Does English rugby have its head in the sand?
Roar Pro
By Homer, 1 Jul 2008 The Crowd is a Roar Pro
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Having just read another article in the English press about the second coming of Martin Johnson and how he will fix all that is wrong in the world, I can’t help but think of the potential fall the great man might be about to take.
Every man and his dog in the UK believes that Johnson is the answer to their prayers and can return the team to its former (boring but undisputed) glory.
How he is supposed to do it is somewhat of a mystery.
He will not coach the team but apparently will dictate their style. How this will sit with the five (yes, that is five) coaches is not apparent either.
What makes it worse is that he has kept the whole coaching team that Ashton had and added another in the form of Brian Smith as attack coach, a role that Ashton used to fill.
This is in addition to Mike Ford (defence), John Wells (forwards), Jon Callard (kicking), and Graham Rowntree (scrummaging).
Apart from that, little has changed in the RFU.
Yes, the new agreement with the clubs will take affect giving the English team greater access to its players. But I don’t see that helping.
The Under 20 team was uninspiring and the senior team lacks any tactical nous, as seen in the recent series against New Zealand.
So when the Wallabies, All Blacks and Springboks all play at Twickenham, the English rugby public still expects Johnson to bring out a miracle and turn the current team of plodders into a formidable outfit.
As Zinzan Brooke says, “you would hate to be him.”
The only real question is how long will it take Stephen Jones to turn against the legend that is Martin Johnson, or will Rob Andrew keep taking the blame?
Oh yeah, I forgot about him. Yet another hurdle for Johnson.
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Benjamin said | July 1st 2008 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Nonsense. Just nonsense.
Firstly, Martin Johnson has openly stated that he will coach the team in certain areas, lineout, restart etc. Much like Clive Woodward openly engaged in the coaching process.
Secondly, how can having more time with players not be helpful? It goes against all logic that England were ever successful due to their domestic season structure. It allows continuity in combinations and will help the players to bond, especially in key areas like the halfback positions and the centres. That the recent debacle against New Zealand was so bad is because England were lacking over five starters and Rob Andrew, a notoriously poor coach, was in charge. During the whole tour Mike Tindall admitted that the backs only practised moves for more than half an hour.
Where England boring when they thumped Australia in Australia? No. How many tries did Australia score in the 2001 World Cup Final? Oh… as many as England. Yes. The u20s may have been uninspired but they disposed of the Australian Super 14 stars much like in the adult World Cup. That illustrates that there are larger problems with Australian rugby actually.
This above article is tripe. I’m not even English but your so ill-informed it’s embarassing. Furthermore who listens to Stephen Jones? Himself and his wife, that’s who, and frankly that is one more person than who listens to Brooke. He’s another man living in the past. How can you quote a man who has made so many offkey recent comments?
Please, let’s just wait and see but given that Australia were put under the cosh by Ireland I fancy England to give Australia a good winter shellacking.
Poor effort Homer.
True Tah said | July 1st 2008 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Homer,
Johnson is probably one of the most respected ex-players running around, and Im sure that when he speaks the England players will listen to him – the bloke is a natual leader – he has what the Maori call mana.
Australian rugby has a lot more issues to contend with than Johnson has.
BTW England rugby during 2001-03 was far from boring – I know Johnson, Wilkinson and their ilk cop of lot of flack on the Roar, but the handed out a few hidings during that time, and I recall a game in Melbourne where England scored 3 tries to 1, with Wendell scoring in the last few minutes to give some respectability to the scoreline.
Peter K said | July 1st 2008 @ 10:12am | Report comment
England were the world’s best team 2001-2003. They beat all comers home and away.
They were not boring, just dominating.
Martin Johnson IMO was the main player behind that, far more than Wilkinson.
He had the aura, he instilled confidence and a hard brutal edge to the team.
England circa 2008 are a boring, weak team. The question is can Johnson as coach have the same ability to lead and inspire that he did as a player.
Also before the boring retort England did beat us in the 2007 QF by a point. Hardly smashed us as people seem to believe. Wallabies have been a pale shadow of the great 1999 team, on a steady decline since then.
Homer said | July 1st 2008 @ 10:33am | Report comment
Well then Benjamin if MJ is going to coach can we look at his coaching pedigree…nil, nada, nothing, zilch. Whether he coaches or not he is part of an overly complicated system where his team has to listen to 6 different mentors and then try and figure out the way forward. Of those six coaches three are now forwards coaches and that is far far to complicated for a player.
The reason more time together will not be helpful is because the basic structure and coaching staff haven’t changed. Brian Ashton’s tenure was extended due to the success of his team, not his coaching (just ask the players) and that same coaching team has been rewarded by keeping their places. If AB or Wallaby teams leaked as many tries as England have there would be at least a change in defense coach. Therefor training to the same structures even longer will not help the side become any better.
This is not an attack on Engluish rugby rather a call for the RFU to support MJ the best they can. He was an immortal player who has been unfairly put on a coaching pedestal without the right resources or background. You have slagged Rob Andrew but why is he still in charge if he is so useless. Please read the article and have an understanding of what is being discussed before flying off the handle.
By the way there was no world cup final in 2001 genius. 1999 or 2003, the wallabies were in both so take your pick and the 2003 went through extra time and was won by 3 points so if that is a thumping in your eyes then well done England.
Your talk of an English team missing so many ‘stars’ ignores the fact that the All Blacks have completely restructured after losing at least five of their first choice forwards and three or more backs but stilled played exciting attacking rugby while being physical at the breakdown.
There are definately problems whitin Australian rugby but that has been the focus of numerous other discussiojns within this website whereas my article is about the probelms facing MJ. The fact that Australia has Four proefssional provinces with half the money of each of the 12 Premiership level English rugby clubs is not the debate. The debate is how can MJ build from a crumbling foundation and if Tindall admitted they didn’t want to train then they should not be wearing the white jersey of England as that is defeatist and a slight to the jersey, game and fans. Therein lies the mountain that MJ must climb.
Art Vandalay said | July 1st 2008 @ 11:58am | Report comment
Stephen Jones the novice who write’s for the Times in London has serious man love issues for Johnson. Things don’t change. The Poms will be formidable in the tight, clueless out wide. Just like they’ve laways been. We’ll be the opposite. Just like we’ve always been. The Kiwis will have all the bases covered but butcher the one that counts. The French will be Jeckyl and Hyde. The Irish, Welsh and Scots, will have some moments of glory up North but will never be serious contenders for the crown. The Saffers will try a bash the hell out of who ever they play but have no creativity. The Argies and Italians will be the ones everyone wants to see do well becasue they never win anything and speak a different language.
Benjamin said | July 1st 2008 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
2001… my mistake, brain error completely.
1. Having more time with the coaches is beneficial because there is more time to spend with the approriate coaches, ie. scrummaging has a set time, restarts etc. The coaches don’t just crowd round a pitch all shouting at the same time. It also allows all of the players to completely buy into the defensive alignment/s. That is not in any way complicated for a player.
2. Mike Tindall did not say that they did not want to practice, he said that Rob Andrew had ignored the backs basically and decided that they did not need to practice moves, unlike New Zealand who practice backs moves religiously. This illustrates the ignorance of Andrew who hasn’t been kept on as a coach but as an administrator. I imagine his large contract has something to do with him being retained. The majority of English fans think Andrew is a complete fool in any case.
3. Basically England did thump Australia in the 2003 final, if the referee had managed the scrummage properly then England would have had a larger lead, also recall when Ben Kay dropped the ball whilst over the try line.
4. The All Blacks are restructuring yes but that ignores the fact that they have talent in depth which differs to England who have depth but not excessive talent. The age group coaching in New Zealand is also far superior to anything in Europe. If you had ever seen Wasps play then you would know what English rugby can produce. I think that any team boosted by Shaw, Easter, Ellis, Cipriani, Sackey and Lewsey would be a different proposition. England have a host of young players who need to be nurtured in the correct environment, within a team containing a core of experience. A lot depends on Johnson’s squad selection today but I think realistically in November this England team will be a good one.
matta said | July 1st 2008 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
some sill points but Ben, is answer to you title/question… YES.. always have and always will.
Ian Noble said | July 1st 2008 @ 10:16pm | Report comment
Martin Johnson can have no illusions about the task facing him, particularly following the tour to NZ. I have just seen the chosen elite squad of 32 and there are no real surprises with 18 retained from the NZ tour. There seems to an emphasis on youth, although both Shaw, Chuter and Lewsey those doughty warriors have been recalled. There is also the selection of the Saxons (England A) squad of 32 which has a greater emphasis on youth, although they have been joined by the likes of Tindall, Easter and Worsley who did not make the elite squad. Cipriani has been named in the Saxons squad but following his nasty injury he will probably not play until the turn of the year and there is an outside chance he might be available for the 6N’s.
Rob Andrew who negotiated the club/country agreement can now step away from the England team. He can concentrate on the overall elite programme which includes the academy system which is beginning to bear fruit with a number of the younger players in both the Elite and Saxons squads products of the academy set up.
The new agreement will release players for the elite squad in two blocks, totalling 14 weeks for the autumn internationals and the 6Ns. It will be the first time that England players have had time together for such a long period during a regular season; no excuses about lack of preparation time .I hope Martin Johnson also reviews the coaching staff as some players have indicated that the quality of coaching was poorer than the coaching they receive at club level. In addition, the dispute over player payment has been resolved with players receiving a slightly lower basic of £8000 per international with a win bonus of £3000.
So a new beginning, but will it work? To be frank nobody knows but all the ingredients are there and as long as the clubs are happy about the new arrangement and the Professional Working Party is really a forum for monitoring the professional game and the workings of the club/country agreement it might stand a chance of success. By the way the PWP includes representatives of the RFU, the Premier clubs, the professional players association and other nominees; interestingly, Martin Johnson was chosen by the premier clubs to be one of their representatives. One further point about the club/country agreement is that clubs could be fined if they ignore the claims of academy players and English qualified players doing the absence of England players on squad duty. The intention is that it will not become an excuse to employ more non English qualified players as cover.
Benjamin Saunders said | July 2nd 2008 @ 12:23am | Report comment
Incidentally Shaw and Lewsey were injured or re-habing during the tour to NZ. Also Johnson has stated that there will be considerable movement between the squads, thus Easter’s demotion is based on a lack of playing time.
Ian Noble said | July 2nd 2008 @ 1:39am | Report comment
Benjamin
I think only players who are injured can be replaced in the elite squad, loss of form is not an excuse for changing a squad member. therefore opportunities may be limited. I am a Quins fan and was disappointed to see Easter demoted, although I think Tom Guest, also chosen for the Saxons, given more game time at Quins would come on leaps and bounds. However the inclusion of another young No 8 in Jordan Crane in the elite squad is indicative of the way Johnson is thinking.