However my point still remains about how it’s stupid to bang on about goal being scored. AFL and RL has its own strength but for people to tell football fans that the game is crap as it has less goals shows a lack of understanding of the game and people can easily say the same in reverse saying there is too many goals/tries etc which leads to lack of tension and excitement.

My perspective as a football fan has been basically a minority and really meeting zero people who would talk about it so me being a football fan is pretty much me being different from everyone else.

In that way I respect the fact that Australia like a sport that no one else in the world likes because I enjoy a sport that no one else in Australia likes (not true but sometimes it feels like it).

When I was back in school virtually every one was an AFL fan. It was by far the most popular sport in SA. I was the only football fan in the class and knew no one else who were football fans outside my family.

But I took comfort knowing that AFL was popular but so was Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, Macarena, Big Brother, Rove, crappy hollywood movies.

After all lots of devotees does not change the nature of nor the attractiveness of any entertainment.

Watching AFL was like watching an action movie. Sure it has action and explosion but it has no plot, no subtext and no depth. People celebrated the amount of goals scored or the amount of tries scored are like people who claim a movie is better as there is more explosion or more people getting shot at – it’s like that satire of rambo where there was a kill score as the bodies just pile up. Like anyone is suppose to be impress with that.

The reason the A-League is doing poorly is because football is boring!!!

Now, bear in mind I’m talking about Australian football in isolation here, not the “world game”. I’m sure many football fans are now starting to type furiously accusing me of being spawn of the devil with the usual vitriol reserved for peadophiles and nazi sympathisers.

Ok, the game is very popular worldwide, watched and adored by millions upon millions, but so is reality tv. Idol, in it’s various national forms attracts more viewers world-wide than any single sport. Go figure!

My point is, lots of devotees does not not change the nature of nor the attractiveness of any entertainment.

Football games where the mean average score across the board is 1 – nil after 90 minutes of “action” just don’t cut it when compared to say, rugby league. (btw, I’m not a huge league fan)

I took 20 regular NRL games at complete random from last season and came up with the following stats.

On average there are 7.3 tries per game

On average a try is scored every 10.9 minutes

Compare that with 1 goal (on average) every 90 minutes and you may see a picture start to develop. Australian crowds want results ie: scores.

I won’t even touch AFL which is I think is probably more akin to basketball but I’m sure Rugby results will bear out my case.

The only way to fix the game and entice new fans is to make the game more result oriented. Widen the goals (it is 2008), relax the archaic off-side rule… and most important of all… BAN the sheila divers and their bullshit feigned injuries. It is THE greatest blight on the game and most Aussies just won’t cop it. Leave that to the Italians… they love it!

Do something new and Aussie. The rest of the world may follow…. who knows.

OK, bring on the vitriol!

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24568706-5003460,00.html

…..with the article from the Australian.

Maybe a letter to FFA/MV/QR re disappointment with tribunals failure to act and stamp out, no pun intended, violence on the field. Could have imagined the rucus if KM had pole axed Minnicon as he ran through to score.

Serie A circa 2006 was Rigged, and I am now quite fearful that the A-League is also Rigged.

Redb
one thing about the Tiatto decision, and Dave might be able to back me up here – is that we have heard bugger all aobut it! Fox mentioned briefly in the FC show, but apart from that, there has been a deafening silence.

Why would that be??

The only violent act of the last three weeks, and yet he is exonerated, and MV have their three consecutive red cards.

Stinks to high heaven; FFA has no credibility; the A-League is severely compromised.

Your more sensible than others on the Roar, Pippinu is genuinely pissed at the FFA/A League as a Melb Victory fan. I actually spoke to him this morning and his anger is real. How will other MV fans feel about this Tiatto decision?

Redb

Well said

Pippinu

I dont share your view on the claim of HAL being rigged. As in any sporting comp there are baffling decisions…however if we were in Germany now that could be different
You would have to provide some pretty decent evidence to show how it was rigged…more so than just MVs 3 red cards. BTW Did you see ECL last week when Beachamps was sent off by the ref and he wasnt ebven near the play?? UEFA have since recinded the card but he was still sent off…unfortunately sh** happens.

I wish you didnt bring up Dunkley in ‘96, I’m still pissed off he got away with burying Hird’s head into the mud of the SCG which effectively got him off the ground in a game we were well in front.

Redb

we know the AFL rigged it to make Grant and McKernan ineligible for the brownlow,

we know the AFL rigged it to allow Dunkley to play in the ‘96 GF,

heck, I know the AFL rigged it in ‘93 to allow Hawthorn (7th) to play a ‘home’ final at WAverley during the day against North Melb (2nd) – - after their president complained that playing North on a Friday night was effectively a North home game and too great an advantage…………

Sport IS rigged.

I should point out – - NRL prelim final weekend was the worst attended yet for a final 8 structure for the NRL….the first sub 60K result.

So far, their finals agg this year is 206.7K, the worst with a final 8 was 2001 with 269K, so they should surpass that!!!, the next worst was 287.5K in 2000 – - – that might be a very closely run thing…..81,392 last year, that again and they’d get past it. But 5 of the past 6 seasons the NRL managed 300K + aggregates for the finals.

The AFL is interesting -

this year and last, over 570K for the finals, similar to 1998 and 2000. In between there have been all these interstate hosted finals and MCG under reconstruction etc – - so in 2002 for example, Brisbane got to the GF, vs Collingwood – pretty good for tv ratings – - but, only 450K finals crowd.

120,000 extra tickets equates to a fair bit more revenue.

nice article – -

it’s one of those things – - to play, the game provides so much more freedom of movement, freedom of ‘expression’ on the paddock – so to speak. That’s the finding in North America for example as well, that once blokes are drawn down to training and playing, that they more often than not stick with it.

BUt – - the lesson from Sydney circa 1890-1908 was that being the more open game and seemingly being more spectator friendly and more enjoyed by the players wasn’t enough…………..back then it was access to enclosed grounds and then the bonus of the All Golds tour and financial reward – - – these days, there’s other factors.

But, word of mouth from such people help to consolidate gains made, and auskick and it’s good reputation is still a critical plank. (this is my segway)

Interested to hear that 1/4 of auskick participants in Tassie are now Hawthorn supporters – - – generationally, Tassie may actually regard itself as ‘having a team’ within the next 10 odd years should the present arrangement continue. (or, enough of such a connection that it might actually render impossible the full stand alone side).

however,

it remains to be seen if Roar and SFC are long term more stable than the Bullets and the Kings.

“Renouf opens minds to whole new world”

THE AFL could do worse than use the father of Hawthorn youngster Brent Renouf in a marketing campaign in the northern states.

With the AFL set to further its expansion into the rugby union and rugby league heartland on the Gold Coast and in western Sydney, Chris Renouf provides an example that a once closed mind can be opened.

Chris Renouf and his wife, Vicky, who are from New Zealand and now live on the Gold Coast, were as recently as four years ago passionate rugby fans, the type that dismissed the indigenous code as “aerial ping-pong”. Yet nothing could be further from the truth now.

“It was aerial ping-pong to us. A few years ago, that is all it was,” Chris Renouf said.

“But we don’t even watch rugby now. It is just so boring and slow, so much pausing, there is so much nonsense, where as this sport is extraordinary.”

That Renouf had just sat at the MCG with more than 100,000 fans as his son claimed the premiership in only his eighth game with Hawthorn is perhaps reason to explain the exuberance. Yet Renouf said the opportunity presented to his son, when a mate invited him down for a couple of matches at under-16 level, was all he needed to fall in love with AFL.

“Brent went and played with the Surfers Paradise under-16s, and when he came home he said, ‘Dad, I love this game’,” Chris said.

“He was a big boy, but he loved that freedom of being able to get out on the paddock and run and run. I said, ‘go and play’, so he went there the next year and played for the Surfers Paradise under-16s and won a premiership.”

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24415966-5012432,00.html

Getting people to the game is the AFL’s best trump card, not watching on TV, thus a longer road.

Redb

Those football supporters who for what ever reason dont like MV or EM or the colors or that they are too British eg Scottish coach, style of play etc etc. It will interesting to see 1. How many there are and 2. if they will be willing to watch/follow a new team.
The only point of reference (new market and 2nd team introduced) l can think of is in the MLS and LA (admittedly much larger population) – Galaxy were first but didnt connect with the large Latino pop so MLS introduced 2nd team specifically aimed at the latinos and called them Chivas USA ??? Not saying that would be appropriate here but there does need to be clear differences btw MV and the new team to give a choice, not just colors.

“Hearts, hearts, glorious hearts, down in Tynecastle way….”

Redb

It seems the new Olympic Park is right sized for the majority of A League games going forward. MV have been ave 22-26K, that fits pretty well with the 31K capacity. Any big games can still be moved to the TD which lies dormant for most of the spring/summer. I guess that goes for the Melb Vict v Melb Heart games as well.

I’m yet to be convinced 2nd franchise teams work in formerly one team one city markets. I’ve long had serious doubts about the 2nd AFL team in Sydney (the timing is too early), likewise it’s strange a send Brisbane NRL team has not got up in a big market for the NRL. They only way it has worked is Fremantle (WAFL) and Port Adelaide (SANFL), both existing teams in other comps that have been permanently promoted to the elite AFL comp.

Thus Melb Heart as opposed tio Southern Melbourne err…Cross Fc have been dropped. What is Melb Heart’s point of difference? Success may poach Victory supporters I suppose, but its all a bit doubtful especially in this economic climate. The Carlton FC and Collingwood FC were ahead of their time, would have perhaps been a better option methinks? I guess we’ll find out.

Redb

Dave,
nothing to see really — the players only cover avg 19 klms a quarter on regular time. And a lot of it was due to Hawthorn’s 11 rushes conceded.. funny comment made by Caro Wilson as for the added time they are just standing around waiting tor the ump or when the ump blows his whistle for a boundary. As for the mark, the clock still running and the player takes some 30sec to resume play; very boring to watch, just when you want to see a real mark you don’t get to see one in the whole game…. .. Not that they mean anything…

C’ome the Heartssss .. I can’t wait for some really Age Headlines .. “Heart throb” “Heart attack” “Heartless XI” The mind boggles…

~~~~~~~~
KB

Absolutely. Its up to the rest of the country to pull their socks up, so to speak.
The test for MV and their attendances will come when they move to the football specific rectangular ground (our free kick as you like to call it) where anything over 22,000 would make the atmosphere terrific and with the 2nd Melb team coming in 2010. If those football supporters (currently not attending) cant make a choice btw the 2 teams and with a brand new stadium still refuse to turn up well l’m afraid the HAL will not grow any bigger here.

In terms of ads on after AFL goals there has to be a better way on FTA. Even running banner ads on screen or splitting the screen etc

we know that AFL has lots of work to do in the Northern States – - and comparisons to any GF including Sydney or Brisbane just doesn’t hold water – - that’s a given.

agreed re ads after goals – -
my pet hate is that if a player goes down with an injury and requires a stretcher – we get 15 replays from all angles – - but a goal of the year contender………..we’ve gotta wait until the Sunday footy show to see that!!!!!

That’s why AUst Footy has the ‘world’ at it’s feet re the Pay tv market in this country and why Foxtel are so interested.

Dave –

and btw – thanks for the link – - that’s all I ever ask, I don’t mind facts or even rubbery figures, just so long as they are supported as other than a hunch or a front bar 10pm anectdote……..

btw – MVFC disappointing loss, and they keep dropping to 10 players – - you can’t win ‘em all. As a Melbournian, I’m just pleased that even with 100K and massive ratings for the AFL GF, that MVFC still accounted for almost 50% of the 2 country full round HAL attendance………….and people call us Victorians myopic etc etc.

YOu’d be proud of that too I imagine???

Of course. Just giving some stats as MC likes to present plenty.
As said the ratings are not a reflection on the game itself which was a good one. It does however confirm that AFL have plenty of work to do in the northern markets. The mass hysteria in the Melb is matched by barely lukewarm interest in the north.
BTW Those ads after virtually every goal need to be cut back. Part of the joys of scoring is to see the player and crowd reaction which was taken away too often.

I’m sure your smart enough to realise that the composition of the clubs that play off in the granny has a big impact on the TV ratings.

It was a great game of AFL footy, a worthy Grand Final. Melbourne continues its mass passion for the game, it would only be a concern if Melbourne did not tune in considering the teams playing.

Redb

From – http://www.knowfirst.info/forums/showthread.php?t=25963

AFL GF 08
Melbourne 1.28m
Sydney 382,000
Adelaide 335,000
Perth 327,000
Brisbane 256,000

2007 figures
1 AFL GRAND FINAL GEELONG V PORT ADELAIDE Ten 2,572,000 321,000 1,214,000 272,000 378,000 386,000

Sat TV Ratings
Australian Ratings For September 27

——————————————————————————–

1 Seven’s AFL: Grand Final: Presentations Seven 2.583
2 Seven’s AFL: Grand Final Seven 2.460
3 Seven’s AFL: Grand Final: Post-Match Seven 2.009
4 Seven News Seven 2.006
5 Seven’s AFL: Grand Final Pre-Match Entertainment Seven 1.640
6 Movie: Cars Seven 1.195
7 ABC News ABC 1.109
8 Seven’s AFL: Grand Final Countdown Seven 1.037
9 Australia’s Funniest Home Video Show Nine 0.981m
10 National Nine News Saturday Nine 0.936m
11 Movie: Knight Rider Seven 0.902m
12 Rugby League Final Series Pf2 Nine 0.898m
13 Wild At Heart ABC 0.866m
14 Gardening Australia ABC 0.767m
15 The Bill ABC 0.755m
Collectors (Shorts) ABC 0.704m
Crackerjack TEN 0.556m

“The figures are well down from when the Swans are in the GF in 2005 for West Coast v Sydney 3,386,000 watched and in 2006 3,145,000 watched the rematch. Even the 2004 AFL grand final the first Grand Final featuring two non Victorian teams had a TV audience of 2,796,000 mostly due to higher numbers watching in Queensland”

Numbers are well down 2.46m ave- almost 30% down from 2005. Only presenting facts. Actually wasnt a bad game although a real turn off with so many ads after every goal.

How good was that Grand Final!. Considering its early Saturday afternoon timeslot the AFL GF does pretty well in the ratings.

Redb

Dave brought it up………….not sure why??

SOmething about ‘cracks in the facade’ vs ’smell the fear’……

From the Australian newspaper.

“Seven’s coverage of Hawthorn’s victory over Geelong delivered an average audience of 2.491 million in the five major metropolitan markets and a national audience (including non-metropolitan markets) of 3.273 million. Its metro audience peaked at 2.932 million in the five metro markets and 3.866 million nationally.

The Beijing Olympic Games opening ceremony is the top-rating event of the year with an average audience of 3.3 million. But the AFL Melbourne audience of 1.295 million on Saturday topped the Melbourne audience of 1.028 million for the Games ceremony and is a bigger Melbourne audience than for any other event, including the 2006 Commonwealth Games, since 2006

While the audience is well short of the 3.39 million that watched the 2005 grand final won by the Sydney Swans, Seven will be happy with solid average audiences for a match between two Victorian teams in Sydney (331,000), Perth (329,000), Adelaide (305,000) and Brisbane (232,000). ”

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24415716-7582,00.html

Redb

hardly on topic Mr.Dave. The original article by Mr.Fink makes no reference to AFL……I have no idea why you’re bringing it up.

Midfielder -

I didn’t write this article – - however, please note that the soccer gihadists have been going on about ‘rising crowds, rising interest’ as sure signs of a very near future take over of number 1 position in Australia…………..and if there are soccer folk who feel that some NRL and AFL folk are guilty of arrogance and requiring being taken down a peg or two………..well, the same goes the other way.

Many of us who find the Aust sporting and especially football landscape so interesting, are very curious about the progression of the FFA and HAL in that market……likewise the strategies and efforts of the NRL and AFL and ARU relative to the marketplace in which they find themselves and the unique or particular pressures on each code.

And so why do I refer to crowds – —

on this thread – - I would have thought it obvious – - have you noticed the title?? Still time left to plug the A-League crowd drain

at other times, well, it’s a pretty good indicator, along with people willing to pay out cash to buy club memberships or sign up for foxtel – - that people are willing to put money where their supposed interests lie. Because, unlike a sample size restricted ’survey’, such as tv ratings – - attendance is real (mostly, we know stories of freebies and ‘inflated’ figures), memberships are real (mostly, we know stories of people signing up their pets), and tv ratings are real………….just as real as ‘potential viewing audience’.

btw – - international soccer and the ACL has stuff all to do with the HAL…….this thread is about the ‘A-League’, the HAL. Stand alone, as a domestic top level soccer league. SO – - try to keep to the topic. Talk of internationals and the like belongs on a different thread.

Dave -
A. present your stats and
B. no surprise that the AFL GF figures are flat when there’s not the same dedicated 2 state or even 3 state matchup – - we know that Syd vs WCE in Melb for the AFL GF was a bonanza………….that’s sports marketing, you don’t always get the best tv viewing combination.

The NRL by contrast this year, will be excited that again, they get Melb in the GF, and it could only be better if it were Storm vs Broncos and thus absolutely engaging all 3 states in their ‘national’ outlook.