A small Swans crowd? Give them a second team
Roar Guru By David Wiseman, 9 Sep 2008 David Wiseman is a Roar Guru
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- AFL, ANZ stadium, Celtic, football, Fremantle, Fremantle Dockers, Port Adelaide, Port Adelaide Power, Rugby League, Socceroos, State Of Origin, Swans, Sydney Swans, western Sydney
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In a slow news week, the ‘non-existent’ crowd for the Swans-Kangaroos final has become a talking point. Typically Greg Baum of The Age is a fine columnist, but him resorting to quoting some nobody and taking his opinion as gospel is a bit rich.
According to this self-acclaimed expert, the Swans fans of yesteryear have moved onto the Socceroos; Sydney people don’t understand why the two recent Grand Finals the Swans played in were not played in Sydney or Perth; and Sydney people have a problem with there being a lack of local Sydney players in the team.
Has the lack of local players hurt the support of the Boston Celtics or Arsenal?
So what they told you with much mirth was that the Swans final drew a paltry 19,127. But what they didn’t tell you was that there were three rugby league matches played in Sydney on the same day, which drew a collective 18,245!
What does all of this mean for the mooted second team in Sydney? Absolutely nothing.
Yes, not withstanding the weather, the Swans should have drawn a better crowd for a final in what was the last match to be played for the year in Sydney. But what chance do the Swans have if the State of Origin fails to draw a crowd?
Before the final State of Origin match this year, there were reports that unless Sydney drew better crowds they would lose games to Brisbane or even Melbourne. The last sellout for an Origin match in Sydney was the second one of 2005.
In 34 regular season matches at ANZ Stadium, the average crowd was 15,034.
In its first year of operation in 1999, it hosted 16 regular season matches and even with the novelty factor only averaged 20,281.
The list of complaints against the venue is well known: sterile atmosphere inside and around the venue, nowhere to park; and overpriced food and drinks.
Another issue which you can’t do anything about is basic supply and demand.
At a smaller venue, the anxiety of missing out on a ticket causes people to buy theirs early so as not to miss out.
At an 85,000 seat stadium there is no rush to buy a ticket as you know there will be plenty left. Come the weekend, the weather is horrible and now you can’t be bothered.
What does all of this mean for the mooted second team in Sydney? Absolutely nothing.
What does matter for them is that they have no history, tradition or culture to draw on.
Port Adelaide bucked the system by inserting an existing team instead of a new one. Compare this to Fremantle who seem to still be experiencing teething problems.
And this is in an AFL town.
The Swans endured a torrid time when they relocated to Sydney. Like an organ transplant which refused to graft, the locals wouldn’t accept someone else’s team while the existing South Melbourne fans didn’t want to accept a team which was no longer theirs.
At least there were 85 years of tradition to draw from!
Things for them won’t be made any easier by a media who can’t wait to stick the boot in when things go pear-shaped. Where expansion happens most often in sports is in the USA. But with the size of the country and the higher amount of teams, there isn’t as much scrutiny.
Plus things feel more regional.
They have their own regional media covering the team, which is likely to be more sympathetic. The same liberties do not exist in Australia.
Take for example the NFL’s Houston Texans, which have been around since 2002.
Since day one they have pretty much been hopeless and to date they have a record of 32-65, which means they win one game for every two they lose.
They are serving America’s fourth largest city, which has a population of over two million. Not withstanding their horrible on-field performances, they have always averaged around 70,000 to home matches.
Are people who currently live in Western Sydney and do not follow any AFL team going to start supporting this new team simply because this new team is more local?
Possibly, but who really knows?
As long as there is no purple in their jumper they should be ok.
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September 9th 2008 @ 9:25pm
sheek said | September 9th 2008 @ 9:25pm | Report comment
Sorry, small Swans ‘crowd’, not ground.
September 9th 2008 @ 9:40pm
Redb said | September 9th 2008 @ 9:40pm | Report comment
Sheer
Today the News Ltd propaganda machine was in full swing, they published an article on junior growth in rugby league in western Sydney, that’s all fine, but instead of comparing AFL junior growth they used the crowd figure from Saturdays final as the stat to compare relative growth prospects
Redb
September 10th 2008 @ 9:40am
oikee said | September 10th 2008 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Redb, why do they pursist with league growth in sydney, its already at its peak and cant get much bigger, so lets say its platoed, ok given this i think that aussie rules will grow in sydney because of the second team, makes sense to all that cant see, now if you were a league supporter you would have to think that the only way to grow would be the other states. So we look at melbourne and aderlaide and perth, as you know its very hard for league to grow quickly, it takes years to grow league in non traditional areas, in melbourne they are growing very slowly through the school system, i see that they have 12 extra teams in the school now, slow but at least there is a alternative to aussie rules. Perth has its own agenda and the management over there is pushing its own boat to get a team in the comp.
Aussie rules growth into queensland is looking bright with the team on the coast. They dont need to worry about queensland as it will sort itself out quickly with rivalry with brisbane. Sydney is the hard one for aussie rules, the place is a logistic nightmare, league should have taught the a.f.l something about that. Gold Coast and Brisbane commuting is like going on holiday for a day, you head off down the highway for a day out.
Queensland could also support another 3 league teams if they wanted to, this is another alternative for league if it started to fall apart, Brisbane is quite capable of having 3 teams, they could operate tommorow if they were allowed to enter the comp. 9 teams for sydney is there biggest worry, like melbourne with aussie rules, its hard to get rid of any teams or relocate them, history is a hard thing to get rid off, look at the sydney bears, people are still moaning about that. League would love to be in every state but at the moment it cant move anywhere because sydney is strangling the game.
Having said this you can see the good position that aussie rules are in, once they have these teams in the other states then it will be easier for them to look in their own backyard to fix up this area, there real weakness is there heartland, both codes.
September 10th 2008 @ 9:46am
True Tah said | September 10th 2008 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Oikee,
the Broncoes would be a major barrier to Brisbane having an extra 3 sides in NRL, they are content to have the city to themselves.
The logical place would be the Sunshine Coast, it has a separate identity to Brisbane, and RL is pretty strong there.
Re: Melbourne, I think the NRL is a bit disappointed with the lack of progress made by the Storm, they have won the comp twice, and been a great side, but the average punter in Vic knows little or cares little for them…if Australia ever got awarded an extra super rugby side and it was in Melbourne, then the NRL would be really concerned.
September 10th 2008 @ 9:56am
oikee said | September 10th 2008 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Just one last look at the health of queensland sport for all codes, teams playing out of brisbane and coast is a must for any code, its a sure thing that they will succeed because of rivalry between these 2 cities, and also up north because this is another part of queensland with loads of pride for there own team, the cowboys are testamony for this argument, so a football team will do well up there also, a aussie rule team could also survive quite well up there if they wanted 2. This all stems back to rivalry with-in state built up by the climax of origin. By this i mean when any team falls short the other parts of the state will get behind the other queensland teams because of our origin mentality. If you can understand this then you know what i mean. So 3 teams of any code in queensland will all do well, but of course rugby league will always be the main code, like aussie rules in melbourne, its in every queenslanders blood.
September 10th 2008 @ 10:05am
oikee said | September 10th 2008 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Right true tah, i did not mean brisbane city, i was really talking about ipswich city and logan city, which are cities in there own right but are outside of brisbane, and as you said sunshine coast wants a team, as for melbourne i dont think a rugby team would affect them, have you seen there supporters, ? they all wear storm jerseys and are the most passionate in the league, why wouldn’t they be with the likes of ingliss , slater, and smiths and cronk. Great team. Union could easily have a team in melbourne, have you seen the amount of kiwis living there, why they have not done this is beyond me.?
September 10th 2008 @ 10:14am
True Tah said | September 10th 2008 @ 10:14am | Report comment
oikee,
Union management is not as proactive as AFL or NRL, so that might explain the lack of a team in Melbourne, and there are a lot of legacies associated with 1995 which have limited Australian teams…however I believe the decision to award WA a team was the correct one.
Hopefully we will see a new Australian side enter super rugby and maybe it will be in Melbourne, although I think a Western Sydney franchise has a lot of things going for it as well.
September 10th 2008 @ 10:30am
oikee said | September 10th 2008 @ 10:30am | Report comment
I have said this before, and i stand by it, Union are in a better position than league because of the one team one city they have, over time they will be in a very good position because of this, if you look at the broncos as you said and i have said, one team for one city makes healthy growth. The queensland reds need to be patient, there time will come. And they have suncorp to play out of, the atmosphere will improve with bigger crowds.
What they need to do is have some tests between england , wales , scotland or ireland to get the people of brisbane in the mood, Why do i look forward to the league world cup? because its been such a long time since we have seen a good test between the other countries, its a novelty like going to the union world cup game at suncorp between england and wales, this was a good game. Why they dont have more of these tests are a mystery to me, to tell the truth i am a little all-blacked and wallabied out at the moment, seems like every year same old, same old. Lets not bore the masses.
September 10th 2008 @ 10:44am
oikee said | September 10th 2008 @ 10:44am | Report comment
I am not picking on Union, i say the same for football, all these friendlies they have is just wasting people’s time, as if we dont get enough football with all this qualifying that goes on just to get into the world cup. Could you imagine ever league or union having a freindly? Its a joke and peole dont see the funny side. Get england or wales over here and have a test match at suncorp and you would fill the stadium every time, either code, league or union.
September 10th 2008 @ 10:53am
Towser said | September 10th 2008 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Oikee
If you are bored with the same old same old in International sport at Suncorp I expect to see you at the World Cup qualifier against Qatar in October. Did you attend the game against Iraq in June?
Football now were in Asia brings a whole new dimension to International sport & Brisbane with a top class venue in Suncorp will continue to get its fair share of matches involving the Socceroos.