By Bruce Walkley
August 6th 2008 @ 5:43am
From Wills to Milburn, some things never change
![Darren Milburn of Geelong and Simon Black of Brisbane in action during the AFL Round 12 match between the Geelong Cats and Brisbane Lions at Skilled Stadium.\" title=\"Darren Milburn of Geelong and Simon Black of Brisbane in action during the AFL Round 12 match between the Geelong Cats and Brisbane Lions at Skilled Stadium. GSP Images](http://www.theroar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/darrenmilburn.jpg "Darren Milburn of Geelong and Simon Black of Brisbane in action during the AFL Round 12 match between the Geelong Cats and Brisbane Lions at Skilled Stadium.\\" title=\\"Darren Milburn of Geelong and Simon Black of Brisbane in action during the AFL Round 12 match between the Geelong Cats and Brisbane Lions at Skilled Stadium. GSP Images")
With this week’s AFL round named after founding father Tom Wills, it was a pleasant and timely surprise to find a biography of the great man sitting on my doorstep when I arrived home one day last week.
Author Greg de Moore sent it to me on the recommendation of a mutual friend, Kevin Taylor, who puts in countless very poorly rewarded hours in maintaining the Footystats website.
De Moore, a 50-year-old Sydney psychiatrist, has never written a book of any kind before, but has a love of football ingrained in him after he migrated to North Coburg in Melbourne from Sri Lanka with his mother and father.
Dad was a rugby man, but accepted the local code as long as everyone in the house barracked for the same team, which turned out to be Carlton.
The youngster played with the old Paramount club in Coburg and at Fawkner High School before winning a scholarship to Wesley College. There, he came under the influence of a teacher called Roy Park, who played one cricket Test for Australia against England in the 1920-21 season (he was bowled first ball in his only innings) and topped the VFL goalkicking in 1913 with 53 goals for University.
De Moore didn’t played football for Wesley, though.
“Academic interests took over, particularly maths and science, which led me to study medicine,” he told The Roar.
He says in the introduction to his book that he first came across Wills’ name in a short article which revealed that he had committed suicide by stabbing himself in the heart – no mean feat, when you come to think of it.
I haven’t had time to read all of the book yet, but flicking through the pages reveals some great insights into Wills’s life.
The grandson of a convict who was transported after escaping the noose for highway robbery, young Wills grew up in the foothills of the Grampians, northwest of Melbourne, where he played a lot with Aboriginal children and learnt to speak their language.
De Moore points out that there is no direct evidence of Wills playing their game of Marn Grook, which some credit as being an ancestor of Australian football, but he may have seen it played.
Sent to Rugby in England to be educated, Wills became an accomplished cricket player and later administrator on his return to Australia, and famously wrote to the editor of Bell’s Life in Victoria that if a football club could be “got up,” it “would be of a vast benefit to any cricket-ground to be trampled upon, and would make the turf quite firm and durable; besides which it would keep those who are inclined to become stout from having their joints encased in useless superabundant flesh.”
Wills and three others drew up the first known written rules of Australian football on May 17, 1859, at the Parade Hotel in East Melbourne, ending with the tenth and final rule stipulating: “The Ball, while in play, may under no circumstances be thrown.”
Which Geelong defender Darren Milburn did, to himself, during last Saturday’s game against Richmond, for which he was caught by an alert umpire.
But that was the least of Milburn’s rule transgressions.
His worst, when he slung Richmond’s Shane Edwards into the ground, concussing him, went unnoticed by any of the three blind mice in a game in which Geelong got the better of the free kicks by 30 to 18.
Perhaps the umpires’ allocation of frees was a reaction to some of Fremantle’s tactics against Geelong a few weeks earlier, but the Cats don’t need any extra protection. They’re more than good enough to win without any help.
And I wonder what Tom Wills would make of some of the umpiring interpretations these days.
One example is when a player is caught in a so-called “chicken wing” tackle, held by one arm when he has the ball in the other hand.
The laws of the game say that if the ball is jolted free in such a tackle it’s play on unless the player has had prior opportunity to dispose of it. But it’s almost inevitably paid as a free against the man who loses the ball, prior opportunity or not.
Milburn’s treatment of Edwards was, fortunately, picked up by the match review committee and rated worthy of a four-game suspension, which he could have had reduced to two because of his previous good record if he had pleaded guilty.
But he chose to challenge the charge, and escaped with one week as a result of a technicality that downgraded the severity of the contact to Edwards’s head because he was hurt when it hit the ground.
Tribunal chairman David Jones recommended that this anomaly should be cleared up by introducing a rule covering “a dangerous tackle, a throw tackle or a spear tackle.”
Finally, it’s good to see Andrew Demetriou’s admission that there could need to be a change to the way the “all-clear” is given after a score. This came about as a result of the “missing point” in the Swans v Crows game on July 26.
But hopefully those doing the review will also look at the time wasted in this process and get the goal umpire to signal, say by raising an arm, that there has been a score of some kind, thereby stopping the clock, as soon as the ball crosses the line, as happens when the ball goes out of bounds.
The goal umpire could then signal whether the score was a goal or behind after getting the all-clear from the field umpire.
Of course. we won’t know if the clock stops or not if it’s in the last five minutes and we’re watching Channel Ten, will we?
Greg de Moore will be guest speaker at Melbourne Football Club’s lunch on Friday, and has written an article for this weekend’s AFL Record. His book - Tom Wills – His Spectacular Rise and Tragic Fall -is published by Allen & Unwin.
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We were talking about the important things in life, mainly sport.
Spiro Zavos said | August 6th 2008 @ 10:02am | Report comment
The biography of Tom Willis is a terrific read. ‘Tom Willis: His Spectacular Rise and Tragic Fall’ by Greg de Moore should be rated the sports biography of the year. As well as being a founding father of Australian Rules Football, the mooted aboriginal origins of the game are proved to be nothing more than a ’seductive myth,’ Willis was the best cricketer in Australia for nearly two decades. There are Jimmy Blacksmith aspects in the Willis story. The early days of rugby are part of it, too. Early days in Melbourne and in the country areas of Queensland are brought to life with vivid details.
The research is prodigious. The story of the ‘charmer, scoundrel, visionary sportsman’ is, as the author suggests, a great Australian story. Very much recommended.
Michael C said | August 6th 2008 @ 10:24am | Report comment
and unfortunately the country areas of Qld brought to death his father.
I still find the marn grook element interesting, as, the lack of physical evidence in support is proof enough - however, in essence, there exists the same lack of physical evidence specifically disproving. There is supposition and balance of probabilities on either side.
It still seems hard to fathom that Wills would have learned the language (how much?) of the local indigenous folk - without some cultural interaction - - living so far from anywhere in the early days of the Victorian colony, with whom else or what else would a young lad play?
However, there is also an almost total focus on 1 member of a panel of 4 initially who wrote the rules - - and, yes, Thomas Wills umpired that famous match in the park, but, so too was John MacAdam umpiring, he of the name association with the macadamia nut. So - even if one were to figure that Wills must have, might have, could have - - - the reality is did he retain any marn grook influence AFTER spending his years in England and was that able to be transfered into the structure of the early rules/game play of a game that he was particularly good at.
Maybe - - just maybe - - it can be left as a seductive myth, and recognised, that - - that’s perhaps good enough.
btw - Bruce - - - I haven’t really used footystats before - - - but, via your link…..FINALLY, a website that lists the tribunal information!!!! woohoo!!!! thanx for drawing our attention there.
cheers.
Redb said | August 6th 2008 @ 10:34am | Report comment
MC,
yeah that footy stats site is amazing - its like we’ve struck gold - ammunition galore.
Thanks Bruce.
I particularly like the 6 week form ladder.
Carn the Dons.
Redb
Pippinu said | August 6th 2008 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Man - that’s some site!
Lindommer said | August 6th 2008 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
So this bloke Wills was educated at Rugby School. What a shame he didn’t spread the gospel of rugby in fertile ground!
The early days of the three football codes in the mid 19th century must’ve been great days to have lived in. The formation of the Football Association in England was as recent as 1863 when they adopted the Cambridge and Sheffield Rules for their hands-free game rather than those played at Rugby and Eton. Some of the clubs who were involved in the very first days of the FA found themselves disagreeing with the new Laws and withdrew to form the Rugby Football Union. It should be a point of great pride to followers of Australian football to know some of the football clubs in the central goldfields of Victoria are among the oldest football clubs in the world.
I find it amusing to note our English friends have never found it necessary to add the name of their country to the bodies of their three fooball codes, soccer, rugby and rugby league; they’re still called the Football Association, the Rugby Football Union and the Rugby Football League. Are they the only country which doesn’t have its name in the title of its national bodies?
Redb said | August 6th 2008 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
From Footystats site, Chronology of Australian football:
1858: “Football in many forms had been played after the settlement of Melbourne in 1834. On Saturday, August 7th 1858, a grand football match was played between boys from Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar School on the parklands where the Melbourne Cricket Ground now resides. ‘The match became a legend’ and is recognised as the birth of the Australian Football code. ”
150 years as of tommorow.
The two earliest clubs Melbourne and Geelong will play on Friday night at the MCG only a good kick from the original site of that very first game 150 years ago.
Redb
gavin said | August 6th 2008 @ 6:04pm | Report comment
for those that think Aussie rules is an “Australian game, or, is linked to Gaelic football, think again
http://www.colonialrugby.com.au/Australian-footy.htm
Redb said | August 6th 2008 @ 6:10pm | Report comment
gavin,
Redb
Patrick said | August 6th 2008 @ 6:32pm | Report comment
Collingwood are a disgrace - all they care about is winning - Fast Eddie/ Eddie everywhere should be sacked for not taking action sooner. The refs are also having a dreadful year - the number of mistakes is unbelievable - better to bring in some kids who are not biased against out of Melbourne teams
Blind Freddy said | August 6th 2008 @ 7:28pm | Report comment
Good to see you have an open mind Redb (not).
Here’s some other articles by historians who aren’t afflicted by the AFL myth building contagion.
Are We Celebrating a Year Too Early?
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/are-we-celebrating-a-year-too-early-20080801-3oko.html?page=-1
Geelong Advertiser: “It is important that students learn about myths in society and their power to influence people of current and later generations. That can be the first step to distinguishing between myths, memories and history.”
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2008/07/31/16740_opinion.html
Pippinu said | August 6th 2008 @ 9:32pm | Report comment
Blind Freddy
What are you arguing? That we are celebrating the 150th anniversary exactly 9 months too early?
It’s a moot point.
First of all, there is no doubt that this game took place - it is quite well documented.
Furthermore, and most importantly, it took place after an ad had been put into a paper to start up a football club (with the intention of keeping cricketers fit over the Winter).
Sure, the rules were first codified 9 months after this particular game - but both the ad and this particular game form part of the official history because they are directly linked to what was to happen some 9 months later (in codifying the rules).
It’s real history - it’s recorded history - it has absolutely nothing to do with myth building, folklore or whatever derogative term you may wish to use.
All official histories of the Australian game talk about these events first before coming to the actual codifciation, as such, that “first” game is recognised as part of the history of our game, and the Federal Parliament acknowledged this in 1908 and it is recorded in Hansard.
Michael C said | August 7th 2008 @ 6:24am | Report comment
Gavin -
I think those of us on here have long since evolved past notions of a hybrid version of Gaelic (especially in the codes infancy), the Irish influence may or may not have come along a little later as the working classes became more involved - - but, certainly not in the early, early days.
Everybody recognises that the game of rugby as played at the school of Rugby was a major influence. Ironic, heh? However, there are still some trying to claim the first games as no more, no less - than Rugby. Quite false - - otherwise the need for a single set of rules for all to play by WOULD NOT have been required.
We know that “Tom Browns school days” was a major ‘hit’ in town around that time.
However, the rugby school game rules as written in 1845 by a couple of school lads had about a dozen rules specifically refering to off-side. The Melbourne rules of 1858 and subsequently have NO mention of off-side.
That there are similarities is self evident.
The 1862-3 rules developed by the newly formed London FA include common rules with Melb, including no cross bar allowing a goal at whatever height between the goal posts or such that if the goal posts were taller. And allowing fair catches - - gee, was that solely a Rugby school notion? Did not other games allow fair catches.
There is sometimes too great a focus on Thomas Wills. Sure, he brought Rugby to the table. But - - there were others at the table from other backgrounds.
And then, Fagan goes on about not being a display of ‘patriotism’…..yeah, right, there wasn’t yet a federated nation!!! Why should it be a proof of patriotism? Who ever said that? What is was was an ability to sever ties from England, to NOT sit back and wait for the official LEAD from the motherland - but, instead to make their own way in what was to become their own country - - - and, really, desperately needing to celebrate the doers.
Blind Freddy said | August 7th 2008 @ 7:57am | Report comment
Pippinu, DON’T put words in my mouth! All I did was point to two articles that offer differing views to the 150 years = 1858-2008 anniversary.
Redb said | August 7th 2008 @ 8:02am | Report comment
**** BREAKING NEWS*****
As a result of rugby historian Sean Fagan’s unbiased research into the origins of Australian football, the All Australian AFL team will be entered into the 2011 Rugby World Cup in NZ.
Their slogan “It’s rugby but not as you know it!”
Redb
Max Factor said | August 7th 2008 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Oooohhhh!!!! Pippinu says “that “first” game is recognised as part of the history of our game, and the Federal Parliament acknowledged this in 1908 and it is recorded in Hansard.”
Yes, Pippinu, we all know that everything said in Federal Parliament is the gospel truth!
Pippinu said | August 7th 2008 @ 8:58am | Report comment
Blind Freddy
You used the words “myth building contagion” - which suggests that you are saying that the events of 1858 are a myth. If we all accept that the events of 1858 aren’t a myth, that they in fact form part of recorded history (which they do) then we can all happily accept today as the 150th birthday of Australian Football - a game of our own.
Michael C said | August 7th 2008 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Blind Freddy -
a couple of mathematical & historic aspects:
the 50th jubilee of Aust Football was held in 1908
the 100th jubilee of Aust Football in 1958,
why would the AFL NOT follow suit with the 150th in 2008?
The AFL Centenary season of the AFL/VFL WAS in 1996 - - because, counting the inaugral season of 1897; 1996 WAS the 100th season. Why would you celebrate the 101st season?
However, certainly - the notional idea of a ‘birthday’, means that you celebrate ‘turning 100′ at the conclusion of the 100th season (the Centenary GF with a special gold cup - -won by North Melbourne…..).
Or, should we have celebrated during the pre-season tournament of 1997?
The NRL ‘centenary’ season this year is actually the 101st. Given that first season of NSWRL was 1908, we are embarked for 2008 on the 101st season of RL……….which means, last year was the centenary season.
Minor point is it?
Australia as it is, chose to celebrate the bi-centenary in 1988 - - and, yes, it’s the year in which the 200th ‘birthday’ so to speak occurs. However, the 200th year ran from Jan 26 ‘87 to Jan 26 ‘88. Technically, that might’ve been celebrated in the lead up to the ‘big party’. What does the rest of the year matter? Or, do we only care about the fact that we HAD turned 200?
Obviously, the bicentenary of ’settlement’ was more about celebrating achieving the birthday milestone, and not so much about claiming a ‘centenary season’ of competition in a sports code.
However - the first ’season’ of footy using Melb FC rules occurred in 1859 - - such that 1908 was the 50th season.
Blind Freddy said | August 7th 2008 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Well, if Gillian Hibbins, Fagan and the Geelong FC historian are all saying 1858 is a myth, then maybe we can’t accept 1858’s events as fact.
Pippinu said | August 7th 2008 @ 9:32am | Report comment
Blind Freddy
There are literally dozens of quality books dedicated to the history of Australian Football, I own most of them, some written by noted historians such as Geoffrey Blainey. The events of 1858 are well documented. In other words, there really aren’t too many mysteries about the origins of Australian Football, so well documented is it, and stacks of records exist to this day in their original form. The history of Australian Football is probably better documented than perhaps any other football code in the world.
Redb said | August 7th 2008 @ 9:46am | Report comment
From the AFL website, a good snapshot and clarity on what is being celebrated, enjoy…
A game is born
ON AUGUST 7, 1858, 40-a-side turned up at Richmond Paddock for a game of football.
The goal posts were 990 yards apart, the field dotted with trees.
Tom Wills, the man regarded as one of the game’s founders, was an umpire.
The game was played over three weeks, the winner the best of three goals in the custom of the Rugby School rules. On September 4, the match between Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar – including several staff members – was declared a draw.
It was out of this match that the modern game is believed to have evolved. The following May, Wills and several others sat in Jerry Bryant’s pub on Wellington Parade and developed a set of 10 rules governing a new code.
Pre-dating the Melbourne Cup, Wimbledon, and even the Ashes, the competition between Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar is believed to be the second only to the Oxford and Cambridge Boat Race, established in 1829.
“I can’t think of any competition out there that’s lasted this long. It’s not usual that you can have a sporting competition that can run for 150 years,” Scotch College historian Dr Jim Mitchell says.
The suggestion that the Scotch-Grammar match is the first ever game of Australian football is a controversial one – there were several other games played earlier, usually in the form of scratch matches combining the rules from various football codes.
But former Scotch teacher Bruce Brown argues that the tradition, regardless of this debate, is to be celebrated.
“It mustn’t have been much of a spectacle,” Brown says. “But this game actually publicly heralded, I think, the enthusiasm we have for football not only in Victoria but across the country.”
The Scotch-Grammar match has been played at various venues over the decades, including the old South Melbourne football ground. During the 1940s, it moved to the Melbourne Cricket Ground.
Today, the schools alternate the role of host to the match, which attracts several thousand vocal spectators every year.
In 1989 a cup was instituted to honour two legends from the schools.
“The cup was well named,” Brown explains. “It honours Dr Don Cordner, who was a great Melburnian, later to be a Brownlow medallist in the VFL, 1946. He went on to be president of the Melbourne Cricket Club.
“Mick Eggleston was at Scotch College in 1947, a great footballer, athlete. He took up teaching as a career, came to Scotch as a master in 1958 then went on to be one of the great Scotch football coaches.
“All the boys who played in his teams, particularly in the 1970s, treasure the memories.”
Sadly, Eggleston died suddenly from a brain tumour prior to the Cup being instituted. His wife, Nelle, is a much-loved figure at the school and she and Cordner attend the match each year to present the winners’ trophy.
Nelle has presented the Cup to Scotch on 15 of the 19 occasions the Cordner-Eggleston has been played. Throughout the match’s history, 107 players have been drafted from the schools into the VFL/AFL – nine of them current.
On August 8, 2008, Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar return to Richmond Paddock, in its modern-day incarnation of the Melbourne Cricket Ground.
The schools will play the curtain-raiser to the Melbourne versus Geelong match to open the AFL’s Tom Wills Round, in celebration of that rough 40-a-side contest, 150 years ago.”
Redb
Pippinu said | August 7th 2008 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Thanks for that Redb.
I never tire of reading it.
Of course every Victorian schoolchild grows up knowing the history of this first game.
But it never ceases to amaze me that Australians (or at least certain sectors of Australians) can be the most vocal in doing their utmost to diminish the significance of the proud and long history of Australian Football - our very own game.
Blind Freddy said | August 7th 2008 @ 11:19am | Report comment
Pippinu you’ve still written nothing to refute the claims in those articles, particularly of Hibbens.
Pippinu said | August 7th 2008 @ 11:50am | Report comment
Blind Freddy
There is nothing to refute. Hibbens is not denying that the events occurred, we all know they did occur, she is arguing that the date of the codification of the rules marks the true origin of the game of Australian Football - and that’s a reasonable point for view from an eminently qualified person.
I am simply saying that there are sufficient links between the events of 1858 and the codifciation of the rules 9 months later to put them on the same continuum, and therefore, we have every right to celebrate the first recorded game of Australian Football as being the game between Melbourne Grammar and Scotch College on 7 August 1858.
The links? Wills umpired this game and then was part of the drinking party of 4 or 5 who codifed the rules 9 months later.
But let us be very clear - the first set of rules only had 10 rules, and much was left unsaid. The truth is that as at 1863, with the advent of the FA rules, a person sitting up on a hill watching Australian Football, Association Football and Rugby (along with Sheffield and Cambridge rules) would barely have been able to tell them apart (even though they were starting to diverge already).
The important point for Australian Football is the the genesis of our game dates back to this time, the blueprint for how the game was to develop goes back to this time (no offside, the mark, kicking goals, etc.) - and from that perspective, the first game between Melbourne Grammar and Scotch College has as much right to be considered the birthdate of the game as does the codification of the rules in a pub during a drinking session some 9 months later.
Redb said | August 7th 2008 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Blind Freddy,
you’ve offered nothing yourself than references to articles that you spin.
Where are your views?,stop referring to other peoples work, demonstrate your understanding of Australian football’s history, if you can?
Redb
Michael C said | August 7th 2008 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
Blind Freddy -
I play in the VAFA - the Victorian Amateur Football Association. We join with Old Scotch and Old Grammarians in celebrating this milestone.
However, counting the original match - - one would be celebrating this year the 151st match.
Or
this year is the 150th celebration of the first match.
Which do you prefer?
And it is still consistant that 2008 is the 150th season of Football in Melbourne under the rules that started out in 1859 when pen was put to paper as the “Melbourne Rules” (of football).
How is there a problem with that?
WHat are YOU arguing? (and please, don’t bring up Fagan, I still haven’t seen him justify why the NRL are celebrating a centenary season in the 101st season???).
Blind Freddy said | August 7th 2008 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
I don’t follow rugby so I have no idea why they are celebrating their centenary in their 101st season.
All I did was point to the argument AND EVIDENCE that Hibbins put down in her article. Given Hibbins is a historian why do we dismiss what she says in favour of citing Hansard from 1908 and the AFL web site? Everyone knows the AFL = Melbourne/Victoria and the rest of us in SA, WA & Tassie can rot. Australian football was being played in Tasmania long before Melbourne, but hey, who cares! http://fulltext.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2003/sportsf/s951881.asp
Pippinu said | August 7th 2008 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Blind Freddy
this other article you quote is essentially talking about a form of “folk football” that did exist for centuries prior to the modern forms of football.
But with Australian Football (and the other codes) we are talking about something being derived directly form the English shcool system - and that is where Wills (and others) come into the picture.
All these people you cite are playing around with the same facts that all of us (and all the historians) know about. There’s nothing new here, believe me.
At that end of the day, if you want to pick a date over something that has continued to evolve for 150 years, then 7 August 1858 has a strong a claim as anything anyone could ever come up with - and most importantly - it’s fully documented.
Lindommer said | August 7th 2008 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
“I don’t follow rugby so I have no idea why they are celebrating their centenary in their 101st season.” Blind Freddy, rugby’s been going a lot longer than 101 years.
Blind Freddy said | August 7th 2008 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
League and Union are the same sport aren’t they?
Bruce Walkley said | August 7th 2008 @ 5:57pm | Report comment
No, Blind Freddy, they’re not, which is why they won’t be able to stop $onny Bill’s move to France. If he was trying to play rugby league in England it’d be a very different story.
Pippinu said | August 7th 2008 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
Bruce
don’t worry about Sonny Bill, what about weighing into this little debate of ours: is 7 August 1858 a reasonable date to celebrate the birth of the great Australian game?
Bruce Walkley said | August 7th 2008 @ 6:21pm | Report comment
That’s a bit like the arguments about the millenium. If you start from zero, the first 1000 years finish when you get to the end of 1000, not 999. Same with the second millenium, so we should have celebrated at the end of 2000, not the beginning. So 150 years from August 7, 1858, brings you to the end of August 6, 2008. Which by my reckoning was about 18 and a half hours ago, so the 151st year has just started.
Lindommer said | August 8th 2008 @ 12:51am | Report comment
Blind Freddy, about the same as VFA to VFL in 1980.
It continues to amaze me how worldy Victorians are about cricket but so insular and provincial about football. I was born and brought up in southern New South Wales and enjoyed Aussie rules as my first football experience. My parents sent me to a boarding school in central New South Wales, which played rugby league, before commencing secondary school at one of the big boys’ boarding schools in Sydney, which played rugby. On other occasions I’ve played social soccer with some mates. I’ve watched VFL/AFL in Sydney and Melbourne (including one grand final), Aussie rules in the country, rugby league in Sydney and Brisbane (including two ARL/NRL grand finals), State of Origin in Brisbane and Sydney, club rugby in Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra and the country, Super 12/14 rugby in Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra and rugby tests in Sydney, Brisbane, New Zealand, Ireland and Scotland. I’ve also watched soccer in Sydney and Brisbane, including the Socceroos against Manchester United and AC Milan, as well as one English Premier League match, Chelsea and Arsenal at Stamford Bridge. And I’m still a referee in my 50s. All the different football codes have their good and bad points which I enjoy.
Blind Freddy, just so you don’t make this same mistake again: the Waratahs, Western Force, Wallabies, All Blacks and Springboks play rugby; the Brisbane Broncos, Melbourne Storm, Sydney Roosters and Kangaroos play rugby league. The two codes don’t play each other, as Prahran wouldn’t play Footscray in 1980.
Michael C said | August 8th 2008 @ 6:31am | Report comment
Blind Freddy -
The Hibbins article is taking a very specific line. Fair enough.
As Bruce and Pippinu indicate - - there’s never really a definitive way to draw a line. It suits some NRL folk to claim the AFL is raining on their (centenary season) parade - - and, yet, they had 100yrs notice that the AFL might be following the 1908,1958 timeline. Irrespective that no AFL folk having been putting to the NRL that the ‘league’ was established at a meeting in 1907 and that with season 1 in 1908 that they are celebrating season 101. It’s funny how what the AFL does seems to matter so much to NRL media whingers, but, how much attention do the AFL media pay to the NRL. (often I feel just a fraction more might be healthy, for perspective).
Blind Freddy said | August 8th 2008 @ 6:54am | Report comment
Michael C - I’m not interested in the rugby celebration, all I’m talking about is the Melbourne controlled AFL and how it treats all of us.
An yes Lindommer, I am an insular Australian football fan, but not as much as Victorians are.
Koala Bear said | August 8th 2008 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Gillian Hibbins and Blind Freddy,
you guys are to be congratulated for standing up to the fact that Grooky is only 149 yrs old and it will be next year that Grooky is 150 years old.. btw Michael C’s argument of RL being really 101 yrs old is puzzling .. but then I suppose when he celebrated his eldest 5th yr birthdays, it was in his eyes celebrating their 6th yr birthday; hmmm makes you wonder what Mrs C was doing sending out invitations to the twins 5th yr birthdays..
~~~~~~~
KB
Pippinu said | August 8th 2008 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
Blind Freddy
So I’m only just now starting to understand that you are a non-Victorian aussie rules fan who is dissatisfied with the prominence of Melbourne/Victoria in the history of the game.
I can only add this:
1. The first recorded game between Melbourne Grammar and Scotch College on 7 August 1858 occurred somewhere in the vicinity of the MCG - a national icon (as is the Opera House and the Harbour Bridge).
2. My memory is a bit hazy on this, but either Wills or one of his cohorts (or both) was/were from New South Wales.
3. Within a couple of decades of this first game, it had pretty much spread across the continent to varying degrees.
4. Both Geelong and Ballarat had a big influence on the early devlepment of the game. Indeed, the ANU historian, John Molony, former president of the Belconnen Football Club (in Canberra) is of the strong view that much of the quirky footballing language (like leading and shepherding) comes directly from the gold fields of Ballarat. Indeed for a few decades, the Ballarat league was considered almost as strong as the VFA and they used to play representative matches against each other.
At the end of the day, it’s a celebration for all Australians and an important part of Australian history, culture and identity - accept it as such and let the historians interpret the events of 1858/1859 as they see fit.
Don’t get wound up about it - sit back and enjoy!!
Lindommer said | August 8th 2008 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
“Michael C - I’m not interested in the rugby celebration, all I’m talking about is the Melbourne controlled AFL and how it treats all of us.”
But, Blind Freddy, rugby aren’t celebrating anything this year.
Blind Freddy said | August 10th 2008 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Pippinu. I get you…. when it comes to the greater good and for the sake of a party, historical accuracy can be overlooked and/or ignored. So the truth is important, but only so far as it helps to further our code’s modern and contrived marketing needs. Where there is a conflict and the history doesn’t help us to paint a fullsome and positive spin, then let’s just ignore it, distort it or ridicule it.