By JB
June 16th 2008 @ 6:57am
Loading ...Where did the Bears go?
The North Sydney Bears: yes they played boring football with uninspiring halves such as Greg Florimo and Jason Taylor.
Yes they actually payed Brett Dallas, yes they were responsible for Ben Ikin, yes their best players were second string Queensland heroes such as Martin Bella, Gary Larson, Billy Moore and the aforementioned Dallas and Ikin – but where did the North Sydney Bears go?
Well after a short lived and ill-fated merger with Manly they dissolved. To many, Manly agreed to the merger without any true intention of successfully integrating with their long time regional rivals. They pocketed the merger money that was on the table and then left them high and dry 3 years later.
With many Sydney clubs now in financial distress (go on Matthew Johns blame the government) the move to the central coast of NSW is back on the cards with an million dollar reward from the NRL for the club that goes. This was once the home (one of two – the other being Brookvale) of the Northern Eagles, the merged club between Manly and Norths.
As Brookvale continues to crumble and the Central Coast Mariners prove them wrong for not giving it a better go earlier, it appears that all Sydney clubs would rather be pushed than persuaded into making the move to the central coast now.
With Holmes a Court leaving Russell to deal with creditors over at the Rabbitohs, Parramatta unable to inspire their players to take a pay cut to save their bank balance, the Tigers in the midst of a development nightmare and with Wests more than willing to take over the NRL license Manly style, the Dragons are proving that no one wins on the pokies. Manly look all but safe thanks mainly due to a multi million handout expected from the NSW state government.
So which clubs should go? Should the decision be purely financial? Or does history and geography come into play?
From the last round of club carnage, the NRL took no notice of history when letting the North Sydney Bears fold nor took any notice of geographical boundaries, with Cronulla emerging as a small island engulfed by the new St George-Illawarra Club.
Economically, surely those clubs that aren’t financially viable or, more accurately, hung their futures on the back of the pokies, have a tough case to argue that they should remain at the potential expense of those clubs that focused on high game attendances/a solid fan base/high membership and smart sponsorship arrangements.
The strangest thing to come out of all this is that players don’t want to play at ANZ Stadium because its empty. Well this just about sums it up, people aren’t going to the games and for too long the fans have been given the arse over those who play the pokies. The math is simple, you neglect your fans you lose the club.
It would be easier to start again than reduce 8 (9 including Penrith) Sydney based teams down to the more realistic 4 /5 clubs that Sydney can support. For example there are only 9 london teams that have ever played in the EPL (Arsenal, Charlton Athletic, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Queens Park Rangers, Tottenham, West Ham and Wimbledon) with Wimbledon FC being forced out of London in 2003-04. If a population close to 8 million can’t support 9 teams in their first division than I don’t think a city the size of Sydney can.
I would propose a simple East, West, North and South arrangement plus Penrith and lets be honest Penrith is nowhere near Sydney. You mountaineers have to be joking when you say you live in Sydney, you live in the sticks – isn’t that right Professor?
But seriously, I think a strong geographic recognition has to be the starting point. I would just simply establish the borders on a map and issue one licence for each quadrant and all clubs within that quadrant would then need to battle/merge with each other or relocate in order to play in the NRL.
Simplistic? Yes, but at the end of the day, nothing can be said to console the supporters of the club that goes and nothing can be done to reverse the poor managerial decisions of those clubs that are now facing the axe.
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Rabbitz said | June 16th 2008 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Norths haven’t gone very far at all. In fact they are undefeated in Premier League in 2008. Why do I mention this, the central reason why an arbitrary quadrant allocation of license will struggle is why. Tribalism and history. As an example Norths still have many die-hard followers – this is a large part of why the merger failed. Ask Illawarra Steelers fans if they are happy with the merger, Wests fans etc.
By creating four brand new, history free, supporter free entities you will struggle to get bums on seats. Don’t believe me? Ask The Central Coast Rays or the Sydney Fleet.
Supporting a sports team isn’t merely about geography it is about feeling part of a tribe with a history, this feeling comes not from a marketing manager but from the supporters around you.
Yes, pretty much all of the footy clubs started geographically, but they were started by people who had the drive and determination to get a club up and running, without the need to be financially successful, to the tune of millions, in the first year. They didn’t need bums on seats they just needed players. The problem now is a new franchise, that has no supporters needs, players, officials, staff, merchandising, sponsors etc etc etc (And MONEY) without having a single supporter in its income base.
So when you kill off the clubs and their history, alienating a huge number of potential supporters who will never come back, how do you propose to create this fan base & therefore the much needed income stream?
Lofos said | June 16th 2008 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Hmmmm,
I agree that parochial support provides a strong foundation to the game … but, there is strong evidence to say that it’s not enough to continue in a national competition. The AFL is slightly different in that they are still drawing immense crowds even to suburban games – over 20.000 in Geelong. In the ARL you only get those numbers to top flight games – some round by round but mostly finals and rep games. It is to the detriment of Rugby League if they don’t see the writing on the wall … Glebe, Annandale, University, Newton, North Sydney have all but disappeared from the top echelons of the game. In the case of Newtown and Norths they still maintain a presence in good local competitions.
I reckon the ARL should wipe the slate clean, bank on a couple of years grumpiness from fans and start again with a new formula for the Sydney area, we’ll cope. History is always an evolving thing and it’s time for a new deal – there will be imaginative ways of celebrating the history of the clubs in Sydney and anything has got to be better than the continual soap opera of South Sydney.
Clarky said | June 16th 2008 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
Whilst we’re talking mergers, why not go the whole hogg and get rid of this ugly 100 year split of League and Union? One national competition, merged entities. Promotion and relegation. No more poaching of players. The big question then becomes which rules and code do they play under…
sheek said | June 16th 2008 @ 4:14pm | Report comment
Stillmissit/Clarky,
On the weekend John O’Neill finally said publicly what many people are thinking privately – that Australia might not be able to afford two professional rugby codes. David Gallop’s response was typically dismissive, but league’s position of apparent success is illusory.
The truth is, league has been living beyond its means for over a decade (propped up by News Corp), it’s territorial boundaries are largely stagnant, & it has never enjoyed enjoyed the same “top end of town” support as union, soccer & AFL.
AFL is safe because it is the most popular footy code in Australia. Soccer is safe because it is the world game. But union & league may be in a death struggle, from which only one will survive.
League’s more dominant position in Australia will be of little comfort to them because union has far greater pull in the international field.
Anyway, somebody had to say it, there ain’t room enough at the inn for both union & league, whether in Australia or worldwide.
stillmissit said | June 16th 2008 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
Sheek
I dont normally comment on league blogs as I dont know enough to comment on it. I would like to point out a scenario that a lot of us in Union have not considered and that is League taking over Union and slowly moving to Union or keeping League alive in Australia whilst expanding it’s footprint. This would also allow the Gallop of the future to cross code players with ease and cut out the player managers ability to negotiate one code against the other.
In Union if J O’Neil goes, a drop kick with a blazer and over an confident attitude could easily financially screw rugby union. They have tried it before and almost succeeded.
Spiro Zavos said | June 16th 2008 @ 6:53pm | Report comment
The NSW RL competition was based on the tribalism of the districts the teams represented. I think it would be a huge mistake to jettison this model, completely. Alex Buzo lived across the road from me and his heart was broken, and his deepest affection for RL shattered, when his beloved North Sydney Bears were squeezed out of the premiership. There are tens of thousands of people like Alex, I reckon, who used to support the other clubs that have been squeezed out of the premiership over the years.
Darcy said | June 16th 2008 @ 7:45pm | Report comment
As an Irishman with Australian family connections I have a keen interest in what happens in the NRL. I was best man at a wedding in Sydney on Australia Day and many of the older people I spoke with afterwards told me that they have lost interest in rugby league since the Super League denouement.
One of the main reasons cited was the loss of community and spirit that has resulted from adopting the franchise model and relocating games to Homebush. I can see their point. I am far more likely to spend money to see Dublin play gaelic football in the All Ireland Championship, and Leinster in the Heineken Cup and Magners League than I am to go and see Manchester United play at Old Trafford. Why? Because the players come from my community, I know some of them, we grew up and went to school together, we share the same stories. It’s hard to really buy into a team if there isn’t an emotional connection.
Simply breaking Sydney into four quadrants and calling them North, South, East and West won’t work. You can’t walk away from such a rich heritage. You’ll need to maintain and integrate the symbols and rich traditions of the last 100 years of rugby league in Sydney. I loved the stories in Roy Masters “Bad Boys” and brought a few copies home to give to mates. Ignore the past and dispense with heritage and tradition and people like Roy won’t have stories like that to tell anymore.
sheek said | June 16th 2008 @ 8:09pm | Report comment
Stillmissit/Spiro/Darcy,
As a kid I loved league, & still love it’s history. Some of the guys who have played league, us rugger buggers can only drool about. I have many friends who love their league, especially Rabbitohs fans. I know they would be heart-broken, if the Rabbitohs folded a second & final time.
It’s true league is built on tribalism, & that is an admirable thing. Although I don’t understand why league tribalism hasn’t worked in the same way as AFL tribalism. Specifically, when say a young Carlton fan grew up & moved to the outer suburbs to live, he & his family growing up still supported carlton, the club of his father, grandfather, etc. The same hasn’t necessarily happened with league in Sydney.
Demographically, the north shore of Sydney is union. There’s Norths, Gordon, Eastwood, Manly & Warringah. In league, there used to be only Norths & Manly-Warringah. Now it’s only the Sea Eagles. The east is perhaps even between the 2 codes, while the west & south are very much league territory.
Because of its international influence, union will win any long-term battle. League’s best bet would be to see it’s icons integrated into union’s premier comps. Sad, but that may be the reality.
As much as the northern hemisphere might “bag” Australia’s leaguie tendencies, they would bend over backwards to keep Australian rugby in the “family”, if for no other reason than to keep bagging us! It’s all about the “family”.
True Tah said | June 16th 2008 @ 8:50pm | Report comment
Stillmissit,
I can’t see league ever taking over union, well maybe in Australia, there are no semi-pro league comps in Japan, Italy or Ireland. Sheek I can’t see why the IRB or any other union would want to help the ARU out, the ARU has benefitted more from Super Rugby than either SA or NZ, and quite frankly there are a stack of other countries out there, who are displaying a bit more interest in rugby and are poorer – i.e. Georgia, Tonga, Fiji, Madagascar, Kenya, etc, etc.
IMO, League’s greatest strength in Australia (i.e. people identifying its suburbs) is its greatest weakness, as despite what people say, not a national comp. A lot of people who don’t understand league bag out names like the Rabbitohs, Roosters, Eels, but these names reflect each of the areas these team comes from, and if they changed, it would not be a good thing for the name. The Bears (a team I gre up supporting) are perhaps an unfortunate sign of things to come, I hope it does not come to that though.
Sledgeandhammer said | June 16th 2008 @ 9:22pm | Report comment
If league clubs in Sydney do fold/ amalgamate it would leave rugby holding the can for local derbies in Sydney. Last weekend there were some great games in the shute shield, between team like Manly vs Warringah. I think this is a good thing. In the history of the football codes national expansion is a relatively new phenomenon, who knows if it will ultimately succeed? Now many national comps can we support? A niche sport in Sydney (Australia’s biggest market) might actually do very well long term by playing on existing and historical rivalries.
Midfielder said | June 16th 2008 @ 11:08pm | Report comment
Some have said league is living beyond its means, …………. not quite true its the News owing half and taking half the income that is the real loss maker ……….. not sure how they solve that one but it is leagues major problem IMO.
The Central Coast will not accept a transfered team, it wants its own team the Mariners from very humble beginnings and with a lot of hard work, very skillful local management have focused the coast into being a region that is entitle to a team of its own.
The Mariners are a wonderful example of an area with little football tradition, ……….. but an area ………… RL & RU took for granted. What happened was at first hostile we want a league team no some sissy soccer team, from crowds of 3 & 4 thousand in season one with a season average of about 7, 000 they have almost doubled there crowds, and with no one else there been allowed to stake a place in the hearts of the locals.
So people who would have happily accepted a re location want there own now they have the model and it would be quite successful if it was a local team.
As an aside JON comments on RL to me do not make sense as as see RL quite strong with maybe a couple of teams going under but this would allow expansion to Perth / PNG maybe Sunshine Coast.
westy said | June 17th 2008 @ 1:09am | Report comment
To JB…et al……there seems to be some misnomer that the AFL clubs do not earn significant revenue from the pokies…just ask Collingwood over $28 million …from pubs and clubs it directly owns and for the game as a whole over $100million. It is just that they have a much greater and diverse revenue base.
In the 1980’s the AFL was the first code to fully appreciate the forces suburbanisation in Melboune and its possible future impact on the mostly inner city clubs. They drove the strongest membership drive of any code in Australia developing a new club model… member orientated and financed together with corporate finance.at all levels.
League continued with its 1960’s Community Leagues club fairy godmother financed football clubs . This had in fact been successful but failed to cope with similar forces of suburbanisation in Sydney.That there will be further restructuring of clubs in Sydney is without argument. There are to many clubs around the CBD and the south of Sydney.
I would remind my fellow rugby friends that even with Brookie in a state of disrepair in the pooring rain Manly sea eagles attracted more paying customers than the Notrhs/ Gordon/Manly/ Warringah/ Eastwood rugby clubs combined.on the same weekend . Great……We will be left with local derbies attended by few like minded people their family and friends. in areas that do not produce many children….. I have been to those before.
Singleton still has a standing offer to any league club to relocate to Bluetongue of $8 million. Their must be a team on the Central Coast . The fit with the Mariners is too good to resist. League is having some success in sharing costs and / or ovals /medical etc. not with rugby clubs who are closer related but with football clubs eg. ..Gold Coast/, Roosters/Melbourne/Townsville/Newcastle. Sadly rugby clubs have little to offer and are even more behind the 8 ball.
League clubs must develop new models for their clubs . They must drive for members. In fact Melborne Storm no doubt influenced by the local culture has the highest membership of any league club of around 13000. Small though in comparison to AFL club membership. Melbourne’s 2007/8 loss of $5million was funded by News LTD. ( some would argue small compensation for the $250 million it gouges out of League’s TV revenue.)Nevertheless Waldron has estimated the Storm will break even in 2010/11 . This estimate does not include possible increased revenue from the new rectangular stadium.
The Cowboys despite their poor year still have active local corporate support and coucil.support.
Brisbane Broncos run at a profit and the Gold Coast Titans are a revelation, well financed with local corporate support at all levels.Newcastle has finally renegotiated its arrangement with Newcastle Wests and will now generate and receive its own merchandise revenue.
Canberra will survive . Its regular losses are not as big as other clubs and continues to be funded . Surprisingly League has real options in Perth its fastest growing junior area in Australia. The Reds Jim Beam Cup team in the third tier competition attracts 2500/3000 to its games. The Western Reds reincarnated. Laterally it would be to have an NRL team in Papua /New Guinea.
The Western Sydney clubs of Parramatta and Penrith And The Bulldogs are the best placed to pursue new membership financed and orientated model of development.
Of the inner city clubs the Roosters is a monolith. The salary cap holds it back and keeps it in check. Its corporate support is very strong. The league will not touch the merged clubs of St George-Illawarra or Wests Tigers. In fact Wests Tigers has one of the lowest levels of pokie support and is primarily corporate funded. Cronulla is vulnerable.
In the twilight world of a merged code one can only hope the leaguies run the national club competition. For one thing the NSWRU can hardly run a chook raffle . Rugby has always been niche orientated sport always looking for an inclusive audience. Rugby ’s national club competition was a dismal failure . Really rugby has never been interested in or good enough to run a professional club competition The leaguies want a national audience. They seek to create a spectacle just what the local community wants. We could even get Channel 9 to televise. Compared to the State of Origin that Channel 7 coverage of the Rugby test was second rate .The ARU can run the internatinal competitions.
Remember the AFL funds Melbourne , North Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs regular losses from its special grants reserves. League’s reserves are taken by News LTD. The AFL has better managed its loss of clubs in Fitzroy, South Melbourne and Footscray. It can be done . League has just not done it well.
League’s crowds in Sydney suffer sometimes because paradoxically it is a great television sport. With Sydney’s transport it is so much easier to watch at home with a beer in hand. . This is the rub. Its television ratings in NSW and QLD are intimidating . They even put a shiver in the AFL in these markets and downright palsy in informed rugby circles. On television over a year rugby is a long way behind league. Rugby’s super 14 ratings improved this year but still are only just in front of League’s semi professional U/20 competition. Why rugby could not have tried to develop a competition at this level is beyond me. In any merged code locally rugby needs some form of league and its professional club system. I can just see them pining to play Sydney University. The reality would be Sydney Uni would be in the Jiim Beam Cup.
Redb said | June 17th 2008 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
I think Westy is right about management of clubs in difficult times. It may surprise that Geelong was a financial basket case 5 years and needed help. Hawthorn almost merged in the early 1990s – look at those two clubs now – on top of the ladder with a huge membership base and merchandise sales through the roof. Carlton was on it skids not that long ago, now in the 8 with a rejuvenated list, its future looks bright, it can market Judd, Fevola, Kruiser as stars of the club. I think most sports move their best players around too much at club level, this may be a fact of life in soccer, rugby, basketball,etc but fan loyalty through club memership is built up by being able to watch the ‘champions’ of your club week in week out, year after year.
The NRL has been too savage with its tradtional supporter base. It cannot let a club die it should instead relocate and keep the member faithful – although they will be pissed off in the early years, once success comes their way it is an amazing healer. Case in point: Lions in 2002, Swans in 2005.
North Sydney Bears had the best colours in the NSWRL – red and black. Bring ‘em back.
Redb
sheek said | June 17th 2008 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
Westy,
Good research.