By wallythefly
September 22nd 2008 @ 8:08am
Loading ...Super Rugby: don’t forget Adelaide!
WHAT? Adelaide? Hold up a bit, but this is my proposal IF Melbourne are awarded the fifth Super rugby team in the future (save whether they should be for another debate).
I propose that instead of calling them the Melbourne Rebels (just for arguments sake lets use the ARC name) or the Victorian Rebels let’s call them the Southern Rebels. And while the team should be based in Melbourne and play primarily in Melbourne, why not have at least one or possibly two games a season in Adelaide?
While AFL-mad Adelaide with its small population may not be able to sustain a Super rugby team on its lonesome surely plenty would flock if they had one or two Super rugby games a year. (It wouldn’t hurt if they picked weekends when the Crows and Port weren’t playing at home either).
The Adelaide Sevens from all reports was a resounding success and in a few years hopefully Adelaidians will be ready and raring to go and see a couple of games of rah-rah.
It would also mean South Australians (even in a small number at first) would have a team they could follow/support during the Super 14/15 series.
Hey, they could even do a Hawthorn and play a game down in Tassie to extend the ‘Southern States’ notion.
If TV audience and therefore revenue is so important to the financial success to the sport then surely creating a team that represents two (or even three) extra Australian states can only help rugby union when the next TV deal comes into effect.
While it might take a while to get into motion what a great position rugby would find itself in down the track with teams representing most of the country (albeit to differing extents).
Thoughts?
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Andrew B said | September 22nd 2008 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Nice idea, especially as I live in Adelaide and would sign up in a heartbeat. Biggest problem with combining Melbourne and Adelaide is the people hate each other.
True Tah said | September 22nd 2008 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Wallythefly,
no chance, the scene in Adelaide club rugby is piss-weak, and any support left over from the Power and the Crows is swallowed by the Adelaide futbol club.
IF a Melbourne side does get up, then it may be worthwhile having a game in Adelaide, but my gut instinct says no.
mudskipper said | September 22nd 2008 @ 10:01am | Report comment
If a Melbourne S14 Club gets up they’ll be doing everything they can to grow the Victorian franchise. I can’t see them giving away matches to grow another market.
Melbourne would be a successful franchise while most players will be imported from the northern states there are many NZers and ex-pats in Melbourne that would flock back to live rugby. The new Melbourne rectangular stadium is important to ensure their supporters can fully enjoy the rugby experience…
I think there will only be a 5th Australian S14 team if the broadcasters agree to sign an extended season with one game against international teams and home and away against the national conference teams. But why wouldn’t they agree to that product?
Throw in a Melbourne S14 franchise and add a whole other state…2010 bring it on…
Westy won’t be happy I can’t see Western Sydney getting the 5th franchise…sorry Westy
mtngry said | September 22nd 2008 @ 10:17am | Report comment
I think we should hear more about the ARS. But I do not see why one game season, or pre-season in Adelaide would hurt.
sheek said | September 22nd 2008 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Wallythefly,
While Melbourne/Victoria might be willing to play a couple of games in Adelaide (& why not the other Aussie S14 franchises?) you can forget about a merger.
Nevertheless, I support the argument of your broad theme. I too dream mof the day when Adelaide/SA might have their own team in a national domestic comp.
As a rugby fan, I’m not looking to overtake AFL in Victoria & SA. But if rugby can find its niche support, then that’s basically what we want.
True Tah said | September 22nd 2008 @ 10:45am | Report comment
sheek,
the only Aussie franchise which has played a comp game away from their home ground are the Reds, who have played games in Townsville and maybe the Gold Coast.
Force I can understand, as the majority of the population of WA is in Perth, it wouldn’t make sense to play a game in Kalgoorlie or Broome for instance.
Would be good if the Brumbies could take a game to Wagga or Albury though?
The Tahs should aim to play at least one game away from SFS every year, maybe Parramatta, Penrith, Campbelltown, Wollongong, Newcastle, Central Coast? They claim to represent NSW (well the top half), why not play in some of those areas!
mudskipper said | September 22nd 2008 @ 11:45am | Report comment
Clubs will have to change the way they sell their full season memebers tickets if they do a weekend away from their home ground of choice. However I would still recommend that they play within their provinces.
The Swans take a game to Manuka oval in Canberra each year. I could see Super 14 teams taking their most challenging adversary to the far-flung regions of their province to gain advantage…
A couple of examples chaps…
Tahs vs. Bulls at Nimbin
Brumbies vs. Crusaders at Gundagai
Reds vs. Highlanders at Longreach
Force vs. Blues at Broome
there could be something in this…make those ron the oad tours a little longer for the visitors…
True Tah said | September 22nd 2008 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
mudskipper
the games should at least be played in a decent sized stadium, 10-15K.
I dont think the Tahs would have too many supporters in Nimbin, and teams wouldn’t be too happy to have to travel out to Longreach either.
LeftArmSpinner said | September 22nd 2008 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
Don’t take the Games to the people, get the people to come to the games. Thats what the Brumbies do, just look around the Brumbies car park, full of buses from rural and regional southern NSW.
So applying that to the Tahs, Hire some bus/ticket packages for that would suit the R and R areas.
Buses leave at 9am from Mid north coast or Bathurst/Orange/ etc, arrive at SFS by 1pm, lunch and a few beers, watch the game (3-5pm) and then depart at 6pm for return trip, getting home at 10pm.
I went to a Brumbies Reds Sunday arvo game a few years ago in Canberra. Brilliant. And of course, it would fill the SFS, and further improve the atmosphere. Not sure what Fox Sports would say!!!
mudskipper said | September 22nd 2008 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Lefty… you’re right while I’m having fun your doing some real thinking…
I thought the people of Adelaide were still dizzy from watching those race cars rip round their city for all those years.
True Tah said | September 22nd 2008 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
LAS,
when was the last time the Tahs played a game at 3pm?
On todays times, our friends from the mid north coast would be getting home after midnight.
I reckon it would be brilliant if the Tahs played one game each year in regional NSW.
Westy said | September 22nd 2008 @ 10:46pm | Report comment
Mudskipper sorry to blaspheme but i will give it up if it went to Adelaide before Western Sydney.
Midfielder said | September 22nd 2008 @ 11:46pm | Report comment
Westy
Can I challenge you on something …….. you always talk about WS as it is something very special ……….. while I am not saying it is not, a tad further north there are two unions.
The Central Coast Rugby Union, and the Newcastle & Hunter Union , are both very successful unions and have been growing while Sydney leagues have gotten smaller…….. as I understand the Central Coast beat Penrith recently in an Australia wide knock out competition.
How can two such success stories never ever get a mention on this union site. For example the CCU is just over 30 years old and has grown from nothing in that time against enormous odds given RL supported by a number of very large clubs plays a competition equal to the Sydney second division with North’s, Newtown etc. OMG have a look at the Newcastle site its mega huge my guess bigger than Northern & Eastern Suburbs leagues …
Both unions have teams in poorer areas and have just kept growing.
Their combined population is 1.1 million or thereabouts …….. So Westy here is my Challenge to you ………. And all other bloggers what’s wrong with a team in Wyong …………
CCU link http://www.centralcoastsports.com.au/RugbyUnion/1.htm
N/H link http://www.newcastlehunter.rugbynet.com.au/
Midfielder said | September 22nd 2008 @ 11:47pm | Report comment
Westy
Can I challenge you on something …….. you always talk about WS as it is something very special ……….. while I am not saying it is not, a tad further north there are two unions.
The Central Coast Rugby Union, and the Newcastle & Hunter Union , are both very successful unions and have been growing while Sydney leagues have gotten smaller…….. as I understand the Central Coast beat Penrith recently in an Australia wide knock out competition.
How can two such success stories never ever get a mention on this union site. For example the CCU is just over 30 years old and has grown from nothing in that time against enormous odds given RL supported by a number of very large clubs plays a competition equal to the Sydney second division with North’s, Newtown etc. OMG have a look at the Newcastle site its mega huge my guess bigger than Northern & Eastern Suburbs leagues …
Both unions have teams in poorer areas and have just kept growing.
Their combined population is 1.1 million or thereabouts …….. So Westy here is my Challenge to you ………. And all other bloggers what’s wrong with a team in Wyong …………
True Tah said | September 23rd 2008 @ 8:08am | Report comment
Midfielder,
I am aware of the unlikely strength of the Newcastle/Hunter Rugby Union, some of the clubs in that union have got some very healthy sponsorship deals going and have some pretty good facilities…the reason is that I say unlikely is that everyone says Newcastle = Rugby League and Futbol only.
Im not as well informed on Central Coast rugby and its strengths, but as to why there are no teams from these areas in Sydney grade rugby…the same reason why the NSWRU has never considered playing a game there, or the same reason the Wildfires got booted.
mudskipper said | September 23rd 2008 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Midfielder…Central coast is worthy of a team but doesn’t have the broadcaster appeal that Melbourne Victoria market does. If Melbourne finish there new rectangular stadium they will be hard to bet for the 5th Aus Super Rugby team.
It would be good to see a central coast team in the Shute Shield in coming years.
mudskipper said | September 23rd 2008 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Westy…Western Sydney will get a team before Adeliade..Just Melbourne will have a strong bid next time around which sounds like pitch next year for 2010 start up. The other thing about all the Super Rugby teams is they represent differnt Cities. Its the business model…
Midfielder said | September 23rd 2008 @ 9:32am | Report comment
TT
That NSW rugby has never invited the CC & Newcastle teams to play in Sydney comp beggars disbelief ……… criminal negligence perhaps is to strong a term ………. both mate go back and click into those links especially Newcastle they are mega big……….. my son’s comment was maybe they are to successful and show Sydney unions up ………. especially those in WS.
mudskipper said | September 23rd 2008 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Midfielder… I think they should lobby NSWRU to get a CC team in Shield comp… I understand the Canberra Viking were in then got kicked out.
True Tah said | September 23rd 2008 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Midfielder,
Newcastle did have a team in the Premier rugby structure, but the Sydney clubs didn’t like it, and gave them the boot.
Canberra got booted as well…however that was to do with the fact that they kept on winning the comp!
Midfielder said | September 23rd 2008 @ 10:15am | Report comment
TT & Mudskipper
TT
I find that so unreal kick out the successful teams ……… thanks for the info …… but man thats just plain crazy.
Mud
If you looked at the strength of these unions why are they not invited to play …. TT has given us the answer …… they are to good …….. man this is so silly ……… and I tho the old NSL management was bad they now have a new contender for the title
True Tah said | September 23rd 2008 @ 10:28am | Report comment
MF,
remember we are talking about the NSWRU here, and if a decision is going to let Sydney Uni or Randwick get their name engraved on the trophy one more time they will go for it.
mudskipper said | September 23rd 2008 @ 11:18am | Report comment
Yep…This Shute Shield season some of the Brumbies players were training in Canberra then traveling and doing a end of week training with a Sydney Club playing on Saturday then returning to Canberra for further training…If a Canberra Sydney was introduced many of these players would Train with the Brumbies and local Vikings and only travel to play…
I think NSWRU know this would deplete the favored Sydney clubs. Sydney clubs don’t want to travel; the Canberra club would without question. The Vikings are a well funded club (Made up by 3 separate clubs spread throughout south Canberra district) and could easily afford to fly the guys up each week. Furthermore they could afford to fly the opposition down as well.
But the Central Coast is closer to Sydney and really should have a team in the Shield. The Randwick and Uni mafia highjack Sydney rugby and hold the NSWRU administration to ransom…
Westy said | September 23rd 2008 @ 4:40pm | Report comment
Midfielder to answer your challenge I am an unswerving supporter of a sperate Franchise to represent Western Sydney. It would be a franchise to challenge the territory we gave up. If that means forging a new Union to represent Western Sydney/Hopefully Eastwood /Central Coast and Newcastle playing out of Bluetongue Millner /Parramatta /penrith/Campbelltown then so be it.
The Central Coast area is over 400000 and had one team in 1974 now has a first grade of 9 teams and a second grade and colts with a further 8 separate A and B grade teams. Newcastle is even more impressive. Last year a representative Centrel Coast team beat Penrith in a trial.
The idea of a new franchise in a new regional area means much more than just a super 14 team. We would be quite happy for Sydney Uni to play like minded people in their own little competition. Our contracted players would play in our teams in our regional competition seperate to the Sydney club competition.
A new franchise including Western Sydney is radical because it involves much more than just a super 14 team. We would want our own extended club competition. including Campbelltown/ Liverpool/ Penrith/Eastwood/Parramatta/ Hornsby/Central Coast/Newcastle.
Just a thought Midfielder .
True Tah said | September 23rd 2008 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
Westy,
I agree we need a Western Sydney franchise in Super Rugby to lead the way.
However, I do not believe this side would/could represent either the CC or Newcastle areas, they are distinctive areas, and by having their own comps it means they don’t have to put up with the likes of Sydney Uni/Randwick.
Ideally I reckon a Melbourne, Western Sydney and NSW Country side are all feasible ideas for future Super rugby ideas. I would put it to JON that any of these franchises would be more important than selling one to the Japanese.
Having NSW Country Cockatoos playing out of Newcastle and CC and playing some games in areas – i.e Tamworth, Bathurst (now thats an area with a bloody strong rugby competition, the Central West) and a Western Sydney team would mean less work for the NSWRU.
Westy said | September 23rd 2008 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
True Tah…you are probably correct. It is just a reminder that there are surprisingly strong rugby competitions outside Sydney.
Midfielder said | September 23rd 2008 @ 8:11pm | Report comment
Westy
So carrying on your idea, you put a team in Campbelltown / Penrith/ Parramatta/ Hornsby /Central Coast / Newcastle. Seven teams if Eastwood or Southern Districts joined that’s eight regional teams each supported by a union of park rugby unions covering about 3.9 million people.
Play three rounds same as the A-League ……… then these unions provide the player and support base for a S14 team.
Is this what you are saying like a breakaway group leaving the remaining teams supporting the Taths.
Expand on your ideas a bit more it sounds interesting and am I on the right tract in understanding your tho’s
Al said | September 24th 2008 @ 12:32am | Report comment
Westy, I have been thinking the exact same thing in regards to W/S breaking away from the nSwRU, I hadnt considered the CC and Newc as well but thats an excellent idea. My thoughts were that Parra, Penrith, West Harbour, Eastwood as well as Campbelltown, Hawkesbury, Blue Mountains, Liverpool and Blacktown from Subbies and whoever else. The WSRU or WRU premiership teams could play in a knockout with the Sydney teams (and down the track Canberra or QLD teams too) and we are on our way. We would shore up (or more accuratley re-establish) rugby in Western Sydney as well as providing a new tier (eventually) there you go two birds, one stone.
True Tah said | September 24th 2008 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Westy/Midfielder,
I have thought about the idea of a separate union forming WSRU – and it really needs to be done, the NSWRU couldn’t care less about the West, this way, the WSRU should be able to get grants direct from the ARU, and develop the game where kids want to play.
The best way to do it would be when/if a new super franchise (the Rams??) is to be done – that way, a new union would be formed and it would have a team to represent it.
I dont know how Subbies would fit in here, personally I think the whole idea of premier rugby is outdated, and that these clubs should form with subbies as a whole as an extra division here. Alternatively there could be premier clubs in the NSWRU and WSRU, and Subbies would remain the same below it? Junior clubs would remain aligned with the respestive unions.
I don’t agree that Central Coast/Newcastle would need to be involved, if they were they should have either their own team, or provide the base for the Cockatoos – these areas are strong and growing, despite odds against them (bugger all funding against them, giants of futbol and rugby league dominating these areas), they are lucky enough not to have to deal with Uni and Randwick to date.
Westy said | September 24th 2008 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
True Tah…..one thing should be known that in Parramatta Leagues failed bid for a western Sydney franchise was a proposal to fund and run a separate elite club competition linked to thier super 14 team not part of NSWRU.
People do not seem to comprehend the scope of granting a franchise to Western Sydney. They want to build a franchise from the ground up. It means a breakaway from NSWRU and a new union. Call it Norsouwest ….NSW demons if you like but it involves park rugby clubs built into 6 regional rep teams ( Illawarra/Liverpool-Macarthur/Western Sydney/Eastwood /Central Coast/ Newcastle) which play an elite competition on Saturday nights. So as not to interfere with the park sides and to encourage them to attend the rep games.To play in these rep teams one would be semi professional/professional but must be registered in a park side in the regional rep area. All rep players would be contracted to the new Union. Of the 40 players contracted to the new franchise in its first year at least 15 players must come from the rep teams. All 40 contracted players of the new franchise must play in the regional rep sides. Such players would then become available to the weaker rep sides on a AFl draft system…weakest gets first pick.
You are right True Tah we need to get out of the Sydney club competition. Some of our 15 locally based players in the first yea of the Franchise may be young and a bit raw but they will be picked with some old fashioned mongrel in mind.
Why they are cool on Western Sydney franchise is that it involves much more than a new super 14 team it involves a whole new Union. We can only fund it if we get the franchise. Newcastle already gets over a million in local sponsorship…………Penrith and Parramatta together can do likewise…so can Illawarra and Campbelltown/Liverpool has never been tapped.The players from these rep sides play not in an Academy but a proper competition and are available for the Franchise super team. They must not play at the same time as the subbies but at night. plaease come along to see your clubs /area better players.