By AFP
October 7th 2008 @ 1:05am
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Socceroos coach blasted by Warnock
Australia coach Pim Verbeek’s claim that Nicky Carle should quit English football to boost his international prospects has drawn an angry response from Crystal Palace manager Neil Warnock.
Verbeek left Palace midfielder Carle out of the provisional Australia squad for their World Cup qualifier against Qatar next Wednesday because he believes the 26-year-old is struggling to [...]
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© 2008 AFP
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dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:28am | Report comment
what about having your assistant watching the game live.
What does it mean you can’t judge while watching the match on TV anyway. Perhaps you miss something that a person would see live but I serious doubt watching a match on TV will miss the fact that Carle had 5 touches on the ball or if the team is playing direct football.
In any case although Pim may have been telling the truth. It may probably be more wise of him to tell Carle in person in private rather then cause a diplomatic incident by sharing his feeling in the media. It doesn’t do Soccerroos any favour by pissing off club manager (then it may not matter how his relationship with Warnock is if Carle is permanently shafted from the Soccerroos)
Then again as a fan it is refreshing to hear a manager talking honestly and not afraid to speak his mind. The SBS interview with Pim was surprisingly informative in the thinking of the man. You sometimes expect interviews with players and coaches go through generic comments about a match. To hear what he thinks of Carle as a player, tells his view about the Carle vs Holman debate, his opinion of Travis Dodd and Musialik. Its far more informative then just “can’t handle the heat”. He may step on toes that might be unnecessary but as a fan of the game I can’t fault much about how he handles the media.
Can’t wait until he sings Australia’s national anthem as he promise Simon Hill. That will be the icing in the cake.
Mick of Newie said | October 7th 2008 @ 7:55am | Report comment
I saw Palace play Ipswich on Fox last week and I was surprisingly pleased with how they tried to play and how involved Nick was. I think Pim might have been better off saying the guys I picked are ahead of Nick rather than this argument, particularly as he is picking players who can’t get a regular game at Colchester and Sheffield United.
The Bear said | October 7th 2008 @ 8:48am | Report comment
Interesting. Mick, that argument would have been paper thin i expect. Pim has said he wants three deep in every position, but by his own tactics, he is intent on by-passing Carle. For the moment.
Graciously,
The Bear
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 9:07am | Report comment
I think with Crystal Palace they sometime play decent football. Other times they hoof it. I remember reading Crystal palace fans opinion of Nick Carle before the Ipswich game saying they think Carle is a good player but was frustrated that their team were not using him effectively due to the style of football. I guess they played differently during the ipswich match. I think Carle was just unlucky to get watch by Henk Duut when Carle was not involve at all.
Pim Verbeek explain about other players in lower division in England getting selected is that we don’t have much depth in left back, central defence and right winger but we are blessed with central midfielders. That’s why Carney, Sterjovski and coyne is selected and Carle isn’t.
In any case Pim made it obvious in the SBS what he doesn’t like about Nick purely as a player and not for the club he plays in. He believes that Nicky carle dribbles too much and doesn’t get the team involve as he should. Pim Verbeek say that Nick thinks that he has to make an “action” all the time (I assume he means dribbling or solo play) during TWG.
Reminds me of Dutch legend Cruijff (you can’t call him a defensive, non-flair player and coach) criticising Messi year or two ago before he became a serious contender of the best player in the world – Messi has become predictable. Every time he had a ball he try to dribble past players. Defenders can adjust for that if you keep on doing that consistently. He says if you have the ball 9 out of 10 times you have to play for your team and pass the ball and try to break down the defence. Only one time out of ten do you play for yourself and try to beat players and have a solo run as doing it sparingly will makes it more effective and more difficult for defenders to adjust as they have more problems predicting your next move.
I guess with Pim. He really values the attributes of team work and versatility the most.
Mart said | October 7th 2008 @ 9:12am | Report comment
Mick – agree 100%. Ok, I’ll admit bias here – I’m a 40 year Palace nut who has resided in Oz fo about half of that now. You can’t argue with Warnock’ comment here. Pim’s comments are really strange – seems to me like he just doesn’t rate Carle ? Fairy Nuff but why go public in the way he has ? Very poor man management, could anyone imagine Aussie Gus doing this ? The net is the Socceroos have a decent amount of depth so Carle probably isn’t and probably won’t be in the equation – in which case keep the trap shut surely ?
Millster said | October 7th 2008 @ 9:44am | Report comment
It is generally true though that players who have seen regular first-team football in Holland, Belgium, Switzerland etc have been able to catch the eye of Socceroo selectors very well – for whatever reasons right or wrong. So without bagging Palace, if Carle can get a regular game there in a league more suited to his style then it makes sense to me that he should consider that quite seriously.
Mick of Newie said | October 7th 2008 @ 9:50am | Report comment
What is annoying is that his game has changed. At Newcastle he played in front of 2 holding midfielders and the game plan was built around Nick getting the ball at the top of the box and doing his stuff to release Bridge, Griffiths or Rodriguez. The Carle at Bristol and now at Palace is playing in a 4 man midfield and he is working his socks off and playing a simpler game. His value is that he still has that quality when it is required.
I was a bit annoyed that Craig Foster asked the question about Nick and Holman on TWG. It appears to me to be almost a point of principal now for Pim, the more he is asked about Nick the more he says about what he doesn’t like. Which is unfortunate for Nick as everything he says is class, that he wants to play, that he is disappointed but that he will continue to work hard on his game.
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Mart, he is typically Dutch in that he likes to speak his mind and can be quite blunt about it.
I find it odd that other people constantly whinge about Arnold not speaking to the media and then criticize Pim for publicly explaining his decisions to the media.
I love Pims off the cuff remark on SBS when he was told the whole country was behind him, somthing like “thats a nice surprise.” I sense he was having a sly dig at the critical media.
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 9:53am | Report comment
The problem with Carle moving to another club is this.
Nick Carle is playing regularly with the support of his manager, fans and club. Should Carle take a risk and move clubs which is always risky as he may lose his guarantee start that he has won with Crystal Palace? That will be more disasterous then staying here at Crystal Palace.
Also part of the reason why he left turkey is because his family had trouble adjusting in their culture (as well as army style boot camp). The fact that they settle in an English speaking country and that Carle’s priority is his family over his soccerroo career (This is not a criticism. It’s fair enough to have that priority). So he may actually damage his relationship with his family by moving to a continental country.
The only option I see for Carle is to play the best football he can and get picked up by premier league side.
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 10:04am | Report comment
I agree Slippery Jim.
I don’t necessarily agree with Pim either about Carle but I love the fact he is honest about it.
I notice that Pim no longer mention that Carle doesn’t work hard anymore. I don’t think that is the issue with Nick Carle. To be honest I think Pim is judging by what he saw in training session where Carle tried to dribble too much perhaps out of overeagerness to impress when he should have kept it simple.
in any case the fact is that Carle hasn’t really been bringing the assist and killer balls regularly yet for Bristol City or Crystal Palace yet. He is certainly capable of doing that in A-league (he still remains the most memorable player of the A-league for me) but he hasn’t quite shown that yet in England. I hope he does.
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 10:16am | Report comment
Mick
I seriously doubt that Pim is not going to pick Carle because Foster, Simon Hill, Cockerill, Slater, Fink has tried to talk up about nicky Carle. To suggest otherwise would be saying he is unprofessional (also read Jesse Fink TWG article where he did say to Carle that media will play no part in his selection after Carle tried apologising to him about it)
People has always wonder why Holman is picked over Kewell. Pim has answered it. Fantastic. Finally we have an explanation even if its brief and even if people don’t like it. Its fantastic to have a manager actually explaining his decisions.
Slippery Jim said | October 7th 2008 @ 10:25am | Report comment
The thing I love about the Dutch people I know is that while they are often brutally (or refreshingly, depending on your outlook) blunt, they also don’t mind in the slightest if you are blunt with them. I must say the way Pim has handled the media has been supurb in my viewpoint.
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Hear here SJ
I always remember Slater rant about Troullier in Pim Verbeek first appearance in national television in Total Football. It was quite rude from Slater and yet Pim Verbeek handle it with dignity and grace.
The Bear said | October 7th 2008 @ 11:07am | Report comment
dasilva, i don’t think Pim was using Grace. It would have been “normal” for him to have someone like Slater, being “rude” to him on his first TV appearance. Slater was made to look like a school boy because of it, tho, it must be said.
Graciously,
The Bear
dasilva said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
The Bear
Maybe you’re right. I guess I just imagine what would happen if Arnold or Farina or Postecoglu was in that position in the first television appearance and the host was being just as rude. It was “grace” relative to what I’ve seen from Australian coach when perhaps other countries it would be normal.
Actually I wonder if Foster tried to do to Pim what he did to Postecoglu. I reckon Pim would have shot him down.
Mick of Newie said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
dasilva
I don’t think Pim is leaving Carle out because of the critics. There is a risk that a player hearing negative comments from the national coach may have a negative effect. I don’t think that is the case here as Nick appears to be saying all the right things.
I agree it was good to hear Pim briefly explain his views on Holman. An illuminating follow up might have been “How do you weigh up a players tactical awareness, endurance and ability to go past the strikers on one hand and his limited technical ability on the other. Is it enough that a player can get in the right positions or should the player be able to do something when he gets there?
Mart said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
Slippery Jim – fair point actually, I’d forgotten that. Maybe it’s all in the translation ? I’ve certainly been impressed by Carle’s response (in public at least). Personally my wish is for Nicky boy to be breaking down doors with CP in the league and by extension forcing his way into Pim’s plans. We can only dream ! Anyway, it’s coming into summer here in Oz (even Melbourne !) and tnat’s Pim’s Season where I grew up !!
The Bear said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
dasilva, Slater’s comments were probably “lost in translation” for Pim. If our NT coach knew a bit about Aussie culture, they would have reacted, or responded, to Slater’s front on, overt disappointment and abruptness. Probably just as well we have a penchant for OS coaches. Otherwise our media pundits may not ever be so “cosy” the appointed candidate.
Graciously,
The Bear
Vicentin said | October 7th 2008 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
Mick of Newie – re your follow up question, I was thinking/hoping exactly the same thing when I watched that on Sunday. Foster has (surprisingly for me) been quite positive about Holman so I wasn’t actually expecting him to ask anything like that. I still think the “Holman is Pim’s lovechild” theory is the most plausible. Seriously I would never pick Holman in my team – with a bit of luck though he’ll come back to Australia one day and play for Melbourne
Mick of Newie said | October 7th 2008 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
I’ll be more gratious and hope that one day Holman proves us all wrong (like Wilkshire has done). No better time to start than next week because without Harry, Bresc and Grella we might struggle. (although I think I said a similar think before Tashkent).
dasilva said | October 8th 2008 @ 2:51am | Report comment
“How do you weigh up a players tactical awareness, endurance and ability to go past the strikers on one hand and his limited technical ability on the other. Is it enough that a player can get in the right positions or should the player be able to do something when he gets there?”
Excelsior Rotterdam 134 caps 39 goals
NEC Nijmegan 59 caps 19 goals
This is almost one goal every 3 games. Although it is not fantastic it is also not bad for an attacking midfielder or support striker. It shows that Holman has the POTENTIAL to score goals for Australia
Nick Carle
Olympic 86 caps 12 goals
Marconi Stallions 25 caps 6 goals
Newcastle United Jets 42 caps 7 goals
Nick Carle is a playmaker – there to create opportunities. Carle has never proven to be a prolific goal scorer even in A-league levels as he does not make intelligent runs into the box and his finishing isn’t that great either (it’s the biggest criticism of his game reading from Bristol City and Crystal palace fan. I really hope Carles get its right this season). I believe Pim believes the likes of Bresciano, Kewells and Emerton are good enough to create chances for the Soccerroo which makes Carle superfluous.
Other relevant players as well (Bresciano less then 1 goal every 4-5 games including PAlermo, Empoli and PArma, Jason Culina 1 goal every 3 games for Twente not much for PSV. Cahill 1 goal every 3-4 games for everton)
Obviously Pim Verbeek is looking for someone who can make intelligent runs behind a forward (I’m thinking Viduka who would complement well with holman) and score goals for Australia. Tim Cahill is the best man for the job but he was injured. Bresciano is more of a creator then a goal scorer and is not a prolific scorer. Culina is an interesting options for that position considering he was successful in playing that role for Twente but nowadays he is now a holding midfielder (I’m very curious how Culina would go if given attacking freedom. I’m open to him playing as a second striker).
Now enter Holman. He is a poor mans Cahill and he hasn’t score goals for Australia yet. However because he has the runs on the board and score goals one goal every 3 matches in Holland. Pim Verbeek is convince that eventually the intelligent runs Holman makes will eventually lead to goals.
It is a gamble from Pim but it is not done without good justification or for no reason. He is putting faith in a player he believes has potential.
(by the way, I would like Carle to play instead of Holman as well. I believe Holman has been given his chances. However I fully understand why Holman was pick over Carle and even Bresciano)
Mick of Newie said | October 8th 2008 @ 7:53am | Report comment
da silva
I was not buying into the Carle v Holman thing. You are right they are different players. My question was purely on Holman. I have not seen him play in Holland clearly Pim or Henk Duut have. My question was based on what I had observed in him playing for the Socceroos. Its a bit like the Scott Mcdonald question clearly very prolific in Scotland but from my observation hasn’t looked at all likely for the roos. I hope both Holman and Mcdonald prove me wrong next week.
Further to my earlier post about why I wish people wqould stop asking Pim about Carle here is his latest crack after supposedly having to clarify his comments in response ot Warnock’s spray:
Verbeek said he didn’t want to talk more about Carle and just wanted him to produce the goods on the field. “How many games did he play in the last month, in the last year, let him show himself, his qualities,” Verbeek said of Carle. “The last time he played well was here in the A-League, that’s two years ago.”
I know we like his directness but I think that is now over the top, In the last 2 years, Carle has played a handful of games in Turkey, 17 games for Bristol and now 12 for Palace. Clearly someone at Palace liked at least 1 game he played at Bristol. I am sure Pim or Hrenk have not watched every game so how can he comment on the last time he played well. Ask yourself this Pim, when was the last time Mile Sterjovski or David Carney played a good game for their club given Carle has played more games in the last 2 years than these 2 combined.
This is not a rant about picking Carle. Pim is entitled to not pick him. I just think his latest comments are a bit over the top.