drive, Spiro) and takes residence for a few hoiurs underneath what has come to be known as Deans’ Oak. Here he holds court with many of the citiy’s poorer people giving advice and money to these undesprivileged beings. He has attempted to keep this “story’ quiet and has sworn his Crusader players to do the same. For example, team members are requested not to wear any team gear. Such is his humility . Obviously, this has rubbed off on his players. It would be difficult to find a more humble group of sportsmen than the Crusaders. The amount of ‘good works” that they do in the community could not easily be measured. In one sense, i should never have written this article but in doing so it may provide yet another reason why Robbie’s boys are so successful. Australia is fortunate to have acquired him. Many more than you might think will mourn his passing!
Andrew Marks said | June 13th 2008 @ 10:14am | Report comment
Thanks Chas. You have been described as a bitter man – I now know why. I would be bitter too if I was a Kiwi. Losing an outstanding coach and an outstanding human being and being left with the Tew/Henry combo would drive me to apoplexy as well! I guess your earlier venting on Spiro was a release of that anger.
It is interesting that Robbie was quoted yesterday as saying “missing out on the All Blacks coaching position had been a blessing”. It would seem that the NSWRU and NZRU have much in common.
chas said | June 13th 2008 @ 10:32am | Report comment
Andrew: “Twas not venting anger at Spiro. I was merely seeking the truth… something that Spiro was not providing.
stuff happens said | June 13th 2008 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Although I’m delighted that Robbie Deans is coaching the Wallabies, this is just another chapter in his career. He’ll coach the All Blacks one day and will be all the better for having coached Australia to its third World Cup win and in NZ too.
Sorry Kiwis, couldn’t resist!!
Mike C said | June 13th 2008 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Just happened upon your article, Spiro and hasten to add my thanks for a splendid read.
Thanks also to Bruce Rankin for bringing back a host of memories to an old former Cantabrian and fellow Old Boy of Christchurch Boys’ High School. Well after Bob Deans and a little before Graham Henry!
stillmissit said | June 13th 2008 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
Chas – Ah! humilty the lost art of the talented.
Maybe it should also be the semi talented and sometimes the totally lacking in talent but have a big pile of ego.
stuff happens said | June 13th 2008 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
This blog has been about Robbie Deans, the fascinating history of his family and the excitement that his appointment has generated in Australia.I thought some of you might be interested in an excellent article by Frank Keating in the Guardian on the 25th anniversary of the death of another coach – Carwyn James.In the same way as Robbie is a hero in Canterbury, Carwyn is in Wales.I hope you enjoy this beautifully written piece article.
True believers still worship with King James version
Frank Keating
Tuesday January 8 2008
The Guardian
Thursday marks, unbelievably, a quarter of a century since Carwyn James died of a heart-attack aged 54. Rugby football was his game, but his legacy survives as the philosopher-king of all sports’ team coaches. You can come across inscrutable Chinese rowing coaches or earnest American basketball bods and they recognise any mention of him with solemn reverence and awestruck smile.
James was an unlikely one-off all right. A West Walian miner’s son with a passion for cricket and snooker; a scholar who could translate Chekhov and Turgenev into Welsh, the Mabinogion into Russian and Dylan into Italian; a Plaid Cymru evangelist and Gorsedd of Bards member, who chain-smoked and drank gin and tonic; he played fly-half for Wales, coached Llanelli to four successive Welsh cups, and, epically, the 1971 British Lions to their (still) solitary series victory against New Zealand.
He also wrote a Guardian column. I spent the weekend fondly tweezering out a few aperçus from those now parchmenty, print-faded pieces. Rugby has seismically changed since his death, but his remarkable percipience still shines. Here’s a delectable dozen:
· If I had my time again I’d be a soccer manager, not coach of a rugby club where half a dozen or more committeemen interfere with selection. As well, money now permeates rugby’s administration. Rugby must always be our aristocratic heritage, never a trade.
· The boring, unthinking coach continually preaches about mistakes. The creative coach invites his players to make mistakes. Adventure and error go together. I loved Lewis Jones’s way – “I may concede two, but I’ll score four!”
· I have relished studying coaching methods at Manchester United – heresy in rugby union – and also rugby league at Wigan – even more heinous heresy. The transfer of skills from one ball game to another should forever occupy the mind of a responsible coach.
· Mini-rugby too often substitutes fun for fear-of-error. It was created for youngsters with the best of intentions, but screaming mums, doting dads, and competitive coaches give it the image of a monster.
· Most memorable tries are launched from deep positions; great counter-attack always has an element of the adventurer’s daredevil desperation.
· Successful man-management is no more than demanding your team’s “cocky blighter” remains outrageously full of himself, and ensuring your morose grumbler can moan as much as he wants. Express yourselves, I tell my teams, not as you would at the office, but as you would at home.
· However “brilliant”, a young player must think and rethink his game many times over if he wants to graduate to a brilliant career. If he does not, it will be all too short, sharp and painful and (to round up Dylan) “we shall see the boy of summer in his ruin”.
· The most telling of any pre-match team-talk consists of just three words: “Think! Think! Think!”
· This new midfield “crash-ball” is disaster – hunks of manhood with madness in their eyes, battering-ram bulldozers happy to be picked off on the gain-line by just-as-large hunks from the opposing side. For what? Just to do it all over again.
· The laws need simplifying. The minor offence is, incredibly, still equal to the major. Referees strut and talk far too much; they must become less and less important.
· Back play at speed is becoming a pathetic apology, an insult to those who have graced it for a century. Flat-footed forwards now stand at centre: I ask you! And crowds clap aimless kicks-ahead – and pay £12 for the privilege.
· We are breeding robots. Is it the drudge and monotony of training sessions where everything’s done by numbers? Fly-halves even call moves before the scrummage forms – “miss one”, “dummy scissors”, “high up-and-under” and so on – regardless of the quality of the emerging ball. Coaches treat players like puppets on a string.
I was reminded of Carwyn at the extraordinary gathering at Stradey Park for the funeral this winter of his beloved protégé Ray Gravell. Both would have laughed at my memory of Carwyn’s memorial service, higher up the steep sheep-speckled mountainside above Llanelli in Cefneithin’s whitewashed little Tabernacle. Late, I’d driven at full-pelt from London, only to find a huge throng of mourners around the already burstingly cram-full chapel. Desperate, I implored a kindly steward: “I’ve come all the way from the Guardian to report the service.” Valiantly, he muscled me through the complaining multitude to the chapel elders’ jam-packed front pew, insisting: “Make room for this man, he’s very important – he’s from the Ammanford Guardian!”
· This article was amended on Monday January 21 2008. Carwyn James, the Welsh rugby union international and coach, was not an Eisteddfod arch-druid, as we said in the article above. This has been corrected.
Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited 2008
stillmissit said | June 14th 2008 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Well Guys it’s Saturday morning before the Ireland game and I am a bit worried. There appears to be nothing in the press about the forthcoming game apart from Giteau kicking and the requirement for the new recruits to stand up and be tested.
I think that we have all used up our allotment of emotion on Robbie Deans and have almost run out for the test match.
Snap out of it – All of us, the day of rekoning is upon us!
erina loo said | July 1st 2008 @ 10:00am | Report comment
from New Cantab…
Robbie’s ancesters were Scottish , not English. Deans Cottage near Riccarton Bush is the eldest building left on the Canterbury Plains. It was built by the first two Deans Brothers. The brother from whom Robbie is descended came here , bought land , then returned to Scotland to bring his wife over. She had one son then her husband died . This son had twelve children hence the prevalence of Deans family name in the Canterbury area . Riccarton House in the same area , is a former Deans family home which visitors can tour. There is also another former Deans family home in another suburb which welcomes visitors. To many visitors , Christchurch has a very” English feel” but there were in fact some very successful Scottish settlers. They were known for their philantrophy and several family Trusts still keep giving to the local community years after their founders have passed on..eg the McKenzie Trust.
Anyone with more interest in the family could do more research..A visit to Deans Cottage , Riccarton House and Riccarton Bush is well worth it especially on a fine Christchurch day. Riccarton House includes a cafe.
Robbie exhibits the values of his ancestors. If these inpire Aussies , all well and good.
Robbie fan and New Cantab
Brendan said | November 14th 2008 @ 7:23am | Report comment
Chas
Get a life mate most people accept that apartheid was wrong and have moved except people with an axe to grind like yourself, presumably.
Maybe you are bitter about SA winning the world cup last year while your chokers blew it once again?
Regards,
Axelcain said | May 15th 2009 @ 7:49pm | Report comment
I thought I recalled this article following the current prominence the league sex story is commanding. i think it sums up some of the issues the league hierarchy should be confronting – unfortunately I am sure that it also happens in rugby , AFL and football. I just heard that a 20 yr old Aus soccer player is being or has been charged with having sex with a 13 yr old. I suspect there is a lot of ‘outing’ to come
Juen 11 2008 Spiro Zavos
“I remember talking with Robbie Deans about the views of Cecilia Lashley, a New Zealand social worker who has written some interesting books on how young men can be aggressive on the field of play and non-violent off it.
Deans has tried to implement her methods with the Crusaders, and will certainly do the same with the Wallabies. In a sense, this interest is a modern take on the Bob Deans mentorship role.
In this way, Robbie Deans has many of the attributes of coaches like Jack Gibson and Wayne Bennett. There is a laconic speech pattern. The words are few but they weigh a lot.
There is the concern about the total player, with improvements on and off the field, being the goal. The improvements are all about the issue of responsibility. Players are expected to be responsible for what they do and are given skills to achieve good outcomes, on and off the field.
Discipline and the desire to constantly improve are internalised. So you won’t get Deans imposing curfews and so on. The players are expected to do the right thing because they want to, not because they are forced to.
There is nothing soft about this approach. Players are treated with respect. They are given the chance to improve. But if they don’t rate, they don’t get selected. “