I read that the All Blacks on the 1905 tour to Britain and Ireland, the one captained by Dave Gallagher, used their hooker to throw the ball into the lineout, which was considered innovative at the time because the common practice then was for the scrum half or wing to throw the ball in.

For some reason, they had stopped doing it nearly 70 years later when I saw them, but they do do it again now.

So like many things in rugby, this thing is just a vogue that swings in and out of fashion. There is absolutely no hard and fast reason why the hooker HAS to throw it in.

Of course the receiver had to make up ten yards, which meant that the pass was extremely vulnerable to an interception, which is probably why it is not used so much. But with the benefit of the element of surprise it is something that can be and has been done.

And let’s face it. You can’t get more “Northern Hemisphere” than a bloody Russian!!!

This jibe “if we in the SH have an original idea, all the NH guys will immediately find ten reasons why it’s not a good one” is as unfair in what I assume to be its attempted meaning as it is illogical in its actual expression.

After all, if somebody can come up with ten reasons why something isn’t a good idea, that at least suggests that the idea is debatable.

I thought I had posted here a piece ( I either forgot to press the button or it just didn’t appear) in favour of varying who throws the ball into the lineout. I’m all in favour of mixing things up tactically and thinking outside the box.

What I would object to, and what I think you meant to refer to, would be you SH types saying. “Let’s write into the laws that it MUST be your shortest fattest slowest bloke who throws the ball into the lineout because that will make the game quicker”

There’s a difference.

In 1987 when I was in the Navy and my ship was visiting Manila, we played in a tournament at the Nomads club (what an experience, and what a great club!).

We played against two USA teams, Marines and Navy. I can’t remember which one it was, but these big black guys were throwing gridiron passes across the field almost from one side to the other. Imagine if they had had the benefit of the ELV’s. You can just see it. Who says you have to throw it into the lineout. Why not throw it clear across the paddock to a waiting winger?

The mind boggles with the possibilities.

You are totally correct. You don’t drop Giteau if his kicking goes off the boil, you just get another kicker.

We could experiment with everyone in the squad. Wendell Sailor, for instance would have been worth a try because he couldn’t do much else….but seriously, the guy with the best skills should be the thrower, and imagine …. the innovative coaches could probably find ways to use it to their advantage.

Training sessions would be a lot more fun, too.

Spiro’s idea has some merit, but you couldn’t seriously suggest that Dan Vickerman should be the thrower, when we need him to win ball.

I still remember the days of the winger doing the “Warnie” loop, with the ball going end over end, and the lineout being a complete brawl.

However, let’s not forget that if we in the SH have an original idea, all the NH guys will immediately find ten reasons why it’s not a good one!

You could have a long throw specialist, a short throw specialist, etc, you could develop variations on the current throwing technique, the mind boggles. Mind you, you’d only get away with that against the Irish!

It’s refreshing to think that we can open up a whole new line of thinking in our game. Can our RL mates say that?

I watched Batty score off his own throw against Eastern Transvaal in ’76.

It’s a lineout in the 1973 Barbarians New Zealand match. Even if Cliff Morgan’s commentary is wrong “John Pullin, England’s Captain” the number two on his back is a giveaway. Furthermore, those of us old enough to remember what John Pullin looked like can confirm that it is indeed he throwing the ball in.

However, I remember going to a couple of the games in Ireland on that tour as a kid and the All Blacks used their wingers to throw in. I remember because they used an unusual action that I had not seen before. The winger stood sideways on to the touchline and lobbed the ball in one handed over his head like a hand grenade.

It was definitley the early to mid 1970s when it became popular for the hooker to throw the ball in.

I was trying to research who pioneered using hookers to throw the ball in and apparently it was Dave Gallaher’s 1905 All Blacks.

In the 70s it seems Pullin and Windsor were the first hookers to throw the ball in. 1975 was the earliest footage I could find of them throwing the ball in. France were using wingers from the late 70s footage I watched and in the 1979 France/NZ Test at Eden Park both Dalton and Wilson threw the ball in.

Interesting enough, the Wallabies used wingers in their loss to Tonga in 1973. The comentator mentions Tonga’s success in the lineouts.

Speaking of hookers scoring tries, I watched Uli Schmidt score a beauty today — http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=wIEeddJwVj8 (NZ Cavaliers vs Springboks highlights, well worth watching if you think Botha or Fox were just kickers.)

As stated here, wingers used to but you had a different thrower on each side of the field and that lacked consistency.

In the late 1970s, the French reckoned the beat thrower was the halfback and he was used for a couple of years. Two problems emerged, one was that the half was a shorter man so had to throw a much higher lob to reach his catchers. The other problem was that a flanker had to play behind the lineout as the receiver because the half was guardibg the front of the line and the flanker did not have the passing skills of the halfback. They reverted to the hooker throwing the ball.

If you packed down in the middle of an ugly scrum all day with the hardest men on the field and then had to play the ball with your feet you would want to get to touch the ball every now and then too…Hence the hooker gets to touch the ball during the lineout throw, its a reward…for scrummaging…

But are Hookers scoring to many tries these days is the real question?

The reason one position throws into the lineout is so that when he is replaced, his replacement can also throw into the lineout. A French club (which still uses its 9s to throw into the lineout) recently paid a lot of money for a good Currie Cup halfback. However, he spent two thirds of the season learning to throw into the lineout while the existing substandard halfback played.

Whatever model you use, whether it be 7s, 9s or 2s throwing into the lineout, everyone has to do it. TPN has a weak throw at times, but what’s to say that Pocock wouldnt be worse? This isnt a solution. Continuing to teach TPN to throw is a solution.

In practice at fixed targets they hit 49/50 throws.

They say that throwing in is the most difficult closed skill to execute in a game of rugby. The hooker has to stay relaxed to achieve an accurate, powerful throw, and as Jim rightly points out, fatigue plays a huge part, not only in the throwing but also in the lifting.

Speaking of throwing in, Fred Allen had this to say about the twins James and Stewart Boyce — “wings of good class, but as throwers-in from touch each was a genius. Each had developed the torpedo throw, curving the fingers under the ball as it left the hand to produce a spinning flight in the one plane.”

The American winger Peter Dawkins usually gets credited for popularising the torpedo throw at Oxford in 1959, perhaps Jim can tell us where he picked it up? Prior to that it was two hands from between the legs, right?

Nowadays, if you throw fairly flat to 4, someone lifted at 2 or 3 is a fair chance of catching it or getting a hand to it.

For fear of even mentioning the name, I don’t think we’re even close to the Tahu record for Roar discussions!

I think you generally want the best thrower of the ball to throw the ball. Height would be nice but . . . .

Some years ago my hometown NFL team (the Seattle Seahawks) drafted a quarterback named Dan McGwire, who is the brother of baseball player Mark McGwire. Anyway, Dan McGwire was 6’8″ (very tall for an NFL QB) and it was postulated that such height would be advantageous because he could see clearly over the oncoming pass rush.

As these stories often end, the theory and what actually happened were substantially different. While he could see clearly over the line of scrimmage, he couldn’t throw the ball worth a damn. He was ineffective, to say the least, and only spent four or maybe five years in the NFL.

I agree with your concept of making more use of tall players around the field. High kicks in the direction of a height mismatch, etc are effective provided the kick is reasonably well-placed.