The FFA serves the ‘bad China’ and we want answers

jimbo said  | August 19th 2008 @ 9:52am | Report comment

What is this crazy love affair between FFA and Graham Arnold?

Any other professional football manager who went to a major tournament and only got one goal and one lucky point in three games and played crap football most of the time would resign of their own free will.

Doesn’t the FFA and Arnold get it?

Australian football will go backwards if Arnold is still Pimbo’s assistant and keeps whispering sweet nothing in his ear.

Pimbo already has a highly paid assistant coach so p1ss Arnold off now!

Slippery Jim said  | August 19th 2008 @ 10:25am | Report comment

Bear, the FFA is not an employee of the Australian public. Their funding comes mainly from corporate sources.

I actually think the Olyroos did the best with what they had, and can be proud of their performance at the Olympics, we did not disgrace ourselves by any means.

Well done Arnold and the lads, and better luck next time.

Towser said  | August 19th 2008 @ 10:31am | Report comment

True Tah

This is the way it should have been done.
Arnold slipped ito the coaching system at international level much the same as Frank Farina did,with limited club coaching experience & then only at NSL level.
Farina is now coaching in the A-League learning the trade at the nuts & bolts level. Arnie should do the same.
International football is NOT for the inexperienced. Farina & Postecoglou showed that emphatically.
Aurelio Vidmar is a coach to consider for the future also Gary Van Egmond. Both are being exposed to International football experience through the ACL Vidmar currently Van Egmond shortly.This is the way to go. Not “I played for the Socceroos”therefore I am a coach. The world is littered with the corpses of coaches such as these.
Arnie was still shouting “Go Son” at the Olympics the same as at the Asian Cup. Says it all really.

jimbo said  | August 19th 2008 @ 10:39am | Report comment

Slippery,
W-League is owned and run by the FFA and they wear all the losses (it ain’t going to make money) so a complete different kettle of fish to the A-League where the clubs are owned and managed by the club owners.

FFA would not be able to give Arnie a job as an A-League manager, so he is the FFA’s floating assistant Socceroos manager.

The Bear said  | August 19th 2008 @ 10:50am | Report comment

Slippery Jim, astute observation. However, the FFA will be lawfully held to account from ALL it’s stakeholders.

Graciously,
The Bear

jimbo said  | August 19th 2008 @ 11:00am | Report comment

True Tah,
I’m sure Arnie is a top bloke and would love to have a beer with us, but . . .

You Rugby guys have tasted the success of a 2 World Cup victories, Super 12 titles, Bledisloe Cups, which are the pinnacle of world Rugby.

We football supporters are still waiting to even get to a final in any of our major competitions, including an Asian Cup or even an Asian Champions League game.

So we are getting very critical of failure and need to push our administrators very hard to do the very best to improve our game.
When you do worse at a competition than you did last time and your Olyroos team is not a joy to watch even in defeat, then you have to demand change to get that required improvement.

dasilva said  | August 19th 2008 @ 11:31am | Report comment

Ok the performance at the Olympics were shameful. Not because we lost most of the game and only have one point but because we played poorly for 2 and a half games (excluding the first half against Ivory Coast). It was a dismal performance. We don’t expec the team to beat argentina or even to out possess the team (which is more difficult then beating them) but we expect them to try and keep the ball against them instead of launching long balls to Archie and Nikita. To me that was the critical failure of Arnold.

The selection would have been acceptable if Arnold said that Burns and Djite were admitted for them to play for new clubs. however Dario Vidosic omission were bit puzzling especially when he played well in the qualifiers.

I actually believe that Mark Milligan has potential as a DM as he played ok against Ivory Coast and a few A-league games for Sydney for that position. its the only position he can play considering that North and Spiranovic were better options in the back. He certainly went off the rails recently and played poorly in the first two games but I think that was because of him instead of being a DM. He would have played just as bad as a central defender

Slippery Jim said  | August 19th 2008 @ 11:42am | Report comment

dasilva, falling back on the old “long ball” cliche for the Argentina performance is faulty. I watched the game closely and we tried to play the ball out of defense and keep it on the ground. Argentina themselves employed several long balls in that game. Let’s not rewrite history. The first game was shocking, brainless long ball tactics, but the performance against Argentina was totally different.

dasilva said  | August 19th 2008 @ 11:59am | Report comment

Also if Arnold team played well (keep the possession) for all the matches and lost all of them we would see praise from the crew of SBS. I don’t really believe there is a media ambush, just that the criticism matched the performance. They are not going to criticise Arnold no matter what and they have praise him before for a good performance when we lost to Uruguay in a friendly in home soils wher we did a good job keeping the ball even though we lost.

dasilva said  | August 19th 2008 @ 12:12pm | Report comment

Yeah I agree that was the most crucial failures in terms of results was the poor finishing. We might of actually defeated Argentina if the finishing was better (although we wouldn’t have deserved it though). I just don’t believe that our defence was that great either.

Vicentin said  | August 19th 2008 @ 1:09pm | Report comment

I agree with Bear - we created close to nothing. To talk about finishing is missing the point. The team played so much better when Musialik, Bridge, and Celeski were on the pitch and passing the ball around. There actually were some positive performances out there - just not enough, and that was largely due to the team selections and tactics. We do have some players who can “play a bit” but unfortunately the conservative and defensive mindsets of most of our coaches don’t allow them or our teams to play to their potential. They were never going to win a medal here - and I didn’t have a problem with that but the style (lack of) and mentality with which they played was really disappointing.

ps really enjoyed watching the Brazilian Womens’ team last night against Germany - can we get some of these girls - Marta, Christiane, to play in the A-League?

Slippery Jim said  | August 19th 2008 @ 1:21pm | Report comment

The fact that the each of the three matches was an incremental improvement in terms of performance from the last is actually indicative of good coaching rather than bad. If our performances had got worse, it would be grounds for saying Arnie was a bad coach, however he obviously spotted problems and took effective measures to change things in subsequent games, either through personnel, tactics or approach.

Jamie said  | August 19th 2008 @ 1:45pm | Report comment

An incremental performance improvement in each of the three matches is not necessarily indicative of “good coaching”… Did the Olyroos not play a whole host of warm-up matches (not to mention all those qualifiers)? Surely you use those warm-up matches to fine-tune your tactics, including selections and strategy, not the actual tournament itself. And I would have thought “good coaches” would have changed things once the problem is spotted, not wait until the next match…

The Bear said  | August 19th 2008 @ 1:54pm | Report comment

Slippery Jim, perhaps you are “one” of those that Bonita Mersiades was referring to in this opinion piece. However, as the overwhelmingly majority of responses to this blog spot shows, the FFA has grossly overstated those that believe the FFA has wise counsel in keeping Arnold as an integral part of our National Team coaching structure.

But where is Arnold, why is he now so busy (he would have surely thought himself still to be at the Olympics, still, in ideal circumstances). Surely even you yourself would want to hear his thoughts and opinions on the wash up from these Olympics? To perhaps vindicate himself, make himself understood and appreciated?

Graciously,
The Bear

Towser said  | August 19th 2008 @ 2:39pm | Report comment

“In common parlance, a devil’s advocate is someone who takes a position, sometimes one he or she disagrees with, for the sake of argument. This process can be used to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure.”

Slippery Jim

Once I played “Devils advocate”. Then I switched my position to the opposite position of the origonal position I positioned myself against.
This caused me to switch my position to the position of the position I origonally argued against. What is your current position?
Mine after this was very sore.

la la said  | August 19th 2008 @ 2:51pm | Report comment

Arnolds not up to the task and he knows it…….hence his errie silence.

When is FFA going to take Olyroos seriously and invest in a real coach not some half a$$ed hack. He wasn’t good enough for Socceroos so why is he good enough for Olyroos. Just because he seems like a nice bloke doesn’t mean you keep dead wood around. We need a real coach now.

Slippery Jim said  | August 19th 2008 @ 3:19pm | Report comment

Since ‘affiliated with’ loosely translates as ‘associated with’, and I am “associating with” you on your blog, The Bear, you tell me

Graciously,

SJ

The Bear said  | August 19th 2008 @ 3:48pm | Report comment

Slippery Jim, if you can’t follow your own posts, then how can i expect to parlay with you?

Graciously,
The Bear

Pippinu said  | August 19th 2008 @ 4:07pm | Report comment

“You’re clutching at straws if the only positives were that our goalkeeper and centreback performed well under pressure - pressure that was largely placed there by the manager”

Ah, but money can’t buy you that sort of experience - the Socceroos will be better for the fact that they did face that sort of pressure!

I remember in 2000 we went out of our way in getting the best over-age players we could muster - and lost every game - on home soil! For me, that was far more disappointing that what’s just happened in China.

And here’s a question for you - why wasn’t Rob Baan replaced well before the Olympics? That’s the true failing in all this.

Vicentin said  | August 19th 2008 @ 4:22pm | Report comment

And here’s a question for you - why wasn’t Rob Baan replaced well before the Olympics? That’s the true failing in all this.

Pippinu - it’s not a question for me it’s a question for the FFA and they’re still not answering it. Maybe as a final act of mateship they’re going to let Arnie fall on his sword rather than have him suffer the indignity of sacking him. Here’s hoping …and here’s hoping he’s not too thick to get the hint.

2000 was a long time ago in terms of the recent great strides that football has supposedly made in the past three or four years. I’m sure I was disappointed too - but frankly I can’t remember it and I’m sure I had less lofty desires for our national team then.

Vicentin said  | August 19th 2008 @ 4:46pm | Report comment

…..but it clearly shows that they didn’t exactly make the Olympics a priority.

Well, as the Bear writes in his opener …

I even recall the strut and nonchalance of the FFA’s manager in the pre-Olympic press conference. It was a serious medal assault, not a development luxury, so we were told…..You looked us straight in the eyes and said that a medal was the benchmark for success.

Basically they failed on all fronts - they talked the talk (like Arnie), but failed in the delivery (like Arnold) … and now it appears that they’ve conveniently forgotten all this just weeks after the initial comments. I think the FFA looks really amateur (at best) in this affair and downright weasle-like to be honest. They’ve stuffed up - they should fix it.

ps nice chatting with you Pippu - like the old days!

dasilva said  | August 19th 2008 @ 6:16pm | Report comment

It is very obvious why Rob Baan didn’t continue the job. He is a technical director and was responsible for the recent youth development scheme and the introduction of small sided games. I think that is a bit more important and time consuming then olyroos squad. I’m ok with Rob Baan not coaching. I’m not ok of Graham Arnold of taking over.

Its true that they have troubled creating chances and that was the most glaring failure but the fact is with better strikers they could have unfairly won all three of the matches with the few chances they created and then everyone will say how great how arnie is even though he was lucky.

Midfielder said  | August 19th 2008 @ 8:13pm | Report comment

Vicentin

Out of interest of Harry, Bresh, Vinny, Timmy C, Cullina, Wilko, ……… which three would you drop to put Nick in. But what about Carl Valeri, Mile Sterjovski, Richard Garcia, ………then maybe Burns, Bridge, Holland, Zullo ………. we have a number of players Nick is good and has ball skills but I have listed my top six mids and then listed another six mids of good quality.

Koala Bear said  | August 19th 2008 @ 8:25pm | Report comment

Lads,
I believe Rob Baan has resigned and heading back to Holland … 90% sure — I saw a report to that effect on TWG.. some time back..

~~~~~~~
KB

vicentin said  | August 19th 2008 @ 9:35pm | Report comment

Midfielder - fair question, and I’ll show a little bit of fancy footwork (possibly including a rabona) around it. None of the players you mention needs to be excluded completely and Grella and Valeri are DMs and don’t come into it - have to admit I don’t rate Wilko and dismiss him like Holman as an athlete and nothing more. If we want to play a possession-based game higher up the park then I think Carle needs to be on the park for at least a considerable time of the game - not this final 10 minutes under pressure that Arnie and Pim begrudgingly give him.

Nick Carle is only true number 10 in the pack and has the ability to make the others look even better - witness the combination he had going with Kewell against Nigeria. I suspect that Viduka would even score goals in the National team with Nick supplying.

Harry is an attacking midfielder but is not a “creative” or at least not a top shelf one. Cahill is great opportunist who reads the game really well around the box but you want him on the end of the move rather than the beginning of it. Sterjovski is another good player but he’s a peripheral player rather than a fulcrum on which a game can be based, Garcia I’ve not seen enough of but I don’t think he’s in the same class. Burns could be great in a few years - shows great potential, Bridge likewise but I suspect he won’t fulfill his potential, Holland’s ok, Zullo is old school winger in my mind.

Look, I don’t think Carle has to necessarily play every minute of every game but creativity is something that has been lacking (and unappreciated) in the Australian set-up for a long time including in Hiddink’s reign and I’m tired of it. I’ll certainly be watching Riquelme and Messi tonight (kiss of death no doubt) with the keenest of interest. Classic no 10s invariably attract more than their fair share of criticism but for me this is about a lack of imagination on behalf of those who criticise them not the players themselves who are invariably called lazy or selfish by these bores. A player like Riquelme (ok he occasionally has a crap game) will out fight anyone on the park - watch him hold onto the ball for dear life, he do plenty of running too, it just won’t be pointless 50 metres sprints chasing a hoofed ball, but constant 5 and 10 metre movements to make himself available to receive the ball from his team mates and create something new.

KB - that Baan is gone is old news but he apparently will be giving the FFA a report on the Olyroos at Olympics - should be interesting reading.

ps while I’m typing these Nigerians are scoring some extraordinary goals! Ciao.

The Bear said  | August 20th 2008 @ 8:39am | Report comment

If i may interject.

What do folks think of the comments from the FFA, after we left the Group stages?

I quote,

“We did not say that we are champions of the world. All we said was that we would like our teams to win, which is not unreasonable. Why else would we go there?”

It seems quite different in tone from the press conference when they named the squad.

Vicentin said  | August 20th 2008 @ 9:41am | Report comment

Midfielder - can’t think of many players who have ALL the attributes. It is a team game and therefore (much like a chess set with pieces that have different moves) you choose players who complement each other. You’re not going to find a team full of “Queens” so to speak, and it isn’t going to work anyway as even they can’t do the hook move that the horses can ;0)

We’ve got plenty of players who can run but few who have the football wits about them. That said, I’ve never thought of Carle as a lazy player or one who doesn’t track back - that’s just Arnie spin which unfortunately has been bought by people who really ought to know better. By the way Riquelme is about a right-foot dependant as Carle is left. They aren’t in the same class but the DNA is there and I think he’s the kind of player Australia should be showcasing and developing rather than hiding away. Did he get a run this morning? Argentina, particularly Riquelme and Messi (and Gago) were superb last night.

Bear - it is jus another example of the inconsistency and hypocrisy that the FFA has shown in this matter. Weasel words. Thanks for your blog.

The Bear said  | August 20th 2008 @ 11:02am | Report comment

Towser, then why the press conference charade? Is it too much to ask for honesty? I agree that the FFA are moving in some great directions. The appointment of Baan, SSG, Womens and Youth Leagues. All fantastic.

But the amount of polly-waffle and “code” talk from the FFA pre and post Olympics is astounding. How can fans and supporters believe what they hear? Why should we even bother to listen?

It’s non inclusive, and diminshes the engagement of the populace, with the side effect of alienating a fan base (and in turn the *financial* bottom line for the organisation). When the FFA treat their Supporters as merely spectators, and not fans, the means destroy the ends.

Vicentin, you stay true to your “balanced” view, if people like Robbie Slater (and GA most likely) had his way, then even if Riquelme was an Aussie, the midfielder would not even make the bench.

And Pip, your speculation is …well speculation. And try not to forget too quickly… otherwise we shall be having this dialogue sooner than you may think (again). Besides, surely we have enough dexterity to kick more than one football issue around at a time.

Personally, I am now hoping the Baan report (from these Olympics) reveals a warts and all perspective (about time for GA?) and that the FFA act on it. And perhaps, give us Aussies some clear communication, for a change.

Graciously,
The Bear

Koala Bear said  | August 20th 2008 @ 11:48am | Report comment

Slippery Jim, or anyone,
I didn’t see the game, but does anyone know, what the starting line up was..? or where I can find a link..?

~~~~~~~
KB

Towser said  | August 20th 2008 @ 11:59am | Report comment

My guess is Bear,they do know.
The waffle is a cover up,no question.
Bit like politicians.
Doesnt personally bother me or remotely alienate me. I know which side of my bread is buttered on.
The overall direction is what counts.
Ignore the static & listen for the message. If the message doesnt come through,then worry.

Vicentin said  | August 20th 2008 @ 12:06pm | Report comment

Sorry Towser, I meant to acknowledge in my previous post that I was replying to some of your questions/observations. Cheers.

and Bear, you’re probaby right. Arnold wouldn’t have the faintest idea what do do with a guy like Riquelme. Telling to stop kicking a ball and send him to the gym most likely.

Slippery Jim said  | August 20th 2008 @ 12:27pm | Report comment

KB, here you go lad: (also posted on the Flog)

Qantas Socceroos line-up: 1.Mark SCHWARZER (gk), 2.Lucas NEILL (c)( 4.Mark MILLIGAN 46’), 3.Scott CHIPPERFIELD (11.David CARNEY 46’), 5.Jason CULINA, 7.Scott McDONALD (10.Brett HOLMAN 46’), 8.Luke WILKSHIRE, 9.Joshua KENNEDY (12.Bruce DJITE 73’), 13.Vincenzo GRELLA (14.Carl VALERI 62’), 16.Chris COYNE, 21.Mile STERJOVSKI (20.Richard GARCIA 62’), 23.Mark BRESCIANO.

Substitutes Not Used: 6.Matthew SPIRANOVIC, 18.Michael PETKOVIC (gk), 19.Nick CARLE.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/InsideFFA/default.aspx?s=insideffa_newsfeatures_newsitem&id=23274

Pippinu said  | August 20th 2008 @ 12:36pm | Report comment

Skull
Is your middle name Slippery Jim?

Sorry, that’s a bit of an in-joke.

In all honesty, NC hasn’t really done too much in either the Championship (SJ’s favourite topic) or with the NT, although I believe he played a good game against Ghana (?) when Rob Baan was in charge.

Vicentin has already described himself as a “romantic”, and we all have a touch of that if we were to be honest and introspective, e.g. to a man we all would have much preferred that France had got past Germany in the 1982 WC semi final, or that Turkey had faced Germany rather than Brazil in the 2002 semi finals.

So NC represents a collective experiment played out in some sectors of the public imagination (amongst knowledgable sectors may I add) - that’s no disrespect to those who are willing more NC time (I would like to see him have more game time as well) - but this fascination with NC can best be described as being more about the possible rather than the probable, and as we know, the possible has few limits.

But this is the big but - Pim has shown himself to be very pragmatic and even safe - we all should have seen it coming from South Korea nailing 3rd spot in the Asian Championships after three consecutive nil-all draws.

The truth is, Pim will probably get us to South Africa in 2010 (and most, including the FFA will be satisfied with that), he may even get us past the first round - but that’s as far as the dreaming goes. Many will no doubt feel disenchanted about the manner in which we get there, marked down for artistic points so to speak.

I sit on the fence in this respect. I too get joy from a deft Pirlo touch, but equally, I admire the hard running of Zambrotta and Grosso and acknowledge the effectiveness of Matterazzi’s physical presence and bastardry. Who is right? Who is wrong? Just sit back and try and get a glimpse of both the larger tapestry, and the individual knots.

Towser said  | August 20th 2008 @ 12:52pm | Report comment

Larger tapestry,individual knots.
Please continue Pippinu to speak of fields of flowing daffodils & sweet smelling roses.
On the individual knots.
Sometimes when I look at them from a football perspective I end up tying myself in them.

Slippery Jim said  | August 20th 2008 @ 1:00pm | Report comment

Pippu, good post, I agree with all you say except to add that my favourite topic is actually how ridiculously ridiculously great a player Frank Lampard is.

Vicentin, I’m a big fan of Scotty McD, but not yet of Holman, still waiting to be convinced about him…

Vicentin said  | August 20th 2008 @ 1:05pm | Report comment

Towser, coaches at fault? Yes, partially. And yes I too coach - in a low key way at a local club and my formal qualifications are minimal - I do however read read widely about the game and have played in an on-and-off manner for longer than my knees wish to be reminded of.

Now I acknowledge the work that Rob Baan was brought in to do and I’m really pleased that SSGs are getting a stronghold in the junior age groups - well they are in my area anyway, but more needs to be done and quicker I think. Greater emphasis needs to be placed on developing the skill levels and decision making/problem solving abilities of young players which I believe is easier done without formal competition.

I despair that my son (at 10) had to play on a full field this year but at least the team was coached to value skill, possession, calmness and creativity. We concentrated on skills and SSGs at training and they were encouraged to play lots of futsal etc. They won all their games by the way but that in itself was never the objective and it was NOT because we had way better cattle than other teams - we just played better and our kids developed more than their rivals. The style of play of some of our rivals was just shocking but there were some great players in those teams - but they are being let down. More resources need to go into junior football to upskill the coaches - whether some of them like it or not!

That said there are some decent players around but as I’ve stated earlier I don’t know if they are the ones getting the proper attention or if it is the ones with the best beep test scores …or the one who have the most “guts”, or the tallest etc. Anyone notice how many shortarses there are in that Argentina team, and Buonanotte who’s mainly on the bench is the size of 12 year old!

I do realise that it can’t all happen overnight but I guess coming back to the point of this blog - my faith in the FFA is undermined by some of these big decisions and the way they are handled. That Lowy also allowed Kosmina to get the Sydney gig just undermines my confidence even more. No I can’t can’t get over that one no matter how hard I try.

Pippinu re your tapestry - why isn’t there room for the Carle knot in the Australian one? Why does our tapestry have to be so monochromatic?

Slippery Jim said  | August 20th 2008 @ 1:15pm | Report comment

Just to show that great, expressive artwork can still be Monochromatic:

http://www.guggenheimcollection.org/site/date_work_lg_133A_1.html

Vicentin said  | August 20th 2008 @ 1:21pm | Report comment

SJ - smartypants.

Pippinu said  | August 20th 2008 @ 1:25pm | Report comment

Vicentin
I’m not arguing in favour of leaving Carle out - I would much, much prefer to see him get a run ahead of Holman - any day of the week!

But I think you would agree that the pattern has been set, and it’s not just Pim - most modern-day coaches across a lot of different football cultures, do not have as a high priority that sort of player (I’ll try and desist from falling into cliches, but I know you know where I am heading with this).

Interestingly, the one footballing country that hasn’t fallen into line is Argentina. They’re probably about to win their 2nd consecutive Olympic gold medal, but on the flip side, they haven’t done too much on the world stage for a very long time.

Personally, I like the fact that there are differing football philosophies, and that none are guaranteed of prevailing on any given day.

Back to NC, he deserves more of a chance, but he definitely is a bit off becoming a permanent fixture in the NT. It would take a very brave manager to take such a leap of faith and go counter to current day trends in World football, especially for a fairly conservative manager (which it looks like is what we have).

Towser said  | August 20th 2008 @ 1:50pm | Report comment

Vicentin

What your telling me is deja vu for me.
There is obviously a generational difference between us,but when I coached the same problems you present in Aussie junior football existed 20 odd years ago.
Believe me you are way ahead of my coaching days. I would given anything for SSG’s. I often thought of telling the parents, local associations to piss off & arrange to take my team & players from another local team down to a local street for a kickaround. Allowing the kids to problem solve & make decisions independently of an adult. This of course was somewhat romantic trying to capture the spontaneous football of my upbringing in industrial England & transfer it to a suburban Australian landscape. It wasn’t possible of course hence you dont realise what a godsend SSG’s are.
I presume thaey are played in the same spontaneous manner I did as a lad.ie my first organised game was for the school at 13.
Club football started generally around the 15 year age group & at 15 I played football for the school in the morning,cycled 4 miles at times to turn up for a club match in the afternoon & 4 miles home.
Just re Kosmina even if he was Argentinian he doesnt have the player you seek surely. Whilst at junior level yes you can point the finger at coaches re technique mental approach to holding the ball etc once an adult the mould is set.
Sure you can teach them tactics so Kosmina fits the bill as much as anybody else with the type of players he has at his disposal.
We are bringing in overseas players. We are getting better at recruiting. Some of these players will be the sort of player you relate to. Surely Song at Newcastle is one. Charlie Miller is another. Amaral also. This is another avenue that influences youngsters, what senior players do.How they play. They copy it in training. Up till now for juniors theres been no visible senior league on their doorstep for them to emulate its players.
Most of my coaching involved trying to comprehend why kids playing football were talking about Rugby League players & when they talked about football it was some obscure figure a name only(to them) on the other side of the world. You couldn;t hop down to your local stadium & see your football heroes like I could as a youth. (we wont go into the NSL & why they didnt go to these matches here). Do not overlook the influence of the adulation of kids towards accessible local professional footballers in shaping how they play the game. Coaching is a major element but not the only one.
So in my book the A-League is not only a platform for lifelong fans like me to get my fix it is also a visual learning academy for upcoming stars.

The Bear said  | August 20th 2008 @ 2:02pm | Report comment

Towser, well said. Perhaps the generational change will ocur now with Coaches, too - people growing up watching how effectual (or ineffectual, as the case may be) Managers can be (infact, with Van Egmond and Vidmar making such a great impact with their respective club performances, one could say that the tapestry is getting richer by the day in the coaches stakes). Now it’s up to the administrators to do their bit, and set a good example, for all our National Teams.

Graciously,
The Bear

Towser said  | August 20th 2008 @ 2:24pm | Report comment

KB

Interesting you wrote about the Nigerian goals just after I mentioned to Vicentin about the A-league being a visual learning academy for our young players.
Somewhere on another Roar blog we were talking about the A-League where it was at(Midfielder piece I think).
I said that the A-League would develop in terms of attendance as the level of professionalism & standard improved. In other words what you see is what you get. I also stated that any long term football fan with an inkling of football knowledge will recognise the improvements in this respect. The Nigerian goals are a classical example of what were looking for. We know its there, we saw it last night but how many times do you see it in the A-league. This is the type of football that brings you back. You see it once from your team you want to see it again.
I still remember these sort of goals from 45 years ago. Johnny Fantham,FA cup tie at Nottingham forests ground. Traps the ball around the halfway line on his instep, strides forward pumps one in past the Forest goalkeeper as per the Nigerians.
Call it nostalgia call it what you like. Its still there embedded in my brain as a memorable moment in the Owls footballing history.
Have I seen it for the Roar yet.
Not quite Zullo did a mini version in his first match. Its still there a cracker all the same. What other goals do I remember for the Roar. Yes(sorryKB) Reinaldos uncharichteristic run down the wing & cut back inside to score in the final against Sydney last year.
Perhaps KB the A-League could employ us as Nigerian scouts.

Towser said  | August 20th 2008 @ 2:37pm | Report comment

Bear

Our coaches will learn naturally anyway by participating in the Asian Champions League & being exposed to different coaches & styles. Thats the beauty of Asia we have to learn.

Pippinu said  | August 20th 2008 @ 2:43pm | Report comment

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a footballing thread descend into an argument on the merits or otherwise of an example of the decorative arts.

When it comes to Art - I don’t know what I like - but I sure do like that of which I know little.

Slippery Jim said  | August 20th 2008 @ 3:00pm | Report comment

The Bear; sorry, as much as I would like to lay dibs on the pyscho babble re Reinhardt’s work was compliments of Nancy Spector.

I blame Pippu for taking us down a more philosophical route with his rug comment…

Slippery Jim said  | August 20th 2008 @ 3:20pm | Report comment

“diversity is something to be embraced, and not feared”

http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/08/19/ffa-serves-%e2%80%9cthe-good-china%e2%80%9d-httpwwwfanboycomimagesbride-nappingjpg/#comment-64775 (90th comment down, fourth paragraph, second and third line)

Yes indeed, but doesn’t that encompass just about every type of football there is, including that played recently by the Olyroos? If you exclude them from that which you claim to embrace, it seems somewhat hypocritical.

By the way, I had already posted the link and put the quote in quotation marks, what more do you want? Yet your article, which features several key quotations as an intrinsic part of your argument has no links to these…

Interestingly, early Monochromatic paintings such as that pioneered by Kasimir Malevich’s “Black Square” were termed ‘anti art’, whereas many claim the artist formerly known as Arnold produces “anti football’.

The Bear said  | August 20th 2008 @ 3:29pm | Report comment

Slippery, suffice to say i am a Visual Artist, and i am VERY familiar with the pieces and movements of which you speak. It is apparent that you wish to find something in the Art world that supports your avid fixation that colourful players have a muted role in football. I could spend a while and address your attempts to grapple with me, but i really could not be arsed. Maybe tomorrow, i may feel differently, but it is getting late in the afternoon, and duties call.

And i am not chastizing the lack of http reference, you will noticed i mentioned that it was Bonita Mersiades from the PA office of the FFA, the least you could do was let us know it was Nancy’s words, not your own. You should know that The Roar have specific editorial constraints, if you have ever indeed posted an opinion piece, here, before.

Pippinu said  | August 20th 2008 @ 3:56pm | Report comment

Tapestry is to rug as Carle is to Holman.

That’s actually a lot cleverer than I first thought - sometimes I truly surprise myself - we could make a thesis out of this!

I’ll await your responses before I chime in with mine.

Koala Bear said  | August 20th 2008 @ 5:14pm | Report comment

Towser,
I think the A-league is on the right track and will continue to improve technically and tactically.. However, we have always struggled to produce strikers who can smack a ball with such ferocity .. I have seen a lot of Australian football over 45yrs or more, and I can only name a handful that could hit a ball as hard as those Nigerians did last night.. Ray Bartz (midfielder) Charlie Yankos (Central Defender) even Kossie (Striker) .. However, I’m not saying I haven’t seen some clever goals in Australian Football, but, for sheer ferocity on a consistent basis no; we need to focus and improve our over all strikes on target like we saw last night.. The Viduks and Kewells have it on occasions; but they had to go to Europe to find the nack.. I do believe we lack the ferocity and power in our shooting in Australia. Maybe the air is thicker down under but when you see the goals in European competitions they do seem to travel a lot quicker and faster thru the air on a straight line.. I don’t know the answer, but do we need to strengthen up the thighs or more shooting practice for the lads; I think we better find out .. But all in all what has been happening on the local seen is not bad in my opinion.. A damn lot better then in the days of “Soccer Australia”..

~~~~~~~
KB

Slippery Jim said  | August 20th 2008 @ 6:31pm | Report comment

Errr…Arnold is not the national team coach, Pim is, so seems rather unnecessary to sack him as such, cpaaa.

Cpaaa said  | August 20th 2008 @ 6:45pm | Report comment

….so until such a time comes we will continue writing,reading and replying to articles related to graham arnold.
so slippery jim your right the site should read olyroos coach or national assistant coach, but the problem remains the same.

dasilva said  | August 20th 2008 @ 7:29pm | Report comment

OK replacement for Graham Arnold as assistant coach for Australia and the coach of olyroos for London 2012

Gary Van Egmond

This will please the people on SBS like Craig Foster because he plays possession football . It will also please people like Cockerill at FOxsports as he is Australian

Win win situation to me.

Slippery Jim said  | August 20th 2008 @ 7:37pm | Report comment

You’ve won me over too, now all we need is the website…how about it cpaaa?

The Bear said  | August 20th 2008 @ 8:18pm | Report comment

Thought i’d pop my head in sometime tonight, and what do i see, Slippery Jim offering something positive, more than a Devil’s Advocate in your kit bag, eh?

I’d throw my support for the Egg. Especially if it means not having to write an essay of Russian Art in the Modern Era for Jim, though i definitely have a soft spot for kooky Minimalist Art.

Don’t get me started on Dadaism, tho, you won’t hear the end of it.

Slippery Jim, i have finally resolved our impasse. I do not live in a black and white world, though I think you believe otherwise. I push for playmakers, cos we have an abundance of players who could be called workhorses in the squad incl. Wilkshire, Beauchamp and Holman. If caution mandates that Pim leave playmakers like Carle on the bench, then he will live or die with those decisions. If we continue to fail to create opportunites, let alone finish them, then he will criticised for that. I am only pushing for a balanced squad.

I appreciate both edges of the blade, to be honest. Finesse and fitness. In Football, the marriage of the two is ideal, in any one player, but we must accept that is rarely the case in reality. So in Art I can appreciate an IKBlue canvas, and call that Art, as much as a French Impressionist canvas of Water Lillies, or a Dutch styled photo-realist Potrait. Also i like rugs, and tapestries…but that’s not Art, that’s Craft (sorry, could not help to throw that jibe in).

Anyway, the main point is, for me, Football can be Artistic, sure. But it is not Art, in itself. It is Sport, “at the end of the day”. So any metaphor you care to use to address aspects of the Artistry of Sport will ultimately fail. Conversely, it goes the same for saying there is Sport in Art, and some Artists may feel competitive (Picasso, …?maybe) and goal driven, but it would be the exception. Art is transcendent of competition, that’s why it works so well, as “ART”

BTW, Anti-Football would be to score goals, in your own net. I don’t even think Arnold would go that far to prove he has his own “vision” of a unique style of Football. He may prove to be a decent coach one day, but he hasn’t got the goods, especially at International level, yet.

And why should he? It took Guus alot of time and experiences to be Guus.

Let’s shake hands and move on, yeah ; )

Graciously,
The Bear

Midfielder said  | August 20th 2008 @ 9:31pm | Report comment

Bear

Welcome to the Roar love the psots love the passion.

Also and for the record as was heard at Spirit Point after about 12 rounds …….. ARNOLD OUT

dasilva said  | August 20th 2008 @ 11:44pm | Report comment

Cpaaa, just be patient. Arnold will be sack at least from the under 23 side within a fortnight or so and there is signs that he may even resign as assistant coach of soccerroos. Look at Pim picking bruce Djite to the soccerroos squad and Arnold not even attending the match even though the olympics is over. Its quite suspicious that the assistant coach did not attend Australia vs South Africa. while he is holidaying in Beijing.

Mark my word, he will be gone by the end of this month at the most.

jimbo said  | August 21st 2008 @ 12:00am | Report comment

After the game today, SA coach Santana said “South Africa are similar to Brazil in the way they play - my players treat the ball with love and care,”

“That’s why we play football. I would never want to play the way Australia play - my players don’t have those characteristics.”

Being Dutch isn’t everything and I can’t say I disagree especially after the second half performance.
We are a bit underdone and will get done by the Uzbeks in a couple of weeks, if we keep playing for a defensive draw.

BTW there are 13 football programs (about 20 hours of football) on Fox Sports tomorrow.