Not sure about the Heart and East Melbourne. There are no ethnic associations and I think Mooroolbark from the old NSL came from that area. They weren’t a great success and only lasted one year.

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there are plenty of people in west Sydney who follow Sydney FC already.

If a western sydney franchise was added, it would be marketed as Penrith/Blue Mountains.

A 2nd Victoria team would be based around Geelong area, as I understand it has a separate identity to Melbourne.

When they bring in 2nd teams in WA and SA, I expect that Fremantle would be the 2nd WA franchise and SA would probably be similar to Port Adelaide.

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Ok, shall dismiss all your posts as spurious dribble from now on.

Redb

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Yes that’s the 64 dollar question and its not jsut restricted to the A Leauge, as the AFl consider a second Sydney team, NRL considers second Brisbane team. Super 14 considers any team

Millster,

Geelong maybe….. Frankston!.. Noooooooooooooooooo

Redb

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I am firming up around the view that even if in practise it is eroded, nominally at least there is some merit in retaining the ‘one city’ concept and separating out team constituencies still on a fairly well defined geographic basis.

So, for example, in Sydney we are seeing the Illawarra concept gain some prominence over the assumption of just a ‘West Sydney’ team. Even if a team were to end up in West Sydney, some friends with whom I chat locally see merit in it being marketed as a Penrith/Blue Mountains club to maintain that level of separation from the city.

Similarly in Melbourne I am sure that opportunities to use Geelong or Frankston in the branding of a future club are being considered. I don’t know the demographics of those areas well enough to comment on the business case for choosing one of those, but it would certainly create a clear separation of identity from Melbourne Victory.

Anyway, long way of saying that now that the HAL is facing 2nd Sydney and 2nd Melbourne teams in the face, the benefits of that separation of geography and identity are becoming very clear to many observers and I think there is a strong case to retain it.

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How would the second melbourne team differentiate from Melbourne Victory?

People say that in West Sydney people don’t watch Sydney FC as it’s too far away and that Sydney FC hasn’t engage the community there. So they claim that a second Sydney team will win new crowds and will not gobble up crowds from Sydney FC.

Does Melbourne have those same issue in which Sydney has. Would a second Melbourne club win crowds from underepresented areas or would they just eat up crowd from Melbourne Victory. It seems to me from face value that Melbourne does a good job at garner support from the whole city of Melbourne and that the city has pretty much consider Victory as their side. Perhaps the success of Melbourne Victory will make it hard for a second club to break the market. The only underepresented groups that a second Melbourne club could win support from are the ethnic group and old NSL supporters which may open a can of worms. The question has to be asked - What type of Football supporters in melbourne do not support Melbourne Victory and what would Melbourne Hearts do different to win supporters from that group? If that question can’t be answered then I’m very skeptical whether a second melbourne team can succeed.

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The second Melb A-League team will be an interesting development to follow and if the new franchises are going to survive under the tighter financial controls.
Not sure yet if the gloss of the A-League is dulling or other factors affecting crowds and ratings.

Interesting times, but it all goes on regardless and there is still plenty of football to watch right round the world.

As good (or bad) as the NSL was and their small crowds - the national competition ran for 27 years.

BTW thanks for posting guys - I’ve managed to beat Pippinu’s conspiracy theory article into second place this month with 121 posts.

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ah, that’s better - - I was amazed by those figures and some how sceptical. The fellow on Brissie radio didn’t sound the brightest of all sparx.

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real estate auction clearances are around 65% in Melb.

Redb

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given that many strategic plans might have assumed a growth factor for MVFC rather than decline factor re crowds etc - - the Melb modelling might be a little out. Remember 2 years ago, MVFC averaged 32K at Telstra Dome (for 8 matches - not counting finals). And the sky looked the limit. Last year that TD ave reduced to 26K……but they had an average season. This year, with a ripping start they have dropped that average to 22K……we’ve seen their first ever TD sub 20K crowd on a competition free weekend and even whilst the team does the job on the paddock to top the table, the crowd figures this season have progressively trended downward.

What’s it say about the Melbourne market that was perhaps used for modelling 2 years ago? Everyone estimated that the new 30K capacity venue would be too small and a waste of money to NOT be built to 40K at least capacity up front. Right now, it’s looking too big for all prospective tennants. Fair enough though, the long term may and should be different, but, the long term is only accessed via the short term doorway.

Dave -

the big difference about drawing solace from comparisons to the J-League, or MLS is - well - to put it bluntly - - size. We only have 20 odd million people and there already are 3 other footy codes divided into that. The HAL and FFA know that a lot of things have to go right for them - - and the dangers now that economic belt tightening etc may be presenting during a phase of expansion might just be too big a bight to take.

btw - I was intrigued to hear on the radio up in Brissie on Saturday morning that Real Estate Auction clearances in Melb were still running around 80% whilst in Brisbane they were sub 40%.

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and here’s a pat on the back from the Right Honourable John Della Bosca

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARLMENT/hansArt.nsf/V3Key/LC20060302006

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Midfielder,
do you think Lyle Gorman and the Mariners board would mind running SFC as well and help them to make a profit and connect with the local community like the Sand Shaggers are doing.

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Gala Day success at ParkleaThursday, 2 October 2008

Football NSW & Mariners Gala Day
Football NSW © Football NSW The Central Coast Mariners met with their Members and supporters south of the Central Coast for the occasion of the second annual Football NSW and Mariners Gala Day at the Valentine Sports Park, Parklea last Sunday.

Played out in ideal conditions for football, Mariners players and coaches met with competitors from across the state, with an estimated 1,000 players, coaches and spectators in attendance throughout the day.

Of the competitions that were contested, it was the Rockdale City Suns that were crowned winners of the Under 10’s competition, while the Hawkesbury Commodores claimed the Under 11’s crown.

Perhaps the most committed of all of the clubs that attended were Tottenham from inland Dubbo and Bathurst ’75 FC, each of whom were in transit for several hours over some 350 kilometres en route to the north-west of Sydney.

“I’d firstly like to extend a huge thank you to everyone at Football NSW for their assistance in co-ordinating such a fantastic event that again provided our club with a tremendous chance to meet and mingle with our Members and supporters south of the Central Coast,” said Mariners Executive Chairman Lyall Gorman.

“Lastly but certainly not least, we must also thank each of the competing teams, particularly the likes of Tottenham and Bathurst ’75 FC who showcased amazing dedication in order to take part in a day that was immensely enjoyed by our playing group and the Gala Day’s competing players alike.”

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Exactly and this is what l posted yesterday re MV -
“Melb 2nd team is a must and the city is big enough to cope…obviously needs to be done properly but…interested to read the MV response to a 2nd team was along the lines…oh now we will have to put more effort into community work, school clinics, media etc etc. What a larfff…why do they need another team to suddenly realsie they have to work damn hard to get a crowd. l think they have had it too easy and to a certain extent rested on their laurels in that respect…a 2nd team will give them a kick up the arsenal and also instigate a rivalry which in term makes the clubs earn support not have it dumped into their lap as to a certain extent MV have. ”

Why do they need a 2nd team to stimulate them to greater efforts on the things they should have been doing anyway?.

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Perth should have a lot of international matches I agree………also some owners who care more about football than taking their Asian Clients to matches would help as well ……….. bring back Nick

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Maybe Perth needs some International matches?

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Obie One is Frank Lowy ………… or my name for him anyway ……… he has achieved a lot he has done a lot …….. his one failing as I see it is SFC.

Savvas

Basketball did not have Obie One …….. nor the Socceroos ….. nor the world cups …….. nor an SBS.

Further if you study the fall of basketball it has a lot to do with the management or I should say poor management like in season two they more than doubled the ticket prices, played midweek games nay nothing like basketball. Further Newcastle go back to the start of the NSL and are essentially the same team, Newcastle Rosebuds, Newcastle KB etc

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For example, I don’t think FFA have been really innovative in the last 12 months in their marketing and promotion of the code. I also think the clubs have a way to go in terms of their own responsibilities to promoting themselves in their communities, proactive open-ness to media of key players, etc.

Not trying to bag outright as there is much that is good in the HAL, but just saying our code has to keep its finger on the pulse and that includes having a real plan to keep up the visibility and excitement of the game.

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Here is an unpleasant theory to consider.

They are the OLDEST existing club in the top sphere of Austrlian Soccer from the old NSL days when thy started in 1997.

The club appears to have started their decline about the time the A-League started. Now, lets look at Australian Basketball and its national competition, the NBL.

It started in 1979, and started getting big crowds about 1984, and they remained big until the mid 1990’s when the slow descent commenced.

According to my time line theory, the other clubs will start seeing crowd figures dropping in about 5 years.

I am sure it will not happen to the same extent as Basketball, but a competition that is nowhere near the standard that we can all see on tv from Europe (Football) and USA (Basketball) may impact the game here.

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who is Obie One?

In terms of connections, you could also argue that Adelaide connects pretty bloody well.

I think the Gold Coast side will do pretty well as well, it sounds all glitz and glamour and big bucks being thrown around, just like the Gold Coast.

I have fears that North Queensland could turn out to be another Perth Glory though.

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To Midfielder though, to me your recent post does not 100% make sense. While I share your fear of going back to the failed model of VERY ethno-centric clubs, I still see ethnic grooupings as being part of the Australian community. So when you say that SFC should link up to the broader community, to me that means in part finding linkages into some of the more prominent cultural groupings. Not exclusively of course, but it is part of the equation. Imagine a SFC relevant to the Italian folk who have their cultural ‘home’ in Leichardt and/or in Five Dock? Imagine a SFC tapped into the Asian communities of the Ashfield/Strathfield areas or that around Mascot/Kingsford? I can’t imagine a strategy for linking the club to the Sydney community that wouldn’t have some consideration of how to become attractive to these constituencies. Its delicate, but this is the balance we need to find. One cannot address community linkage as an abstract thing, as an ethno-agnostic thing. Cultural groupings ARE part of the fabric of our communities, and therefore need to be part of the fabric of our clubs.

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This ethnic thing is so dumb ……………. it was / is a flawed model that failed to connect to the broader football and Australian community.

FFA also have not connected aside from Newcastle & the Mariners, the FFA will be judged on there ability to connect to the football family this will take money / research and a marketing plan. But SFC get a smaller crowd than the collective crowds of the old NSL teams.

SFC are the best example of where a club who is not connecting and its present and past management should all hang their heads in shame. How with over 175, 000 registered players in Sydney can SFC not sell out each week. IMO they are in the wrong location to start with and always have been ……. but where is the guidance and research to place the next side …. not who has the money to support it …….. but where are your fans.

The MV forum believes they have been successful in spite of there management rather than because of it.

For me forget any return to a ethnic team it simply will not work and has been seen to fail in the Australian market place …… equally too I am concerned that the FFA are disconnected from the broader football community……… SFC are holding football back and for all the great good Obie One has done for football I wonder at times if SFC are a revisited Sydney H …. That’s why their failing.

IMO it will come down to management / research / …….and getting someone who does not want a team in Sydney’s Eastern Suburbs

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has Sydney FC explored any links with foreign clubs?

Im aware you are from Paris, and the only ligue 1 futbol team Im aware of would be Paris St-Germain (although I don’t know too many other French clubs apart from Lens and Olympique Marseille) - so if Sydney FC entered into an agreement with PSG how would you react?

Having said that, for all the history re: La Perouse and WW1, etc, Franco-Australian links are tenuous at best, no real large scale migration from France to Australia, opposition to nuclear testing, for the majority of Australias history at least until the 1990s, Serge Blanco was probably one of the better known Frenchman to many Australians (and he wasn’t even born in France!).

It would seem logical for clubs to align themselves with Greek, Maltese, Italian and Yugoslav clubs overseas to tap into this base?

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My mouth’s watering already - can’t wait to get home to my meat, chips and 3 veg!

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Berti

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Full strength beer - got my vote.

Redb

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