Foley looks abroad to fill Waratahs void
By David Beniuk, 22 Aug 2008 David Beniuk is a Roar Pro
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New Waratahs set-piece coach Michael Foley says NSW may need to look overseas to fill the void left by departing forwards Dan Vickerman, Rocky Elsom and David Lyons.
The current Wallabies assistant will link with NSW in January to work under new head coach Chris Hickey.
And Foley believes the Waratahs may need to make use of a new rule which will allow Australia’s Super 14 sides to sign foreign players.
“Losing Vickerman, Elsom and Lyons is a really, really big hole in that Waratah forward pack, let alone the Waratah team,” Foley told reporters at the Wallabies’ Cape Town base today.
“That’s something that really we need to focus on and it’s an opportunity for other guys to step up, so that’s a challenge.
“The Waratahs do need to replace those guys and there’s a fine line there, you’ll have some good young talent and it’s whether or not they’re ready.
“The relaxation of being able to look at some other players (overseas) certainly gives you that option of bringing in maybe some seniority which ushers through the junior guys.”
Foley joins the Waratahs after a tumultuous 2008 during which the team made the Super 14 final despite the early announcement that coach Ewen McKenzie’s five-year reign would end.
A period of uncertainty followed as Hickey was lined up as McKenzie’s replacement.
But Foley said the ups and downs would have built character among the players.
“What I saw from slightly arm’s length – but I did spend a bit of time with the Tahs this year – was a pretty good values system if you like within the team,” he said.
“They really did cling together in very difficult times.”
He said that environment would help him with bringing young forwards through to replace Europe-bound Vickerman, Elsom and Lyons.
“There’s no substituing that experience but at the same time I think what you will have is younger guys stepping into a group that has a history of the right sort of mentality going into seasons and that’s going to be helpful,” Foley said.
Foley, who said he had initially discussed the job with McKenzie, said time with his family of four children was the prime motivator for taking the job, which will involve a move from Brisbane to the Central Coast.
In the meantime, he still has unfinished business with the Wallabies.
“I don’t think you ever leave a job feeling like it’s all done. You’re always looking at what’s next and how to improve,” he said.
“I was offered the job initially for two years to the World Cup and I said, ‘look, what I’m seeing it’s going to take three years for discernible change’.
“On finishing the job my attitude is from now to the end of the year there’s still a lot of improvement to be sought and gained but you walk away saying what I’ve promised I’ve hopefully delivered.”
Wallabies head coach Robbie Deans said this week that Foley could have an ongoing role with the national side up until the expiry of his contract next March, something the former Australian hooker did not rule out.
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Big Kev said | August 22nd 2008 @ 9:14pm | Report comment
Apparently AJ Venter is looking to come to Aus – how about him Foles?
Chris Ash, syd - Aust said | August 22nd 2008 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
not a bad pick Big Kev. Defiantly need some height and agression into the forward pack.
Peter K said | August 22nd 2008 @ 10:31pm | Report comment
AJ Venter is too small. We have lost Vickerman and Elsom, we need a 196cm+ guy. Venter is too old as well.
I’d like one of the U21 locks that won the U21′s world cup for them. That way we can get him qualified for the Wallabies like Rathbone did.
gavin said | August 22nd 2008 @ 10:37pm | Report comment
it’s a bloody tragedy when it comes to this. Surely we can find out own talent somewhere
matta said | August 22nd 2008 @ 10:40pm | Report comment
its a strange one… Vicks is going for ‘a change of life’. Rocky is going cos he wants to do ‘the typical aussie 20 something’ in Europe thing (only he a pro footballer not an accountant) and Lyons is going due to lack of game time (lets be honest).
The Tahs really do strugle to keep players sometimes.
matta said | August 22nd 2008 @ 10:42pm | Report comment
oh and the first thing I would be doing is converting that big winger (Lote’s relative) to a back rower…sure at top level he might score the odd massive try but he would be of better service in close.
Peter K said | August 22nd 2008 @ 10:45pm | Report comment
A bit hard to blame the Tahs.
Elsom was first offered a reduced contract by the ARU. They finally buckled and matched what he currently was on. By that time Rocky had a better offer. He was still willing to take the ARU offer but only wanted to sign for 2 years, ARU demanded 3 years to take him through the WC. Elsom refused.
Vickerman went to do an Economics degree at Oxford. If ARU would of raised his money he would of stayed but they didn’t.
ARU pays backs too much compared to forwards especially wingers.
Peter K said | August 22nd 2008 @ 10:48pm | Report comment
matta I would have a 40 metre race betwen Lote and his cousin. Whoever loses moves into the forwards at no 6.
westy said | August 23rd 2008 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
What saddens me as it should every rugby supporter is that we are not talking about who is next in line in our premier domestic club rugby to replace Vickerman/Elsom/ and Lyons.It does not gladden my heart that the Reds need a 29 year old McClintock from league.
I am not against the importing of marquee playera designed to lift the game’s profile or shore up a position. Their is a growind or creeping attitude amongst the powers that be that wholescale import of established players is the answer not only to current replacements but to any new team.
This attitude is a sad indictment by our management of what they really think of the quality of our premier club rugby including the better teams.They really deep down have doubts about the ability of such competitions to develop super 14 players. This is not necessarily my sentiment.
Rugby due to a lack of resources and although with some notable exceptions has in the main relied on the generous support of private schools in the development of quality rugby juniors. Not their fault and we still need their support but such assistance is exclusionary in nature and does not now take into account the rise of football in such schools and their changing demographic.Rugby because of limited resources always got by on the cheap in relation to the development of district junior talent.We basically have never done it much.
I have always wondered that if we had not got Beale from U/12 Penrith rugby League and he had not gone to Joeys but played district junior rugby in Penrith whether he would have made it or be playing league.
I lived in Melbourne for a year and my observation was that the ordinary punters down there did not seem to distinguish between Rugby or league it was all the same. Informed opinion down there including that of there then CEO Jackson that rugby was a boutique domestic sport( his words not mine) principally aimed at international participation who may compete at the elite corrporate sponsor level but little else. We were run and supported by nice people( he was well aware of class issues) but who either did not know or have the capacity to run or did not wish to run a vibrant domestic /provincial competition aimed at the ordinary punter. They identify we are quite a useful ally in damaging league but as the ordinary punter in Melbourne notes we are much the same.
Investment in junior and elite premier club rugby can still use the existing strusture. Every other code has or has commenced a programme aimed for 5/10 year results with a committment to continue irrespective of results at the top end ( football)Rugby has never really had a concerted campaign continued over lenghty period to produce juniors
The ARU has good intentions and is quite good at participation just appalling at the next level leaving it to underfunded and sometimes poorly run state bodies. Where I am we basically sponge on league junior infrastructure. Genuine rugby juniors search out a league team to get better conditioning and training.On a recent visits to Brisbane it would seem to me to be worse. Any person who wants league to die up ther will see rugby lose half their playing juniors and that includes the Nudgee boys.
We either openly and at some cost to short term top end results invest in our junior district development and premier club rugby over the next 5/10 years and longer or we simply import as many players as we need and be theat boutique sport AFL thinks we are.
mudskipper said | August 23rd 2008 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
This why we need a tier two path… So developing athlete can see an achievable path to becoming a rugby professional. Otherwise they will just choose another code…hopefully the new foreign player arrangement help the S14 clubs and the future Wallabies…
The Brumbies have sign Ben Hand a local Sydney Rams player for next season. As I undestand Ben had to play OS this year because the ARU withdrew the ARC without any alternative…