By Garth Hamilton
July 30th 2008 @ 1:56am
David Gallop, it’s time to merge the codes
There are a lot of easy targets in the Sonny Bill Williams saga: the headstrong runaway who’s done the dirty on his mates, the conniving managers, and the aloof CEO hypocritically demanding support from an enemy that has been savagely plundered by his predecessors for over a hundred years.
All of them make great caricatures for the tabloid press and talk back radio stations, but are any of them playing out anything more than the inevitable?
It is sometimes said that the two World Wars were really just two acts of the same war, with a couple of decades gap in between. The same underlying issues that started World War One were never fully resolved, and as problems lingered, the world moved inevitably towards their terrible conclusion.
The problems that caused the Super League War that ripped apart rugby league in Australia during the mid 1990s still linger.
The compromised peace deal that brought the code back together left it in pretty much the same state it was before the commencement of hostilities, give or take a few clubs.
However, whilst the game has continued on in this no-man’s land, some new problems have emerged. Most importantly, rugby league is no longer at the top of the food chain in the rugby world.
For decades rugby league has been the bully in the Australian schoolyard and now the ARU has called in its big, French brother to come and give them a taste of their own medicine.
They should have seen it coming.
Rugby league could have spent the last decade getting its house in order. However, now the horse and Sonny Bill have bolted and foolhardy legal challenges are unlikely to have any effect.
The NRL faces some tough choices ahead and the coming World Cup will do little to plaster over the cracks.
The options are to continue as they have been, indignant, hypocritical and self-righteous, or to make the tough decision to face up to the realities that confront them.
The later almost certainly means restructuring the competition.
Perhaps there is a third way, a path through Moria, that would see the NRL adopt the ELVs and the rest of the rules of rugby with them. It won’t happen in one fell swoop but, just as the steady flow of individual players has trickled across over the last decade, it will happen one club at a time.
It will start with, for example, the Bulldogs fielding both an NRL and a Super rugby team that share the same facilities. Or the Broncos and the Reds merging.
Then, as union slowly grows with increased money from a lengthened Super rugby season, the league side will begin to dwindle as the NRL fails to restructure its competition.
The club’s board will follow the trail of cash right over to the dark side, slowly choking the 13 man team in the process, and before you know it, a great old league institution will have ‘converted’ in its entirety.
It might not happen exactly the way I’ve described it, but it is a scenario that definitely sits within the realms of possibility.
The club conversion described above is not a dream but a warning.
Restructuring appears inevitable for the NRL, but are they aware of how things have changed since the competition last shed clubs?
Rugby in Australia is arguably now in a position to pick up not only players discarded by a restructuring NRL, but entire clubs as well. If the game once again turned its back on Souths, you cannot tell me that John O’Neil and SANZAR wouldn’t consider offering their board a means of keeping the flame alive.
O’Neil’s desire for a fifth Australian Super rugby team is well known, and jilted fans may prove more fickle than league bosses might expect.
Can the NRL afford to not only lose a team and its supporters, but to gift them to its rival? Can it afford not to?
When Wendell Sailor left the Brisbane Broncos to join the Queensland Reds, the rugby league press said “we won’t miss him.”
When Lote Tuqiri and Matt Rogers followed, the rugby league press again said “we won’t miss him.”
As each of Gower, Gasnier, Tahu and Williams have gone, they are still saying “we won’t miss him.”
And now, as the next Australian rugby league player starts looking to maximise his pay packet, somewhere in France a rugby scout is assuring his boss, “we won’t miss him.”
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Just a Fan said | July 30th 2008 @ 3:27am | Report comment
“rugby league is no longer at the top of the food chain in the rugby world.” Ha ha..never was! League is only big in Oz….to the rest of the world it is a non-entity….
Dave Gilbank said | July 30th 2008 @ 3:57am | Report comment
Garth, congratulations on writing the biggest piece of contrived bollocks and garbage written in many a day. No doubt you’ll stir up the wasps nest (bumbleebee’s nest) with this bilge.
Serriously, why not write somehting that’s interesting - and not the good old “wait, can you hear it? ‘Tis the death nell for Roogby Leeg!”
Your wiritng smells like the worst diesel fish trawler this side of Hull. Mate, get a job writing on the X-Files or maybe Scooby Doo.
You don’t know what you are talking about. Write about a game that you have watched or played, like netball, maybe.
bailey said | July 30th 2008 @ 6:34am | Report comment
i agree with ‘just a fan’ rugby league is ONLY big in Australia!!!! the fact that they feel union is taking over is stupid because by in large, union had always outsmarted league financially and globally, i think its only now that they’re really getting the brunt of it.
The Answer said | July 30th 2008 @ 6:46am | Report comment
Nice one Garth, for a minute I felt like I was Martin Sheen in “Apocalypse Now” finally getting to the end of the river and finding the madness you playing a brillant Dennis Hopper to Spiro’s Marlon Brando. “He’s the grrrrrrreat man!”
But the Tolkien reference gave it away, you were joking. I mean never ask a bloke who quotes Tolkien about sport and dames, right?
So an excellent satircial piece, and very well timed with everyone starting to think the union boys were starting to take themselves a little too seriously. I think the bullied school boy analogy was one of the best I’ve heard, there is poor old union still getting beaten up and it’s lunch money stolen by rugby league more than ten years after everyone thought it would go away. Thank god someone stepped in to even up the fight.
But still chuckling, the blokes who brought you the ARC, now bring you the NRL! Love it.
Here’s a slogan for the reborn body. The ARU. Played by mungoes, coached by Kiwis.
Dave Gilbank said | July 30th 2008 @ 7:06am | Report comment
The Answer! The Answer!
The Horror! The Horror!
Tom Bombadil is the ruler of the forest!
Bet ol Garth don’t even know who that honky boy is.
Sonny don’t surf and I love the smell of Garth’s palm in the morning.
Umbrellas up for the rain of Union propaganda/brown, smelly stuff that will soon fall onto this page from their blinkered festering putird mouths — and lets not forget that you MUST include some good old TV ratings figures for the last…let’s see….six years? Make it seven.
Union is dying. FACT. They should merge with abalone fishing. That way there’s a good chance they will be eaten and shat out by a Great White.
here’s hoping…
Mungo said | July 30th 2008 @ 7:36am | Report comment
Spot on Garth, funny how nobody likes the truth, Union dying? over 3 billion watched the last world cup, how many watch the RL WC? AFL WC who do they play, the Irish of course and predictably have to change the rules, ahhh its good to sit back and watch the panic…
Redb said | July 30th 2008 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Mungo,
You know what happens after pride puffs you up?
The codes won’t merge and this puffed up talk from union folk will just give the RL boys more ammo to stay separate and stick it right up you blokes.
Unless you live in another country the battleground is Australia for the hearts and minds. I dont see union on free to air TV? Just some ‘facts’. Elsewhere on the Roar there’s an article trumpeting the Bledisloe as a pay tv winner - oops only 25% of the country has pay tv.
Union still has a lot of work to do in this country. Shite I find myself defending rugby league.
Redb
Mitch O said | July 30th 2008 @ 8:58am | Report comment
I for one hope both league and union survive as separate entities for eternity. Diversity in sport is a wonderful thing - and to be cherished. The alternative, it seems, is for every man and his dog to play soccer (a much scarier prospect).
Terry Kidd said | July 30th 2008 @ 9:14am | Report comment
Thanks Mitch O for some sanity. Garth your article does no one any good and is really pie in the sky. Redb, you are correct. Rugby, both internationals and Super 14 must be seen free to air, even if they are delayed telecasts. Until that happens things won’t expand too much and both codes will continue pretty much as they are.
In my opinion Sonny Bill can go, and good riddance. The Bulldogs can now go and spend his salary on development of a wonderful group of junior players …. has no one seen Toyota Cup games?
Guys, lets face it …. a player has shot through seeking big money elsewhere. That player contributed very little to his club (played less than 50% of games since the 2004 Grand Final) and obviously didn’t think much of loyalty to his club or fellow players. By the end of this season that player will be forgotten.
alex said | July 30th 2008 @ 9:14am | Report comment
Merging is nice in theory, but the two codes actually represent fundamentally different philosophies. Because of this, rugby even with the ELVs, is not league with lineouts, as a major league official recently said (quite stupidly). Any merger will therfore be in reality a takeover. But do we want to take over the violent mess that league has become? Sure we want some of their crowds and promotional money, but isn’t rugby bigger than just that? If all this a response to the challenge of French rugby, we are misreading what’s going on.
Towser said | July 30th 2008 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Mitch O
As a fan, No problem with everybody playing football(soccer).
But back to this story & the Rugbies merging.
Not being a dedicated follower of either sport let me throw a few points to fans of both League & union.
One I believe if Rugby had continued as one sport like football it would be far more wide spread & a bigger commercial game globally.
Two what is the only time that either Rugby code has captured my attention & been remotely interesting. Its as clear as day when I see a player make a break & run with the ball,which is I believe why the game split from Association Football in the first place. If Rugby had not split this concept could have evolved in a far cleaner & purer manner. Instead I observe on these sorts of forums the chest puffing alluded to by Redb re the mechanics & spectator appeal regarding both League & Union.
One of the reasons football became a World game is because it didn’t split & the origonal philosophy of the sport remained intact throughout, That is the kicking passing dribbling game as opposed to the “Running” game.
If football had had further splits into the 20th century you may have been seeing a different scenario today with fragmentation rather than unity being the case.
For all FIFAs faults it controls the game globally in a uniform & ordered manner.
The posturing of David Gallup towards the IRB re the SBW case shows where the Rugbies are at in this respect.
IF they had not split perhaps an organisation like FIFA may have evolved in a one Rugby game.
Its probably too late now for Rugby reconciliation & one united game, but the way the world is shrinking I’d seriously be giving it(amalgamation) consideration if I was a fan or administrator of either Rugby code.
The alternative is more messy scenarios like we see presently.
cosmos forever said | July 30th 2008 @ 10:11am | Report comment
Hasn’t the merged model already been tried in the NH. I notice London Harlequins in the Super League and I was sure Leeds Rhinos were part of the Leeds RU set up. Garth - how have these organisations fared?
I thought a couple of years ago that the big clubs would eventually have huge squads of athletes and just pick a RU and RL team each week based on the opponent and other factors, but other than shared organisations I can’t see a merged code.
As for Rugby outsmarting League (and this is a genuine reflection not code defending) - didn’t the ARU make a substantial loss? I fail to see how they are in any position to swoop in and take advantage of this. I would have thought they are shaking in their boots at the prospect of French and English clubs taking their 20 year olds away as well.
As a compromise Garth, I’ll offer a version anyway - let’s call it the ‘Bridging the Gap Code”.
The private equity that JoN announced is actually going to be directed at league. Macquarie Bank will sell Sydney Airport and buy the NRL - then transform it into the third tier that rugby is incapable of getting it’s act together on. Put in a couple of extra sides like Sydney Uni, Randwick and whoever the bully boys are up in Bris and we have a 20 team third tier comp that plays union ELV’s (which make union league anyway).
Easy.
Jameswm said | July 30th 2008 @ 10:24am | Report comment
That was a great read.
I think League will become a suburban comp within 30 years or so. Rugby lost momentum when JON left, but with him back and the Super comp expanding, watch it make giant strides in the next 5 years. A viable form of national comp is a big deal too.
The league fans can argue with us in Australia, but elsewhere in the world there is no argument.
Part of the problem to be overcome in rugby is the stranglehold the RFU (read England) has over the game. They are the ones fighting law changes which would make the game more exciting and entertaining.
LeftArmSpinner said | July 30th 2008 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Lets talk business.
Players:
There are more than enough rugby (union and league) players coming through the respective youth and development systems. There is potential for lots more players from the bush and from AFL dominated states.
The elite players will follow the money, the lifestyle and the accolades. The more elite players you have, the higher the quality of the game is likely to be.
Product Quality:
The higher the quality of the game and the more entertaining it is, the more people will change viewing and attendance behaviour. Just look at the massive viewing figures for the first Beldisloe game.
If the experience matches the hype and expectation, those viewers will come back and seek out other opportunities to watch or attend games.
Success by the team, particularly if it is a national team in a global tournament (World Cup) will create the emotional bond that will convert them into loyal followers.
Scale:
We are experiencing an industry consolidation. The big will get bigger, the small/niche will continue to survive. Those in the middle will disappear.
Management:
In this critical phase, all sporting codes are going to need the best of management teams and unfettered boards of directors if they are to achieve maximum out of the consolidation. The IRB needs reform. The NRL has called for a strategic review - Too late for that.
Financial matters:
This brings me to the most important and final ingredient: the TV audience and hence the broadcast rights. It follows that the value of the broadcast rights will be driven all of the above.
On the basis of the current situation, Union can slowly but inexorably take over the NRL audience. NRL can do very little about. The question is whether ARU can make it happen, not whether NRL can stop it in the next 5 years.
Its not Union v’s League. Its business. Ignore the fundamentals it at your peril.
jimbo said | July 30th 2008 @ 10:45am | Report comment
Funny,
but nearly 12 months ago I found myself defending the RU code against the doomsayers.
After the ‘disastrous failure’ of the WBs and the ABs being knocked out of the QFs of the Rugby WC, the failure of the national RU comp after big financial losses and the lack of direction and leadership, many were predicting that RU would die a slow death.
People were calling for the codes to combine to save RU.
Now we have the NRL under attack - the defection of a high profile player like SBW is starting the doomsayers on the death trail of the NRL.
People are now calling for the codes to combine to save RL.
RU didn’t die a slow death last year and NRL will survive and bounce back as well.
What has happened since last year to change all this?
Good showing by Aus teams in the S14, a couple of wins over the Boks and ABs, the appointment of John O’Neill and better management and promotion.
Now a couple of very wealthy French RU club owners throwing their money around and poaching RU and RL players from around the world.
SBW wasn’t Toulon’s first choice either btw, they offered a staggering 750,000 pounds (about 2 million AUD) for one season to Dan Carter and he knocked it back, SBW was further down their list.
I don’t think they realised that the ripples they started in Toulon would have turned into an NRL Tsunami at the other end of the world.
On the NRL side, Gallop hasn’t handled the whole thing very well either and just continues to put petrol on the fire. NRL can afford to lose players like SBW and making all the fuss is just feeding the sharks and giving the game more negative press than it needs.
Money Bill will never return to RL now and the beneficiaries are the FRR and the ABs, not Aus Rugby.
Long live the fantastic sporting diversity of this country and don’t ever desert the sports you love.
Midfielder said | July 30th 2008 @ 10:57am | Report comment
What I find funny reading threads like this is the code that has the upper hand always baggs out the other.
OK rugby Union you are the second biggest football code in the world ………… now take a deep breath because of the size union has grown ………….. Australia is no longer as important as its use to be in the world of RU. My point just because you are an international game and big does not help if your local management is hopeless………… look to tennis if you wish for an Australian example of how to manage the international matches and loose the national battle.
Unions management at all levels from park, semi professional, national level is in poor shape and poorly managed to a large degree. AFL has excellent management and will destory you if league falls over and whats left football will pick up.
RL has protected RU from the AFL. Now for the league people in the modern world with the loss of players if you don’t merge you are dead in the water within ten years at a national level as all your best players will leave.
Jameswm said | July 30th 2008 @ 11:04am | Report comment
Sorry I can’t buy those baseless assertions midfielder. How will league fans head to soccer?
I have a son in a junior rugby comp and it run well and hugely supported in the area. We’re turning people to other clubs because of the high interest. Other areas can report the same thing.
True Tah said | July 30th 2008 @ 11:16am | Report comment
Midfielder,
I dont necessarily agree that union management from park to national is all poorly managed.
Having been involved in admin for a subbies club, there is a hell of a lot of work involved in what goes on, and it is all run by amateurs. This hard work has seen our senior club go from a position where were struggling to field 3 teams and looking at relegation to where most saturdays we have enough players for five teams, and we are not along in our comp either. Our junior section has exploded where we now have over 400 players from u10s to u16s, we now have to schedule games from friday night through to sunday.
This involves getting sponsors on board, running a canteen, dealing with judiciary issues, player registration fees, etc.
I dont know how this compares to soccer at park level which is what I assume you are comparing it to, but one of my mates you used to play rugby and went to soccer said that basically in soccer all you do is turn up for an hour on the weekend, kick it around, you dont have a few beers with the other team and rarely with your team mates, he said they don’t run a canteen. Now I don’t know if this is the case for other soccer clubs, but he said the social side of rugby/the camaderie is a lot better.
The problems with management at the professional level are well documented, and is indeed poor. Im not 100% sure about semi-pro (i.e. grade rugby). JON is a pretty good manager, and thats why Lowy hired him to run soccer in Oz, and he did a pretty good job, and thankfully he’s back in rugby at the top…I just hope his influence pervades down to provincial levels.
Captain Carnage said | July 30th 2008 @ 11:29am | Report comment
And after the NRL, Union can take over AFL, the A-League, then the world mwha ha ha ha (Dr. Evil evil laugh)…!
Cros said | July 30th 2008 @ 11:39am | Report comment
Well said Alex & Jimbo
My Father once said ” Live and let live” . Both Rugby and League have their own culture and the games are about as different as AFL is to Soccer. (try explaining that to AFL types!) Merging would never work, although there will always be players that can cross the divide. Putting another’s sport down is not a sport I care for. Any game will survive on it’s merits, or it won’t.
Redb said | July 30th 2008 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Captain,
They could call it the “Alan Parsons Project”.
Redb
PaulMC said | July 30th 2008 @ 11:47am | Report comment
Left Arm S
I more or less agree - I always thought the Super League fiasco was more or less a Murdoch Media plot.
It was in essence RM vs KP but RM had the TV rights to Rugby in Europe & wanted to expand.
It is business - from the player level to the mogul level - and the “best deal” will eventually bubble to the surface
jimbo said | July 30th 2008 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
The best deals aren’t always what they appear to be.
Look what’s happening to the financial markets after the sub-prime mortgage bubble burst. Over-committing to attract people needs to be sustained in the long run or you crash heavily.
When you start offering 2M for Carter and 1.5M for an untried League player the others start asking for more too.
Ivan Henjak defected to Toulon after being banned by the Force and is already grumbling about how much he is being paid compared to Money Bill.
Captain Carnage, RU isn’t taking over the sporting world, personal greed is.
WHAA HAA HAA!
True Tah said | July 30th 2008 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
jimbo,
jesus Ivan Henjak thats one of the biggest comebacks ever heard of!
Big Kev said | July 30th 2008 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
guys, whatever you think of either sport there will never be a merger for the simple reason that RU will not change a single rule to accomodate RL. Not one. Can you imagine SA, NZ, Argentina, France etc voting to change laws so Aus can get stronger. Realistically only Aus and England will benefit and the RFU would not be interested so believe me, JON does not have the pulling power to make it happen.
Clubs might switch but the games will remain separate forever - they are too different and RL, even if it means becoming a semi pro suburban comp, will never simply become rugby. why would they!
jimbo said | July 30th 2008 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
True Tah,
even in his forties Ivan is a better RU player than his younger cousin Matt.
True Tah said | July 30th 2008 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
Matt Henjak should thank his lucky stars he is paid to pay a professional sport, and that he is lucky enough to have Tana Umaga as his coach, and the likes of Collins and SBW as his team mates, rather than whinge that Daniel Carter (one of the best players in world rugby) is getting paid a lot more than he is, and for a differant team.
After what happened at the Force, Matt is lucky he’s playing professional rugby at all!
Big Kev said | July 30th 2008 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
I think he is Ivan Henjaks son, no?
Justin said | July 30th 2008 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
Nephew possibly?
LeftArmSpinner said | July 30th 2008 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
The management of local sport, in the main, is very good. The vast majority are genuinely there for the kids. There are some nutters, but most are great, albeit amateur.
Rugby at S14 level, and in particular at Tahs, Reds and Force (as regards discipline) has been very poor.
At ARU level, JON is doing an excellent job. You don’t have to like him but he is very good at his job. To their credit, ARU saw the error of their ways and brought him back. Factions continue to create problems at S14, ARU and IRB level. They need to be addressed.
JON has an easier job than Gallop.
Gallop has done a very good PR/spokesman job. He is not driving the ship in any way. League is built on a faction ARL/News. The clubs prove regularly that they cant see past their own self interest.
It is not a matter of the successful codes jumping on the weakened one, league supporters are bleating too. Just listen to shrill Gould or any of the other commentators. Then former players, like Matt Adamson (on 2UE last night) talking of a combined UK Super league NRL comp, played half a season in each location.
Breathtakingly desperate and illconsidered. Honest, knowledgeable commentators such as J Gibbs or Alexander or Roy Masters were more balanced and gave good insight. They too are looking for a solution to retain league in its current position.
A simple, pain-free solution just doesn’t exist.
Not unlike in 1995, when, on its knees, ARU embraced professionalism, the market will dictate situations and the parties need to respond.
Gruffalo said | July 30th 2008 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
Couple of points;
1. While rugy union exists, there is an opportunity for fat blokes to play on the international stage. They are not restricted to darts.
2. The NRL is a Murdoch plaything, run by his lackeys where the real strength (its traditional suburban clubs) have been destroyed or made over. Until News Limited is thrown out, rugby league will wither away and become a marginal option for those who still struggle with the concept of AFL.
mudskipper said | July 30th 2008 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Rugby doesn’t need League…
Its culture or management style…
Let them fall…Let them fail…
Watch the ever growing game of World Rugby…
Young players will be absorbed by Rugby…
And channel Nine will pay to show it…
Rugby doesn’t need League…
Rugby is a true world game…
Midfielder said | July 30th 2008 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
Lefty
I cannot disagree with you more on the management of junion uniors at perk level. The affect of private schools on the local park comps hurts union badley, how do I know because I have spent the last 12 years with a son in park rugby. The lack of any real growth in WS, Newcastle Hunter, and Central Coast …………. by growth I mean compare player numbers in the 70″s with population in these areas and compare to players numbers and population today. Do not confuse good behaviour and good hearted officials with an expanding junior program capable of providing the quality players you need to expand the game and actually to keep the current four S14 teams.
As someone else has said on this site union has very few development officers in Sydney and as a code as reported in a seperate thread a tad over 66, 000 players Australia wide. Good luck keeping your grounds as the AFL spending big and needing grounds will just love these figures.
If league falls over today AFL get the ovals and football gets the rectanglular parks ……….. football has said the only way to build football is through the A-League national comp. Internaltional Socceroo matches assist in the development of football national comp. You see like the AFL football understands you need a national comp with tribal suppoters to build a sustainable future national comp.
Having played semi professional league, and rugby at a decent level, and football, I cannot understand how the two codes cannot work together. Given I played both as a half, TBH apart from props I saw it via playing it is a very similar game on same fields with the same markings.
However as a football person if you both want to go to war ……… then please do. Football and AFL will be the winners
Midfielder said | July 30th 2008 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
Gruffalo
Its time the NRL clubs got some balls. They need to F off News and all register under a new brand so the funds being paid to league go to the clubs.
jimbo said | July 30th 2008 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
huge conflict of interest between the Murdoch Media and ownership of RL.
It cost them hundreds of millions when negotiating television and media rights.
On the one hand the major owner of RL in this country wants to give the NRL as little as possible for its media rights and Gallop lost out compared to AFL.
The NRL centric bias of the Murdoch media is also turning people off RL, rather than attracting them to it like bees to honey.
Not sure if the chain can be broken, but a lot of focus on RL at the moment and how it is being run, which is not a bad thing. The RU people went through it the last 12 months and they seem to be better for it.
TembaVJ said | July 30th 2008 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
That was beautiful Skip… I had a tear in my eye….
True Tah said | July 30th 2008 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
I think you are confusing the management of junior club rugby with the stubborness of certain private schools in having their games on saturdays.
The optimal solution would be for school rugby to play during the week on a thursday or friday afternoon…I didnt go to a school which offered rugby, but we played soccer and league on thursday afternoons…students would be able to play whatever club or sport they wanted to on weekends.
There are a lot of issues in private school rugby as it is - IMO they should consider merging ISA, GPS and CAS and have a P & R comp, as having Kings dish out 100-nil scorelines against Grammar and Kings doesn’t help anybody…better still merge the comp with the public high schools and arrange it into a district basis.
Re: league and rugby at war, this has been going on for ages, you are always going to get the likes of Gus Gould and Gordan Tallis talking down rugby at every opportunity they get.
One of rugby’s worst mistakes was putting Gary Flowers as head of ARU after sacking JON…he seemed like a nice bloke, but no real idea of what the marketplace wanted…I dont like to put lawyers down, but from my experiences, lawyers are not the best people to run commercially minded organistions, nor are they partially good at managing large numbers of people.
One Wise man said | July 30th 2008 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Redb
If you watch channel 7 at about 5.30 pm on saturday you will see rugby union on free to air.
And if you had watched channel 10 last November you would have seen it as well.
The only reason S14 is not on free to air is because the free to air guys wouldn’t pay fox enough money to show it. Not that they didn’t want it. Until 4years ago they were happy to replay it.
The Free to air guys are so scared of League being wiped out and their investment going down the drain they pretend that it doesn’t exist and give it very little coverage.
How do you compare a sport that is played in 110 countries around the world with a game that is played in just 4 or 5. The world cup for rugby league is made up of 3 teams from Australia, England and New Zealand and a bunch of guys who play and live ( also born ) in those 3 countries who have some ancesory back to other countries so they form a team from another country.
A team from Lebanon what a joke nobody who lives in Lebanon who hadn’t been to Australia would know what Rugby league was.
Redb can you read? If you can you would note that the newspapers have as much coverage of Union during normal week days as League.
BTW League began by Rugby Union players being paid to play Rugby Union.
Michael C said | July 30th 2008 @ 5:00pm | Report comment
One Wise Man -
(while not trying to answer on behalf of Redb, I find myself in the main doing so!!)
I’m from Victoria, we don’t get the Wallabies until after midnight. And, far, less likely to see much of them as the Olympics kick off.
Personally, I would be on Ch.10 with the footy anyway, but, if the Wallabies WERE on ‘live’ on Ch.7, I’d flick over during the ads.
Super 14 not on FTA - - probably also the fact that, like soccer via the HAL, 1 team 1 state doesn’t work that flash without a central hub key market. RU doesn’t really have a super strong central hub market. The AFL has Vic, and SA and WA are relatively very strong. RL has NSw and QLD. RU…..the Super 14 format just doesn’t really work, for a host of reasons - for FTA. But - - it’s nice to believe in conspiracy theories - - but Super 14s are ideal PayTV fodder.
btw - I agree how farcical the RL WC is, players playing on the basis of parentage or ex-pats etc, it’s a bit of a stretch to call it a ‘World Cup’. In many of the ‘nations’ where they can boast…oh, a couple of hundred school kids or the like, in the main it still seems to be that RL starts up where RU existed - - seems a little parasitc, although, there’ll be a few RL evangelists who will argue specific examples….perhaps somewhere in Russia.
sheek said | July 30th 2008 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
LeftArmSpinner,
Like both your posts. I was going to contribute but the last sentence of your first post kinda nailed it on the head. No need for me to say anything this time.
LeftArmSpinner said | July 30th 2008 @ 5:51pm | Report comment
geez, Sheek, dont tell me I have silenced the great Sheek!!!! Only kidding. Silence would kill all the fun!!! I note that you added “this time.”
Even Michael Hagan, Parramatta coach, was on the TV tonight saying that he saw RL as likely to become a feeder system for other codes.
joeb said | July 30th 2008 @ 5:54pm | Report comment
Rugby league will survive regardless how many more current leaguies defect. Eg., there’s talk Inglis and Folau may be next with Mason considering, and Karmichael Hunt talking to the ARU. So what? If they go, good luck to them. Ricky Stewart made a valid point: should these defectors/mercenaries later come crawling back (very likely), ban them for two years. One year would probably suffice.
Looking forward to the Rugby League World Cup. (It would be a top show if only HQ would reintroduce ‘contested scrums’ as in union.)
Midfielder said | July 30th 2008 @ 5:57pm | Report comment
TT
My post had two issues, first the private school thing, that it is still a problem reflects the poor management especially when as you point out the solution is somewhat easy. Second union has not grown the game were the kids are in WS, Newcastle Hunter, and Central Coast the union player numbers are so poor union is will struugle to maintain the playing standards with existing four S 14 teams, to expand the team numbers and maintain the quality will be difficult. Also if union lost a number of players to NH codes then replacing them will be difficult and pre mentioned standards will become impossible.
Westy said | July 30th 2008 @ 6:10pm | Report comment
As Deans himself has stated it is difficult for any realist to deny league and rugby has common skill sets.
I have made it my business to look at junior rugby upto U/13 and league’s junior mini and mod skills . League’s mini and mod competitions are better than our basic skill programs. They are full contact with strict rules for below chest tackles and on small fields. with official paid referees. Our one off stste championships and district representative side competitions are behind League’s Harold Mathews U/16; SG BALL U?18 and Toyota Cup U/20 competitions. Now I believe it has been the superior resources not available and still not available to junior rubgy that league has historically invested in its junior ranks that makes the difference .
This may change over time . But it means rugby making a concerted effort to invest its new money in junior development not the top end of town. Some rugby people on this site are into short term fixes and unaware of how little of the rugby pie is directed to junior development. Seriously importing Georgian props ?St. Marys has nearly 40 junior league teams with little to no registration fees; Hills Bulls about 35 ; Wentworthville about 35………….we would not know where to put them . In terms of junior development we are at least a decade or more behind league. Be happy bottom rung of ladder may now be top rung but be very careful in assessing our junior position. Rugby at a junior level from personal experience is under severe pressure to hold our grounds and league is not the predator.
Redb said | July 30th 2008 @ 8:05pm | Report comment
One Wise Man,
I can read and last time I read the TV Guide I didnt see the Super 14 on free to air anywhere in Australia and in fact nor was the Wallabies test on free to air live in Victoria.
I’m not a rugby league fan so save your ammo.
Redb
Midfielder said | July 30th 2008 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
One Wise man
For mercy sake did you watch the last RWC, ………… there are maybe 12 at best nations that can claim to have a reasonable team………… 110 rugby nations playing rugby ……… and then you slag out leagues WC.
Yes RU is HugEEEEEEEE compared to league on an international scale. ……….. remember NZ with 4 million population is the world best, Australia 66, 000 players, SA about 2 million Boers support, Europe, Japan, South Amercia not anywhere near the top code.
So I accept your arguements but use real not hyped figures, and one day sit down and to help grow union, go and copy the AFL handbook of code management ( I don’t mind saying football has) then you will see things a tad differently.
Jameswm said | July 30th 2008 @ 9:24pm | Report comment
Can someone explain to me how private school rugby is bad for rugby overall?
At junior level there is both club and school rugby, and some kids (like mine) play both. Both are well run, though they have their differences.
School rugby is a huge part of the game, as is club junior rugby.
The private schools formed the historical power base of the development of the game, but the clubs now play a significant part and the schools acknowledge and embrace this. Hence why half my son’s school year will hopefully be playing club rugby next year, parental consent permitting.
Mr Mac said | July 30th 2008 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
It is interesting to consider (in NSW) the issue of public vs private schools & the suggested drift of students.
If one looks at the Rugby results in the SMH on a Sunday - a few years ago there was GPS & CAS. Those two groups are static but the CAS has grown from virtually nothing to the largest entry with this year two divisions and schools from the Central Coast to Orange.
Is it status or what?
Daniel said | July 30th 2008 @ 11:21pm | Report comment
A textbook bit of (deliberately?) inaccurate drivel from Garth. Was he using ‘Anti-RL Rant for Windows’? He ticked most of the boxes required for a chippy RU fan, apart from the hilariously far-fetched (and long since disproved) ‘3 billion viewers’ figure for the RUWC, which was later supplied by Mungo.
Union and League merge? That won’t work - it would lose the income from millions of spectators and viewers, who will go off and watch a new and independent Rugby League, risen phoenix-like from the ashes.
What RU fans don’t seem to understand is that we watch Rugby League because we enjoy watching, er, Rugby League. Rugby Union fans? Likewise. Not a difficult concept to grasp, is it? Rugby League fans find the 15-man code slow, negative, stop-start, short of skill, dominated by the boot and featuring less than forty minutes-worth of play per match. RU fans have their own objections to our code, and the opposition to the League-like aspects of the ELVs has been fierce, especially in the Northern hemisphere.
If Rugby League has managed to thrive for over a century, despite the appalling calibre of our administrators, I can’t see it rejoining the other code at any point. Rugby League continues to grow, despite itself, and the loss of a handful of big names should be weighed against the ever-increasing growth of spectator numbers, TV viewing figures, players, new territories and new nations.
Garth also has the standard go at Rugby League for having plundered Union talent for years and crows about the boot being on the other foot. The fact is that anyone who played Rugby League (at any level) got an automatic life ban from Rugby Union, which explains why the traffic was one-way until 1996. RU had only itself to blame, pretending that it was all about ‘professionalism’. Which doesn’t explain why amateur RL players were also banned, and you could ‘earn’ more money at the top level of Union anyway.
Gasnier left because certain stipulations in his contract hadn’t been met. It was all thrashed out between him and St George-Illawarra. He’s been honest about following the money offered by a team that is merely a rich sugardaddy’s plaything. Judas Chicken Williams ran away from his responsibilities, his teammates and his fans. His is a very different situation from all previous ones, and I hope he will be punished for it.
Sammy said | July 30th 2008 @ 11:23pm | Report comment
So David Gilbank wants to talk about Netball
Last night Bulldogs versus ST george (apparently 2 well established clubs and ‘big’ support base in a minor sport called league 7822 turn up in an 80000 stadium
Next door the Netball match and over 12000 turn up maybe the stronger sport of Netball is taking over League!!!!!!
JimC said | July 31st 2008 @ 2:29am | Report comment
Garth - this article is just a union fans fantasy. It makes no more sense than the gibberish the shameless Michael Cockerill has written in the SMH.
Basically “I hate rugby league so i’ll contruct 500 words to persuade myself that its ‘dying’ or ‘in crisis’ etc etc.” A triumph of hope over experience if ever their was one. Terrible journalism. Daivd Kirk and Fairfax should be ashamed.
Never mind the opinions of those of us who actually like rugby league. We don’t count.
I think Gallop’s doing a good job defending the salary cap. I don’t want to pay $100 to watch average players getting paid millions. Anyone who does needs their head examined. Let these clowns go and play korfball or NFL or whatever they like. RL will survive and thrive without them.
The Answer said | July 31st 2008 @ 3:57am | Report comment
George Piggins couldn’t stand Souths moving out of Redfern, I wonder what he and the Burrow make of Garth’s plan for South to move to Union.
Pigs (or should it read Piggins) might fly.
joeb said | July 31st 2008 @ 4:35am | Report comment
“George Piggins couldn’t stand Souths moving out of Redfern,”
Recently he was in favour of moving the Rabbitohs lock stock and barrel up to Gosford in some deal with Dingo to use Blue Tongue Stadium as their home ground — Singo I should say.
But Russ fortunately saved the day, though Holmes-a-court didn’t and wouldn’t.
True Tah said | July 31st 2008 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Midfielder,
there are more than two million “Boers” (Afrikaaners is the more preferred term) in South Africa, plus I think you will find a lot of South Africans of English extraction and those previously termed coloured (Bruin Afrikaaners) have rugby as their top sport.
Regarding juniors in regional NSW and WS, I am banking on rugby union being in a far stronger financial position than it was last year, and with JON at the helm, I have a feeling he will do something about this. NSW Rugby should be cashed up following the success of the Tahs, the ARU will be cashed up following the Bledisloe and the Honkers Games.
I would have junior rugby on the agenda and it has been a weakness in terms of resources allocated to it, but with a bloke like Deans involved, Im sure he would make these sort of comments.
Recidivist said | July 31st 2008 @ 9:15am | Report comment
R.I.P. Rugby League 1908- 2024
League is on its way out. David Gallop doesn’t have a plan, the senior players want out and the sponsors don’t come up with much money.
League has been in a lucky position for 90 years with a strong playing base in Australia with a unique working class support base. Unfortunately, that has all changed and Rugby Union players are now getting paid. For years, League raided Union (even the ‘King’ was a union player) but now people who prefer the variety in Union can stay in the game.
The real shame is that in League the defense is now so tight that there is a greater chance (50/50) of getting a try through a kick than running the ball. League is a tough game until the play gets into the last 15-20 metres when it becomes some sort of amalgamation of soccer/AFL with a kick along the ground or up in the air!!
The hope is that Union can grow and take some of the talent that is wasted in league areas. Union has greater scope for people with varying body shapes rather than League guys who are all pretty similar.
But most important of all is to remember that each is just a GAME. It is fun to watch but it is more fun to watch kids just playing a game of ‘footy’ and enjoying themselves, whatever the code.
Midfielder said | July 31st 2008 @ 9:22am | Report comment
TT
Maybe I went in a bit hard on the wise one, but I cannot stand people who grab crazy figures and quote them as if they mean something, which they don’t. The 112 countries who play rugby union, that just pisses me off. Yes 112 countries play but outside thr top 12 maybe 16 countries it could hardley be called a major sport.
True Tah said | July 31st 2008 @ 9:38am | Report comment
No probs Midfielder,
I dont believe there are 112 countries who play rugby anyway, in most cases it might just be a couple of expats running around. In others there might be amateur leagues.
In terms of where it could be classified as major, I guess this would be in the following - NZ, SA, Wales, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, England, Ireland, France, Australia, Georgia, Argentina, Madagascar, Italy, Scotland, Cook Islands, Sri Lanka
Places like Japan, US, Canada have a decent number of players and/or a pro comp, but rugby never commands any media attention, or is watched by a significant number of the population.
In Chile, Germany or Spain for instance, they have a number of regional leagues throughout their countries, in no ways would it be called a major sport, but they do play the game there. Internationally they are not a strong nation at all. Should Chile, Germany and Spain be classified as nations which play rugby?
LeftArmSpinner said | July 31st 2008 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Interesting and very telling figures from a sports academic Braham Dabscheck in the SMH today: The average salary in union is now $224,000 compared to $164,000 in league. League players play more games ina season, exacerbating the situation further. And the gap is widening!
“The average annual salary for the top 25 players at NRL clubs this year will be $164,000, down on the average of $226,000 paid by the top five clubs in 1999, according to research by Braham Dabscheck, a University of Melbourne academic who has been analysing professional team sports for three decades.
Dabscheck argues elite league players have been forced to wear a pay cut of 27 per cent - while their competitors in rugby union have reaped a rich harvest from the advent of the professional game, with their salaries jumping from $124,000 to $224,000 in the same period, an increase 81 per cent.”
As for the King, we would not have made the same splash in Union because he happened to be around in the same vintage as the Ella’s. He was reserve in the famous Schoolboy team of 1977(?? or ‘78??)
LeftArmSpinner said | July 31st 2008 @ 10:13am | Report comment
midfielder, Sure Rugby doesnt have the depth that football has globally. But there are only a few who can really win the football WC. But, the issue for football is different. Diving and all the girly stuff has to stop. Even more important, the crowds are a dangerous place to be. I speak from first hand experience of assault, in the Members enclosure at SFS. The perpetrator could have been a rugby league player!!!
Recidivist said | July 31st 2008 @ 10:22am | Report comment
Pitting advertising dollars, salaries and serious contendership for the world cup forward as the key arguments misses the point!
Whether you are playing Union here in Sydney or in some park in Bangkok or Ho Chi Minh city, for most of us it is about playing a fun game. Expats help spread the game but when it comes to representing your country the rules still apply. I have a mate in Laos who has to wait 3 years to represent them even though they are about 140 positions down the ladder in terms of getting to the world cup!
I’ve played old boys rugby (over 35’s rather than schools) in the UK for the FUN of it. Seeing old guys still pack down for a proper scrum when they are over 50 just because they like the game and enjoy a few beers afterwards is great.
The two games are totally different. The way you tackle in league is all about total destruction, in Union you are more concerned with securing the ball than killing someone. For this reason, internationally there is far more appeal in Union than League.
Midfielder said | July 31st 2008 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Lefty
Diving girly stuff ……. crowds are a dangerous place to be……….. only a few can win the WC ……… give me a break.
This is a merger thread of union and league, so lets keep away from the my sport is better than yours on this site. I have never to date and hopefully into the future resisted talking about the world game in player number, nations that play, TV audiences world wide…….Why because however big football may be around the world in Australia it is not ………. and being big in the world does little for me if in Australia it does not live up to its true potential hopefully under Frank Lowy football may delivery its promise. But lets keep away from my sport is bigger than yours talk at least on these types of threads.
LeftArmSpinner said | July 31st 2008 @ 10:29am | Report comment
jimc,