By Millster
October 7th 2008 @ 12:35am
Loading ...SBS is finally right about the A-League
Scanning the football websites this weekend made me smile. And it was an SBS article about the A-League, in particular, that was responsible for bringing on that smile - surprising if discussions over the past year have any basis in truth.
I think the analysis in article is spot on.
While, as a Sydney fan, I have been frustrated that markedly better and more intelligent play through defence and midfield has not always resulted in the goals that it deserved this year, it is true that my overwhelming feeling sitting at the SFS on Saturday was one of pride and one that the overall standard of the A-League was rising - slowly but surely.
Even had Sydney not scored their last-gasp equaliser, it had been one of the more pleasing games from both clubs that I have witnessed.
The same can be said for passages of play from many teams this season.
Second, of course, is that the comment came from SBS.
Now, I am not a fan at all of every media outlet being an unquestioning cheersquad for the HAL and I don’t mind the dynamic tension between Fox, SBS and the Fairfax guys as long as it is constructive and fair.
And fair is what this article was.
SBS have long been calling for a passing game, an intelligent build-up, and a reduction of long ball tactics. They saw this style on show at the SFS over the weekend, and they applauded it.
This to me is consistent and mature, and a real positive for the game.
It shows that while all players have their opinions on how the code should develop, we cannot forget the underlying goodwill and desire for growth and success.
Well done Sydney and Queensland. And well done SBS for recognising this genuinely good game.
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dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 6:48am | Report comment
Hmm perhaps Craig Foster owes Kosmina an apology. I remember a year a go during a shootout where he said that Kosmina was a good motivator and has a mentality that Australian players can respond to but he should hire a dutch assistant manager who should take over tactical and organisation side of things as Kosmina has shown he wasn’t able to have his side play in an intelligent way. Or at the very least he should admit that Kosmina has improve as a manager.
With this article Philip Micallef was never accused of anti-Aleague bias and his views are quite different to the rest of SBS. In fact he wrote one of the most anti-SBS football ideology praising the notion of winning ugly. It would have been more symbolic if a Les Murray or a Craig Foster wrote an article like this then someone like Phillip Micallef who never really was an outspoken A-league critic (or at least a high profile one).
Although slowly there is a few concession from the SBs gang. Craig Foster very briefly mention that Central Coast improved their style of football due to Caceres joing the club. Also he praise Adelaide Asian adventures saying that their style of football has improve dramatically since the group stages where Adelaide were largely defensive and say the Kashima legs was one of the best performance he seen from adelaide. Then there is the Melbourne Victory compliments that he has done for the past 3 seasons. Surprisingly I haven’t heard a queensland roar praise yet like he done in the first 3 seasons but I’m sure that will come later. I would like him to see him praise the Scottish Charlie Miller who could possibly by the signing of the year. That would be very interesting hearing that.
Millster said | October 7th 2008 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Just an an additional note - my original article was entitled “credit where credit is due” which is a bit less inflamatory a title than the one chosen by the editors! I certainly don’t think its right to say SBS have anything FINALLY right, as they have had many things right all along… so please sorry for any unintended insult to SBS fans or associates from the change of title which was not my choosing.
The Bear said | October 7th 2008 @ 8:52am | Report comment
LOL.
Graciously,
The Bear
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 10:16am | Report comment
Sydney FC, the Arsenal of the A-League
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 10:18am | Report comment
Adelaide will be the Man U. They will get the treble this year
oikee said | October 7th 2008 @ 10:20am | Report comment
No worries millster, being a queenslander i will take your thanks for even mentioning queensland, and i still stand behind my remarks that queensland will be the forefront of the game, our unabashed healthy hatred for anything south of the border will keep the game in good stead. With the new teams coming into the game this will only grow the popularity of the game here in queensland.
The one thing nobody can deny is the fact that not only is there growth in football, but also other codes now looking to queensland for growth. So within lets say 5 years there would have been 5 new teams that have made queensland there home in all the codes, this figure might rise as the growth continues, show me a state that can produce this amount of growth and i will admit defeat.
Also to bolster my perceived vision of all this happening is the fact that infrastucture is already being laid to allow for the Commonwealth games bid for 2018 (goldcoast)which in affect should have a possitive result for the olimpic games (brisbane) bid for 2025-30. This will all be acheived in a world econimic down-turn, along with the new teams from every code now wanting a slice of the action, so this is why you see anyone who is anyone getting into queensland. This is where its at over the next 20 odd years. Unforetunately Sydney and Melbourne will stuggle because of there too many teams in one city problem which will continue to stiffle there growth. I am not knocking there cities, its just how it has happened over the years, queensland are in the best position because they have limited teams. Perth will also be in a good position for growth.
Great news for the poms at the moment, the aussie dollar has fallen so they now get nearly 2 and half dollars to the pound.
Millster said | October 7th 2008 @ 10:53am | Report comment
Oikee - absolutely yes I mentioned Queensland., and absolutely yes they are at the forefront of the game The Roar is a very interesting team that has 3 dimensions - some of the ‘best’ of the old gritty style of Aussie play in Moore and Tiatto, some of the best of the young domestic talent that is really exciting in Zullo and 2 or 3 others, and also a knack for some interesting foreign signings. So while I focused a bit on SFC due to my being a supporter, yes QLD deserve a ton of credit for the game too and for the overall quality and development of their team. In the A-League actually, though a SYD-MEL derby is the huge emotion-filled event it is in fact games against QLD and Adelaide that I think are often the most interesting as they are 2 very good clubs. And of course Gold Coast (and to a lesser extent Townsville) will be a very interesting addition to the mix.
I happen to agree with you also about Perth. And I am so worried that a team that should be successful is doing so poorly. Perth HAS to be a pillar of the A-League, and surely if the Glory can get their act together then the code will be strong. In fact, on fundamentals, there is no reason why Perth can’t have a second (maybe Fremantle) team in a few years based on wealth and demographics and community interest in football. But this so badly and desperately relies on Perth getting their shit together. If I was Ben Buckley this would be my biggest headache and nightmare at the moment.
oikee said | October 7th 2008 @ 11:11am | Report comment
I have mentioned this many times, and i will say it again, not because its wishful thinking but because it goes hand in hand, a rugby league team added to perth will do the world of good for the glory, they can feed off each others success and also create more rivalry for each other to kick arse in the other states.
If you could imagine a broncos team headed across to perth to give it to them, and then the roar mob also going their along with the titans and galaxy makes for mouth watering stuff. Take a look at how the broncos are received in melbourne and look at the crowd figures for these games, once they get that mongrel attatude going it would not take long to have good heathy rivalry there, but i think that the two codes create good tension. Wont take me long to not like perth. Its on par with brisbane so they will puff there chest and think there better.
oikee said | October 7th 2008 @ 11:19am | Report comment
Wont take long for the gold coast team to piss-off sydney and melbourne, with the new owner he will have that team at the top so to speak, and all the focus will be with the galaxy. And then the roar will want to beat the living shite outta them, so your rivalry will then be focused on suncorp, the best in oz, and as we queenslanders know, the best in the world. Sorry kaola, brisbane never plays second fiddle to the coast.
oikee said | October 7th 2008 @ 11:22am | Report comment
Look at that, i dont like the galaxy already and they haven’t even played a game yet, bring it on.!!!!!
oikee said | October 7th 2008 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Koala Bear said | October 7th 2008 @ 11:35am | Report comment
Millster,
another good interesting article and I do not mind a long ball now and then.. I would ask the Football Family to reflect on the good long balls they have seen that resulted in some incredible goals .. I still maintain there is a place for the occasional long ball. I can remember so beauties .. In defense of the long ball
1) at the SFS in the Gold Cup Final 1988 a diagonal cross from the left wing to a rampage Romareo down the centre of the field and a first time half volley into the back of the Socceroo net..
2) a left sided cross by Ned Zelic to the right wing for Tony Vidmar to hit straight back to his brother on a counter attack against the run of play for Aurelio Vidmar to turn into the Argentine net during the WC qualifier at the SFS..
3) Harry Kewell left foot volley on the run playing for Leeds; the ball coming from the central defender, dropping over his right shoulder bouncing once and hitting it on the drop and just about tore the net down..
4) Harry Kewell playing for Liverpool sitting on the left just wide of the left post hitting the ball with a first time volley from a cross from the right wing (his best goal imo)
5) Bresh’s goal at the MCG (?) with a long ball over to Mile Sledjeski who ran it down then a first time long ball back across the face of the goal to Bresh reaching back horizontally for a reflex volley into the net…
Yes, I don’t mind a good long ball when it comes off.. It can make for some truly spectacular goals.. We always hear from a number of people criticizing the bad long ball and we hardly hear of the well executed long balls that result in spectacular goals ..
~~~~~~~~
KB
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
KB
Unfortunately well executed long balls often = luck
Its great to see it come off but it’s not exactly controlling your own destiny.
In any case I think some of the example mention were crosses into the box. I don’t think people consider that long balls. I thought long balls are defender/keeper kicking the ball long which cause the forward to chase the ball (if its the reverse where the forward makes a run and the player at the back does a long pass then it is not long ball but a good pass) and they ended up winning the ball and creating or scoring a goal. Usually good build up plays then leads to a position where the player can cross to score.
Unless you are mentioning long ball to the winger who then cross into the box.
Millster said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
Actually KB though my bias is generally for the intricate on the grass stuff, you do put up a valid point.
Not so long ago I read a long editorial in an English paper while on business in Europe which analysed the number of passes from defence to the scoring of a goal. Not only in the UK but across a selection of major continental leagues. Much to my chagrin, this analysis proved the direct long ball to be an overwhelmingly effective weapon in football.
I guess the aim is not to despise it but just to hope for its intelligent and balanced use.
Vicentin said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
KB, some nice moments there. Even I will admit there is nothing wrong with the long ball ball when the ratio of long ball to carefully measured passes is something like one to 1 : 15. The thing that is really misleading about highlights packages or compilations of stunning 40 metre strikes by Liverpool’s Stevie Me (or Roberto Carlos) is that they don’t show you all the ones that didn’t hit the back of the net and ended up in Row ZZ! And of the subject of Stevie Me for every 40 metre pass he nails how many does he competely waste? - he’s no Platini (or even Alonso) there.
cheers
Vicentin said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
Millster, if I remember that was a very selective analysis. Bottom line was yes, the majority of goals only involve three passes (or similar) but if you actually aim to play that way ….forget it, it no longer adds up. I think Mr Foster commented on that same report on the TWG or in a “Shootout” from the website.
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:05pm | Report comment
Actually, to execute a long accurate pass that bypasses the midfield and defenders, as well as for a striker to then control the ball, or even volley it, and score is far more technically difficult than a short passing game, on an individual level.
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
Vicentin, …or even Lampard
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
Millster
Foster touch on that issue here. http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blogs/craigfoster/knowledge-is-king-119834/
The general gist of the article
Majority of goals in modern football are scored in 6 or less passes and yet teams that try to play that way all the time will generally lose. The secret is when do you do the long ball/pass. He is saying that good teams play possession football majority of the match and then wait for the right moment to speedly counteract and score a goal with minimum amount of passes.
Millster said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
In fact DaSilva one can see that in effect whenever Crouch is on for England or to a lesser extent Kennedy for Australia. An opposition defence HAS to cover those types of players in case the long ball does come, and this then opens the park up to more of a passing style of play. So its almost a case that threatening the long-ball tactic can paradoxically lead to more success in the short-pass style if used properly. But if the ball is just pinged up 100% of the time, the defence gets stacked and the effectiveness of the tactic is dissolved.
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
SJ
I think that really counts as a long ball per se. If a striker makes a run and a defender/goalie makes a pass that bypass the midfield and reach the striker then yes that is very skillful. but people don’t really consider that long ball football. if it is long ball football then people like fozzie would hate players like pirlo, beckham who do excellent long passes all the time
What people generally mean by long ball football is when the defender kicks it long and then the striker then chases the ball. That is very much luck.
Vicentin said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
SJ I deliberately left him out because I thought you’d have the filters on … I’m not his greatest fan but I like him a helluva lot more than Gerrard whose truely wonderful moments completely bliind people to the fact that most of the time he is excruciateling woeful. Lampard appears to be in very good form at present, nice turn and pass on the weekend for (insert name)’s goal.
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Even with the likes of Crouch and Kennedy. Generally they will be used more effectively if it is a short pass build up play or a counterattack that leads to the winger or full back who then cross in the box to the tall striker rather then a long ball straight from defence to the striker.
I understand that it can be effective. I’ve seen enough goals to see it sometimes work. Nevertheless if you have the skills to get into the position to cross the ball into the tall striker. That game play will almost always be more effective then a long punt from defence.
Pippinu said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
I personally don’t like the indiscriminate use of the descriptor “long ball” to pretty much describe any mob who hasn’t got much of a clue - because the use of the descriptor is generally borne of laziness rather than real analysis.
As an example, MV fails to score against the Roar, and it’s because they’ve fallen back to a long ball game (rather than people working out why Carlos and Lopez were seeing less of the ball all of a sudden, failing to factor in the Roar’s own role in that). MV trounce some mob, and all of a sudden it’s a precise, creative passing game.
The truth is always a lot more complicated than either of these extremities (if they indeed are extremities - and I would also argue on that that too is simplistic).
jimbo said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
In the post match interview on Fox, Kosmina was complaining that his side didn’t listen to him and didn’t play the long ball often enough.
He told them that the Roar midfield was marking too tightly and that they should put in more through balls to Bridge and Aloisi.
Vicentin said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
Jimbo - relying on Aloisi’s first touch? Now that is high risk football - though to be fair he did used to score some pretty spectacular volleys in the old days. Some of the reports I’ve suggested they kept on trying to put it on Aloisi’s head and that Moore had that completely covered and considering that Aloisi isn’t that quick on the deck either over a longer distance I’m not sure how long balls in his general direction would have helped here … but then again I find it healthier not to try and think like Kossie.
Millster said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Pippinu - a point excellently put. There is a big difference between a surgical long ball that fits the current state of play (whether from the defense or the wing) and a team that just belts it up there regardless. I don’t think anyone is arguing here against the intelligent long ball. Just the indiscriminate use of it as a last resort for teams that have no other ideas.
jimbo said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
Vicentin,
have to agree with you and while a SFC fan I have serious doubts about Kosmina’s football coaching abilities particularly his tactical nouse.
Craig Moore was head and shoulders above Aloisi (literally) and the young lad Matt Mundy plucked from the Youth League was so good you didn’t even notice Bridge was on the field.
Maybe Kosmina could train his lazy fat forwards and midfielders a bit harder and get them to do some more running and create some space for themselves.
He should drop Aloisi and Bridge for Santalab and Brosque up front and make Bridge and Aloisi try a lot harder and win their positions back.
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
Pippinu
You are right
Sides generally don’t go out there to deliberately play long ball football. They are sometimes forced to play that way by teams who are well organised. Teams that block supply of the ball to midfielders and ensuring midfielders have limited space and time to play the ball through often has to rely on long balls to create any chance as they can’t build up play from the back. It is often good coaching, tactics, organisation to forced the opposing team to rely on long balls that is often overlooked.
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
dasilva, thanks for that link I was trying to find that excellent article from Foster several weeks ago and couldn’t find it for the life of me (I think the FFFA were suppressing football information as part of the conspiracy).
One of my favourite personal goals was from a extremely long throw out to the left wing from the keeper (Gomez style!) that dropped sweetly over my shoulder, and I volleyed into the top right corner - that was the first goal of a 3-1 win for our team in a grand final. Ah, memories…
NUFCMVFC said | October 7th 2008 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
Generally I agree, I think the standard is rising, thanks in p[art ot more refined recruiting practices which has led to a better selction of imports, so we are having more hits than misses and they have the skill to be able to unlock defences. What is interesting is that this had come without any big name marquees, but I think this will change will Gold Coast planning to utilise guest stint. Hopefully then we have a good balance between a good selection of imports and a good marquee
What we notice now is that the teams in the top 3 or so of the table, Melbourne and Sydney and perhaps Adelaide and Queensland, do seem to be up there thanks to some good football, whereas in season 1 it was Adelaide under Kosmina who ran away with the Premiers plate but did so via some generally unattractive play
Sydney played some good inter passing play I recall in the early game against CCM, as an article on this forum alludes to, they seem to be struggling to fit Aloisi into their system, or design their system to play to his strengths
Koala Bear said | October 7th 2008 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Slippery Jim,
what about your missed opportunity that hit the inside of one post to rebound to the other then hitting underneath the cross bar and back into the field of play … Ha, Ha, yes indeed, I do remember you wanting a 1pter for the miss in AFTL terms for that one..
Of course, I on the other hand, have scored countless of own goals during my illustrious career ..
Well back to the long ball discussion.. Yes one and all, we all agree that possession is the name of the game. Short passing etc.. I was just wanting to reflect on those wonderful moments that I witnessed over the years, that ended up in the back of the net ..
It seems to me we have lost the true exponents of the long ball; the likes of Bobby Moore, Franz Beckenbauer, Giles, Platini, and of course Lampard (Vicentin) many more that I have not named of the old brigade.. I think now the time has come we need to give out licences to only those who can do it on a regular basis..
And if you are caught trying to attempt one without your “FFFA long ball licence” you should be red carded immediately.. that should fix that lot up down south of the border..
Btw Pippinu do you know any good long ball jokes …? Just to get off those conspiracy theories of yours ….
~~~~~~~~
KB
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
Never mind KB, Lord Lampard’s first goal according to his autobiography (a great read BTW) in competitive football was an own goal - he went on the pitch, realized he had the ball at his feet and shot at the net in front of him, scored and realised to his horror that he was in defence!
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
He was about six by the way…
Con Stamocostas said | October 7th 2008 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
I would like to see Kossie use war analogies.
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
KB, I have come across this delightful link on the Flog posted by Cheech.
While its best to keep it away from Dave, it shows the Club world rankings, with Chelsea at no. 1 in the world…of course
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Now that the suspense has had time to build, here is the link:
http://iffhs.de/?10f42e00fa2d17f73702fa3016e23c17f7370eff3702bb1c2bbb6f28f53512
Dave said | October 7th 2008 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
SJ
Loved the link…it showed ManU on top of the rankings
please post more 
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 5:37pm | Report comment
Equal top, Dave, equal top, don’t get too excited (besides this list places Adelaide Utd 57 places above Middlesborough and 91 above West Ham, so pffft!)
Since you asked for more links, Dave:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficients#Club_coefficient
Man Utd in sixth place in Europe, behind Liverpool and Arsenal…oh and Chelsea, who are first of course
Koala Bear said | October 7th 2008 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
Dave,
don’t underestimate my man Slippery Jim… Give him a day or two and he’ll find some dirt on Man U; to catapult the Chelsea above your mob… Maybe a red card.. there’s bound to be something ..
~~~~~~~
KB
Dave said | October 7th 2008 @ 8:57pm | Report comment
KB
I hope he finds more dirt where he found that table
:). ManU looking better and better with every link 
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 9:20pm | Report comment
Dave, don’t worry I have posted a reply several hours ago with links aplenty, just have to wait for the editors to come back to the office to OK the link…watch this space young feller me lad!
Koala Bear said | October 7th 2008 @ 9:31pm | Report comment
Dave,
hmm interesting to note, as we both know, we need to except that, information is only binding when officially recorded ie when it appears officially as the most current records shown to date; the “Special One” is way out in front of Alex. Therefore, as this being the latest recorded official data. the Chelsea have suddenly leaped frogged your mob..
Yes I know, 2007 was your year.. However, it has not been officially recorded as you can see.. The records only show up to 2006; the referee’s decision on this matter is final until it is updated..
And who knows when that will be ..?
http://iffhs.de/?d443d0b45fdcc02fccad5e99a54505fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedb8a3f1e
~~~~~~~
KB
keeper11 said | October 7th 2008 @ 10:43pm | Report comment
Millstersaid;
”
Now, I am not a fan at all of every media outlet being an unquestioning cheersquad for the HAL ..”
Mate…but the NRL and its mates in the sydney media …
at News-limted, Ch9, ch7, 2ue, 2gb. 2ky , 2MMM, Roy Masters etc etc haven’t got the slightest problem playing the role of unquestioning cheersquad , propogandist and ‘gurdian’ for ‘our’ sydney game against ‘rival’ codes………
this is strayan commercial media…thats how its done….!
Millster said | October 8th 2008 @ 11:12pm | Report comment
Going back to the previous discussion about long-ball tactics, it is ironic that (according to the ABC news site) Aurelio Vidmar told Adelaide United at half-time to play long balls into the box. At that stage they were at a fragile looking 0-0 stalemate. They famously ran out to an unexpected 3-0 win. And Aurelio is looking like a legend right now.
Despite our advanced senses of footballing aesthetics, would any of us give that result back in favour of a sexier, less direct tactical choice from the Reds? I think not
dasilva said | October 9th 2008 @ 1:10am | Report comment
No but we should be unhappy if we don’t achieve both. Results and style. We should be dissatisfied and wanting more if we win ugly or lose pretty. We should have a high standard that we go to every match expecting to win in style and won’t be satisfied with anything less.
I just remember my friend sitting next to me saying this is boring after the first half. I guess sometimes you have to look beyond watching a game just from a fans perspective. I don’t think the style of football Adelaide played that night will convert anyone to watch Football or encourage someone to watch the A-league if they are fans of European football.
Although saying that the 3 goals Adelaide Utd were all classy goals and weren’t achieve by playing hoof football despite playing direct for most of the match and my friend walked away relatively happy.
Right now - screw long term and broad issue. We are one match away from qualifying to Club World Championship and I’m absolutely ecstatic.
Midfielder said | October 9th 2008 @ 6:27am | Report comment
Dasilva
I am starting to get the feeling that some people and you are striking me as one want something and every time you see a 20 meter pass ……… you think long ball shit play …its like unless its perfect south amercian its crap…its like a short passing south amercian game is the only game thats worth watching ……….. well IMO its not and if you ever go to south america you will see lots of diving lots of abuse of officals lots of shirt pulling lots of play acting …… do you want that part as well.
Heavens in a league thats so new and for for a team with a budget 1 / 20 of the other to win, sHOWS how good the A-League is …………. I agree its not Champions league with the top 600 or so players out of the 280 million playing …………BUT ITS NOT BAD EITHER
dasilva said | October 9th 2008 @ 7:54am | Report comment
Relax Midfielder
If I was type of fan who only expect Champions LEague quality football then I wouldn’t be following Adelaide, A-league Soccerroos etc. in fact I have little time to follow other europeans league and only do so sparingly.
I can actually enjoy a game of football that’s direct, physical and your team grinding out a victory against technically superiour opponents. Hell if I enjoy how Adelaide play in the ACL group stages I can enjoy anything. However that’s me as a fan of the team. However I can’t ignore the fact that inviting my friend to this match and for 2/3 of the match was quite bored. I wasn’t but he was someone that we would want to convert to become A-league supporter. That’s why I think style is important.
So as a fan of Adelaide I was ecstatic. As a football fan somewhere in the back of my head telling me that Adelaide can play better and should put able to put in a better show (not expecting perfect football but the style of football Adelaide capable of playing)
Yes I aslo recognise that other leagues cultures has there own problem. No one suggesting indiscriminate copying of other leagues. Just merge goods parts of other cultures to the good parts of our culture.
In any case my opening statement about we shouldn’t be satisfied with just a victory. I’m having a hard time convincing myself to believe that as well and in the end if it was my team in question I probably have a weighting of about 90% result 10% style in how I enjoy the game. However I’m recognise that’s just me being selfish and I believe that ideally a club should have that philosophy.
dasilva said | October 9th 2008 @ 7:59am | Report comment
every time you see a 20 meter pass ……… you think long ball shit play
I think I clarified before in another post. Depends on what type of pass. Was it hit or hope. Or did the midfielder see a run and pass to the player. Hell if any 20 meter pass was hated then the likes of Fozzy and co would hate Andrea Pirlo who do it a lot.
In any case it’s inevitable that a team will do a long ball in the match. Hell even Barcelona does it sometimes. It’s just whether the team relies on it too win or not and how much do they play it whether I support a side as a neutral supporter.
Pippinu said | October 9th 2008 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Millster
yes - saw and heard that last night and my ears pricked up!
But to be honest, none of Adelaide’s goals came from what you might call a classic “long ball” (not that I can remember).
Cassio was involved in all three goals, and almost scored a fourth when he forced a good save from the keeper who was way off his line. Diego scored the first from a nice cross from Cassio (with a hint of handball to bring the ball down); and then Diego freed up Cassio with a deft touch to set up the 2nd (nice leap from Dodd, could almost have been pulled up for a foul himself).
In short, the win came because:
1. AU have developed a knack for constricting the space in their own half for these Asian sides such that they are barely able to create a single worthwhile chance;
2. Cassio found a bit of time and space with some good combination work with team mates in a 20 minute period that had poor ol’ Zico gasping for air (on the sidelines); and
3. let’s not beat around the bush here, Rivaldo was a waste of space and a liability.
A 34 year old Juninho looked much better last year than this 36 year old version of Rivaldo.
Pippinu said | October 9th 2008 @ 8:27am | Report comment
Oh - and it looks like AU will be heading for the world club championships - the ignominy of it all!!
Midfielder said | October 9th 2008 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Watched the Ch 7 & 9 news this morning ……….. amazing both AFL & NRl had stories as did cricket they showed the match as the last of the Australian sports part and then only brief parts 20 seconds tops ………. 2UE are not reporting the result …….. still a long way to go to get media coverage ……….
Millster said | October 9th 2008 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Midfielder - I just have to laugh at our mainstream media. I utterly agree with them being cheer-squads for the entrenched AFL, NRL and Cricket interests.
At least I draw some solace from the same being true of the front page as the back. Just a couple of days ago I picked up the Telegraph (rare event!), as I was going to read it on the plane - its a more manageable size, and I had already read the Fin Review. As you’d know, we’re talking about a period of unprecedented financial crisis, a critical US election, approval being given for BHPs takeover of Rio, problems from a resurgent Russia, riots in Bangkok, political change in Japan, miltary strategy void in Afghanistan… anyway you get the picture, there is no shortage of vitally important news to report currently. Yet what was on the front page, with more on pages 4-5, but some lightweight story about a voluntary code of conduct for modelling agencies with regard to model weight and health standards.
Same story with Today and Sunrise on the TV networks which used to be great morning serious news program 10 years ago but are now dominated by human interest stories and hollywood gossip - the program almost apologise now when they go to their hourly grab (and its only a couple of minutes) of real news.
I’ve met Steve Liebman a few times including once notably at a dinner where much wine was served and he gave me a great insight into just how disgusted and humilated sections of the Australian journalistic community are at the tripe that their programs and columns have become.
Anyway I know I’m on my soapbox but my point is that if the front 2/3 of our popular papers and TV news programs have become nothing more than gossip-magazine type infomercials then we can’t expect cutting, relevant, globally aware journalism to be spread over all our sporting pages.
dasilva said | October 9th 2008 @ 10:04am | Report comment
To clarify some of my point even further about the style vs result debate
My belief is that it should be the aim of all Football fans in Australia to become the number 1 sport and sometimes this overrides the joy of grinding results. This means we want our team to do well and get results but also play footbal in an attacking entertaining way that make people in this country fall in love with the game (in Australia we need all the fans we can get). I’ll absolutely sure that if the Soccerroos played in the world cup 2006 with defensive football with 11 man behind the ball and also engage in unsportmanship behaviour and got the same result then football would have went backwards in this country in terms of winning the hearts and mind and establishing ourselves as the number 1 national team. The way we play in Germany was just as important as the fact we reach the knockout stages.
Now if Adelaide United and Soccerroos start to degrade into physical direct, long ball defensive football. I’ll still support my team to the end but I will not be reccommending anyone to go watch the game or encouraging people to follow a-league etc because for those people who aren’t fans of a team - winning is not enough.
By the way - it was still a great night and Adelaide played some classy football toward the end. My concern about the style of play that day is only a minor one. Don’t think I’m a party pooper who’s see negative in anything. Everyone attended that match walked home happy including myself and my friend.
Millster said | October 9th 2008 @ 10:38am | Report comment
I’m not so sure dasilva. Maybe I take a bleaker view of the Australian public.
But I think that most new adopters to football would prefer the result over style when it all comes down to it. I think our tradition in a set of sports where we are the big fish in a very small pond (the only fish in the pond in some instances) means that success is defined as winning a championship. People don’t think too much about the depth of opposition or the credibility of the competition in my opinion; as long as they are number 1 in whatever it is thats fine.
So to me it’s a big leap to tell people they should turn to football because we have risen from a natural level of around 50th in the world to one around 30th in the world, on the back of a nicer style of play. To me its a far more amazing achievement than to be number 1 in a small sport. But many don’t think that way. So while I, like you, prefer aesthetic football and can appreciate a good passage of play even if it breaks down, I do think that the progress of the game in Australia is dependent primarily on results not style.
Of course my selfish hope is that we can have our cake and eat it too - develop a stylish, technically proficient playing strategy that also yields success on the scoreboard.
Redb said | October 9th 2008 @ 10:45am | Report comment
Millster,
Your heading down an unrealistic and bitter line of reasoning in my opinion. In short, Sydney’s airport is about 11km out of the CBD get onto Southern Cross Drive and look for terminal 1.
Redb
Millster said | October 9th 2008 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Redb - my job keeps me well aware of where Sydney airport is, thanks for the reminder though ; -)
And fortunately there are a few enlightened souls that do keep me bonded to this country, plus the signs that the tide is ever so slowly (but definitely) turning.
Seriously do you not agree? Do you not think that we have been conditioned - largely through playing sports typefied by limited competition (including in some instances in sport regarded much more as ‘top tier’ here than they are even in the homelands of our traditional foes - eg cricket and rugby in England) - to expect victory and not be so interested when we are not number 1? I thought my point was correct and self-evident, even though perhaps a bit of a harsh truth… That said I am not bitter about anything… being here allows me to easily enjoy BOTH the meaningless and the meaningful parts of sports great smorasbord.
Pippinu said | October 9th 2008 @ 11:23am | Report comment
America is probably the biggest sports market in the World bar none, and their top 4 in no particular order is: football, basketball, baseball and hockey (as they call them).
Now we can all come up with derogatory remarks to explain away why they don’t give a tinker’s cuss for the world game, but that wouldn’t change the facts.
Similarly, I don’t think there is any merit in putting a negative spin on the fact that the average Australian has never even heard of Uzbekistan, let alone that we recently played against them in a WC qualifier, and Adelaide played one of their top clubs last night.
Last night might be big, or it might end up being as important as when Australia defeated India 6-1 to take out the World hockey championship in the early 80s (that’s field hockey, by the way).
Who can truly judge what deserves to be massive and what doesn’t?
Redb said | October 9th 2008 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Milster,
Considering football codes historic boundaries from Gridiron in the US to soccer in Europe, AFL in Australia, rugby in NZ, Canadain football,etc. These are incumbent codes at various strengths based on population and migration patterns.
We’ve already establsihed that many soccer fans shun the A League becuase it lacks the Greek, Italian, Spanish influences those of that nationality yearn. Its about who you are and where you came from. The type of football is almost irrelevant on many levels to the connection we have with it.
Your arguments border on suggesting all other codes should pack up the oranges and disappear in Australia because the depth is not there. Good luck with that, if you live in the US and haven’t killed your stockbroker yet, you don’t care that the Green Bay Packers play in a country with only 300 million people compared to Europe, Asia and Africa’s attachment to soccer.
What you have to ask yourself is what if rugby union was the dominant and deepest football code in the rest of the world, would you give up your beloved futbol just because rugby is a bigger game?
Redb
True Tah said | October 9th 2008 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Pippinu,
Im sure most Australians have heard of Uzbekistan, whilst they may be unable to point it out on a map.
I think people are getting a bit carried away with Adelaide beating a side from a developing country - still I think its a huge achievement getting this far and people of Adelaide have a right to be excited (plus they will be wealthy after winning it), but since when does Australia end at the borders of South Australia? It counts for less than 10% of our population.
I know South Australians tend to be a parochial lot (one premier famously quipped that South Australia might be forced to import wheat from Australia!), but more futbol fans in Sydney would be more interested in the EPL than Adelaide’s success against Asian opposition.
Pippinu said | October 9th 2008 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
TT
your faith in the average Australian’s knowledge of world geography is heart warming.
Redb said | October 9th 2008 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
True Tah,
I posted yesterday that Adelaide’s ACL win was big news in Adelaide but unless it involves a Sydney or Melbourne it will not hit the radar nationally. So its a little odd that Midflielder and Millster come out today and bemoan the lack of mainstream media coverage - this is how it is.
I find it strange that less than 10,000 turned up to watch Adelaide play on the weekend when 17,000 turned up 4 days later for the ACL game?. How fickle that games between Australian clubs are not important, that would have to be a concern for the FFFA.
Millsters says it all about how big the game is internationally and our domestic sports are meaningless - this attitude is not likely then to hurt the A League?
Redb
True Tah said | October 9th 2008 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
Pip,
I dont think Australians are as insular as we are assumed to be by many, and we are fairly knowledgable on many things.
True Tah said | October 9th 2008 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Redb,
given the tightening of the belt re: discretionary spending for many families in South Australia (economocally a bit behind the other states), I would assume that futbol fans would spend their pennies of the big games.
Hence they would save it up for the ACL rather than the A-League.
Personally I think Adelaide are doing very well for crowds this year, they have a smaller population than Perth and average more.
Redb said | October 9th 2008 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
TT,
Good point. But it wouldnt be hard to beat Perth Glory’s crowds.
As a frequent visitor to Adelaide I can only say it is a very sleepy town, they turn the lights off about 7pm, you could fire a large weapon down the main street without fear of hitting anyone.
There was a news sound btie yesterday in AFL cricles that the Adleaide Crows themselves admit it hard to entice players to live in Adelaide. Melbourne and Sydney are big cities, Perth and Brisbane have sunshine, Adelaide - the tram to Glenelg.
Redb
Redb said | October 9th 2008 @ 12:27pm |