By Andrew Birt
August 2nd 2008 @ 12:26am
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Why expose AFL to the NRL’s problems?
Canada Northwind, The Finland Icebreakers and the Denmark Vikings aren’t ice hockey teams, they’re three of the sixteen international AFL teams preparing to visit coastal Victorian town Warrnambool for the third AFL International cup kicking off on August 31st.
The International Cup, part of Andrew Demetriou’s plans to expose the game to a global audience, is a month-long carnival of amateurs from all corners. It’s more a feel good exercise than aggressive competition.
However, as rugby league faces a crisis of confidence competing in a global market for talent like Sonny Bill Williams, is it wise for the AFL to continue pushing the game to an international audience?
In addition to the International Cup, the AFL stages an annual exhibition game in London and this year sent Collingwood and Adelaide to the Emirate State of Dubai, to further signal their intent of international exposure.
Whilst these initiatives are only really attended by booze fueled expats and a curious minority, the AFL should take note of the pressure the French Rugby Union and English Super League is applying to the NRL.
The NRL (then the ARL) was the largest professional rugby league competition in the world, but as the professionalism of the game has grown internationally, the revenue generated by higher media rights is giving clubs the resources to poach Australian league’s brightest stars.
Although the AFL’s international ambitions are in their infancy, and at present represent little more than a kick and giggle, the talk of an Irish-New York led consortium launching a Celtic brand AFL team could signal the arrival of a dangerous era for our indigenous code.
In 20 years time, if there was significant interest in our game, both Ireland and the US could potentially set-up up leagues that may expect similar financial pressures faced by rugby league in Australia.
At this stage, of course, this looks highly unlikely.
But if the AFL wishes to chase international interest and revenue they must be aware of the potential pitfalls if their initiative catches on.
While the Canada Northwind might not be able to purchase the Jonathon Brown’s of today, if international audiences develop the same zeal for the game that we share in Victoria, then who knows how the AFL would compete with revenues generated in larger markets.
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Norm said | August 2nd 2008 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
you’ve got nothing to worry about Andrew. Internationally Aussie Rules is going nowhere.
Redb said | August 2nd 2008 @ 10:35pm | Report comment
Andrew,
The most likely outcome and one the AFL is in a better position than the foreign football codes is to attract overseas players into the AFL as this is the premier comp for Australian football. Much like some of the Irish players now in the AFL.
Roy Masters bumbled through another column today in the SMH where be questioned the AFL’s efforts to take the game to other parts of the world through playing NAB Cup games in Dubai as if this was some sort of death wish by the AFL to expose its game to the harsh big money environment of international sport. He forgets the AFL would much like the EPL has but on a much bigger scale, benefit from overseas growth of the game as players would be attracted to the most elite comp.
Thus, if Aussie Rules was to ever seriously take hold in another country its likely its early recruits would very quickly wind up in the AFL anyway and this would only strengthen the AFL. There is simply too much of a gap between the AFL and the next biggest Aussie Rules comp.
Redb
Michael C said | August 2nd 2008 @ 10:38pm | Report comment
In the main, we are safe that AFL to expand overseas to ’serious’ levels ain’t gonna happen – - if simply due the lack of OVALS of sufficient size!!
It’s unlikely that you’d see competing professional leagues – - the main thing is for the AFL to develop the international talent pathway, as, out of PNG and SthAfr for example, and, even to a degree New Zealand – - there WILL be potential players who become available.
The International Cup – - don’t ‘blame’ Demetriou for that one – - for those ‘followers’ of the growth in footy OS – the LACK of regard from AFL HO has been the issue, and, this appears the first IC that the AFL appears to be paying some real attention to – - – likewise some of the clubs, there seems a real recognition that there are some competitions overseas from which a player or 2 might be got OUTSIDE of the regular draft – - via the International Scholarship scheme, similar to the NSW Scholarship scheme.
There’s also the imperitive via the new NSW and QLD 2nd teams, which means that the NSW Scholarship will have to be effectively off the radar for a time. So – - with PNG kids coming through the QLD talent pathway, just watch for the first ‘true’ native PNG recruit to be drafted.
Now – - – even, even should some form of semi-pro competition kick off seriously somewhere OS – - it takes very wealthy individuals to contaminate the sport as has happened in RL, Soccer etc – - – however, you wouldn’t seriously see AFL overseas as being threatened by that – - – - well, not in this century!!
btw -
Norm – may I extend an invitation for you to come down to Melbourne in 4 wks and ask the amateur players of Aust Footy – who care so much as to save up time and cash to come down here to play a tournament – ask them what they reckon about the game…………some people just want to run (and not have to worry about a theoretical line across the ground), jump, kick, catch, and NOT tackle more than they kick……………..
Norm said | August 3rd 2008 @ 8:57am | Report comment
MC
unfortunately work & family commitments will prevent me from accepting your invitation & I would be interested in seeing foreigners play Australia’s game. The equation I want you to remember is world population outside of Aust relative to the numbers participating & following the IC.
Midfielder said | August 3rd 2008 @ 11:45am | Report comment
Redb
You lost me “foreign football codes” if you mean football, union, and league, well union around the same time in Australia as AFL, Football around 1870 and league in its 100th year. The phase “foreign football codes” also has a certain defensive ring to it. Perhaps maybe international codes is a better term. However calling league international is gilding the Lilly a tad as well.
Michael C said | August 3rd 2008 @ 9:25pm | Report comment
Norm –
ah, but, that’s exactly the point………the simple fact that in 2005, effectively the entire Madrid Bulls mad the effort to come out as the ‘Spanish national team’…………and at their quarter time huddles, not a word of English to be heard…….
The simple fact that in each nation, the ‘local footy community’ is SO small (on most scales), and, yet, out they come, out they come, out they come to play, just for recreation sake to pass the time away……………..
Michael C said | August 3rd 2008 @ 9:33pm | Report comment
“But if the AFL wishes to chase international interest and revenue they must be aware of the potential pitfalls if their initiative catches on. ”
This is a good question. Now that the AFL HQ HAS finally started showing SOME interest (AND also some of the clubs, with 4 participating in Sth Africa, Melb looking at China, Geelong working with Denmark etc) – - – well, one DOES just wonder what range of plans, dreams, etc might be considered.
Extra revenue though……that’s a little far fetched for the time being.
I still reckon in many respects that the volatility of the relationship with the Irish, and especially that they sought to and have discontinued junior level ‘hybrid’ International Rules matches – - means, the AFL needed a solid alternate for junior internationals – - – and, that’s Sth Africa. Remember though, that Sth Africa WAS NOT a direct AFL initiative, however, it became a personal interest of Colin Carter (until recently an AFL commissioner). And, maybe, the stars may align in Sth Africa – - – - it seems to be progressing nicely, the footywild is going very well and there are many stories of those parents and others who are engaged to assist who then take up the game…….and just love the ‘intuitive’ and athletic aspects of the game that DO NOT exist in soccer or rugby.
But – - when you establish your beach head amongst some of the poorest communities in such a country……..well, are you really seeking a revenue boost?
Westy said | August 4th 2008 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
No.No…….the AFL is quite safe in its push overseas. Its prime function is to grow the game and perhaps attract some overseas players into the AFL.
It may come as a surprise but the strongest professional league competition for the majority of League’s existence was overseas in England especially 1907 to 1970………..it was the advent of expanded leagues clubs in the 1960’s in NSW that finally stemmed the Australian quality player going overseas especially in the late 40’s and all the 50’s ..
It may surprise some but in the 50’s there was a higher proportion of star Australian players playing in England then even now
With the cost minimisation strategy of the NRL at the moment and the professionalism of Rugby the wheel has again turned to see expanding European super league and now rugby clubs buying Australian league players.Wait to Japan joins the stakes.It may well be league and rugby players in Australia may even have another market to go to.
The AFL has nothing to fear it is simply expanding interest and perhaps looking for a few more players for its competition in Australia.
Andrew Birt said | August 4th 2008 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
Enjoying reading the comments, learning quite a bit from all the various insights! Clearly, the AFL’s certainly not in any imminent danger but it’s interesting to consider the potential future scenarios – if for no other reason than to rebuke the idea, and crystalize why the AFLs future is safe and secure.
Michael C said | August 4th 2008 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
Andrew -
certainly AFL types need to be careful that we don’t get that for which we wish (via the back door, so to speak).
We are happy that there’s a vibrant ‘footy’ community in the US and Canada for example, and some juniors, and some womens footy over there too – - – we’re quite happy while it’s all small time, and we probably don’t want it to get too big. But, as with many things – - you can only control your children until they leave home……..whether by car as a young adult…..or, when you drop them off at Kinder.
So – - the thing now is that the AFL (deliberately and definitively NOT), sits with a small clutch of ‘children’ out in the real world. Will even just one or two really kick on?
Pippinu said | August 4th 2008 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
MC – North got out of jail the other day! If I were a Lions supporter I would be mightily pi$$ed off at their poor effort those last 4 minutes (but North clearly wanted it more).
Pippinu said | August 4th 2008 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Agree with all the points made on here re the AFL and its overseas ventures (minimal as they currently are). Even the prospect of getting players from overseas is a bit of a long shot. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but so much has to fall into place, and this is borne out by the Irish players that have truly made it. They had to have the necessary athletic attributes, be able to run all day but most importantly, they needed a bit of mental toughness and perseverance. It’s a long journey coming form Ireland and making the best 18 in an AFL team – it’s years of sheer hard work and hour after hour of additional sessions getting used to the oval ball. To be honest, only a very select few are capable of coming through the other end – and that’s precisely what worries the GAA the most – it’s only the best of the best that can make it and they fear losing their very best and brightest.
Millster said | August 4th 2008 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
I think we’re all getting a bit ahead of ourselves here. Come on guys, wish ‘em well, be gracious guests, and enjoy the fact that these crazy amateurs are enjoying a reasonably friendly competition in a sport which is one of our cultural icons. Any benefits or threats to the professional game are an absolutely minute, peripheral factor to this wonderful social activity.
In a ‘pass it forward’ kind of way, I expect that a number of Aussies (individually or in teams) travel all over the place to participate in all kinds of strange sports off their own steam. Lets set an example of goodwill here, hoping that the same levels of hospitality get given to our boys and gals when they do the same. And if it takes an AFL international cup in Warnambool to set up this camaraderie (not to mention a few nice-to-have tourism $$) then goodo and it gets my vote even as a non AFL tragic.
Hey MC or Redb, on the off chance I have a reason to follow this cup, does France happen to have a team?
Redb said | August 4th 2008 @ 8:04pm | Report comment
Millster,
No French team, there is a small Aussie Rules comp in France though. I dont think any comments have been getting carried away.
Teams below:
New Zealand
PNG
USA
Ireland
Samoa
Great Britain
South Africa
Canada
Japan
Nauru
Denmark
Sweden
India
Peace Team (Israel/Palestine)
China
Finland
cheers
Redb
Midfielder said | August 4th 2008 @ 8:43pm | Report comment
Redb
I hope your AFL world cup goes well. Will be interesting the reaction from the rugby codes if a team produces an out of the blue a decent player maybe even a couple or better still a half decent round of matches.
Rugby has a bit to fear from this and its in a sense rugby’s fault as when they where looking to put the S14 team in Melbourne Union kept bagging on that they where an international code and AFL was not, chickens home ….. maybe you made the bed now sleep in it.
Just in case you don’t know the first rugby WC was in 1989 I think and the final at Concord had about 13, 000 with very few watching on TV. From that base they have built the hype.
Anyway good luck with it, my heart says Peace Team (Israel/Palestine) so thats who I am going to back may even place a fiver on them for good luck.
Me from a football stance anytime anyone talks about international games, they by default help football as football sets the high mark in the international sense with. Further I believe it does not matter what the international game of football is we need to get our local act in order first to be able to use the international aspect of football.
Redb said | August 4th 2008 @ 9:13pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
Thanks for your comments. I should point out it is not a World Cup. It is known as the International Cup and very much amateur based with no expats allowed to play for any team.
The rugby WC is far bigger, I would even talk about Aust Footy’s IC and the RWC in the same breath. The soccer WC is on a different plane above that.
Its just a bunch of blokes from other parts of the world who play in Aussie Rules competitions and through some pretty good co-ordination have managed to get together for the 3rd time (2002, 2005) to play for the IC. It is gaining some momentum and even the AFL is on board to offer some promotion.
I just think it’s great that Japanese, Americans, Swedes, Brits, Kiwis, Danes, Canadians, Irish,etc come together to play Aussie Rules in its country of origin.
Redb
Midfielder said | August 4th 2008 @ 10:40pm | Report comment
Redb
Football has something similar that started a few years ago called the unemployed world cup. Not suggesting the AFL teams are no hoppers but similar that an idea from nothing can grow. The unemployed WC was set up to encourage and provide those down on their luck with something to aim at and be part of. Just being in it helps and it has been a huge success and helped a lot of people along the way just keeps getting bigger and in many parts of the world now is used by the medical professional to help people.
I also know the rugby WC is much bigger ……… but rugby keeps giving league and AFL heaps because of its international status would be nice to see the AFL find a player or three in the international games.
I will increase my bet on the Peace Team to a tenner
Michael C said | August 5th 2008 @ 6:26am | Report comment
As a little note re the AFL International Cup -
Previously, AFL clubs were acting as ‘hosts’, but, many showed little interest – what with their own on and off field issues. So, VAFA clubs (Amateurs) were approached to act as ‘hosts’ for an evening this time around. As it is though, across even just this year, with increasing momentum on certain fronts, many AFL clubs are starting to get a whole lot more interested in the ‘international’ element (obvious example that NthMelb are ’sponsoring’ Samoa (Kangaroos). Also, there are existing VAFA clubs with international links – - such that my club is not required in what is becoming a busy enough schedule.
That’s bad news for us.
But – - the increasing interest of AFL clubs probably reflects a couple of things:
->The recognition of improving international standards and junior development
->The likely future need to look outside the normal ‘channels’ due to the GC and WS teams – re recruitment
->The better (cheaper) structures around international scholarships
->The experiences via the NSW scholarships that have seen some very highly rated players gobbled up at bargain basement (draft) prices
So, all in all, a good time perhaps to be a 15 yr old with a bit of talent in Canada or Denmark or PNG etc
No longer just the focus on rising stars of the Gaelic game.
Michael C said | August 5th 2008 @ 6:32am | Report comment
Midfielder -
re the Peres peace team,
check out the link below:
email sent by Kevin Nafte, an Israeli member of the Peace Team that will take part in the 2008 International Cup
http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/2008080500403494
Andrew Birt said | August 7th 2008 @ 3:57am | Report comment
Hi lads, thanks for all the comments – glad to see this article’s created some discussion around the upcoming International Cup. I’m a Warrnambool kid myself originally, so might get down to visit the folks and watch a game or two. I reckon I’ll support the peace team too.
If any of you gents get the chance, please vote for this article as it’s been nominated for the Writing Award. Currently it’s languishing on 14% of the vote.. haha.
Cheers all,
AB
Simon said | August 7th 2008 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
Relax, lets not get carried away. They no longer hold the London AFL matches as noone there ever took them seriously. The Dubai and USA matches were very once off and they barely attract Carrara sized crowds – hardly the support needed to sustain a professional competition ! They only do this stuff once every couple of decades to kick things off in terms of interest – not with a view of taking over the world ! Aussie Rules is still in its global infancy and will remain that way for decades. It will take 30 years for the first semi-pro leagues to develop overseas. By that time (if it isn’t already), the AFL will be every bit as entrenched in Australia as the EPL in England, and we’ll be the recruiting destination of all of their quality players. So sit back, relax and enjoy the ride that is International Footy. There is no SBW style threat in the forseeable future.
Lindommer said | August 8th 2008 @ 9:40am | Report comment
“Just in case you don’t know the first rugby WC was in 1989 I think and the final at Concord had about 13, 000 with very few watching on TV. From that base they have built the hype.”
Midfielder,the first Rugby World cup was in 1987 with the final at EdenPark in Auckland when New Zealand defeated France. The “final” game at Concord Oval you refer to was a semi-final between Australia and France in front of 17,000 spectators (it was the first Rugby World Cup and it was a small ground). The lead changed five times and is considered one of the greatest games of rugby of all time. I was privilged to be there.
Redb said | August 14th 2008 @ 9:23am | Report comment
On the back of an article a few months back from Michael C which asked the question about when a Canadian (or other internaltional) may play in the AFL, we all thought eventually it may come via the domestic AFL comp in Canada or South Africa. Then from left field I read the news yesterday that the Swans have signed a Canadian rugby player on their international rookie list. Go figure.
Paul Roos is thinking outside the square here for sure. International rookies get special treatment and sit outside of the AFL draft restrictions, so it is not a bad move. Looking at his sporting resume he has played all over the world, perhaps he wants to add Australia to his resume but in a different sport.
Biggest issue will be skills, bouncing the ball, tackling instincts (AFL more restricted), handball,etc they won’t come naturally. If you look at some of the rugby converts in the Swans, Jack (league) his tackling gets him into strife and LRT (union) has trouble with the handball, bouncing the ball,etc.
I read they’re looking at a ruck role, therfore a specialist and could work. Marking and kicking skills look to be the easiest to adapt.
Redb
Michael C said | August 14th 2008 @ 9:33am | Report comment
I’ve actually just posted an article on this guy, Mike Pyke, via wikipedia, he’s listed as 200cm and 105kg, on SEN this morning they mention he runs the 100 in sub 11 seconds. He’s a pro RU player in France, and he actually instigated this -
He has a mate in Melbourne presently who got onto Michael Quinlan, a sports manager, and he (Quinlan) then got onto the Swans.
So – - we may get that Canadian sooner than expected – - just not via the anticipated pathway!!!!
Being a RU full back and having played basketball, and apparently he has been exposed to AB’s kicking coach (former VFL/AFL) Michael Byrne – - – he is probably very well placed to make it, especially in the role of a ruckman.
Michael C said | August 14th 2008 @ 9:43am | Report comment
btw -
Redb
Pyke was a back in the Canadian RUWC team.
“He won his first international cap against Japan, at age 20, in 2004. As of August, 2007, he has 17 caps for the national side, scoring 30 points in the process. Pyke achieved notoriety in 2007 for running the length of the field and scoring a try against the New Zealand All Blacks off an intercepted pass from Daniel Carter.”
now – if SBW had’ve just come out and said “I need a new challenge, the money isn’t a factor”………..
Michael C said | August 14th 2008 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Redb -
this guy will be heart broken -
http://www.theeastterrace.com/pyke.shtml
he’s a rugby tragic (good luck to him), but, he’s anti the histrionics of needless swan diving when scoring trys with no one within cooee.
He’s coined the “Mike Pyke Nonchalant Try Scoring Award. ”
“Mike Pyke? Mike Pyke plays for Canada and US Montauban. Recently, he scored what must be one of the longest solo tries scored against the All Blacks in their history. It was a near 90 metre effort from an interception. And when the fullback arrived at the threshold of the Kiwi whitewash, he simply dotted the ball down old school style.
A dive would have even been acceptable, due to the fact that after sprinting 90 odd metres with a pack of All Blacks on your heels, you are due a little bit of a break.
But not our Mike. And not only did he coolly place the ball down, he didn’t even start jumping around and kissing everyone, he simply started jogging back to get on with the game. Admittedly his team mates, when they caught him up, gave him a bit of a hug, but he seemed rather embarrassed by the whole affair. ”
I’m not too sure how this fellow is going to over come this……………….firstly, someone might have to explain to him just what this crazy game IS.
Ironically, the fellow on the site finishes with It’s almost as if he’s saying: “Yeah, I just scored a 90 metre solo try against the best team in the world on their home patch. And what? Game ain’t over yet.”………..Go you nonchalant try-scoring thing. Immortality has been achieved. Now go put your feet up, you’ve earned it. “…………..it could be re written, “Now go try something else, you’ve nothing more to prove here.