By Spiro Zavos
July 7th 2008 @ 6:35am
Related coverage
Wallabies good but the real test starts at Perth
The headline in The Sunday Telegraph celebrating the Wallabies 40 – 10 thrashing of an inept French side summed up the Brisbane Test well: Brawls, mayhem and Giteau magic.
For a so-called ‘Friendly Test, this was a match with a lot of spite and fist fights. Judging by James Horwill’s closed eye, France won the fight but lost the Test.
The brilliance of Giteau was a plus for the Wallabies. He seems to be learning the Deans system for five-eights which is to underplay your hand from first phase play and create play for yourself and your support runners when play becomes fractured. Giteau’s pass/kick to Peter Hynes to set up the first Wallaby try was straight from the Daniel Carter/Robbie Deans playbook.
Rod Kafer dissected the play in an interesting session on Fox Sports after the Test. He showed how Stirling Mortlock came in towards the middle of the field with an off-the-ball run while Hynes drifted further out towards the sideline. The French winger was sucked infield. And a perfect kick found Hynes by himself for the catch and the plant for a try.
The scrum was a curate’s egg. The Wallabies won two tight heads, one of them with a great shove that was reminiscent of the famous push-over try at Cardiff against Wales in the 1984 Grand Slam tour. This scrum emphatically announced the Alan Jones-coached Wallabies as a new and potent force in world rugby. It’s doubtful if these two great scrums should be seen in this light, just yet. For France retaliated and monstered the Wallaby scrum several times.
The fact is despite all the blatherings from the Channel Seven commentators about the power of the French scrum, it isn’t a great French scrum. Wales out-scrummed France in this year’s Six Nations tournament. NZ has regularly monstered the French scrum in the last few years.
And on the evidence of the titanic NZ-South Africa Test played just hours before, both these scrums would destroy a French scrum, and they will give the Wallaby scrum, improved though it may be, a torrid time, especially the All Black scrum.
Was it accidental that the improved Wallaby scrum came about with the absence of Nathan Sharpe? I leave the question hanging in the air for readers of The Roar to give their views on.
The Wallabies put on a record score against France. And this represents a good result. But … France, with a bits-and-pieces pack and tired legs (most of the side has played 40 or so matches in the last 12 months) won the battle for possession. The Wallabies scored only four tries. There should have been more, especially as France played from the 64th to the 74th minutes with a player in the sin-bin.
My cousin who has seen many decades of rugby said to me as we watched the match: “This is the worst French side I’ve seen. Where is the pace and flair in the backs?”
Admittedly, players from the top four club sides were still at home. However, the best players in those sides are outsiders like Byron Kelleher.
Professional rugby, especially in France with its savage relegation system for the top club premiership, seems to have produced a type of player who is niggly rather than creative, brutal rather than skilful and safety-first rather than adventurous in his approach to playing rugby. Thugby players (and hence the Brisbane brawls) rather than real rugby players.
Oh my Bonifaces, Maso, Sella and Blanco of so long ago …
For the Wallabies, you can only beat the teams put in front of you, and this is what they have done with Ireland and France, with the victories in the three Tests becoming increasingly comprehensive.
The Deans era in summary then: Three Tests played and won. The halves, Luke Burgess (another brilliant run to his credit) and Matt Giteau beginning to provide the energy, flair, control and running abrasiveness you want from your halves.
Stirling Mortlock becoming dominant in his zones. The lineout working well. The scrum improving. The defence resilient and unyielding. The team playing as a team with an eye to creating tries. Execution, though, still leaving a lot to be desired.
As the old saying goes: Things still to be improved.
Whether all this improvement, and the improvement to come, will be enough to make the Wallabies contenders in the Tri-Nations remains to be seen.
The team is a better side that last year’s team. But its best years, one suspects, are still to come.
Read Spiro Zavos’s take on the All Blacks v Springboks match; and Inky’s analysis.
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Benjamin Saunders said | July 7th 2008 @ 7:06am | Report comment
Spiro, the French props involved in the test series did not start in the recent Six Nations (Faure did – but only 3 games). The scrum that was underpowered then was even more underpowered against Australia, and although you recall the French scrum being weak in recent years I distinctly remember Les Bleus pushing the Boks around at will in Cape Town during their 26-36 win in 2006. In their day Marconnet, Milloud and De Villiers were very good scrummagers. It is unfortunate that the influx of Georgian, Italian and South African props into the Top 14 has made redudnant a classic French feature. Realistically the Bok scrum has been vastly overrated in recent years and has been dominated by the All Blacks, the English, the French, the Italians and was even held firm by Wales. I would imagine that Australia should at the least be hoping for parity with the South Africans.
LL said | July 7th 2008 @ 7:41am | Report comment
There is hope for the Wallabies if Deans can continue to mould a fit, fast mobile game more suited to the ELVs and one that the, as seen on Saturday, the Boks seem to struggle with. But as the first half of the first French game showed, (as have previous encounters with the Boks) the Wallabies have a dangerous habit of not just “playing what’s in front of them” but playing to their oppositions level. An inform Giteau against an idiotic James offers more than a chance, I hope the rest of the Wallabies have done the right kind of fitness work to cover all of the field for all of the 80 minutes and that might just get them there…
Vincent said | July 7th 2008 @ 9:08am | Report comment
As Robbie Deans put it without getting carried away, ‘there is progress’ and ‘we keep chipping away’, for maybe the first time in a while I’m finding the Wallabies unpredictable and indeed improving in important areas. I agree with Spiro that the execution isn’t quite where it should be, but these are professionals and I’m sure they’ll get it right. On to the first tri nations game and what a game it was, this was rugby at great pace and with collisions at the contact area that defeaned. I agree with LL, the ELV’x at tri nations team will really test the conditioning of the players.
The Riddler said | July 7th 2008 @ 9:21am | Report comment
I am still perplexed by the scrum issue. The Waratahs pack more than holds its own in the Super 14 against some fairly good opposition packs. Yet a Wallaby pack featuring 5 of these Waratahs continues to struggle.
I also find it interesting and intriguing that the scrum has struggled for the past couple of years under the tutelage of Michael Foley yet he is the only coach of the old guard to keep his position in the Deans team.
Andy said | July 7th 2008 @ 9:25am | Report comment
Good call on Butch James LL. He is ordinairy. No scrap that he is woeful. Imagine if the Boks had a Giteau or Carter to marry their force and directness up front with there speed out wide. I think the Aussies have a long way to go but they’ll be a world force again in a couple of years. I think they’ll beat the Boks in Perth and NZ in Brisbane but lose the rest to finish 3rd in the Tri-Nations. Would like to see Tahu given a chance. He raised his game against the Maori’s indicating he lifts his game to the level required. Deans obviously likes haveing two playmakers/controllers so this will work against Tahu but he may be a long term replacement to the excellant but agening Mortlock. When Vickerman comes back, Sharpe should go and not Horwill. The scrum will hold up well against the Boks but struggle against NZ. We shoudl be able to pressure the NZ lineout though.
Benjamin said | July 7th 2008 @ 9:31am | Report comment
The Riddler is spot on there. How do the Waratahs players not translate that form? Perhaps McKenzie is vastly underrated. I also agree about Foley, every other game you get the shoulder shrug and a “Gee, we’re getting better, pass marks tonight but something to work on at the training paddock”. That only holds true for a certain period.
JONO said | July 7th 2008 @ 9:33am | Report comment
WE NEED TO GET OUR AUSTRALIA ‘A’ PROPS ONTO THE WALLABIES BENCH AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, GIVE THEM SOME EXPERIENCE AGAINST SOUTH AFRICA IN PERTH. OUR SCRUM AGAINST THE FRENCH WAS 38KGS HEAVIER [ACCORDING TO THE TV STATS]WHICH IS A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE ….. OK WE TOOK A COUPLE AGAINST THE HEAD BUT WE WERE NOT IN CONTROL, WE HAD AN IDEAL OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY POWER FORWARD BUT THE ADVANTAGE WAS LOST THROUGH THE LACK OF FRONT ROW DOMINANCE. WE WILL BE MONSTERED IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE AGAIN UNLESS WE GIVE OUR YOUNG PROPS SOME REAL EXPERIENCE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
Benjamin said | July 7th 2008 @ 9:41am | Report comment
Holmes is obviously a loss. Sheperdson was given a chance but just couldn’t hack it. Who else is there? Rodzilla was a joke, Henderson is too small, Robinson lacks that killer aggression and Baxter is just… well, Baxter. I say bring back Richard Harry.
matta said | July 7th 2008 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Jono, yep we were a fair bit bigger. But there was some great vision in the 2nd half when a scrum was packed about 10 out from our line and 5 in from touch – the camera man was right next to the two packs. Baxters back arched after the hit….
it doesnt matter how big you engine is if your Chassis is split and your trans is sloppy……
joeb said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:01am | Report comment
“Was it accidental that the improved Wallaby scrum came about with the absence of Nathan Sharpe?”
Spiro, I seem to recall a couple of years ago you asked the question (smh) as to what was going on in our second row? Back then Vickerman was Sharpie’s partner in crime, and it did seem they both took breathers right when they were required to perform (basically to push — hard — and reinforce/bolster our front row), yet since then the Western Force captain has become a better player imho (seems to step up to the plate more consistently these days, and including in last year’s RWC; maybe the guy has matured; certainly his attitude has), though we still have to keep in mind this certainly was a second string French outfit, and still their scrum got the better of ours particularly in the second 40 mins.
Mumm was interesting in this 2nd Test; hardly sighted him all game yet every now and then up would pop his head and he was certainly in the trenches doing what needed to be done. Like the guy though he’s still a very young fellow. And let’s not forget Chisholm, a favourite of mine now that Kanaar is no more. Pity also that Rudi what’s-his-name who left the Force due to family commitments last year isn’t to date talking of returning — even for QLD, his home state.
“The team is a better side than last year’s team.”
We were very unfortunate in that RWC QF last year; Morty’s kick a mere metre or two to the left of the post. Who knows how far we could’ve gone if we’d made the semis? For mine Knuckles and his assistants did a pretty good job all considered.
“But its best years, one suspects, are still to come.”
Hopefully, but let’s not peak too early, and go the way of the ABs come RWC time. As Fitzpatrick said not so long ago, something to the tune “the game now revolves around RWC”, and he bitched and moaned. But it’s what nations are now remembered for first and foremost.
Dexter William said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:02am | Report comment
The Riddler is right: Why is Foley still in the coaching team? He was at best an average hooker himself (throwing got him the job) and had a poor showing so far.
The Waratah pack plus Sharpe when Vickerman was playing also had problems. Why is it so hard for Foley to ask Sharp to push harder in the scrum?
The other thing I noticed very often is that the Wallabies back rowers tend to lift their heads up during scrum time which suggest that they are not contributing to the push. The flankers need to win the scrum before thinking of scavenging. MaCaw can afford to do that because their scrum is so much better than the rest.
Funny that Sharpe’s Western Force team has the weakest scrum in the S14..
Sam Taulelei said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:04am | Report comment
My thought on the difference in performance by the Waratahs forwards in the Super 14 at scrumtime and at test level is that at international level you’re playing the best players available and coached by the same person as opposed to the Super 14 when players are scattered throughout teams and playing under different coaches and systems.
It’s the difference in the powerbase of Australian rugby which is more densely concentrated in a single team unlike SA and NZ who have more teams therefore a wider distribution of players.
It also represents the difference in playing standards and some players who shine at Super 14 can’t sustain or make the step up at test level. Without any strong competition for their spots they’re almost selected by default and keep amassing caps until the landscape changes.
joeb said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:09am | Report comment
“Funny that Sharpe’s Western Force team has the weakest scrum in the S14..”
And yet at the start of the year the pundits were all saying the Force scrum was our best… one Link had something to say about that.
Benjamin said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:11am | Report comment
If the Munster/Ireland pack can translate that form why can’t the Waratahs? Having a small playing base is good if the players are but conversely bad if they are not. Continuity is a bonus but it doesn’t make a difference if you have a one-gear tight head.
Sam Taulelei said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Benjamin
You answered your own question – if the players are good then the small playing base doesn’t matter so much. It’s not as if this is a new phenomenon, for the past four years the Waratahs have scrummed well at Super 14 and then those same players go missing at test level.
Benjamin said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:23am | Report comment
Sam, I agree to a point but in Super 14 level the talent isn’t spread around that much, especially in New Zealand. Thus if they can stand up to the Blues and the Crusaders then why not New Zealand? Perhaps it is the coaching? The majority of English players receive better coaching at club level than they do international level and from what I recall, Foley was no great shakes at Bath.
Roger said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:31am | Report comment
One big positive about not having Sharpe playing was that the ball got to the outside centre and beyond without Sharp getting in the way.
Harry said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:37am | Report comment
I too am bemused by Foley – he is highly rated by all the experts obviously yet after two years there really is no discernable improvement in our tight game – not just scrums, but also restarts and rucks and mauls. The scrum still looks too loose and no coordinated 8 man shove. Australian rugby has become conditioned to thinking its satisfactory if the half gets his pass away under pressure, scrum heading backwards and being wheeled the wrong side.
That said, credit where it is due – Baxter had a decent game on Saturday. To the chap above who wonders why the Tahs can’t produce their S14 forward form at test level – I would say look at the S14 final, where they were well beaten up front by the Saders. Yes the Tahs can roll over 2nd rate S14 teams lwith weak packs eg Qld, ACT, Force, Cheetahs etc, but they didn’t really dominate or win against the Saders or Bulls eh.
LL has it right in showing faith in Deans who seems to know what needs to be done under the ELVs. This is where his Crusaders experience will be invaluable. Its fairly obvious what the Jappies approach to us in Perth will be – bash us off the ball and dominate up front, look for turnover balls/intercepts to free up Habanna, kick penalties and feild goals – err thats it.
Peter K said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:51am | Report comment
A good scrum is an eight man scrum.
The Waratahs are tighter and scrum as an 8 man unit.
Lets look at the non Waratah Wallaby forwards.
Moore – Not as good a scrumager as Polotua-Nau.
Sharpe – Far worse scrumager than Vickerman
Hoiles – Not as good a scrumager as Palu. The 8 man makes a big difference when they shift from between the locks to pushing between the flanker and lock via the tight head.
I would expect the Wallaby pack to be worse than the Waratahs at scrumaging.
Roger well noted.
The backline was far far more fluent because there were less forwards slowing it down. In particular Sharpe.
Mind you once Barnes, who adds little to the attack outside kicking, was off it improved with Mortlock / Cross combo.
From the changes in personnel for this test.
Mumm starting was an improvement with Sharpe off. McMeniman went better though, I would start Horwill and McMeniman until Vickerman is back. Mind you that is if Horwill or McMeniman can call the lineouts.
Waugh had more impact than Smith did when he started. Smith was unseen even coming in fresh as opposed to Waugh in his cameos.
Hoiles did not impress or make much impact. Palu to get his spot back.
Turner did not do much, Tuqiri to get his spot back, since Mitchell did little for Aust ‘A’.
AC was better than Shepherd at F/B so should of kept the spot, moot point now anyway.
From Aust ‘A’ I thought Kepu,Kimlin, McMeniman, Lucas, Tahu, and Norton-Knight stood out.
Assuming Holmes , PN, Vickerman are still out my TN test team would be
01 Robinson (can’t wait till Holmes gets back) or maybe Kepu
02 Moore
03 Dunning
04 McMeniman
05 Horwill
06 Elsom
07 Waugh
08 Palu
09 Burgess
10 Giteau
11 Tuqiri
12 Barnes (last chance, otherwise Tahu)
13 Mortlock
14 Hynes
15 AC
16 Freier (cant wait until PN is back)
17 Baxter
18 Kimlin
19 Smith
20 Lucas (if we need a scrumhalf), if not then SNK who covers 10,12,15
21 Tahu
22 Mitchell / Cross / Turner / SNK
Roger said | July 7th 2008 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Wallabies team just got announced. No big news. Tahu and McMeniman in, Hoiles out of squad and Ione and Chisolm miss out.
http://www.rugby.com.au/news/wallabies_2008/tri-nations_squad_announced,95528.html/section/21893
I would have liked to see Lucas in squad as cover for 9 and 10 if desperate. Sheehan is the best rugby league hooker to play union, but he isnt a wallabies halfback…plays like a SA or ENG 9 maybe. Aus A looked better without him yesterday.
Kimlin has to be close, as are SNK and Kepu, who is improving from his loose No 8 ways dramatically!
Terry Kidd said | July 7th 2008 @ 11:18am | Report comment
Hey Toeb you must have watched a different Notso Sharpe than me over the last couple of years. No pack that Sharpe has been a member of has struck even at scrum time, not Reds, not Force and definitely not Wallabies. We definitely did not miss Notso in any facet of Saturday’s game.
Justin said | July 7th 2008 @ 11:23am | Report comment
We rarely see it but when there is shot of the scrum from above it tells much of the story IMO. Our pack is not tight (and that is all of them). There are large gaps between players from front to back and it splinters our scrum when the opposition decide to have a go. I noticed on Saturday night too that the second rower on the left hand side (not sure who it was) had his a$$ that much higher than his hips it was not funny. No wonder they got smashed a couple of times, very poor technique. Power body position must have your main levers (your legs) below shoulders and driving slightly up just like a strong tackle position. Once the back is in a convex position its all over.
Gits improved his running lines also which helped and it made it easier for Burgess to find the target more consistently although it will improve more. Great to see Tahu in the 3N squad, he has the talent to become an excellent choice for AUS. Power, speed, feet and improved distribution could see him starting shortly. I love Barnes for his defence but we rely so heavily on Gits to create something most times. Tahu will keep defence guessing and threaten the line more than Barnes. Not sure of Tahu’s kicking capability though, anyone know?
Andy said | July 7th 2008 @ 11:33am | Report comment
1. Robinson – Ithinks he’s done quite well
2. Moore/PN – Can’t split them, both good at different things
3. Dunning – Who else is there? Someone go to Argentina with a cheque book and find a new Topo
4. Horwill
5. Vickerman
6. Elsom
7. Waugh – brings intensity and mongrel
8. Palu – time to translate Super 14 form, replace with Smith ar 50-60minute mark
9. Burgess
10. Giteau
11. Tuquir – despite the knockers I rate Lote, breaks tackles gets ad line
12. Barnes – Tahu’s breathing down your neck buddy
13. Mortlock
14. Hynes – lets see how good he really is
15. AAC – can break a tackle needs to work on the basics/consistency
16 Alexander
17. Moore/PN
18. McMeniman – Mumms done well but this guys class
19. Smith
20. Cordingley – Lucas next year
21. Tahu – offers more X Factor then Cross
22. Mitchell – Genuine Try scorer
Art Vandalay said | July 7th 2008 @ 11:39am | Report comment
Justin to answer your question Tahu couldn’t kick a habit. If Deans wants a second tactical kicker he won’t make the team. Timmy Horan was an average to poor kicker and he was, in my option, the greatest 12 in rugby history. Tahu offers a genuine line breaking threat, great feet, strength and freakish offloading ability. I’d love to see him get a go but the History of Robbie Deans coached teams suggest he likes two play makers/tacticians which means Barnes will get the job. You can’t really argue against Robbie given his record. People keep praising Berrick’s defence. Is any one else anxious about a mismatch for power in Barnes V Nonu? In Rob I trust
Justin said | July 7th 2008 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Cheers Art, that doesnt sound great. I guess the difference was that Mauger guided Carter about the park in his early days and had more in his attack than Berrick does at present. Berrick is a leg tackler so to agree this negates some of the power of Nonu as if you go high its bye-bye. He wont he is a copybook tackler in the mould of the former league player Jason? Heatherington from QLD.
Dont forget the Gits will be taking Nonu much of the time as we wont be playing man on man defence unless inside the 22. Will certainly require the defence to move up quickly and take the space, with backrow support being crucial also. Nonu will make a break at some stage you would think so it is how we clean it up that may be more important, he is just so powerful.
joeb said | July 7th 2008 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Lidd, “Hey Toeb you must have watched a different Notso Sharpe than me over the last couple of years. No pack that Sharpe has been a member of has struck even at scrum time, not Reds, not Force and definitely not Wallabies. We definitely did not miss Notso in any facet of Saturday’s game.”
Come Boks and ABs time yuo’ll be needing Notso ’cause I’m here to tell you Mumm isn’t up to it; not in the TN league. Maybe some us don’t know what we’re seein’, eh?
Gimme a break — Mumm and Horwill versus Thorn and Ali, and whoever the Boks install in their second row. What we need is good depth so the players can be rotated and the side remain competitive throughtout the test season.
LL said | July 7th 2008 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
Tahu offers power at inside centre, a key weapon that Henry jumped on early with Nonu’s selection, especially with defences having to go back five meters from the scrum. Barnes making play outside Giteau is abviously still an Aaron Mauger-like selection from Dean’s Sader past. Depending on how the play is going though both options allow for clever use of the subsitutions which today’s tests really demand. Would have like to have seen selectors take bet on Digby just like the ABs selectors chose Wulf but ah well, there at least is genuine pace with Hynes. This comp suddenly doesnt seem as clearcut as anyone thought it might be….
Sluggy said | July 7th 2008 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
“Maybe some us don’t know what we’re seein’, eh? ”
Depends if we’re watching the world’s slowest inside centre take the ball up, or a lock who doesn’t push in the scrums.
Mark H said | July 7th 2008 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
Some good comments Ive just read. I guess for my 20c, the tight 5 need to become a tight 8. All they have to do in attack is follow the ball carrier and give options inside and out. Pop passing, driving on a tackled player will give momentum. Im pretty happy with the progress. I feel a bit sorry for Sharpy, hes done. These young fellas need a crack. Deans is right, its a work in progress.
Homer said | July 7th 2008 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
As good as Mumm has been McMeniman is a class act. he played very well for the Wallabies and then for the A side. As well he has the agression needed to combat the SA and AB teams. He is also a great number 6. Vickerman and McMeniman in the second row for me although Horwill has done nothing wrong, in fact by scoring two tries off Giteau’s shoulder he has shown he has learned how to p[lay with his teammates and where the ball should be.
When Alexander comes on his side of the scrum invariably seems to be more stable, I also liked his comments about not wanting the scrum to be on par with other teams but to tsart dominating, about bloody time someone took that attitude. Throw in Kepu as well with Polata-Nau and we will have a big strong front row that is mobile as well. It is a shame that Polata-Nau broke his hand as it means he probably won’t get a test until November now.
I can’t see Baxter, Robinson and Moore holding up under the cbashing they Boks will give them around the rucks either. I reckon De Villiers will target them inattack for a whiel and drain the energy of the pack early, he has more than enough runners to do the job.
Bill said | July 7th 2008 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
Does anyone else not buy the ‘work in progress” tag? John Connolly was saying the same things in 2006 when he took over. So what progress have we made over the past 2 years? And what team in any sport isn’t a “work in progress”. If you consider perfection is impossible but that every team strives to progress towards perfection then every team is a”work in progress”. Homer mentioned Alexander, Kepu as being in the same front row. Unfortunately I think there both looseheads and Kepu couldn’t make the NSW team so how good can he be. I think all Wallaby supporters are just Baxtered and Dunninged out as they’ve humiliated themselves and there country to many times, that we rate the alternatives to highly because we wish them to be better then Baxter and Dunning. Foley, Deans, Williams et al are not stupid. The reason that Baxter and Dunning get picked is that as sad as it is they’re the best we’ve got. Just as England struggle to produce creative inside backs, we struggle to produce powerful, driving tight forwards. Sad but true
Midfielder said | July 7th 2008 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
Spiro …….what the hell goes on in the world of professional rugby……grateful to be watching free to air rugby…..on seven in Sydney ……but before and during entire game get regular AFL ads promoting AFL and the Sydney v Collingwood game in Sydney that everyone in Sydney knows is being broadcast on Ten at the same time. Does the AFL sponsor the rugby or as is more likely they were free promos run by seven for the sport they really care about even at the cost of a few viewers and rugby sponsors. Let you know a little secret the sponsors were unimpressed not only with seven but the quality of its coverage. No agenda here just accurate observation…..why bother with a broadcaster who does not care about the sport it is covering?……Remember what 7 did with football…..Its coverage of the rugby is apalling.
jimbo said | July 7th 2008 @ 3:37pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
the AFL people were complaining about the coverage they get from 7 in another Roar article. They wouldn’t have been too happy about the state of ANZ stadium for the Swans game either.
I think the best sports people at 7 have jumped ship or are on overseas junkets in preparation for the Olympics.
Homer said | July 7th 2008 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
Bill, Alexander and Kepu packed in together for Australia A against Tonga and smashed them. Kepu on the loose side I think. I agree that we are always looking for a better alternative but I also think that it is born out of frustration with the current crop. Baxter and Dunnning just don’t seem to learn from their mistakes. Baxter still drops his shoulder and folds while Dunning is constantly outsmarted into prematurely engaging or holding back, thereby giving the advantage to the opposition. The problem is that Robinson etc are still very young and missed out on the chance to learn more of the dark art through club rugby. English props are bred through very, very tough examinations week after week in a solid professional environment. Unfortunately for us the drive towards running rugby left us looking more for fleet footed athletes than hard nosed moles used to doing the hard work week in and week out.
Everytime I look at the aussie front row I am embaressed, not one cauliflower ear and barely a lump, scar or square jaw to be seen. In opposition the english front row are really, really, ugly gnarled headed dudes with ears that scare kids on the street. That comes fromhard work at the coal face, not against a scrum machine.
Alexander did 1 or two years in the UK with Bristol or Richmond I think and benefitted from it, now he is already one fo our best prospects.
Michael C said | July 7th 2008 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Midfielder -
on channel 7 in Melbourne, I think on Thursday night, we had a couple of shows that were ‘brought to you by Channel 7s Rugby Union coveage’, or something to that end,
….only thing being that we’re not getting a Rugby Union coverage in Melb, thus far, …., or, if we are, it’s after midnight, any way, I’m not in the business of sitting up to watch it at that sort of hour. Hardly the sort of thing that warrants big promotion into the Melbourne market, I think it was for My Name is Earl and the Amazing Race or something like that – - all this great network cross promotion……except that they were buring what they were cross promoting….talk about mixed messages.
it all seems just a bit all over the place really. Perhaps a bit of contractual obligation – - perhaps a bit of broadcaster disappointment with ROI. Perhaps the brand of the ARU has suffered so much via the ARC collapse, and much of the unsavoury home truths about finances made public by John O’Neil since his return – - that the RU has lost a bit of broadcaster ‘gloss’???
Andy said | July 7th 2008 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
My frustration with our front row is we’ve seem to be back where we started in 2006. Then we had Holmes and Blake who every one said where young and needed to be given time and after 2 years of test match rugby they’d be world class. Now they’re no where to be seen and where hanging our hopes on Alexander and Robinson who are again very young for props. Are we going to be having this conversation again in two years. I bloody hope not. I can just see the ARU repeating mistakes and chasing league stars like Inglis and Foloau and ingore the opportunity to develop young props. Instead of spending cash on League stars we should spend cash on poaching Mick Cron or some Pommy scrumming guru and set up a Scrumming school that all promising Schoolboy, promising club players, Underage Rep players and state players have to attend in the off season.
Central North said | July 7th 2008 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
Andy – are the ARU “chasing” Inglis and Folau now? I remember some Bret Harris style speculation in the Aus maybe 18 months back – but certainly nothing since and absolutely nothing that is taking the attention away from developing young props.
At the moment I see no silver bullet in the front row – but claiming it’s due to the ARU chasing Leaguies is pretty silly.
Harry said | July 7th 2008 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
What Andy says. Although hopefully Holmes can return from his latest injury. And maybe Blake will improve after 2 years in France.
I am a fan of McMenimem but the guy has proven himself too injury prone over the last 3 years, I also thnik he is a natural 6, not a second row. Stick him on the bench for the time being, Mumm went OK
David said | July 7th 2008 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
I know what Michael C means about free to air broadcast times. Here in Perth we’re only getting one game live on Channel 7 for the whole Tri-Nations (the afternoon Bledisloe from NZ).
All other tests are 11.45pm or later. It’s a disgrace.
Last Saturday (for the 2nd French test), the movie finished at 10.45…and was followed by an hour of Celebrity Cosmetic Surgery. Rugby at 11.45.
The only response I ever get when I call/email Channel 7 is that it’s all about ratings. I’d be surprised if rugby doesn’t rate better among the thousands of diehard Wallabies supporters in Perth than Celebrity Cosmetic Surgery at that time of night.
The ARU/Bundaberg etc are getting seriously bad value for money in their deal with Ch 7, particularly in markets like Perth where they really should be promoting the game.
There’s a strong rugby culture in Perth, as seen by the good crowds at Force home games, but you’d wonder if the ARU knows we’re here at all.
Justin said | July 7th 2008 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
I think if they are both fit McMenimem is the man, he seems are bit tougher and more aggressive than Mumm who thrived no question in S14, but defence is tighter in Test footy and real impact is necessary. Mc has the makings of a superb 6 for years to come IMO.
Scrum Importance said | July 7th 2008 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
Its hard to please the Rugby Public. You beat the French by 40 odd, you win a couple of tight heads, play reasonably well in tight, don’t lose any of your own line outs and still its not good enough. Dunning hasn’t even played the last two games and hes getting critisised.
Baxter, Alexander and Robinson all played well on Sat, yeah not every scrum was technically the best, nor was the French scrum and amazingly nor was the South African or the NZ scrum, in the same way that not every pass, kick and decision from the fleet footed back 7 was perfect.
They are the best of the bunch at the moment and deserve to be recognised as such. I’d prefer the odd scrum penalty than the frquent try being scored because the props are the best in the world at scrumagging and miss every other tackle – Baxter and Dunning regulalry make 15-20 tackles a game in tight.
spiro zavos said | July 7th 2008 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
All the comments about the woeful promotion of rugby on Channel 7 are correct. This business of promoting AFL during the rugby Tests seems to suggest where the channel’s priorities lie. The same applies on Fox Sport which often promotes RL during the big rugby matches.
In the past I’ve had run-ins with Channel 7, resulting in threats of defamation writs in one case by them, for trying to expose their contempt for the rugby product they have bought. They put very little – apparent – effort in promoting the highest viewing numbers for the Wallaby Tests. They have had their commentators, for instance, sitting in Australia and making their commentary on a Test played overseas. The build-up to the Tests compare very poorly with the excellent promotion of, say, the State of Origin matches by Channel 9.
ohtani's jacket said | July 7th 2008 @ 6:56pm | Report comment
If you’re talking scrums, then Mike Cron deserves all the credit in the world. Instead of pinching a Carl Hayman, someone ought to be pinching Cron.
Robert S said | July 7th 2008 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
The free to air coverage has been disappointing for some time now. Compared to State of Origin, or for that matter Channel 9s coverage of the NRL Friday night Footy, Test match coverage is lacking energy and anything resembling a spectacle. I was disappointed with the match day entertainment/ presentation for the 2nd Aus v France test. Suncorp stadium is a great venue but the choice of music played during the many stoppages seemed designed to relax rather than deliver energy to the crowd. The result being an attempt to get he mexican wave started which is a sure sign that the crowd was restless. There was also no pyrotechnics at the start of the match and the post match presentation was a complete shambles. I wonder who from the ARU is responsible for match day programming, unfortunately it looked like they had the day off on Saturday. I just hope the Bledisloe at Suncorp on the 13 Sept is an improvement.
spiro zavos said | July 7th 2008 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
Australian rugby has had the chance with two scrum experts who were treated as propphets without honour in their own country: Topo Rodiquez who years ago wrote a treatise on scrumming that I described in the SMH as a document Aristotle might have written if he’d been a rugby man, and Andrew Blades who, in my opinion, is a PH.D is scrum techniques. For one reason or another Topo was never considered at the top levels as a scrumming guru, and Eddie Jones forced out Blades from the Wallaby organisation (probably as a scapegoat) when his Wallabies were under pressure.
Benjamin Saunders said | July 8th 2008 @ 4:23am | Report comment
Australia face the same problem as Ireland. Beyond Cian Healy Ireland are lacking any young props of quality. In both countries the aim must be to immediately increase propping numbers and then to allow professional props to start up their own coaching clinics and visit schools and local clubs. Obviously that is a long term development tool but it is necessary. I imagine that the most popular sport in both countries is their indigenous footballs and this does not inspire many young men to want to be props. I am not sure of specific Australian efforts but in England the Harelquinbs Rugby League club have, over the past few years, held a ‘Prop Idol’ day where anybody of any age group could turn up to learn about propping. The most promising young players were then either kept on in a specific training group or integrated into the academy.
ChrisInParis said | July 9th 2008 @ 10:54pm | Report comment
I’ve read Spiro’s articles for many years and always appreciate his clear analysis and insight. However I must disagree with the observations he makes about French rugby. I’ve lived here for 15 years and follow the French game closely. Running genius is not going out of French rugby and the bulk of the French championship games have shown the usual flair and talent, with the Toulouse – Clermont final a great game featuring many of the top players that unfortunately weren’t in Australia.
In my opinion, the reason France performed poorly in Australia can be explained more simply:
– they have a young, new coach in only his eighth game at the top, who has changed the team massively for every single game since starting, causing massive disruption. France underperformed in the Six Nations due to all these changes and it appears Lievremont is in no rush to settle his team. I think he wants to try as many players as possible with an eye to 2011, and will eventually settle for the younger players with whom he is more familiar. In the meantime, its frustrating. No combinations have been allowed to develop. The French halves we saw in Brisbane had never played together.
– France was missing its top players from the top four championship teams: Clerc, Heymans, Skrela, Fritz, Elissalde, Jauzion, Vermeulen, Dusautoir, Rougerie, Nyanga, Mas, Poux, Thion, Servat, Szarzewski, Pelous, Poitrenaud, amongst others (and the injured Michalak will be back too). There were only five players in Australia from the 22 France put out against Wales in the final match of the Six Nations.
- The players have been playing non-stop since september and as Byron Kelleher discovered, their Top 14 is a marathon with many many more matches than the super 14. There are also the Europe Cup matches.
As Deans admitted, they were looking forward to the summer holidays.
He mentions thuggery. Thuggery used to be an aspect of the French game especially at lower levels, but has mostly disappeared in the last ten years. As replays showed, Horwill got involved stupidly in what was only a scuffle at that point, escalating it to a brawl. While the two French forwards should not have used him as a vent for their frustration over the match, the incident does not make the French players thugs. It does show they box better.
Finally, with regard to foreign players in French clubs, Toulon is not at all a typical French club. Most clubs only have two or three foreigners playing for them. Toulon has gone all out to buy top foreign players to attract spectators, more sponsors, and get back into the Top 14. Mission accomplished. It will be interesting to see how they go next year. I don’t believe the use of foreign players has affected French rugby. Not yet at any rate.
About the Wallabies, they’ll have to step up to beat SA or NZ but they beat them both last year and I expect them to win at least a game against them both again this year. Go Wallabies!
Benjamin said | July 10th 2008 @ 4:40am | Report comment
ChrisinParis… I agree with the majority of your argument. However Toulon is not an isolated example of foreing players far outweighing local players. You mention the final of Toulouse v Clermont as an exciting game, indeed Toulouse and Clermont supplied some excellent rugby over the past season, however if you analyse the teams/squads they were knee deep in imported players. Human, Basualdo, Perugini, Hasan, Albacete, Sowerby, Maka, Kelleher, Kunavore, Du Toit, Zirakashvili, Ledesma, Smit, Cudmore, Broomhall, Senio, James, Bai, Canale, Joubert, Nalaga. Perpignan and Stade Francaise follow a similar example. This has hindered French development massively, especially in the front and 2nd rows to the extent that the French scrum is a shadow of its former self. Paparemborde must literally be turning in his grave.
Chris, you also list the unavailable players. True also, but these players were available throughout the previous 8 years (by in large) and Laporte managed to do nothing of note with them. Indeed, Laporte just tried to make France a more diluted version of England. A lack of expert coaching is the key. Laporte soured a nation of talent and it seems that Lievremont is doing the same. France have some superb players but they have never been well coached, or expertly selected. Lievremont has insisted on development which is all well and good if he had given players consistent opportunities to bed in, something that he did not do in the SN, specifically his swapping of Faure for Barcella, Bonnaire for Picamoles etc. Lievremont’s appointment is clearly a political issue something that he confirmed by picking players from the smaller clubs, who weren’t international players, thus making a statement against the bigger Top 14 clubs. If Lievremont had selected a consistent front row, back row and half back pairing over the 6N, then France might not have been so hopeless against the Wallabies. They instead looked rudderless and didn’t seem to carry. That Lievremont said he would not change his team, and then reversed his decision to give everyone a game shows that he is far too imbued with amateur values to help France devlop.
Until France change their calender and put a quota on imports, they will start to lag even further, which would be a shame for world rugby.