By ohtani\'s jacket
August 26th 2008 @ 12:39am
Loading ...The All Blacks vs Samoa, what’s the point?
The All Blacks are set to play a midweek Test against Samoa on September 3rd, a ludicrous fixture to say the least. The reasoning was to give the All Blacks a match between the August 17th Cape Town Test and September 13th Brisbane Test.
And when a fixture against Argentina couldn’t be arranged, Samoa stepped in to fill their boots.
Needless to say, the Northern Hemisphere clubs refused to grant releases for a Wednesday night Test in New Plymouth. And who can blame them?
Samoan coach Niko Palamo has been forced to arrange a “trial” in Auckland this week in order to field a side.
It’s understood that Samoa will consist of players from the Islands, and a few Auckland-based Samoans. Palamo has warned that, “I probably will have just one player from the forward pack that played in the Pacific Nations Cup and the situation isn’t looking much better in the backs.”
Henry, on the other hand, is expected to play his full strength side.
Setting aside the obvious, such as this should be an All Blacks “match” played in Samoa not Taranaki, what more can be gained from the All Blacks playing Samoa instead of playing for their provinces?
The injury risks are the same, if not more considering how hard those Samoan players tackle when they wear the jersey. But the lack of structure and defensive organisation is the real killer.
The All Blacks will look to focus on the set pieces and the breakdown and try to continue their methodical, controlled approach.
But the pressure won’t be there.
The game will open up, New Zealand will score easily, and the backs will have a field day.
Will the All Blacks really plug the corners and challenge the lineout if there’s a midfield paradise on offer?
I will be cheering Samoa. A try is worth a gold medal in these lopsided affairs.
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(39)
Benjamin said | August 26th 2008 @ 7:10am | Report comment
I see your point, BUT…
1. A game is a game. Who else is available?
2. Money for Samoa.
Arturo Chan Mow said | August 26th 2008 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
The NZRFU should have been more serious about this and had in the weekend instead of a mid-week game. Its an insult to Samoa as mid-week games are mainly reserved for local rep games not for an international team. Or maybe it should have been played in Apia. New Zealand are quick at judging before things happen and maybe its a closer match then expected.
ohtani's jacket said | August 26th 2008 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
New Zealand rugby would be better off with All Blacks playing for their provincial sides & Samoa have nothing to gain from a Wednesday night Test in Taranaki. If the NZRU were interested in money, they wouldn’t be playing this Test in New Plymouth. It’s a PR ploy. They’re trying to take the All Blacks out into the heartlands, having open trainings and such. Unfortunately the Test will be an open training too.
Our backs are suddenly going to find space. Space that isn’t there in Tri-Nations Tests. Space that won’t be there a week later. Brisbane is like a World Cup knock out for us. This Samoa Test is like a World Cup pool game. I don’t see how it qualifies as preparation & I think the All Blacks would have a tougher time in Air NZ Cup rugby.
mudskipper said | August 26th 2008 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
I’d like to see the New Zealand Maori play the remaining All Blacks…or a State of origin style match North vs. South island contest, now that would be excellent…
Shahsan said | August 26th 2008 @ 6:40pm | Report comment
Or just the old Possibles versus Probables. What great matches they used to be.
H-RAINE said | August 26th 2008 @ 6:52pm | Report comment
they could have a more intertaning samoa/tonga/figi vs new zealend match now that would be better
True Tah said | August 27th 2008 @ 10:42am | Report comment
OJ,
re: you’re questioning of why the game is not being played in Samoa, I understand that the Islander sides always prefer to play NZ in NZ - they reckon they will get more money that way.
The ABs have never played a test match in the Islands, and given the strong links between NZ and the Islands, I thought this was strange, so I looked into it.
Pretty much all the 6 Nations have played in the Islands, and Australia last played their in the 1980s against Fiji.
The ABs should be playing for their Air NZ Cup sides - does the Air NZ Cup get decent crowds?
ohtani's jacket said | August 27th 2008 @ 10:54am | Report comment
I’m sure they prefer to play in Auckland not Taranaki.
The Air NZ Cup gets poor crowds and basically has no future as a professional competition. Too many of the Unions are running at a loss and the fact you have to pay an All Black despite the fact he doesn’t play for you is ridiculous.
Artruo said | August 27th 2008 @ 11:06am | Report comment
You would get more crowds in Apia then you would in Yarrow Stadium for this type of game. Besides majority of Samoans support the All Blacks not Aussies or SA. But money is everything to the AB, thats probably why they have not won a world cup in 21 years. Promote the game to the true fans of rugby that deserve it.
ohtani's jacket said | August 28th 2008 @ 7:08pm | Report comment
There’s a bit of a new crinkle to this now that Joe Rokocoko is returning to club rugby this weekend.
Depending on how he goes, Henry might be tempted to bring him back for the Samoa Test, though I guess it’s a long shot. There will be obvious doubts over his match fitness and whether he can slot into the kicking game.
ohtani's jacket said | September 1st 2008 @ 8:49pm | Report comment
No McCaw, he’s out with the bruised ribs he picked up in Cape Town. Afoa (shoulder), Sivivatu (ankle) and Thorn (hamstring) are all being rested too.
The All Blacks are going with 3 forwards in the reserves and 4 backs. Thomson is playing openside and Kaino will cover at lock. Lauaki is back on the bench. Apparently he had a big game for Waikato in their win against Auckland.
Benjamin said | September 2nd 2008 @ 3:21am | Report comment
I just cannot cope with Thomson. He’s a penalty machine and he doesn’t even have good hands - which is what a lot of commentators seem to assume due to his 7s history.
Jerry said | September 2nd 2008 @ 7:57am | Report comment
Thompson’s young and a decent prospect. He does tend to concede penalties, but that can change - for instance Rocky Elsom used to be worth 3 or 4 penalties a game in previous years. Thompson does actually have pretty good hands ( but may have let nerves get the better of him in test rugby thus far. He had some great touches for the Highlanders this year, including a spectacular no look reverse pass while getting up off the ground.
Benjamin said | September 2nd 2008 @ 8:07am | Report comment
I understand that Braid isn’t playing because Thomspon will be the bench option but I am convinced that every team should have a substitute number 7 on the bench. To that extent I think Braid should be starting at 7.
Jerry said | September 2nd 2008 @ 8:16am | Report comment
It’s not gonna matter against this Samoan squad who they play at 7.
I’d say Henry etc feel they’re better off developing Thompson as they feel he has more potential to develop and is a part of their future plans, unlike Braid who’s just an emergency backup if McCaw is injured this season. I’d say the plan is probably to develop Thompson into the backup 7 for the November tour & next season.
Benjamin said | September 2nd 2008 @ 6:17pm | Report comment
What was the point in dropping Masoe then?
Jerry said | September 3rd 2008 @ 5:36am | Report comment
Can’t say for certain obviously, but from what I can tell Masoe was simply dropped due to loss of form. He wasn’t great for the Hurricanes in the S14 this year.
Despite the left/right experiment, I don’t really see Thompson as that much different to Masoe in terms of potential - neither really plays the 7 role as a McCaw/Smith type fetcher. Thompson is a bigger lineout threat, I suppose but Masoe has more physicality & confrontation to his game. Given the broad similarities in their play (both offer a good bench option due to versatility) it seems to me that the only reason to dump Masoe is that he simply wasn’t getting the job done. That and perhaps the selectors see a lot of potential in Thompson and 4 years out from 2011 was the right time to blood him.
Benjamin said | September 3rd 2008 @ 7:07am | Report comment
That’s what I was getting at Jerry. He seems like Masoe, but only taller. Much of a muchness really. Perhaps they do see long term potential in Thompson. Henry still seems to be pursuing this dream of a utility back rower bench player. I would have thought the resurgence of genuine 7s under the ELVs would have changed that specific dream of his.
Jerry said | September 3rd 2008 @ 7:37am | Report comment
Masoe’s getting on too, which probably counts against him. He’ll be 32 by the time the 2011 World Cup kicks off and while some players (especially forwards) can contribute well into their 30’s, it’s pretty unlikely than many AB’s will stick around that long without looking for a final payday up north.
Despite where he’s been played this year for the All Blacks Thompson is primarily a 7, though not an out and out fetcher obviously. There’s not really that many genuine fetchers on the horizon as backups. Braid isn’t gonna be round much longer, so it’s really only Tanerau Latimer of the Chiefs who’s a prospect at the moment (Serge Lilo is looking good in the Air NZ Cup for Wellington as a possible future prospect, but I’m not sure about his eligibility). Thompson had a better S14 than Latimer, especially when you consider he was playing in one of the weaker packs.
ohtani's jacket said | September 3rd 2008 @ 10:26pm | Report comment
101-14
I only watched the first 50 minutes but it was pretty much what I expected. No matter how structured they try and play, when you see all that space you just want to go for it. The set pieces were a mess. Nonu had a shocker from what I saw.
Benjamin said | September 3rd 2008 @ 10:56pm | Report comment
Well that’s just great. I thought the game was on Saurday?!
ohtani's jacket said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:01pm | Report comment
We mentioned it was midweek many times!
Benjamin said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:05pm | Report comment
I think the moral there is to pay attention. I can’t think of anything to better kick start a wednesday than a game of international rugby. Gutted.
ohtani's jacket said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:10pm | Report comment
Dunno how international it was really. Samoa scored two tries which was cool. Henry cleared the bench for the second half. Mix of the sublime and the ridiculous, the latter particularly so at scrum time or whenever Nonu was involved.
Benjamin said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:12pm | Report comment
Poor old Samoa.
Sam Taulelei said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:15pm | Report comment
Didn’t watch the game live but recorded it. Scoreline doesn’t surprise me and neither would the amount of loose play from NZ as OJ stated, when you see all that open space it’s too tempting to ignore it. At least there were no injuries sustained and Stephen Donald got a run in the second half but it’s value as preparation for Brisbane is limited at best.
ohtani's jacket said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:25pm | Report comment
Donald running pivot was interesting actually. I assume he’ll be our first five when Carter’s in France.
Thomson looked like he was playing sevens. I’m not sure where he fits into this All Blacks side.
Sam Taulelei said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:31pm | Report comment
You would assume that Donald would have the inside running for flyhalf once Carter leaves for France but I would imagine that the selectors will be keeping an open mind during next season’s Super 14 competition, particularly with the expanded finals and take note of his form and other contenders eg. Stephen Brett.
ohtani's jacket said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:34pm | Report comment
I thought it would be McAlister, but he’s not leaving Sale.
Benjamin said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:36pm | Report comment
McAlister’s contract only runs until the end of this coming season I believe. That’s the earliest he could leave, but he has said he’d consider his position in the new year. His family aren’t in England so you never know. Plus he keeps being shifted to 13.
Sam Taulelei said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:39pm | Report comment
McAlister always appealed to me as a better 2nd five than first five as his natural instincts are to attack and he doesn’t underplay his hand under pressure and look to create opportunities for others but rather try to force the issue himself a la Carlos Spencer. Regardless he’s not available so there’s no point speculating about him until he is.
ohtani's jacket said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:44pm | Report comment
I remember McAlister bailing us out when Carter went down in 2005.
Sam Taulelei said | September 3rd 2008 @ 11:56pm | Report comment
Yes he performed well in the third test against the Lions replacing an injured Carter and I am an admirer of his talent and was disappointed he left NZ. I still feel that he doesn’t have the necessary composure yet to control a game from first five, he’s similar in some respects to Matt Giteau in that they are enormously talented attacking players and can be spectacularly successful as well as error prone. McAlister tends to overplay the chip kick over the top and usually for him to regather rather than the percentage play for a supporting teammate.
ohtani's jacket said | September 4th 2008 @ 12:12am | Report comment
Actually it was MacDonald who played first five when Carter was injured in 2005 (Tri-Nations). I remember McAlister came on in Eden Park and kicked some key penalties. I was never really sold on McAlister full stop, but he was good enough to guide NZ home or cover pivot in the June Tests. I suppose Donald will do the same.
Benjamin said | September 4th 2008 @ 12:14am | Report comment
I think McAlister is far superior to Donald. His physicality, big boot, breaking ability. He could be the premier number 12 in the world if given a consistent run. I can’t see Donald setting the world alight in the absence of Carter.
ohtani's jacket said | September 4th 2008 @ 12:54am | Report comment
Donald’s half against Samoa is the only significant game time he’s had at Test level.
He looked OK from what I saw. I believe he played well for Waikato in their win against Auckland last weekend, so his form is obviously good. He’s quite tall for a first five so comes across as a bit lanky, similar to Larkham when he first set foot on the scene (though Larkham was taller.)
McAlister was too selfish to be a great No.12. Poor distribution skills and a poorer understanding of who was on his shoulder.
Benjamin said | September 4th 2008 @ 12:59am | Report comment
The jury is out on Donald. He’s no Carter or Evans. I think there is a bit of immaturity around McAlister but he has the physique and talent to be a star. He is only 24.
Sam Taulelei said | September 4th 2008 @ 1:05am | Report comment
By the way OJ
It was McAlister that replaced Carter for that third test, Muliaina was fullback and Nick Evans was the reserve cover as MacDonald wasn’t picked in the squad and was only involved in the second test during the series as a reserve.
Sam Taulelei said | September 4th 2008 @ 1:07am | Report comment
Oh sorry OJ I missed reading that you were referring to the Tri Nations and not the Lions series.