By old goalie
August 10th 2008 @ 12:02am

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The most important trophy to Australia is …

As a tax payer for some time now I believe I’m entitled to a say in where my tax dollars are being spent in terms of sport funding.

According to the Athletics Australia website: “in the financial year 2006/2007, the Australian Government had committed an unprecedented amount - $204.549 million - to the Australian Sports Commission.”

That’s a lot of moolah.

It also says: “Of this figure, a total of $125.457 million was committed to high performance sport in 2006/2007.”

Now I think I’m okay with $125 million being directed at high performance sport. I’m hoping that means sports most of us participate in, watch and play it.

What worries me is that $125 million is going to non high-performance sport. What in blazes does that mean?

I’m funding walkers? Or archers? Or the redevelopment of Brookvale Oval?

So if I’m going to have my say in where my money, and your money is being spent, I think it should go to the trophies most important to Australia.

But what are the most important trophies to Australia?

I’ve made a quick list and divided them into trophies we don’t have (and therefore are the highest priority) and trophies we have won but must retain regularly.

Let’s start with those we’ve won.

The Ashes is obvious, but it’s safely within our grasp for the foreseeable future, bar the occasional and unlikely upset. Maybe a little bit to fund the original urn’s travel to Australia, and a little ornate building to house it in, somewhere in the Botanical Gardens.

The Bledisloe Cup is one trophy which has to be won and also retained for extended periods. Some money would be well directed with the aim of retention. While the Rugby World Cup is arguably more prestigious, the winning of it doesn’t quite match the feeling of beating the Kiwis at the game they define themselves by.

All four tennis Grand Slam trophies must be a high priority - in particular the Australian Open - as well as the four Golf Majors, starting with the Masters.

Olympic track and field Gold Medals, especially a Men’s 100 metre sprint Gold Medal, is worth a go.

A men’s or women’s Marathon Gold is achievable.

A men’s heavyweight boxing Gold Medal would also look good in the national pool room.

But the trophy we should go after the hardest, and direct most of our resources to, has to be the Football World Cup.

The Jules Rimet Trophy is undoubtedly the most prestigious trophy in the world, and the winning of it should be our nation’s top priority.

About one hundred million a year should do it.

And then whatever is left over goes to the kiddies.

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jimbo said | August 10th 2008 @ 6:12pm | Report comment

Old Goalie,
spot on, if you took a poll of all the sports administrators from every country around the world about which trophy their country should spend the most resources to win and lift their country’s international sports standing - the FIFA Football World Cup would undoubtedly come out on top.

Australian football has the most number of international teams, the most number of registered players/participators and the biggest worldwide potential, yet FIFA effectively gets a miserly 3M per year from the government.

What a pity some Australian sports administrators are so parochial, biased, racist, narrow minded and self centred that they couldn’t even be bothered to move their fixtures a few days so we could have a decent pitch for our international football team to play on - in their quest to win the world’s most prized sporting trophy.

Spiro Zavos said | August 10th 2008 @ 6:30pm | Report comment

My guess is that Australia could spend $200 million on football and not win the Football World Cup within the next 20 to 30 years. The Rudd Government, in fact, is pouring many tens of millions of dollars into football, at the detriment to pledges already made by the Howard Government to AFL, rugby league and rugby union. This is on top of the $30 million football got for implementing the Crawford Report reforms on the game.
The Sports Minister, Kate Ellis, is a know-nothing from Adelaide who did not know the difference between rugby league and rugby union and has allowed sports policy to be dictated to her by Kevin Rudd et al who know nothing about Australian sport but know something about the political power of the multicultural lobby and businessmen like Frank Lowy.

Redb said | August 10th 2008 @ 7:07pm | Report comment

More dribble from ’some’ in the soccer fraternity in their never ending quest to squash all other football codes in the name of the soccer World Cup. All you soccer people do is polarise fans of other sports with these sentiments.

Never forget who are we as a nation. Homogenising this country into one football code will just turn us into a FIFA ranking.

We are all tax payers, so i’m interested to know that all football codes get the support they deserve and we dont have our PM driving a self serving international statemenslike agenda to further his Mandarin speaking skills.

For the record, the Federal Government refers to AFL as Australian football. Go look it up.

As a tax payer, I’m Ok with some money going to provide support for the Socceroos in ther quest to qualify and one day win the World Cup. Should it be the all consuming preoccupation of the nation?….Looking at Federal Government funding I believe the round ball game is getting its fair share. To increase that funding further would only be to the detriment of other sports in Australia.

Redb

Midfielder said | August 10th 2008 @ 9:04pm | Report comment

Touchie, touchie ……… maybe your reading to much into the article ……….. never ending quest to squash other codes …….. well lets see who that could be ………

Lets not get back onto funding all codes have benefited …….. AFL & NRL most of all with stadiums alone.

On the name thing as I see it in many ways its has settled itself, union is called union these days, league is called league, AFL is AFL, and football is either football or soccer …….. don’t see the issue anymore TBH.

Michael C said | August 10th 2008 @ 9:57pm | Report comment

I’d never ever heard of the ‘name’ of the soccer world cup………..means nothing what so ever to me. Not that I’ve gone out of my way NOT to know it’s name - - but, perhaps I’ve known more rugby diehards than I have soccer. Perhaps - the fact that Australia has NEVER been in realistic contention for it - means, that to the Australian population it has zero historical significance - - the trophy itself that is………..I reckon the ‘notion’ of the FIFA WC is more highly rated - - but, given that we’re speaking of trophies in particular.

The Ashes is a stand out………….some of the rugby trophies probably mean something to a few people in NSW and Qld.

Knowing that NSW represents over 50% of participants over the age of 15 (a valid point here when talking taxes) in RL, RU and Soccer in Australia (whilst only representing 33% of the national population) - - - let’s then be careful about people applying to great a Sydney attitude towards the trophies that mean something to the ‘nation’.

btw - does a trophy need a name? nickname? or can it just be a ‘cup’?

btw - the old mug - - y’know, the America’s cup - - that meant something once upon a time.

The Green jacket?

and, the Ashes - - shouldn’t they be housed out at Rupertswood at Sunbury?

G MASTRO said | August 10th 2008 @ 10:12pm | Report comment

Spot on SPIRO.

Out of interest I wouldn’t imagine other countries have to dip into their taxes to prepare for a world cup would they. Just grab your best players, all highly paid, maybe spring some extra cash for a quality international coach and presto.

Typical shoddy piece from a soccer blow hard

G MASTRO said | August 10th 2008 @ 10:14pm | Report comment

Midfielder what if I dont play in the AFL but do play Australian Rules Football. What would i call the sport i play

Midfielder said | August 10th 2008 @ 11:07pm | Report comment

Aussie Rules I guess………. I was refering to the overall terms that seem to becoming generally accepted …… AFL or Aussie Rules both the same …….. don’t seem to bother me to much, as I said before football is either football or soccer.

Its not called the soccer world cup simply for years as just the world cup and everyone knew what was being played.

More recently other codes have adopted a world cup format and put their name in front of it.

Foolish rant to say the world cup means nothing to Australians outside Sydney. But I am not bothered I understand football current position in Australian sport, further understand where football is headed, and feel happy that we are heading in the right direction.

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 7:55am | Report comment

Midfieler,

how so? my comments were directed at ’some’ in the soccer sphere who have this dream to make the game number 1 in Australia. Part of the agenda is to see other sports like Australian football die out so that more players are available to the pool of Australian soccer talent in its quest to win the World Cup in the future.

You can’t seriously tell me these people don’t exist in soccer in this country.

Towser said | August 11th 2008 @ 9:25am | Report comment

I guess this is a two tiered point of view.
One being factual based on cold hard facts & two based on Australians personal emotional attachments.
The cold hard facts are that in the broader world (& have some have said already we do live in it & globalisation means that no country is isolated from it) football & in particular the FIFA WC is streets ahead of its nearest competitor in being recognised as THE TROPHY to hold aloft. Even in this country this fact can be upheld & recognised by the TV ratings for the 2002 WC in particular when many matches were in our time zone & the 2006 WC ratings for Socceroo matches,which even though in the small hours of the morning attracted peak viewing type audiences on SBS that commercial channels would give their eye tooth for.
However the process of football being recognised by many Australians as “traditionally” being on a level of “The Ashes” will take a little more time & success on the world stage. But it is happening & Australian governments(of whatever political persuasion) are recognising the growing importance of football to the nation as a whole.
There will always be in any country “Noses out of joint” but it is of little matter if the majority dont need plastic surgery in order to see a bigger picture.

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 9:48am | Report comment

Towser,

Good comments, thankfully not laced with divisiveness.

There is no dispute that the World Cup is the premier trophy in the world. The issue of Federal Government funding is the question(s).

1. Is chasing trophies the only purpose of Government when providing funding for sport?

2. Should one sport due its massive global presence take most of the funds to the detriment of other sports?

3. Does the round ball game with all of its global advantages need any Federal Government funding in the first place?

4. In the AFL for example, the AFL governing body provides the majority of funds to support and grow the game. Should not the FFA approach FIFA to do likewise?

Towser said | August 11th 2008 @ 10:57am | Report comment

Regarding questions 1-3. I guess this is really something only the Federal Government can answer. Having watched the Hollowmen on the ABC recently if theres any ring of truth in it who knows what they think one week to the next.
To answer these 3 questions you would need to investigate what other countries(traditional- say England Brazil & non traditional football countries say Japan ,USA have done or are currently doing. Then by comparison you could make an informed judgement.
This sort of leads to question 4. Fifa provide support throughout the world for football,but having 209 nations spread across 6 confederations one country isn’t going to be favoured above others. Generally I believe the confederation gets the cash from FIFA. So I I would assume that Europe doesnt need as much as a developing area like Oceania.
If the Federal Government decides that it is worthwhile to their needs(& that is independent of my or your opinion) that Football needs to grow then YES it does need government funding,because of the number of national teams it supports & a growing A-League. It doesnt have the cash to grow independently. The Government will decide(hopefully Hollowmen is entirely fictitious) whether football is funded further based on their judgement & whether it is acceptable to the electorate as a whole.

jimbo said | August 11th 2008 @ 10:59am | Report comment

Redb,
football doesn’t need to be the number 1 code for the Socceroos to win a FIFA world cup and they don’t need to “annihilate” the other codes to do it. Don’t worry AFL will be around for another 150 years.
Football is an international game and has very little to do with the other codes or take anything away from them here in Australia.
Rugby has won 2 world cups and is not the number 1 code in Australia and did nothing to diminish the importance of other codes.

It would be a great honour world wide for Australia to win a FIFA world cup and have a great positive international impact. You guys don’t realise just how big football is in the rest of the world.

The money FFA is getting from the government under the current deal is insignificant compared to other sports grants.

In the last FIFA World Cup, the Socceroos lost one nil to Italy in a last minute penalty. Italy went on to win the WC, so I don’t think Australia has no chance of winning it in the next 30 years. With a bit of luck the Socceroos could have made the last WC final.

With more government funding the FFA might have been able to re-sign Guus the Great and give us a better chance at the next WC in SA.

True Tah said | August 11th 2008 @ 11:12am | Report comment

Jimbo,

whilst it would be fantastic to win the FIFA world cup, I do not think this will make us a ‘better global citizen’ in any way. North Korea has a soccer team that did well in 1966 and it is the only sport they have there…they don’t strike me as a good global citizen?

Having the world cup will be a big boost for tourism too, but I think it is a bit far to say that an Australian will be better ‘accepted’ overseas if they are a soccer supporter or not.

Re funding, if the money goes towards community projects like maintaining junior fields, then I have no issues…if government funding goes towards bringing our overseas stars by paying them to play in Australia when they are earning $500,000 a week, then yes I do have an issue with that, if it goes to propping up professional HAL sides which would collapse otherwise, then I would have an issue with that as well.

Hopefully the Womens league will be similar to the ANZ Championship in terms of being able to get decent coverage and increasing crowds, and I think it will be able to stand on its own two feet.

Towser said | August 11th 2008 @ 11:18am | Report comment

Jimbo

The key as far as I can see to winning a World Cup is consistency in actually participating in it.
So we have to keep qualifying.
I disagree with Spiro absolutely in this respect. Australia is learning about World Football much faster than I ever anticipated(just look at the measures in place in the last 3 years re technical development etc) & the will to learn by the football community is immense.
I’ve followed the QLD scene in particular over the last 27 years & the improvement in technique amongst the current crop of say Roar players is obvious. Kruse,Zullo,Minniecon no longer chase a ball they try to control it & create something when the ball is at their feet. Sure theres a long way to go before we can score a goal like Argentina last night from what I call “pin ball wizard “stuff,but were willing to learn & rapidly.
From my experience of Australians & sport over the years once once this occurs (the will to acheive in a particular area) theres no looking back.

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 11:33am | Report comment

I think the ‘Hollowmen’ is right on the money, which accounts for my relatively cheap shot at Rudd and his ‘international statesmen’ ambitions.

I’m far more inclined to support grass roots sports funding than grants for example to keep the A League afloat.

Well I think do understand just how big the World Cup is, that is not debatable. I’ve always maintained an interest in the growth of soccer in this country and its welcome evolution via the A League and World Cup success in getting to the final 16 in 2006.

What I don’t like is the Federal Government picking winners in sports funding and chasing the WC dream to the extent that other niche sports in a global sense like Aussie Rules become marginalised. Australian football has a very strong cultural background in various parts of the country and the Government should always be mindful of supporting the things that make us unique.

Not getting too nationalistic about this, but everytime a US Corporate buys an Australian food brand we lose some of that identity. We are encouraged to buy Australian, support Australian uniquesness and support Australia in world sport, business,etc. It is a difficult line to tread when it comes to the football codes, yes we all want the Socceroos to do well, but many of us don’t want the country expunging our cultural sporting passions in the uber pursuit of global glory via the World Cup.

Soccer fans get confused by this I know, having spent 2 years on the SMH’s soccer blog - the Flog I know this only too well.

Towser said | August 11th 2008 @ 11:36am | Report comment

“Right on the money”
Now I’m really worried

Michael C said | August 11th 2008 @ 11:43am | Report comment

So - - on the ‘other sports’ and ‘olympics etc’ tab - - this has degenerated into a soccer (wanna be the only game called ‘football’) search for the holy grail dreamfest.

……………geeze…………how boring.

re names - - AFL is ideally a single competition, in Australia - - for an Australian ‘tab’ that is deeming to refer to all things Aust Footy - including AFL, VFL, SANFL, QAFL, WAFL, local leagues, country leagues, TAC cup etc etc - - then, AFL is vastly underselling - - in the same manner as NRL is to Rugby League. It would be like using the ‘Super 14′ ‘brand’ instead of “Rugby” or “Union”.

However - - the AFL themselves have worked hard to ‘brand’ the ‘AFL’ ‘brand’, such that AFLQ and AFLNSW and even international leagues are, I gather, getting ‘better’ support should the AFL brand/logo be ‘incorporated’.

I guess its a period of transition.

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 11:47am | Report comment

I lament the fact that the West Wing type of government just does not exist. Although even the fictional West Wing crew would run a polling sample before making a decision.

Governments tend to attach themselves to success orientated vehicles, the flavour of the month has been the round ball’s recent rise and its global reach.

Michael C said | August 11th 2008 @ 11:53am | Report comment

Midfielder -

the ‘outside’ of NSW thing is simply to state that the illustrated importance of soccer is less outside of NSW (Sydney in particular). That’s exhibited via participation numbers - - - of tax payers.

Using that as a guide, however, applying this MORE so to the Rugby codes - - where by Union especially (and therefore the BLuddyslow and the Web Ellis trophy) are going to be of greater significance by far to more people in NSW and QLd than any other state - - -

- - - the ashes, on the other hand - - will be far, far more consistant across the entire country…..

….and has a whole lot of history on it’s side, also has the guarrantee of 4 yearly hosting and 4 yearly overlapping touring - - - in competition with England - - - therefore, regularity of known contest, and against the most traditional of rivals.

Nothing anywhere in regards to Aust sport comes near to the Ashes.

That’s my opinion. You may call it a foolish rant - - but, I’ve actually based it to a degree on known and illustrated facts/statistics (which I recognise are only just slightly more dependable than our personal opinions on this site).

btw - - funding for a game like soccer is certainly hard to handle in view of recent discussions about a HECS style arrangement for AIS graduates etc………perhaps that’s the objective though, produce more Aussie soccer players of a better standard, send them off to Europe, and take 20% of their wages about $100,000 a week!!!!!

I still find it ironic that this all powerful global behemoth of soccer so desperately needs and apparently warrants major fed govt funding……..oh, that and a free new stadium in Melbourne………can’t wait for soccer in Australia to properly learn to stand on it’s own two feet, stop relying on hands outs.

chris said | August 11th 2008 @ 12:35pm | Report comment

Yes, the Ashes is the most important trophy to the baby boomers.

Ask those who have been exposed to the internet, pay tv etc (gen Y and gen X) what they would prefer to win. The Ashes or the world Cup.

Koala Bear said | August 11th 2008 @ 12:58pm | Report comment

Old Goalie,
In the words of John O’Neill (Rugby) the FIFA World Cup and the entire world wide networking, that surrounds it is an eye opener.. It generates $billions of dollars and prestige and business opportunities are massive. That with international matches focusing on the “Australian National Football teams” from the joeys to the Matildas … What other code can deliver achieve that sort of world recognition in Australia throughout the Americas, Asia, and Europe … Grooky…?? Nah it will be a long time in waiting and I wouldn’t hold your breath doing so… (Austrade back the FFA in every adventure they participate in).

~~~~~~~~
KB

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 1:01pm | Report comment

Chris,

Gen Y may choose WC over the Ashes, but Gen X (non core soccer fans) grew up through the 70s and 80s, Ashes cricket would figure prominently.

In saying that, test cricket seems beyond te attention span of most Gen Y’s and probably a few of us Gen X’s - it has become a little boring. If the Poms win it would re-ignite some passion. Twenty/20 seems to be fast approaching as the crowd pleaser. It is set up perfectly for Gen Y’s “I want it now” mindset and compatible with mobile technology delivery as the action and results comes thick and fast.

True Tah said | August 11th 2008 @ 1:12pm | Report comment

Koala Bear,

you didn’t mention Africa???? In the vast majority of African nations, soccer is pretty much the only sport people are ever exposed to.

But does Australia NEED to be a successful soccer power in order to be seen as a successful country?

Koala Bear said | August 11th 2008 @ 1:42pm | Report comment

True Tah,
A complete oversight… My sincerest apologies.. In my view we would no doubt in my opinion corner all of the markets if, if, if, we pulled off the trifecta; FIFA World Cup in Australia; Rugby World Cup in Australia; the Ashes series against the Poms; and the Cricket World Cup.. all in one year if that were possible … No real reason to live after that..

~~~~~~~
KB

Andrew said | August 11th 2008 @ 1:48pm | Report comment

The HAL is only a few years old so it’s fair to be propped up by the government, and it is in our best interests to be competitive in the world game. It matters more than you think. It is a political and business asset to have a well performing football team which is recognised globally.

Take the WC 06 for example. Many countrys were shocked to learn that Australia could mix it with the best.

Now with government funding, we can take development to new heights. Further improving the HAL and grass roots level, with small sided games to improve the quality of the juniors which filter through. No longer do these juniours, or their parents need to be concerned about a career as a strong HAL will be an attractive destination.

Football, with the help of funding now, overtake the other codes based on the highest participation rates, grass root redevelopment with small sided games, a well run HAL and being competitive internationally.

In 10 years time we should start to see the rewards of this dramatic redevelopment and possibly host the 2018 or 2022 world cup.

My money is on 2022, and by that time the 10 year olds to today, who will be 22, will have gone through the new system > small sided games > youth league > HAL > europe.

True Tah said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:00pm | Report comment

Andrew,

the HAL clubs are private enterprise vehicles - so in effect you’re saying that the government should be subsidising inefficient businesses? Sounds a lot like the French approach to agricultural products. In any event, I think Melbourne Victory are recording profits now anyway.

Im not sold on the idea we need to be a successful soccer country to be regarded as a successful nation, I happen to already think that we a successful nation. Countries like China and India want to get there hands on our resources, stacks of people are trying to immigrate here and tourism is on the increase.

Slippery Jim said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:04pm | Report comment

Wrong again Redb, the Aussie government DOES call the rounball code “Australian football.”

In a recent official press release; “Winning the right to host the 2018 FIFA World Cup is a Herculean task, but overcoming tough odds is what Australian Football does best.”

http://www.pm.gov.au/media/Release/2008/media_release_0086.cfm

Not that it really matters, does it? Or are you getting panicky with all that smell of fear in the air?

Andrew said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:06pm | Report comment

Tah,

Where would you like to do a business deal with the chinese? At an Asian Champions League match with an australian side vs a chinese side, or an asian cup game with Australia vs china?? Or possible the cricket? or an AFL match?

The answer is pretty obvious my friend.. Sport and business mix well. There is only one game which is the world game, and business will be more inclined to throw their support behind this.

Andrew said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:16pm | Report comment

Also a important fact probably forgotten..

Australia’s net immigration is to increase to 1million people within 3 years.

Most of these immigrants will be from countries where football is the number 1 sport. Lets take a conservative figure of around 60% of these 1million will be football followers.

That is 600,000 new supporters, or an extra 3%. Business is just interested in making money. So which markets have more room to grow? Honestly? AFL? RL? Union? or football?? With immigrants, and gen Y perferring Football the number 1 code in the next 30 years is pretty obvious.. To me anyway.

True Tah said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:16pm | Report comment

to be honest I would rather do a business deal with the Chinese in a boardroom, and I think whoever is playing in the background would play second fiddle to the actual business deal. I honestly don’t think they would be too bothered, they would be more concerned with the details of the business deal, as should I.

Michael C + Slippery Jim, to eliminate any doubts about the name of the game, the game previously referred to as soccer will now be referred to as “futbol”…the balance of power in the game has long resided with those of Latino origin, whether its in Italian or Spanish clubs winning the various European tournments or the Latin American nations which have a knack of dominating world cups…therefore its only fitting that the game make reference to that.

Johnny Warren always wanted us to follow the Brazilians in this regard…this would be the perfect start.

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:22pm | Report comment

SJ,

Oops…..selective quoting, who is wrong again

http://www.ausport.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/149420/NSO_Recognition_as_at_13_Feb_08.pdf

Besides, why isn’t FFA known as AFFA then?

Rudd’s press releases are no doubt tuned for sporting politicial correctness.

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:26pm | Report comment

Midfielder,

apart from the usual suspects (stirrers, SJ, Jimbo, KB) , note Andrew’s world or should I say Australian domination comments.

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:33pm | Report comment

Well obviously you’ve never been to an Australian football match in Melbourne, where the supporters come from all demographics and all ethnic classes. Whilst its true immigrants will bring their football codes with them and this accounts for much of soccer’s growth in recent times, many also take an interest in the local game.

I guess in Melbourne you could argue they have little choice but the Melbourne obsession does brings it’s rewards particularly as Melbourne is getting more that its share of the nation’s immigrants these days.

p.s. 15 years ago you would never see a fan of Asian appearance in the crowd at the AFL now its common place.

Professor Chaos said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:38pm | Report comment

Whilst the prestige factor is definitely the highest with the Soccer World Cup, the major argument against is the return on investment that expenditure on this would bring.

Even if we made a very strong assumption that the soccer world cup would be won by the country that poured in the most money, how much would need to be spent of our sports funding budget to compete with nations such as the U.S. and China???

It is probably far easier to outspend the Kiwi’s for the Rugby Worlld Cup or Bledisloe.

If you want to make a more sensible argument that the expenditure on Soccer in this country needs to keep pace with player demand etc… that is much better. Though, Soccer Australia gets a MASSIVE chunk of money from the playing public that players in other codes do not have to bear.

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:39pm | Report comment

Just a point nthat needs to tackled…you said:

“Also a important fact probably forgotten..

Australia’s net immigration is to increase to 1million people within 3 years”

Absolute bollocks….. Australia’s immigration intake is around 200,000 per year and we bulging at the seams trying to cope with that from a housing perspective, no way will we see an increase for the foreseeable future.

Slippery Jim said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:48pm | Report comment

Oh dear…and you call me pedantic…

Clearly our good friend KRudd, in an official government meda release refers to the roundball code as “Australian Football” when you say they our gov does not. They do, in fact, and in the same context as Jimbo, “Australian” “football”, much like we would refer to “Australian wine” not “Australian Football” as the title of the whole sport.

Not that hard is it? Primary school English really.

According to your own link, our beloved government calls your favourite pastime “Australian Rules” and the round ball code “Football”. There goes the theories we have heard from Michael C and yourself about why we should not call our code “Football”…

Sorry, but as the Team America folk say, “You lose”

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:56pm | Report comment

Really!

Well you better get onto the Australian government and lodge an injunction to prevent the Australian Football League from using the term Australian Football in the title of its competition. Good luck with that.

If you have a look around a listing of sports also on this website it is shown as;

Australian football (AFL)
Football - mens (soccer mens)
Football - womens

So whilst your quick to claim victory I wouldn’t be so sure that soccer will now be referred to as Australian football, especially when talking about Australian football and soccer in the one breath in Australia.

Stop being so pedantic.

Michael C said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:57pm | Report comment

Andrew -

what, populate or perish???? Sheesh, the latter looks the result of the former!!

True Tah -

exactly a point I’ve been moving towards - - given that I’ve previously illustrated that in the English speaking world, it is only England, Scotland and Sydney that call it ‘football’. That means that the English ‘football’ is not overly appropriate, what, given the population contrast of USA, Ireland, NZ, Sth Africa, Canada, Australia (ex-Syd).

So - - it must be then that we refer to the dominant languages - as referenced by yourself for ‘futbol’, or perhaps ‘fusbal’ or……whatever.

btw - again, I re-iterate, the rules of soccer are “Association Football”. The main world bodies are the FIFA, IFAB, all of the UK are FA’s, in Australia we have the FFA. It is “Association Football”, and, since “Association’ is a really long and dumb named, ’soccer’ works just great. And, perhaps, as Australian Footy goes more international, we’ll have to think up something better than the really long and dumb name of “Australian Football”…..but, for the time being, it’s a pretty cool identifier for this country everywhere they have taken it up - - be a shame to lose that really, especially if at the hands of a few soccer evangelists.

doing business………….if you are going to rely on the odd game perhaps against China once every few years (there, or here)?, or, leverage off MVFC for the year on year uncertainty of a ACL game against an unknown team(s) from somewhere in Asia………

not a great way of doing business. Most of that stuff is retained for ‘lavishing’ existing clients,…..a little networking etc………

the interesting thing in China is the variety of sports they have flagged that they want to get into…..and post Olympics this may diversify further - - although, they have already flagged a desire to become a cricket ‘power’. Heck, they even have turned the sods on a footy oval (with Melb lord mayor John So over there helping), and are sending their first national team to the AFL IC this year.

Maybe, for doing business - - maybe it’s those sports where the ‘world’ is a little smaller and Australia is a larger ‘fish’ (a marlin?) that may be better for doing business - - after all, the ‘association football’ world is very, very crowded, and Australia is but just another ‘tuna’.

Andrew said | August 11th 2008 @ 2:58pm | Report comment

Redbd,

Do your homework before posting nonsense:

Source here: http://www.smh.com.au/news/paul-sheehan/and-the-challenge-of-migration/2008/08/03/1217701846375.html

Reason for high migrant uptake of AFL is because they had no other sport to follow.. As you recall the melbourne teams in the NSL were only for 2 ethnic groups. We now have the HAL which has cut its ties with the ethnic traditions and allows a whole new market of supporters.

Anyway.. I dont even know why we are arguing. The evidence is overwhelming. Gen-y preference, play participation rates, a HAL that everyone can support, high immigration over the forseeable future = Football as the dominate sport in the next 30 years.

Slippery Jim said | August 11th 2008 @ 3:10pm | Report comment

Redb, since it is you who pedantically pulled up poor innocent Jimbo, who should be showing more respect to after he has become champion Roar sportswriter of the week, it is a touch precious to try and peel that label of yourself and paste it on my backside, don’t you think?

May I gently re-state my point that our sport is called “Football”, and therefore to distinguish our national aspirations in said sport alongside that of the rest of the world in the World Cup, it is quite right to refer to it as “Australian” “Football”. That does not mean the whole sport is called “Australian Football” which would be verging unnervingly close to the name of that most ugly of codes “Australian Rules” football.

So to correct Jimbo when he is using correct usage of the term in a language he obviously has a better grasp of (as does the Australian Governement and KRudd) ie, the queens English (as opposed to what you no doubt want to call “Australian Rules English) is foolish.

All hail King Jimbo, reigning champ of the Roar…

Michael C said | August 11th 2008 @ 3:49pm | Report comment

Slippery Jim -

you said “May I gently re-state my point that our sport is called “Football”, ”

Well, so is mine, so is American Football (even if we try to call it ‘Grid Iron’), so is Gaelic Football, so is Canadian Football….so is Rugby Football…….what’s your point? That you don’t know what type of football it is?

ON the topic of incorrect usage.

It seems to me that the correct term is still ‘Association Football’…..and that it is purely laziness (mixed with a dash of self importance) that sees the ‘Association’ dropped off in preference for laying claim to (true) ‘Football’.

The wiki quote (I’m not using as a proof - so, don’t worry) -
“The term ‘Association football’ is rarely used today, though some clubs still use Association Football Club (”AFC”) in their names . ”

illustrates my point, that the correct usage is fading as soccer people try to gain exclusivity over ‘Football’ via the back door - -i.e. proof via ommission?? A little gutless - but, obviously they feel that if enough people get something wrong for long enough then one day all those wrongs will make it right.

I point to the official FIFA laws of the game:
http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/095F9568-466D-4D71-ABF5-C1253A1C28FD/122272/FIFALaws2007_08_book.pdf

“Laws of Association Football 2007/2008″

“Authorised by the International Football Association Board”

“Published by Fédération Internationale de Football Association”

seems to me, that, there’s still enough proof of the underlying correctness of NOT referring to it purely as ‘Football’, but rather as ‘Association Football’ - - -however, again, there are those trying to claim otherwise.

Those of us here arguing against soccer as football - - are in part doing so to protect correct usage. And to avoid being bullied by the biggest player in town. World Soccer - the sporting microsoft. Or the Sporting equivalent of Cadbury - trying to lay claim to the colour purple……….hmmmm, Purple (as HOmer would say, “That’s a fruit”)……..so, the APMFA…..the Australia Purple Microsoft Football Association………

Michael C said | August 11th 2008 @ 3:56pm | Report comment

by the way -

the FIFA website simply has the “Laws of the Game”, that’s the title of the link AND the title of the booklet.

Seems FIFA want’s exclusivity now to the concept or usage of the word ‘Game’?????

http://cms.afl.com.au/Portals/0/afl_docs/Development/umpiring/Laws%20of%20football_2008.pdf

the above link will direct you straight to the pdf for the document titled “Laws of Australian Football 2008″.

So, please

to be correct - - - let us refer to the “Australian National Association Football Team”, or…….let’s keep it simple, the Australian Soccer Team, ……or….more simply, the Socceroos and Olyroos…….so, there’s not hatred, animosity or ambiguity.

Slippery Jim said | August 11th 2008 @ 4:02pm | Report comment

Michael C, you are absolutely spot on, Association football is the correct specific term. I agree. Wholeheartedly. Well done.

The trouble with being overly particular is you end up looking a bit cuckoo, I mean, nobody in their right mind calls their car an “automobile”, nor a pram a “perambulator” nor a bus an “omnibus” in common usage, not unless they are a bit peculiar.

So by all means, refer to the round call code as “Association Football” if you like, but don’t be surprised if people think you’re a bit ‘touched in the head”

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 4:05pm | Report comment

champ or chump?

Congrats to Jimbo, no worries there.

Ugly could also describe your football code I’m afraid. Particularly the diving, I wouldn’t give some of those dives from the recent WC more than a 3.2 out of 10.

Slippery Jim said | August 11th 2008 @ 4:12pm | Report comment

Redb, Maybe it’s just me that finds it ugly, I know female friends of mine from the US enjoy watching AFL purely for what they like to feel is the eye candy (a bit like me with women’s hockey). Can’t see it myself, but obviously they find something attractive about meatheads in tight shorts…I’m assuming you are attracted to something similar?

Andrew said | August 11th 2008 @ 4:13pm | Report comment

Redb ugly?

Have you watched a game of afl? All they do is fumble the ball, and if they miss a goal they get a second chance point.

Ugly is the best way to describe AFL. Football is the beautiful game.

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 4:14pm | Report comment

Did you inadvertently provide the wrong link? this one quotes:

“Did you know the migration program for 2008-09 has set a target of 190,300 places”

You said: “Reason for high migrant uptake of AFL is because they had no other sport to follow.”

Yes we have a different type of scanner in the immigration section of Melbourne airport - it is based on the Harry Potter selection of Houses at Hogwarts. It scans and automaticially infuses the unsuspecting immigrant with an AFL team to follow. Concurrently it runs a IQ test and assigns those in the lower deciles with a mind implanted magpie. Or perhaps a Victory logo.

Andrew said | August 11th 2008 @ 4:27pm | Report comment

redb read page two you twit..

This is a well documented and discussed issue. You really should read the print media more often. Maybe then you would be in touch with issues around the country including football being a dominant force in the next 30 years.

Koala Bear said | August 11th 2008 @ 4:38pm | Report comment

Well it looks like only 2 out of the 10 English speaking countries call their Real Football code Socca.. According to the Associations list on the FIFA web site of registered Ltd associations .. All are called Football….. except 2 guess who…?

England
The Football Association Ltd.
25 Soho Square LONDON W1D 4FA

The Scottish Football Association
Hampden Park GLASGOW G42 9AY

Football Federation Australia Limited
Level 7 26 College Street Locked bag A4071 (Sydney South NSW 1235) SYDNEY NSW 2000

South African Football Association
125 Samuel Evans Road Aeroton JOHANNESBURG

The Football Association of Ireland
National Sports Campus, Abbotstown DUBLIN 15

Irish Football Association Ltd.
20 Windsor Avenue BELFAST BT9 6EG

The Canadian Soccer Association
Place Soccer Canada 237 Metcalfe Street OTTAWA ONT K2P 1R2

US Soccer Federation
US Soccer House 1801 S. Prairie Avenue CHICAGO IL 60616

The Football Association of Wales, Ltd
11 / 12 Neptune Court Vanguard Way CARDIFF CF24 5PJ

New Zealand Football
North Harbour Stadium Oteha Valley Road P.O. Box 301 043 ALBANY

Koala Bear said | August 11th 2008 @ 4:50pm | Report comment

Comrade C,
its Marn Grook or as I affectionately love to refer to it as “Grooky” but not as you know it… She’ll becomin’ around the Marn Grook when she comes…. Harrow Football … the name Football coined in England 14th century .. Its a bit like the Australian Wine industry trying to steel the name Champagne from the French don’t you think..?.

True Tah said | August 11th 2008 @ 4:53pm | Report comment

in South Africa futbol is still referred to as soccer

The top futbol league PSL standards for Premier Soccer League.

Koala Bear said | August 11th 2008 @ 5:05pm | Report comment

True Tah,
all depends who you talk to ie the President of the SA Football Association or the President to the Rugby Union Association.
I can tell you after the 2010 World Cup it will be Football but not as you know it… Futbol is that Africana ? any ways translation Football… stick to the registered names btw Association Football is not a registered name..

Koala Bear said | August 11th 2008 @ 5:29pm | Report comment

True Tah,
maybe to the white Africana Rugby community its Socca but I would say the black population have quickly picked up on the term “Football”…

You should watch more SBS (The world game) with “Futbol Montial” (SP) all the kid are calling it Football when they are on camera.. go with the flow.. my boy..

Michael C said | August 11th 2008 @ 5:35pm | Report comment

exactly right.

But……it was one thing to have the “Ford Ka”, but, could you imagine the “Ford Car”……people speak about ‘Cars’ and you’re no longer sure what is meant. Car is the generic term.
Similarly, beer - - - we all drink beer (at one time or another, I presume)……If I go into a bar and ask for a beer - I expect to have to qualify my request - - - and, thankfully, there is no single brew known simply as “Beer”……although in QLD “XXXX” may equate to one and the same thing……KB????

onto KB - - Champagne is a regional variety of wine. That would be like someone trying to claim to be “Barossa” when they aren’t…….or Australian Football when they really are “(World) Association Football”…………wine, after all, is such a generic phrase as to describe all varieties, all regions……….a bit like “Football”.

KB -

presenting the FFA as some form of a ‘proof’ is a little ridiculous wouldn’t you say??? The whole point is there’s a soccer fundamentalist modern movement to ‘re-brand’, globally - - all you’re doing is proving the point.

No - - did you perhaps note that 7 of those were presented as “Football Association”……..(they’ve moved ‘Association’ to the back of ‘football’, a bit sneaky, it’ll be out the door next!!, but, they’re still playin’ by the “Laws of Association Football” if in the English FA or just the “Laws of the game”………no wonder the soccer fraternity is so confused and seeking clarity…….

KB….you have my sympathies, it must be so hard, being so global and yet still seeking redemption.

being everywhere and yet being nowhere

searching for identity regionally, based upon a global falsehood.

For you and your associates, I find you guilty by association………

(is it Friday yet?!??!)

Pippinu said | August 11th 2008 @ 5:38pm | Report comment

The World Cup is the biggest trophy in the World, and soccer is the biggest game in the World - but that tells me that it should be funding itself many times over - soccer doesn’t need any Government funding - and to seek it is an admission of failure.

Australian Football is celebrating 150 years, and over that time it has barely received a cent in direct Government funding of any description, indeed, it has contributed mightily to the upkeep of many of the nation’s great stadiums.

Michael C said | August 11th 2008 @ 5:46pm | Report comment

“maybe to the white Africana Rugby community its Socca but I would say the black population have quickly picked up on the term “Football”…

You should watch more SBS (The world game) with “Futbol Montial” (SP) all the kid are calling it Football when they are on camera.. go with the flow.. my boy..”

so - - you’re admitting that soccer is trying to mislead the masses…………………

ah, such an evil empire using devious means, brain washing the uneducated, the lower classes,……spreading a lie by such devious means……………..it really is a bit grubby,….isn’t it KB???

Koala Bear said | August 11th 2008 @ 6:03pm | Report comment

Comrade C,
more grubbier to try and steal a name belonging to another nation. I shall not condone such actions .. It seems the French are much smarter than the English in reclaiming an important name from their Football History.. What do they call it, intellectual ownership..? hmmm now Marn Grook a good start to for an International Organisation.. Seize the moment Comrade.. and forget your evil carpet bagging ways..

Koala Bear said | August 11th 2008 @ 6:21pm | Report comment

Pippinu,
not true all Grooky suburban stadiums in Victoria are all state government owned and are in the process of all Melbourne club grounds getting a face lift to the tune of millions of tax payers dollars.. And finally we have a Melbourne jurno “Gillian Hibbins” blowing the whistle by telling it, how it, really is, with Grooky’s real birthday is 1859… It sorts of exonerates Roy Masters. You could learn a lot from a person like Gillian… Good night all tea is on the table…

~~~~~~
KB

Redb said | August 11th 2008 @ 7:59pm | Report comment

A soccer fan insinuating that the AFL is girlie is like Bin Laden suggesting the Samoan Peoples Front are too radical. Seriously, the AFL is lot of tougher than soccer dont even go there your just demonstrating your ignorance and hypocrisy.

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