In a list of the 10 greatest athletes, Bradman reigns
Columnist
By Spiro Zavos, 19 Jun 2008 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
Tiger Wood’s heroic and brilliant win on one leg (rather like Ben Hogan’s victories after his horrific car crash) have set sports writers away on naming their 10 best athletes of all time.
Here’s the Wellington Dompost’s Fred Woodcock’s list:
1. Muhammed Ali: ‘widely regarded as the sportsman of the 20th century’
2. Carl Lewis:’the best track and field athlete’
3. Pele: ‘widely regarded as the best footballer of all time’
4. Michael Jordan: ‘highest scoring average in the NBL’
5. Tiger Woods: ‘will undoubtedly eclipse any major records he currently doesn’t have’
6. Mark Spitz: ‘remains the only Olympian to win both a gold medal in every individual event he entered in a given year, and to set a world record in each event’
7. Haile Gebrsellaise: ‘two Olympic gold medals, eight world championships, and 25 word records’
8. Eddie Merckx: ‘the most successful and best all-round cyclist’
9. Don Bradman: ‘regarded as the best batsman to grace the game’
10. Rod Laver: ‘won 11 grand slams, including all four tournaments in the same calendar year twice.’
This seems like a good list to me, although I would dispute some of the placings.
The SMH also published an interesting article by Greg Baum on his 10 best:
Muhammed Ali; Pele; Lance Armstrong; Don Bradman; Jack Nicklaus; Roger Federer; Jesse Owens; Michael Schumacker; Mark Spitz; Michael Jordan.
The lists have five of the same athletes: Ali, Pele, Bradman, Spitz and Michael Jordan.
Baum prefers Federer as his tennis player over Laver. I’d support Laver on this one.
His two grand slams indicate that he was better on all surfaces than Federer, though both players won 80 per cent of all their matches.
Nicklaus over Woods?
I think we should wait until Woods’ career is finished until he is elevated above Nicklaus. This will happen.
Woods wins 28 per cent of the gold tournaments he enters, a phenomenal Bradman-like ratio given the fact that a golfer has to defeat everyone in the tournament, unlike, say, a tennis player who defeats only eight or so opponents to win a tournament.
Nicklaus won 12 per cent of his tournaments.
And to put these statistics into a context, Baum points out that Greg Norman won six per cent of his tournaments.
Jesse Owens over Carl Lewis?
Both were sprinters and long jump champions. Lewis won ten Olympic gold medals between 1984 and 1996. Jesse Owens won four gold medals at the only Olympics he ran at.
My inclination is for Jesse Owens for reasons purely of nostalgia for the Olympics before intensive coaching and drug-taking.
Eddie Merchx or Lance Armstrong?
The issue here seems to be specialisation (seven successive Tour de France’s for Armstrong) against all-round riding (in 1974 Merchx won cycling’s Triple Crown)
Greg Baum also throws up the names of squash’s Jahangir Khan (555 unbeaten matches in a row) and Heather Mackay (unbeaten in a 19-year career).
And Walter Lindrum, also unbeaten in 21 years and one of the few athletes whose extreme skill forced significant changes in the rules of his sport.
And finally, Baum reckons that Bradman is the greatest of the greats.
I would think that it is difficult to go past this assessment. Bradman’s average in Tests of 99.94 is more than 30 runs more than the next best, which includes Michael Hussey whose average is coming down from the 70s to the lower 60s as he plays more Tests.
It would be interesting to hear what readers of The Roar think about these best athletes lists.
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swifty said | June 19th 2008 @ 7:04am | Report comment
Ali relied heavily on hype. I’m not saying he wasn’t good, its just that he told us so often how good he was that I think it blurred the reality a bit. Maybe its just that sharing the same nationality as Bradman makes me appreciate his less direct assessments of his personal ability. Bradman probably is statistically the best but I would imagine most people would pick Pele for his achievements in soccer.
He’s probably not in the same class as these guys but Mick Doohan was a great rider who had a very down to earth demeanour. His accomplishments are magnified by the injuries he sustained. Remember – its not what you achieve, its what you overcome. I guess Rossi has probably well and truly passed him for achievements now but, heaven forbid, I wonder how he’d go with a wooden leg and locked thumbs.
A bit of an off the wall entry but what about Sir Ed Hillary? Can we call mountain climbing a sport? If so he and Norgay should get a mention. Like I said, a bit off the wall.
Monty String said | June 19th 2008 @ 8:24am | Report comment
I’m amazed that Jim Thorpe didn’t make the list. All the people mentioned were wonderful at their chosen discipline, but Thorpe was wonderful at several sports. In the 1912 Olympics, he easily won the pentathlon (javelin, discus, long jump, 200 meters, 1,500 meters) then later on the same day, that’s right, the same day, walked away with the decathlon.
At college, he was his university’s entire track and field team. He played pro basketball, and pro baseball for the Giants and the White Sox. His football career was sensational. In one game, he had a 94-yard touchdown nullified. On the very next play, he ran it in from 97 yards. He was a football star up to the age of 41.
So when people list the greatest athlete, what’s the definition of athlete? They’ve started to refer to race horses as athletes. That can’t be right.
Babe Ruth didn’t make the list and yet he was a star pitcher before he became an unbelievable hitter. He was the Bradman of baseball, but then the Don could only bowl some soft spinners. So if it’s versatility that makes an athlete truly great, you’ve got to give the nod to Jim.
PS – Some of the people on the list have feet of Clay, you should pardon the pun. Henry Cooper knocked out Ali but Ali was saved by his cheating manager. And the defeat of Liston was a mob job.
Oh, and by the way – Jim Thorpe was also a national ballroom dancing champ.
True Tah said | June 19th 2008 @ 8:36am | Report comment
Agree Monty String,
Jim Thorpe was in fact referred to as the greatest athlete of the first half of the 20th Century – I understand a lot of Australians don’t really understand US sports, but the bloke not only play professional football and baseball and won Olympic gold medals.
I generally agree with the list, but Thorpe should have been on there, and Im not sure about Michael Schumacher, sure he is perhaps the best driver which takes intense concentration, but does that meet the definition of athlete?
Mart said | June 19th 2008 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Difficult – impossible ! – for me to disagree with any of these names really, I think we’re just debating the order ? On a related tangent…would any rugby player (league or union) come close to making these lists ? John Eales maybe ? Doubt any would given the stature and ‘worldwide instant recognition’ of the names on these lists, not sure a rugger player is up there with them ?
Spiro Zavos said | June 19th 2008 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Monty Spring has made a terrific case for Jim Thorpe. He would defintely be on my list of the greatest athletes.
Ali certainly would not. There are a number of heavyweight champions, Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, particularly who would have defeated him, if they had fought when in their prime.
The same applies to Michael Schumacher.
The case of Ed Hillary and Sherpa Tenzing is an interesting one. What is a sport? Should it entail some form of competition and points scoring? Was the race to the North Pole a sport?
Kurtos said | September 10th 2009 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
Definitely Owens over Lewis and Al Oerter over Lewis too. Why? There’s not the slightest suspicion of drug abuse by the O men. NY Times writers working on a book about the rightfully disqualified Ben Jonson uncovered some damning information about Lewis’s “nutritional regimen”. They argue that since he was the big crowd attractor at the time he wasn’t under the same degree of scrutiny. Isn’t it odd that with all the discoveries of drug abuse in track and field, accompanied by comments by the sports leading lights, we haven’t heard a word from Carl. Strange silence, I reckon.
paulmc said | June 19th 2008 @ 9:06am | Report comment
There was an interesting letter to the editor in today’s (Thursday) SMH pointing out that this list refers only to males and then asks about players like Margaret Court (Smith) – tennis & Heather Mackay – Squash
Towser said | June 19th 2008 @ 9:28am | Report comment
I guess its all subjective this best sportsman/athlete thing.
A bit like naming the 10 best ever painters,singers,composers etc.
If your like me I’d totally ignore Picasso & other “modern art” painters and go for the classic landscape or potrait painters.
Why because in my mind I admire anybody who can create a photo like replica on canvas of a mountainous landscape or a mother & child. Show me an eyeball centred in the middle of a cube & you,ve lost me
If I chose Pele you would accuse me of being bias because I’m a football fan.
If you were a cricket fan & chose Bradman the same bias allegations could be applied.
I’ve seen many of these greatest athlete things over the years. The problem with them is their always open to subjectivity.
Are we looking for the best all round athlete as per Jim Thorpe?
What is an athlete?
Can Tiger woods or anybody else for that matter be considered an athletes bootlace compared with the stamina & mental strength of men who power up mountains on a push bike.
Or could Pele absorb the physical punishment handed out to Ali during the rumble in the jungle or go one round with a man described as hitting you with fists like an iron anvil, Sonny Liston or face the man who may decide that your ear is lunch for the day Iron Mike Tyson.
If consistency is the go then Tiger Woods Pele Bradman Jordan Laver fit the bill. Or Federer or Maradona before he starting sniffing the white markings on the field.
Controlling a ball to make it do your bidding. Different methods of execution, but cant go past Pele Maradona Federer Bradman etc.
Perhaps whoever conjures up these lists needs to clearly define the criteria on which they based their list.
Then of course the arguments will start over what is the best criteria for determining the 10 greatest athletes.
El Capitan said | June 19th 2008 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Didn’t Jordan play in the NBA, not the NBL?
sheek said | June 19th 2008 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Firstly, a throwaway gibe – God (being an American) has decreed that the best in any sport played by Americans, must be an American!!! Now that I’ve got that out of the way!
Re Jim Thorpe, agree 100%. He was actually voted in 1950 by the US Sports Writers Association, or whatever they call themselves, as the greatest athlete of the first half of the 20th century (sorry Monty String & True Tah, only just re-read your posts).
Thorpe succeeded in professional baseball, Michael Jordan did not. Thorpe is truly sensational, his feats only matched by the opposite woeful way in which he was treated by the establishment.
Re Ali, love the guy, but agree there were better boxers. But herein lies a conundrum – what makes a great boxer? Ali didn’t have the punching power of other great boxers, but his ringcraft was unmatched. And aren’t we continually told boxing is a science?
In the early 80s I think it was, a computer generated world heavyweight boxing championship over 15 rounds (quite advanced for the time) was conducted between Ali & Rocky Marciano. Marciano definitely was declared the winner, but I can’t recall if it was on points, or a late knockout.
At the time, being a huge Ali fan, I couldn’t believe the result. But I’m older & wiser these days (I hope).
One interesting thing about Bradman. Throughout his career, apart from the 1932-33 Bodyline series, Bradman didn’t have to face too many fast bowlers of quality. In the 1930 & 40s, the bat was clearly in the ascendancy over the ball. Even against a very good spinner, patience will see you win out more often than not. Warne never mastered Tendulkar or Lara for example.
Had Bradman played against the outstanding express pacemen of the 80s, he might have still averaged around 70-75. Who Knows? But the point is, he would have been brought back to the field. Of course, Bradman made every post a winner from the era he played in, & you can’t knock that.
Back in 1999, lists were compiled of the greatest athletes of the 20th century in various sports. Women were accommodated in those sports in which women competed. Dawn Fraser, for example, was acknowledged as the greatest female swimmer in history.
I did the list as a trivia question when I was running trivia shows. I’ll see if I can dig out the list & share it with you.
Dean Pantio said | August 22nd 2009 @ 11:51pm | Report comment
I agree with you Sheek. There is no doubt Bradman was prodigiously talented, but he played in an era where it was still a gentlemen’s game and the bowlers had to provide an opportunity for the batsmen to score. During the bodyline series his series average was just 57% of his career mean.
Towser said | June 19th 2008 @ 10:10am | Report comment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l64UYR9rJbY
Sheek
The point you raise about Bradman ie that Bradman would not have been as succesful today is a good one.
As a football fan I’ll do the same comparisons with Pele.
Pele retired in 1977 ,31 years ago.
You can argue that the advances made in sport in this period of time to enhance performance are greater than all previous sporting history.
So to what I know football.
Les Murray waxes lyrical on occassions about the classic Real Madrid v Eintracht 1960 European cup final.
I saw that match live as a teenager in England. I marvelled at the time at the skill on display from Di stefano ,Puskas etc.
Have watched it since many times (the last being the clip above, have a quick look to see what I’m talking about if you like) I still marvel at Di stefano & Puskas’s skills, but theres no way giving the advances by players in tactical awareness, their improved fitness in both speed stamina flexibility etc due to modern sports science that these players would have had the acres of space they had then to execute their skills.
This also applies to Peles era.
Watching Euro 2008 at the moment,well its like I’m fast forwarding on the remote.