By AAP
October 6th 2008 @ 7:40am
Related coverage
Reds sign All Black Braid
All Blacks flanker Daniel Braid today became the first overseas international signed by an Australian Super Rugby team under the new Foreign Player Policy.
He will prove an invaluable asset to Queensland next year, according to the Australian Rugby Union (ARU) High Performance General Manager David Nucifora.
Braid has been recruited by the Reds for next season’s Super 14 following the sudden retirement of long-serving former Wallabies flanker David Croft.
A backrower who played against Australia in the Sydney Bledisloe Cup Test this year, Braid’s signing by Queensland was only made possible by the relaxation of the ARU’s Foreign Player Policy early last month.
“This case highlights just how important the decision was to allow the states to contract overseas players” Nucifora said.
“The quality of Daniel as a player and a person will be invaluable to the Reds, who needed to fix a problem in terms of depth and experience at openside flanker.
“Daniel is a world-class player who can help bring through the younger talent emerging in the backrow at Queensland.
“He was the New Zealand Super 14 Player of the Year in 2007 and has consistently been the back-up No.7 to Richie McCaw with the All Blacks.”
The ARU Board last month accepted a management recommendation to lift the ban that previously prevented teams from contracting any player ineligible for Qantas Wallabies selection.
There were, however, conditions attached to the relaxation of the Foreign Player Policy.
Each of the four Australian provinces is permitted to sign only one marquee foreigner — an international who can never qualify for Australian selection because he has already represented another country at Test, A-team or Sevens level.
The provinces are also able to contract a second developing foreign player who has yet to represent another country and could qualify for the Wallabies after three years of consecutive residency.
Queensland Rugby Union (QRU) Performance Rugby Manager Ben Whitaker said signing a player of Braid’s experience and ability was a real coup for the Reds.
“We have some very talented flankers like Poutasi Luafutu recently come into the squad and others on the development pathway, but Daniel will give us the depth and experience we need in that position and help promote competition within the squad,” Whitaker said.
“Open side flankers with Daniel’s outstanding skill and professional experience simply aren’t currently available in Australia, so this allows us to fill the gap left by Crofty’s unexpected departure until our development program catches up.”
Braid said: “I am excited about the opportunity of playing Super 14 out of Queensland, the timing, the place and the team all contributed to my decision.
“It is also exciting to see the opportunities for professional rugby players growing as the game evolves globally.”
Braid has 59 Super Rugby caps for the Blues.
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AllBlackfan said | October 6th 2008 @ 11:33am | Report comment
Just how bad a state is Qld rugby in that they have to resort to signing up an All Black? (their second kiwi signing in as many months)!!
Qld is rapidly turning into a sixth NZ S14 provincial side — Braid, Cooper, Turinui, Taylor, etc.
(I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Daniel Braid turns out to be their best player next season.)
It’s bad enough that the NZ rugby is being targeted by European clubs; now Australian sides want to join in!!
One bad turn deserves another, I always say — you poach our players (and coaches); we (NZ) pull out of the S14 and go our own way. What say?
Jerry said | October 6th 2008 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
Braid’s not a bad player and will improve the Reds ball winning and linking ability, but to say he’s “consistently been the back-up No.7 to Richie McCaw with the All Blacks” is just taking liberties with the truth. He was briefly the backup in 02/03 and was recalled this year, but only when it became clear that So’oialo or Thompson wasn’t up to it (not to mention Marty Holah being in Wales and Chris Masoe having lost a lot of form).
AllBlackfan said | October 6th 2008 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Yeah, well that’s the media for you.
They’re trying to make it sound like a) the Reds have made THE Signing of the year, and b) that this is a very good thing for Aussie rugby.
The media has already been linking Dan Carter with the Waratahs (like that WILL happen!). Who next? Richie McCaw for the Brumbies?
All these stories remind me of that old adage about clinches and straws.
If SA pulls out of the S14, these deals wil be worth the same as a Bulldogs contract!!
Jerry said | October 6th 2008 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
Yeah, I didn’t really think the likes of Daniel Braid were what people were envisaging when the ARU announced the marquee player exception. There was talk of the likes of O’Driscoll or Cipriani, not a journeyman S14 forward. I wonder if anyone checked if Paul Tito was off contract?
There’s about as much chance of the NZRU pulling out of the S14 as there is of Buck being brought back. They need the revenue too much and, with the Air NZ cup having been reduced to a developmental role for up and comers, it’s also more important in terms of showing whether a player is a test prospect.
Jerry said | October 6th 2008 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Whoops – thought you said NZ, not SA. Ignore the last sentence then.
I still don’t think SARU will pull out. There’s a fair few problems with playing in the NH competions – I don’t think the unions & clubs involved will really want to commit to the travel involved in having to go to SA for matches for starters.
hayden said | October 6th 2008 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
Braid might come across as a journeyman next to McCaw [ who doesn't? ], but outside of George Smith, who is a legend of the game, Braid will be the best No 7 in Aus rugby. Injury and timing have blighted his career. All the best to him.
Jerry said | October 6th 2008 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
It’s hard to say, really. Braid is decent, but Pocock could well be better than him next year.
AllBlackfan said | October 6th 2008 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
I think NZ’s plight is just as desperate as the ARU’s — it’s by far the smallest of the top Eight mjaor rugby powers (or SANZAR) countries.
New Zealand CANNOT afford to lose players offshore, whether it’s across the ditch or to the other side of the world.
The S14 in its current format is no longer an solution for NZ — either it much change drastically or it must be replaced.
Braid’s “defection” to Qld is hard to take because he’s a current All Black — he says it’s a lifestyle thing, which is true (can’t imaging Qld paying him mega bucks).
But if this trend continues, NZ will be better served ditching the S14 because all it’s top players will be playing offshore anyway. If these players won’t play for a NZ side, what’s the point of taking part in such a competition. Best to shore up your own defences.
NZ is in the same boat as the other Island unions exept for one big point: NZ produces world class players. If these interprovincial player movements heat up, NZ sides COULD end up being the perpetual wooden spooners of the competition.
Not because their rugby is bad but because the country’s rugby economy is too small to keep their players!
ohtani's jacket said | October 6th 2008 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
There’s only so much rugby that a guy like Braid can play in New Zealand before he gets frustrated at not being a proper All Black. Can’t blame the guy for going overshore if he’s offered more money.
van der Merwe said | October 6th 2008 @ 5:40pm | Report comment
“NZ is in the same boat as the other Island unions exept for one big point: NZ produces world class players.”
No, no, let me correct you, NZ poaches from the Island Union’s boat. There is no denying this, and I’m afraid the chickens are finally coming home to roost.
It was a lovely gesture playing Samoa C the other day, though.
Andrew B said | October 6th 2008 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
van der Merwe,
You are wrong about the NZRU and the whole poaching argument. Its very out of date. At the last world cup the PI teams had more NZ born players than NZ had PI born players.
Allblackfan,
Morgan was born in NSW, you can’t claim him as a kiwi!
Benjamin said | October 6th 2008 @ 8:38pm | Report comment
Don’t be silly Jerry, Tito is currently leading the Cardifff surge to dominate Europe… and they wonder why they have such an understrength scrum. Jerry, did I see your name on the ‘Rolling Maul’ last week?
van der Merwe, when the chickens roosted did they bring the 3N title and Bledisloe with them?
Jerry said | October 7th 2008 @ 6:26am | Report comment
Yeah, that was me Benjamin. It was just so painfully obvious that Jones was simply trolling for a negative response, but I figured I’d call him on a couple of the more obviously bogus claims he’d made. Of course he ignored that part of my e-mail and only responded to the bit he agreed with, but that’s to be expected. It’s really quite pathetic that a prize winning journalist on one of the leading rugby papers in Britain has reduced himself to the level of a message board troll who has to include some variation on “The All Blacks are chokers/poachers/powder puff forwards hurr hurr hurr LOL” in every article. It’s impossible to really tell where he’s being ignorant (perhaps wilfully) and where he’s just stirring for the sake of it.
AllBlackfan said | October 7th 2008 @ 6:55am | Report comment
Yeah, Andrew B, but we can claim Dean Mumm — he doesn’t even have an Aussie passport!! (And don’t even get me started on Robbie `Dummy Spitter’ Deans!)
Van der Merwe,
I was born and raised in Fiji so I can tell you that while Pacific Islanders are a very talented bunch physically, their skill level sucks. The reason these Islander players (whether born in NZ or raised in the Islands) are so good is that they are exposed to the NZ rugby system where they learn about stuff like positional play and composure (which is something, based on my years of watching Suva club and Fijian provincial rugby, they don’t understand in the islands).
The Braid case is getting down to that proverbial last straw — NZ is a small country; it has a much lower threshold for tolerating offshore playr poaching. Players may reasonably want to sample an overseas lifestyle. In which case there’s Europe. But Australia? This case makes the ARU (and John O’Neill) look extremely hypocritical in their push for another Super 15 side.
It’s clear to all and sundry that the ARU does not have the depth for another side and that the players overseas are not willing to come back. So what is their plan B? Recruit Kiwis and South Africans.
Prediction: I think we are going to end up with a composite NZ.SA side based in Australia (with the token Aussie, of course) based in non-rugby territory like Melbourne.
True Tah said | October 7th 2008 @ 7:07am | Report comment
Allblackfan,
look on the bright side, Daniel Braid will be playing for the Reds, which means he won’t be featuring in the finals, which means he will be well-rested for the Tri Nations!!
Benjamin said | October 7th 2008 @ 7:25am | Report comment
I thought that might have been you. I’m on it too and similar to you his reponse isn’t actually a response to what is printed – which is completely pointless. I had another paragraph concerning his ‘Lions Watch’, which was completely lopped off, hence I try to limit my replies to once every other week otherwise I self-loathe for falling for his usual goads. I think the paper is slowly reducing his work in favour of Stuart Barnes. I quite like Barnes, his prose is OTT but he’s normally quite accurate. Jones on the other hand seems to be watching a completely different sport. Every week he seems to get a bit of Carter bashing in, his logic being that he is inconsistent. In spite of that he still persists that Hernandez, perhaps the most inconsistent player EVER, is a rugby genius. It’s boring, but just when I thought I was out… they pull me back in….
Back on to the subject of Braid anyhow – I think it’s a great chance for some cross-germination. Not only does it provide a new experience for players but it also doesn’t break the player production line as some cynics are claiming.
Matt said | October 7th 2008 @ 7:41am | Report comment
To be honest I think Braid would have got that dreaded phone call from Graham Henry (or probably even Steve Hansen) and seen the writing on the wall.
“Sorry Dan, but we’re taking Lats (Tanerau Latimer) up North with us as the 7 cover. He’s younger, doesn’t get injured as much, is in better form and is a better investment for the future”.
“Your Auckland team-mate Tololima-Ava’a has also looked pretty good this season too. He’s certainly faster and more athletic, so we’re not even that sure you’ll be featuring all that much for the Blues next season anyway”.
I could almost be certain that he was overlooked for the NH tour and therefore realised that his AB aspirations were basically over. So he’s heading off for more money. And I’d imagine that the Reds would play pretty well to fix their No.7 dilemma.
ABFan, I agree that NZ is a small nation. But in terms of player depth we’re still a very big country rugby wise. We may not have as many registered players as other nations, but we have the best systems for the players we do have.
There are many kids getting signed onto pro contracts at school now. The 17yo Halfback from Waikato Boys was recently approached by the Western Force for a pro contract, but he was quickly snapped up by Waikato. All but 2 of the 2007 NZ school boys team have pro contracts. They are all on fitness and weights plans from before they get older than 16.
NZ and SA can stomach a constant stream of overseas player movements, but it is certainly hard to stomach the Aussie S14 franchises taking players out of our teams to make up for the shortfall of them not having a decent develoment pathway (3rd Tier comp).
Especially when JON has actively moved away from developing an NPC or Currie Cup, which is what gives NZ and SA so much quality in depth.
Jerry said | October 7th 2008 @ 7:54am | Report comment
True Tah – the NZRU hasn’t actually made any official statement about whether Braid would be eligible for the AB’s but under the current selection policy I don’t think he would be. The current policy is that a player must play for a NZ franchise or province, not just in the same competition. I suspect that this will be amended to allow the likes of Braid* to play for the AB’s, sooner if not later (as an aside Grant Fox was discussing this very topic on the radio this morning).
If that policy were relaxed, it might also allow the NZRU to look at recruiting other NZ eligible players who currently play in Australia, eg the likes of Quade Cooper or James O’Connor (I realise both will soon be ineligible for NZ when they pick up Wallaby caps, but they were the first two who came to mind). There is obviously some further issues to consider there, obviously the ARU doesn’t allow non Wallaby eligible players in the S14 other than the two exemptions, but I wonder if that may be relaxed with an expanded S14.
*not specifically Braid, but if someone like Ali Williams or Keven Mealamu opted to sign for an Australian franchise, maybe then. Unless McCaw is injured, Braid won’t be selected again and even then I would expect the selectors will look at developing the likes of Thompson, Latimer or Messam as a more long term option. Braid’s selection in Sydney highlighted a lack of depth and remedying that will be one of the selector’s priorities.
Benjamin – He’s a parody these days, but he’s doing very well at generating replies. He’s turning into the Daily Mail of rugby writers to achieve that, of course. Barnes is much better, as you say, and I’ve noticed Jones does less and less match reports which is just as well as he doesn’t actually seem to watch the games anyway – he always singles out the same players for praise or derision regardless of how they actually perform. For comment, I far prefer Brian Moore who is at least honest, up front and far more self aware about when he’s stirring.
Nick (KIA) said | October 7th 2008 @ 8:16am | Report comment
Hey,
I’ve posted this elsewhere, but is a bit relevant to discussion here.
Why don’t overseas unions have to pay the NZRU a transfer fee for these players? It seems only fair that the NZRU be rewarded for developing players. This would allow them to continue their good work keep the supply of professionals coming for overseas unions, as well as protecting their local rugby economy.
I appreciate would take change from IRB, but seems sensible to keep the $$ flowing from the people benefitting from these players playing for their teams and attracting sponsorship etc (ie NH clubs, now ARU) to producers. I’m sure other ‘exporter nations’ (SA, Island nations, Argentina, Italy, probably Wales, in fact most apart from France and England) would support this.
I’m sure I’m not the first one to think of this – what are the issues stopping it? Would it work?
True Tah said | October 7th 2008 @ 8:21am | Report comment
Nick,
could the clubs/provinces which import the players afford to pay transfer fees?
Also, shouldn’t the payment be made to the provincial union as opposed to the NZRU?
Nick (KIA) said | October 7th 2008 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Not sure ARU could, but we keep hearing about how much $$$ there is in the NH game. They pay the players heaps, they’re earning well off ‘our’ players. I’d guess they could afford a one off payment.
NZ (S14) players are contracted to NZRU, and NZRU funds development. They would receive the cash under the NZ setup, but it might be different elsewhere.
I think that moving forward ten years this would be an important step in maintaining the viability of rugby internationally. If they trend continues, as Allblackfan alludes to, we’ll have no competition in NZ. NZRU is going broke. It’s the competition and structures (that need funding) that produce the players in the first place. No competition, no players. The competition there can’t attract the same $$$ as NH in sponsorship terms because of the small population/weak economy. But by selling our players we develop we can keep it going.
Jerry said | October 7th 2008 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Nick – Transfer fees are, in effect, the cost of buying someone out of the remainder of their contract. The vast majority of rugby players don’t transfer mid-contract they do it when their contract has concluded. There’s no legal basis for a transfer fee in such a situation.
There are exceptions, such as with Jerry Collins, where a player is released from their contract in order to head overseas but they’re pretty rare.
Nick (KIA) said | October 7th 2008 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Hmmm. Legal basis, that could well be a sticking point.
I had a look on Wikipedia about this (source of all knowledge), with respect to the round ball game.
Prior to 1995 (Bosman ruling) clubs paid each other transfer fees even after contracts had expired. Bosman case estabilished this as a constraint of trade. Currently fees are paid for players in contract only (as Jerry stated).
But they also mention in the same para:
“Historically, transfer fees were paid even when the player was out of contract (except in Spain), but since the Bosman ruling, this is no longer the case. This ruling occurred when the European Union declared that the practice of demanding a fee for players out of contract was illegal. However, in order to secure an income for smaller clubs, UEFA regulations still state that a fee must be paid for players under the age of 23. This may be set by a tribunal if it cannot be agreed upon between the two clubs.”
I’m not sure exactly what that means – receiving clubs still pay initiating clubs some cash for some players? And governing bodies can set fees rather than having them negotiated between parties? This is the type of thing I’m thinking about for IRB to do to protect ’smaller clubs’ in a financial sense.
AllBlackfan said | October 7th 2008 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Matt, your point about the Force approaching the Waikato junior player reinforces my concern.
How big a country do u think NZ is if you have the likes of Australia (players and coaches), England (both rugby codes), Wales (coaches and players), Scotland (ditto Aust and Wales), France (players) and Japan (players) feeding off it?
NZ is no longer losing players in the twilight of their careers; they’re losing players in the middle of their careers.
There’s an article on NZ stuff.com which makes my point on Braid — the Australians are in a position to do real damage to NZ rugby because they are aware of the talent coming up through the ranks and will target them (due in no small part to John Mitchell, Deans and Nucifora). Look at the likes of Sekope Kepu and Ezri Taylor; all the talk over here about how promising a prop Kepu (an age grade NZ rep) angers me no end — Aust rugby had no input in his development yet they stand to benefit.
True Tah said | October 7th 2008 @ 11:22am | Report comment
AllBlackFan
are you really worried about Ezra Taylor coming to the Reds as well? From what I can work out, he is journeyman at best and injury prone as well, and I thought he was Australian-born anyway, so at the end of the day, its not a catastrophic blow to NZ rugby.
Kepu, well Ive heard mixed reviews on his ability and at Sydney club rugby level as well, I dont believe he would be able to make the All Blacks.
I see your point, and I really hope the brains trust of Australian rugby has better development plans than simply recruiting a whole heap of Kiwis.
Greg Russell said | October 7th 2008 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
Braid is a fantastic signing for Qld, exactly what they need, in that he has both a lot of ability and a lot of experience.
So much for stating the obvious. Here are some less obvious points, some of which have been already been (lightly) touched on in the above discussion, to which I am a latecomer:
1. When the Reds signed Ezra Taylor (who, incidentally, is a very talented player whose problem is not that he’s a journeyman, but that he’s injury-prone), Phil Mooney said “The most immediate need is a No7″ and that the Reds would put all their resources into finding one. That they have now done. It’s not too often in the last decade that the Qld management has actually done what they needed to do. So this signing is a very positive indication that Qld is improving its act off the field, something which usually results in improved performance on the field.
2. The NZRU is now faced by the curious tale of two Daniels: Carter will not play S14 next year (because he will have a “sabbatical” at Perpignan) but will be eligible for All Blacks selection, while Braid will play S14 but, according to existing NZRU rules, will not be eligible. Even the dullards at the NZRU will be able to see that this is a ridiculous and logically indefensible situation, so what will they do?
3. Forget all of Braid’s comments about wanting a new challenge, enjoying the Qld lifestyle, and so on: the bottom line is that he’s going to the Reds because they have offered him significantly more money than what he can get for being a S14 player and occasional All Black reserve in NZ. It has been evident for some time that Australian S14 contracts are worth more than NZ S14 contracts (how else to explain that so much dead wood remains in Australian rugby, while NZ has no problem getting its older players to take up contracts in Europe and Japan?). There is also the issue that the NZ S14 teams are run on a socialist model (the NZRU controls almost everything) while the Australian franchises have far more flexibility, i.e., they can offer a player like Braid a fatter contract. It follows from all this that Braid is likely to be the first of a trend, not an exception. For example, what odds that John Mitchell and Andy Friend are both searching for a good New Zealand prop right at this very moment?
Nick (KIA) said | October 7th 2008 @ 12:58pm | Report comment
Greg,
Interesting comments.
I agree with 1 – QLD seem to be moving ahead, at a time when the other three aus franchises are struggling a bit (off field at least), and despite their rubbish on field performance last year, I expect they’ll do better in 2009.
2. – they’ll do nothing, just like they didn’t change the rules when Tony Brown played in SA. Braid won’t be selected again for ABs, wasn’t up to it this year (injury notwithstanding). Logic doesn’t need to enter into it! It would be come interesting if, say, Ali Williams was signed to play in Australia, then I think they’d have to consider allowing S14 players. To me this would’t be a complete disaster – you’d still be comparing players playing against each other when selecting ABs squad.
3. Clearly is about $$, although if he really wanted to chase the money wholley he’d be heading to France. From Braid’s comments also suspect his partner (I don’t know what she does) had something to do with it.
True Tah said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
Greg,
one thing with Ezra Taylor, I remember reading one of the reasons he chose the Reds is because his partner got a professional basketball contract in Brisbane.
I hope he produces the goods for the Reds, they have had a few lean years and I reckon with Mooney at the helm, they are turning things around, but one position where I think Australia is spoilt for choice is in the backrow, put it this way, if Ezra Taylor is picked for the Wallabies, it would reflect poorly on our backrow talent (or lack thereof).
Braid is a underrated player, he is a good signing for the Reds and agreed it shows that the Reds are cleaning up their act.
AllBlackfan said | October 7th 2008 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
Reds cleaning up, True Tah? I think it reflects their lack of depth.
What happens if Braid gets injured for a period of time? Who’s his back up?
True Tah said | October 7th 2008 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
ABF,
I was trying to be positive on this! For years, the Reds have been bleeding their best players to NSW, ACT and WA, and they hit rock bottom in 2007.
mudskipper said | October 8th 2008 @ 10:59am | Report comment
The Reds real problem is they can’t hold onto their own talent.
Bring Back Melon said | October 9th 2008 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
The way I see this is that it only increases the number of New Zealanders playing Super 14, giving more NZ players exposuree to a fairly high standard of rugby and therefore increases the already great depth NZ has in rugby talent.
You NZers are like sharks teeth – when one falls, there is always another lined up behind it just as sharp. It’s when you run out of these backups that things become a problem… and I don’t think that’s going to happen.
If anything, doesn’t this give younger people over there an even greater incentive to want to play? That is, now you can see that there are more opportunities and it can lead to opportunities to earn a living all over the world.
I think part of the problem in Australia has been that if a player doesn’t make it into Super rugby pretty soon after school then they just sort of fade away and there are so few opportunities to break into a Super team. So we are developing this talent from a young age and then at times watching some good talent wither on the vine.
Benjamin said | October 9th 2008 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
That’s not strictly true. European rugby is full of Australians. You only have to look at how Brock James has developed to see how many potential good players are available were the Super teams and the ARU to get their act together.
AllBlackfan said | October 10th 2008 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Melon, I think you’re missing the bigger picture.
NZ’s population is only 4 million; given the current demand on NZ players, this is a well of talent that will dry up sooner rather then later. While the NZRFU can also draw on the Pacific Islands, it’s worth noting that the Islands are drawing interest from Australia, South Africa (lately), the NRL and even the AFL (?!?!?).
(Take a look at the playesr wanted page in any issue of Rugby News; see what kind of demand there is for even B grade players in Europe and the deals they are offering!)
We are also talking about world-class talent; we need to develop a new Richie McCaw, a new Dan Carter or Carl Hayman. It’s not enough to have a player who’s of international standard; we need world beaters if the ABs are to remain the benchmark, or even world competitive. (Let’s not forget our WC failings!!)
Granted, there is depth in NZ rugby but that depth is fragile, especially given the recent reports of Australian franchises trying to lure young Kiwi players.
Bring Back Melon said | October 10th 2008 @ 11:42am | Report comment
Allblackfan: I know. I’m being perhaps a little tongue in cheek.
But, since I’m a die-hard aussie, I hope you can forgive me though if I’ve more tears to shed over Australian rugby and its problems than NZ rugby and theirs.
Although I acknowledge the counter-argument for this – i.e. that Oz rugby is strengthened by having a strong NZ across the ditch and that parochial thinking is short-term thinking.
Nick (KIA) said | October 10th 2008 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Melon,
I think you are proven correct to some extent this time – Josh Blackie (former Highlander) has been signed to play for the Blues next year. He’s been playing in Japan for a year, and, as long as he comes back as good as he was when he left then he’s a step up from Braid IMHO.