By Garth Hamilton
October 21st 2008 @ 4:40am
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It’s the World Cup half empty
Rugby league is a tough game. On the field there’s little room to hide from the relentless repetition of heavily built men running headlong into the charging shoulders of their opposition.
Once that whistle goes the players enter a straight-shootin’, two dimensional world wherein the only truths that matter are meters gained and tackles missed.
If ever there was a game that called a spade a bloody shovel its rugby league.
So what’s all this nonsense about a World Cup?
The poor man’s rugby union World Cup is essentially an Australian product targeted at Australian audiences for the benefit of an Australian broadcaster. The English input into the event lingers much like the union jack on the north western margin of Australia’s flag, being dragged along by the greater southern body.
The influence of other nations represented at the event is similar to what you would find at your average state primary schools’ ‘multicultural awareness’ day, where children are invited to stand up and tell the class what country their great-great grandmother came from and all the kids with slightly different sounding last names get their mums to bring in a plate of their home land’s favourite delicacy.
The promotional advertisements for the World Cup are reminiscent of a scene from ‘the Simpsons’ where a heavily intoxicated Lisa freaks out whilst taking the ‘It’s a small world after all’ ride at Duff Gardens. Surrounded by hordes of animatronic clones distinguishable only by their garish national dress, Lisa loses it amidst the contrived chorus where world unity is only facilitated by the consumption of a product of questionable nutritional value.
From 1954 until 1975 the game adopted the ‘if you build it, they will come’ mantra and the first six rugby league World Cups were contested by only four teams; Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain and France. However after nearly 20 years of building it, only the Welsh came thanks largely to some pretty heavy raids upon that principality’s rugby union stocks and the convenient devolution of Great Britain into two sides. Sadly, after only one showing the boyos disappeared before the next version of the event in 1979 leaving it to be contested again by only four teams.
The next two rugby league World Cups were bizarrely each held over three years however this time the original four nations were joined by Papua New Guinea. So it was that after ten World Cups, roughly 100 years of professionalism and all of the media and political support that follows the interests of the masses, rugby league, that great beneficiary of Australia’s cultural cringe, had failed to make any meaningful growth beyond its tradition boundaries.
In 1995 a different path was taken. This time rather than sitting there, looking hopefully to the horizon waiting for somebody, anybody to show an interest in ‘our game’, league’s administrators decided that if other nations weren’t going to send teams of their own free will, rugby league would make teams for them. Whether they were interested or not.
As it turns out they probably weren’t. In the same year the still amateur rugby union held only its third World Cup and yet was able to more than double the average attendance figures of its professional counterpart whilst playing more than twice as many games.
Rugby’s 1995 World Cup gave the sporting world two lasting memories; Nelson Mandela wearing the Springbok jersey and Jonah Lomu running straight over the top of the hapless Mike Catt, thereby giving rugby not only its most iconic highlight reel but its first global superstar.
Only the most ardent rugby league supporter would be able to recall a single highlight from that code’s 1995 World Cup. If only international rugby league could have remained content in such optimistic mediocrity. Sadly over-ambition led the next World Cup into farce.
Buoyed by delusions of legitimacy, league’s international administrators decided to continue with their policy of creating international teams where none previously existed as had been the case with Ireland in 1995. In a move that seems like it came from a Will Ferrell movie, a ‘Lebanese’ team was artificially created entirely from Australians of Lebanese origin. When rugby league ran out of countries willing to nurture the gift of league, it found a way around the problem by once again duplicating nations. New Zealand and New Zealand Maori were deemed sufficiently distinct entities to warrant separate representation.
You see, that is the great thing about rugby league – it brings people together.
Fortunately this nefarious piece of political propaganda failed to net New Zealand a piece of silverwear as Australia inevitably took its ninth title in front of crowds that averaged a little over eight thousand. The event left the RFL in debt for four years and was so disastrous it pushed back the next World Cup until 2008.
And so here we are at the 13th rugby league World Cup and what does it tell us about the growth of the game.
All of the ten team captains play in one of two competitions; Australia’s National Rugby League and “Europe’s” Super League. France, 54 years since instigating the World Cup as a means of rebuilding their national competition, today fields only one team worthy of first class competition and New Zealand’s league future remains almost completely dependant upon that of Australia’s domestic competition.
By and large the game remains as it was 54 years ago, with strongholds in the north of England and the east of Australia and scatterings of interest in southern France and New Zealand. Where rugby exists, league will always find root and as such league finds its growth strangely dependant upon that of its rival code.
The most commonly cited exception is Papua New Guinea where rugby league enjoys a following of religious proportions and has achieved its status on its own merits. With all due respect to the people of PNG, this development is unlikely to yield either financial rewards or increased potential for further growth of the game as the country lacks the necessary infrastructure to accommodate a self-sufficient domestic competition of comparable quality to the NRL.
Its time for rugby league to stop trying to fool itself into believing it is a game of sufficient breadth to warrant a World Cup and start telling it like it is. The rugby league world consists of two fine domestic competitions, each rubbing cosily up against a promising but largely uncommitted neighbour much like an overzealous schoolboy on a disinterested maiden at a blue light disco.
All the rest is feel-good hyperbole not worthy of a game that, at least on the field, suffers few pretensions.
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Steffy said | October 21st 2008 @ 6:52am | Report comment
Wherever rugby league is found there will be union journos sniping at it - it’s been that way for 113 years.
By the way, why did France have to rebuild its national competition not long after WWII?
Clarky said | October 21st 2008 @ 7:31am | Report comment
Interesting article Garth, and undoubtedly the League diehards will scream blue murder at your cheek!
I think the key to the future of any competitive sport is to best understand it’s marketplace, it’s current and potential audience, and look at how it can prosper in those environments. Every sport wants to expand and dominate the world, League is no exception. The reality is that League, like AFL, is a niche sport. Union is bigger in comparison, but pales into insignificance against football (soccer).
The RL World Cup is a farce as most of the teams are not genuinely ‘representative’ teams. But hey, the success will be measured on gate takings and TV ratings. Personally, I don’t think either will make a significant impact.
I think a far more palatable and interesting League tournament would build on the games strengths and pit NSW and QLD teams against NZ, England, France, PNG and the Pacific Islands against each other. The Origin sides should be strong enough to compete alone, and this would mean more chance of someone other than Australia winning every tournament.
It’s time that RL as a niche sport, found it’s international niche rather than trying to artificially create solutions.
Jerry said | October 21st 2008 @ 7:31am | Report comment
By the way, why did Australian League NOT have to rebuild its national competition after WW1?
Ian Noble said | October 21st 2008 @ 7:38am | Report comment
Steffy
Read Jonnah Lester’s article in Rugby League Express about the lack of promotion and her comments about the lack of awareness of RLWC in Sydney. Incidently where the opening ceremony will take place after two games have taken place. Rather strange don’t you think, I always opening ceremonies kicked off the tournament.
You are showing your chip on your shoulder still hacking back to 1895, move on if League is as wonderful as you say it should have no problem in selling it’s wares.
Dave said | October 21st 2008 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Bit rich a Union blogger calling the League WC a joke…the Union WC is a poor mans football WC always has been and always will be. How many times has England, France, Australia, South Africa etc had to qualify for the Union WC? Automatic entries! Why? Because not enough countries around the world play the game to make it necessary for any decent team to have to qualify.
When the Union WC requires 2 years of qualification matches for all but the hosts, come back and start criticize the League WC.
Colin N said | October 21st 2008 @ 8:08am | Report comment
“Because not enough countries around the world play the game to make it necessary for any decent team to have to qualify.”
But that’s the same with League. There are only 10 teams competing, 10 less than the Union WC. I’ve always been a Union fan in general but have recently got into League, so I am looking forward to it, even though I can’t watch it because it’s not on terretrial TV in England!
Scott Vincent said | October 21st 2008 @ 8:09am | Report comment
Geez Garth, this article is pretty boring and adds nothing that other threads haven’t attempted to cover on this site.
So you’re saying that the Rugby World Cup is bigger than the Rugby League World Cup - what a revelation!!
RL can have a World Cup if it wants, a bit of a party to celebrate the game, until Aus plays either NZ or Eng in the final.
RU and its writers should be content enough with their own WC rather than trash what others do.
sledgeross said | October 21st 2008 @ 8:15am | Report comment
Look, we all know that Union has enjoyed a burst of popularity, but if you have a look at the weaker Union teams since Union became professional, you will see teams littered with imports from either grandparents or residency avenues. Even the giant of world sport, football, is riddled with “ring-ins” especially with smaller countries.
We have to remember that Union was a niche sport as well, but has been able to develop, but hasnt had the same tumultuous recent times tnhat League has had. Here in Oz, Union was mainly reserved for the “leather patch” brigade who drove Volvos and lived near the Harbour. This is slowly changing, and theres alot to be learnt from Union about changing perceptions and chasing different demographics.
Brian said | October 21st 2008 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Geez Garth, surely Rugby Union is so wonderful that there is something great for you to write about it rather than denigrating the league tournament. I’ll bet you one thing Garth, more people in this neck of the woods give a toss about league than they do union.
Ian Noble said | October 21st 2008 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Dave
Your point is well made and goes back to the undemocratic nature of the IRB where the main countries control the worldwide game. There has been a recent paper on the need to restructure bearing in mind the growth of the game outside the founder nations and the need to involve these growing nations in the decision process. Where the game is now played in over 100 countries for it to be controlled by 8 countries is surely a nonsense.
The RWC can not compete with FIFA WC and to be frank it doesn’t need to. It has created a strong following worldwide but particularly in Europe and will continue to grow. Having a longer qualification period including the top nations would certainly increase interest and grow the game. However, whilst the top European countries would survive if they didn’t qualify, serious question marks about OZ and NZ if they didn’t qualify, hence the unlikelihood of any changes in the immediate future.
TembaVJ said | October 21st 2008 @ 9:33am | Report comment
The first Rugby union world cup was held in 1987 that is 57 years later then the first football world cup in 1930, I think union will only grow and after NZ hosts the next one expect two even bigger RWC’s by Japan and the UK. America will join the party more each time they play and there are plans to promote the game in the US even more. Garth you have created a post that will spark some hostility from the die hard league supporters but you said it like it is, everyone knows who will win the RLWC. Lets pitch a formula one car against a bunch of mini’s and call it a race… its a joke to entertain Steffie and crew.
Spiro Zavos said | October 21st 2008 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Ian, I wouldn’t take much notice of the recent paper on the undemocratic nature of the IRB as it was a PR stunt devised with the connivance of the Japan Rugby Union to force the IRB members to give either the 2015 or 2019 RWC to Japan. The Japanese haven’t got over losing the 2011 RWC to NZ and are using surrogates in the UK to push their case, first in an abortive effort to win back 2011 and now for the next two RWCs.
My attitude to the RL World Cup is that if a particular sport wants to have a world-type competition, let them. After all, the football tournament at the Olympics is essentially an under-23 tournament but the winners get a gold medal.
I think there will be a reasonable amount of interest in the matches between the big three, Australia, England and NZ and possibly one of the Pacific Island sides might be to cause an upset, as similar sides did in the 2007 RWC.
One aspect of all this, too, is sometimes overlooked by critics who point to one-sided matches that the tournament may throw up is that there is a pyschic and long-lasting pleasure that ordinary players get for having their place in the RL sun for once their lives.
In other words, despite the obvious commercial aspects of a tournament like this, there is the sporting aspect. Players get a chance to play in the big-time, at the pinnacle of their sport which is about the only reward for playing the game for many of them.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Being a league fan i have to disagree with you, you are right in saying that it has 2 comps that are at the very best level sport has to offer, nobody can dispute that. So from these comps come off-shoots, being around europe and around the islands here in oz. Even if you look at lets say Tonga, it has gone from a 12 team local game to a 50 teams local game in the space of 8 years, next 5 who knows how much more the growth may be.
Also there is planned a Pacific island 5 nation tournament next year, and 4 nation internationals already being planned with the winner of the pacific comp playing in this tournament the year after, never happened before because the game has been lacking funds. This world cup has created alot more funds for the game to evolve unlike before it has not had any funds. This world cup so far has created 5 million dollars even before a ball has been kicked its a success.
I will be interested to see how future world games(union ‘football) pan out once the down-turn has fully hit home, so the next world cup in england 2013 can take notice of what happens to these world cup games by the 2 other codes. League has gained lots of lessons over the years but are finally moving forward, the only backward movement happens to be the press writing stories of negativaty which any league fan has been conditioned to ignore otherwise the game would have folded many years ago.
One other thing you mentioned is maybe having a queensland New South Wales team playing, i would love this because as you know queenslanders are very passionate about their league team, I could see the queenslanders taking on the world, even i would travel for that. There is a reason why the origin games are so popular garth.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 10:13am | Report comment
I also agrre with spiro, the players love being part of a world cup in any sport.
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Spiro I would agree except the pinnacle of Rugby League is State of Origin. This World Cup pales into a slighly bizarre joke in comparison to the tradition and credibility of the annual maroon v blues clashes. And on a similar note, I think the “big time” that players aspire to - from whatever part of the League world - is weekly NRL competition. Being part of a strangely structured and very lop-sided so-called World Cup with limited credibility might be nice for shits and giggles but is nowhere near the important end of what goes on in the Rugby League world.
Oh oikee - if Tonga has a 50 team local comp, given its population of 112000 an assuming you need a squad of 30 per team that means you have one squad player per every 75 people on the islands. Given that the total population includes everyone from new-born babies to the old-fellas, and women as well as men, you’d expect the population of able-bodies males between 15 and 40 to be more like 25000, making the stat one squad player for every 20 blokes across the population. Impossible for that to be true, and even if it were, it suggests abysmally low standards (basically anyone can play) and absolutely no room for growth.
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 11:15am | Report comment
Just so we can compare oikee, to follow my last point, it would be like if the ACT alone had a league of 150 teams, or if Queensland had a league of almost 2000 teams just in that state. Not very likely, and even if it were true, not much chance of any quality there…
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 11:26am | Report comment
Millster i have talked to you before about international games, as for origin its between states and believe me millster the international comp goes to a higher level , dont forget you have both these groups involved (qld+nsw) so the quality is better, and i have also explained to you about how hard oz has struggled to win test matches against new zealand and england, going back to when the mighty Mal was playing, we struggled to win, not all the time but on ocasions. England will shock you i think millster, i expect a real battle to beat them.
Now about that tonga comp, i was talking from under 12’s up, and i did not mention union because they are the dominate code there so how many they have is anyones guess. But i will also let you know that in some outback towns here in queensland where we have a population of 200 you can feild a team, and they do! sometimes they have 40 year olds making up the numbers, and they only need 13 to make a team, not 30. Some dont have reserves to fall back on. Thats extreme but does happen. So 15 is enough, we are not taking 30, they only use 25 for international games, thats all your allowed. Extra players is good for dept, but not a crucial factor.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 11:31am | Report comment
And please dont knock the quality of the outback teams, or tonga teams, some of the NRL players are from outback queensland, even darren lockyer comes from roma, which is not a big place. Arthur beetson was also from roma. Its a small comp but very passionate about league, i have been out there to watch games and they dont hold back. Not only that i have also played out there when i was a kid, as did peter sterling i think.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 11:34am | Report comment
I think theres over 2000 teams in queensland millster, i will check, but i think i have seen a report where it was mentioned, its always good to know anyway.
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 11:37am | Report comment
Oikee I cannot be convinced. While he is obviously derisive, I think the original article here is actually a properly written wake-up call for the game. Why this pretense of a world Cup? Why not accept the fact that it has limited strongholds and run a more suitable competition that - perhaps - might look a bit like Union’s tri-nations (including Aust, NZ+Pacific, and Europe including UK and France). I have to agree 100% with the writers view that for such a basic, hard non-bullshit code, it is running one hell of a bullshit event. And the saddest part is the basic game is pretty cool so it wouldn’t take much imagination and creativity to do something a bit more unique and credible.
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Oikee - I’m sure there is if you go down the the under 5’s. But your original comment that tonga had gone to a 12 team local game to a 50 team local game, to me at least, implied you were talking at a reasonably serious elite level. About quality and small-town teams, of course you might have that one or two quality players by chance, but simple stats will tell you that you cannot have decent quality across the board from such a small population pool especially when you’re talking mainly part-timers who are shearers or miners or the bartender at the pub. I’m not knocking their passion, but elite players are not about passion, they are about a set of skills and physical attributes that pop up maybe 1 in 100000 in a population, if that.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Sorry millster, there is 30 main comps and if you broke that down into divisions there would be around the 2000 groups of players playinf in each comp, so for once you are right.
All i can say is the games growing, ( your last remark ) and to grow sport you have to show it to the world weather or not its really a true world cup or not. You have to earn money as you know or you cant develop much further or faster than one would. Countries are willing to show the game so we will see how it goes, time will tell, we might not be having this talk in 20 years if the game fails. Like i said to you millster, enjoy it while it lasts, you dont often go to a world cup.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 11:58am | Report comment
Yes your right, but they do have scouts that look for potential at these games, so what i am saying is they dont go
un-noticed which is encourageing. Look at the AFL up here, and N.T as well, there is plenty of talent to go around so football would also find some talent around the traps. Heavens knows how many football teams are up here. Now that might be over 2 thousand.
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Actually Oikee thats my whole point. Funny because we argue so much, but remember I actually like League a lot. I think it is a cool sport, a hard sport, but more accessible and understandable to new markets than Union or AFL or Gridiron.
But where I disagree is on your comment “to grow sport you have to show it to the world weather or not its really a true world cup or not”. To me the real challenge is to show the world the best possible face for your sport. Highlight its strengths and be realistic about its weaknesses. Thats the problem I have with the concept of a RL World Cup. There are so many better and cleverer ways to showcase the game, to build real rivalries, to help development of key areas, and also to not show up so clearly the limitations and lack of depth of the code, orr how it goes in comparison to Union or ffotball (which is obviously not favourable to it). Even in terms of money I think an annual 3 or 4 way set of tests with Aust, NZ and Pacific, England, and a ‘rest of Europe’ team would be a far better product than a kind of poor mans World Cup with dodgy teams only once every 4 years.
I want League to be successful, but I think the World Cup concept is a step backward for the game not a step forward.
Michael C said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
Millster -
the 1 in a 100,000 is perhaps a little limiting in thinking.
Does that assume what genetic and environmental circumstances? What development programs? and the 100,000 - - is that raw players, or general population? Is that for each generation of 10 years olds coming through any given ’system’?
It also might be that particular sports have less limited a scope for ’super stardom’. i.e. cricket for example, you can be a super star bowler and a crap batter, or vice versa. Soccer however, if you can’t kick that flash - there’s stuff all scope, even as a goalie. In Rugby, if you struggle to put on the kilos, you’re going to struggle and in basketball if you stopped growing somewhere below 198 cms then you’re struggling.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
Tend to dissagree with you there millster, yes its good to have tri nations and 4 nations but you still need a outlet for other nations, if you dont help support them they dont grow, league knows this 1st hand. Look you could point out 100 objections for a league world cup but i could reply to them all and give you good argument, league had hit rock bottom 2000. It has taken 8 years to get it going again but with knowleadge of what not to do, they have done their homework this time, (why they have made money before a ball kicked) they have learnt by the other codes, nobody has sugested at any time that this is a big world cup, even admin are playing it down and saying we are starting from the beginning, big deal, its a world cup with the outlook of future growth, this objective has been acheived. Nobody is bragging, yet, just enjoy until next event.
P.S, millster i am a mad league supporter, but that did not stop me from going to the union world cup game at suncorp. I absolutely loved it and if it was soccer, i would do the same, like i said we dont see that many good or top quality international sport, lap it up sone while you can, take your medicine while you can, when you get to 80 you can tell your grandkids of all the world cups you have been to.
JimC said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
The sad aspect of Garth’s article is that it completely ignores the thousands of us who are spending our money to come to Australia to see the event.
I’m heading down under because I love rugby league and want to be there. I’m not really bothered if Garth and his other north shore buddies aren’t interested.
The real reason that this type of article is written by people like Garth, Rebecca Wilson, Peter Fitzsimons is to try and stop the casual sports fan taking any interest in rugby league. They actively want the event to fail.
Can you imagine this kind of article being written about any other sport? It just boils down to spite and a deep seated, but groundless, fear that rugby league could grow more popular then rugby union if the media give it the same prominence that union enjoys (in Europe at least). It’s very, very disappointing to get this constant stream of negative propaganda.
I can’t wait for the England vs Kangaroos game in Melbourne - me and 40,000 fans enjoying our favourite sport played at its best. What could be wrong with that?
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
MC - no argument from me. I was coming from the most simple population statistics, and makin a point in the most general sense. In fact I agree that the proportion depends on the sport. But yes if you take out the stumpy-legged Tongans, the scrawny Tongans, the uncoordinated Tongans (they play AFL I hear
) and the rest then you have an even more unlikely picture again. My underlying point is that it would be rare for any sport than demanded real elite athletic qualities to produce 10 individuals - let alone 50 teams - from a total population of 112000. Hell the USA has a population of over 300 million and I doubt, even if you added up all the franchises of all the top line sports, whether you’d get to 50 pro teams in that country. Maybe you would, but it wouldn’t be many more.
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
JimC - as a doubter I say welcome to our shores and I hope you enjoy the Rugby League. For info I am not against the game per se and have accepted an invitation to the Aust V Kiwi game on the opening day. Please be clear that we don’t object to League, only to the phony use of the title “World Cup”. Your England V Kangaroos match would be more meaningful not less were it to be promoted as a pinnacle test match, rather than just one game in a tournament that lacks depth and credibility.
Oikee - for all I argue, I hope you know I will enjoy the game against NZ. It will be a good contest no doubt!
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
JimC , have to dissagree with you there, its 56 thousand fans at the dome and you. Melbourne do support internationals, i will give them that much.
And also you would warmly welcomed by league fans in the other 2 states, besides what you read about these drongos writing garbage most stadiums will end up being sold out, queensland will be and you will enjoy the support we give league, its like religion up here.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
Theres a new line for the name Millster, how about “The Mass Gathering” (world cup)
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:54pm | Report comment
I have to chukle when i hear tongoans and samoans playing AFL
sledgeross said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
Ok Millster, please define what a sporting “World Cup” is?
Maybe this event could reignite international rugby league similar to the 95 Union World Cup, which really heralded in a new credibility to the “Leather Patch” set.
TembaVJ said | October 21st 2008 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
Spiro is right, they deserve a moment in the spot light and its about the athletes. Ill be gunning for the underdogs cuz if I have to hear Australia won yet another big league event ill do a Luke Watson and puke on something!
For the sake of the sport Australians have to hope for an upset too, its hard for the sport to grow when its dominated completely by one country. So the question to league fans are, is winning the world cup worth more then the growth of the sport, sure you can win yet another trophy as you did 10 times before or someone else can have the spot light and further the sport in their country? Id say if England had to win, it would mean massive growth in the UK but I know Australians and they hate losing to England.
The mistake made years ago in league was to name the sport rugby league there for lining it with Rugby Union and by name making it battle between the two codes. They can coexist but as different sports not two forms of rugby. League admin need to start showing some original thinking and stop following union in the hope that one day people will click and realize its better than union, this will not happen, ever. The LRWC should be changed into some other format, breaking the Australian stronghold, like a world series competing against the state teams of Australia. Or… League can watch as Union grows beyond its reach….By not separating it from Rugby and all its ways it will die a slow death internationally.
TembaVJ said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
Sledgerross, the only way that will happen is if something different happens, but everyone knows what is going to happen. England or New Zealand will make it past the semi’s to lose to Australia in the final, there for giving it (world cup) to Australia for the 100th time… I can hear the cheering now…”YEA!!!!!!!” nothing new, nothing special, why not make it once a month?
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
TembaVJ…. please go on to the obvious conclusion…. thereby emphasising to the world that RL is essentially an Aussie domestic game with a couple of very minor pockets of adherers in 2 or 3 other culturally similar nations… and thereby HURTING rather than HELPING the cause of Rugby League development around the world.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
Maybe its worth more Temba, ten world cup titals dont come around very often. Good publicity even if you think possitively, think about other teams wanting to beat us, the new guineaians would bring back cannabilism to beat us, have a big pot ready to boil bones.
Its hard to break away from union, take the word super league, now dont you think that this would be a better name, well union uses this in america. The only way this would ever be resolved is either merger, (which is unlikely) or league to outgrow union.(which is unlikely) . Nothing wrong with 2 games, gives more players options, league has already accepted the fact its going to lose players to union, not happy but what can you do, stop players from making money. And like i have said you get 2 world cups, so we get a chance to go to world cups more often. Most people in australia dont even realise there is a issue between the 2, i never did until i started reading posts on the internet. I have never seen anyone going around here in queensland hissing or booing union. Most just prefer league but also enjoy union international.
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
Oikee - on the “ten world cups don’t come around very often” that is exactly the point to us people looking in from the outside. We can’t help but raise some very serious and valid questions about a game in which the one country can win 10 World Cups with - to be honest - only a little bit of serious competition.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
If you really want to know how popular the sport is by reply’s, take that Rebecca Wilson for instance, whenever she writes a post about league she gets around 100 posts back, and any other reporter gets the same. As a matter of fact i think league should be paid for replys, she only does it to stir i am sure, otherwise nobody replies to her blogs. Shes doing wonders for the name dumb blondes.
TembaVJ said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
The point I am making and I think the author of the article is trying to make is league needs a boom in viewer, for that it needs something special and unique. The usual and mundane plodding on is not helping the growth of the sport. Sure its growing but at a negative rate as to earths population growth. SARU South African union covers leagues world wide revenue in one domestic season and this is not a big comp like the Guinness or 6 nations. Sitting around waiting for people to adapt to league is not going to create that boom. Sorry guys but its just not going to help the cause seeing Australia win yet another title in Australia, were the largest attraction to the sport resides. Eventually league will get cannibalized by union and the sport will return to armature unless something is done soon, this process will take decades but there is a point of no return.
TembaVJ said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
Oikee you should see the replies on having the Sprinbok emblem changed! Its funny how the negitive subjects get the most replies.
sledgeross said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Temba, thats not really different to any other World Cups. The top few nations always seem to make the finals. How many World Cup finals have the Brazilians played in? How many times has Australia played in a One Day WC final? How many Rugby WOrld cups have the All Blacks played in (Ok, bad example!). The best teams will usually make it further. Football does throw up the occasional Cameroon, or Senegal, or Australia in the group stages, but they never make it to the “big dance”.
I dont see how the hardcore Rugby heads here are so derisive of the World Cup when its really a facsimile of their own, albeit a more rudimentary one. I cant understand why people are so narrowminded? Beats the shit out of me. The tribalism of the Rah rahs is akin to what you would see in league.
Michael C said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
oikee -
I have to chukle when i hear tongoans and samoans playing AFL
I was gonna suggest that you should be pleased that I haven’t been having a go at the RLWC - - and yet, you still find a way to have a quiet go at AFL.
just so you know - there are Tongans and Samoans that play Aust Footy. THe Samoan team out here a month ago interestingly enough are coached by a fine Samoan lady, Milani Feaunati - she reckons Aust footy is just brilliant and that the Samoan boys are naturals at it and it’s only a matter of time before it spreads further.
There’s an 8 team senior league in Samoa - - and strangely it was about 10 years ago that footy kicked off - via an exhibition school match held in conjunction with a Rugby match. In ‘99 the schools comp kicked off.
“Australian football is really a very natural game for the Pacific,” Samoa’s AFL game development officer, Mick Roberts said. “It’s an embodiment of all the games they love, but it’s even better — there’s no offside, no knock-on. Samoans just love to play. They’re tough, and their commitment is second to none. They’ll hit hard, then they’ll just get up and go again.”
Traditionally, Samoa has been rugby country, but Australian football is making inroads. Four AFL games are shown live on TV each weekend, and last year, 4400 children aged four to 14 completed a six-week Auskick program. The under-15 kids compete in an annual carnival titled the Aaron Edwards Cup, and there’s a national schoolboys under-18 championship, where the best players feed the eight-team senior men’s league.
Obviously, 8 teams hardly compares to 50 teams………….but…….just wait until the first international rookie listed Samoan breaks into the AFL……….currently just the profile of one Samoan born AFL player is sufficient. Well, who knows, but, again, it’s a start - - that’s been achieved in 10 years from a zero base. Let’s touch base again in another 10 years.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Of all the animals in africa they had to pick a deer with a bullseye on its arse.
All i know is the 2 games i am going to have already been paid for and should both be sellouts, who wins and who loses is part of any game, league needs a boast but the kangaroos wont roll over, if another team is going to take the tital they had and will be the better team.
The next world cup in england will get support , they will know exactly where they stand come this world cup. I dont think they have had a better team, and i have seen scofield play who i thought was one of there best ever players. No good worrying about the future too much, it looks rather bleak at the moment.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:58pm | Report comment
I wasn’t really having a go, M.C was just seeing if you were alert.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
You must know i realise that big isse folou is tongan.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
What really dissapoints me is that AFL have not gone after someone like Folou, pull your fingers out, everyone was impressed by his ability, and his strenght is unmatched in league, i have seen him walk over so many players,
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
Have to go, thnderstorm arriving.
Midfielder said | October 21st 2008 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
RL management called this event a “World Cup” says more about RL management than it does about anything else.
Unless you are a rusted on RL fan ….. and even many of them look at the WC tag as a joke …….. but I more see it as Sad. ….Sad in the sense that arranged in a slightly different format without the WC tag would have made it more acceptable as a meaningful sports event than it is currently.
RL from the end of the SL war to present has been poorly run at first to reasonably run today ………. but never excellently run ……. and to call this event a WC highlights poor management more than anything else …… well thats my opinion anyway
Michael C said | October 21st 2008 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
oikee -
What really dissapoints me is that AFL have not gone after someone like Folou,
actually, funny you mention that - just today the news is out about the WEstern Bulldogs having identified 2 Fijian kids (and potentially a few others) in particular (a 16yo and 19yo) after holding a talent identification camp in Fiji.
The thing the AFL needs to get in place is a Pacific pathway - - they’ve done it with PNG no incorporated into QLD. Logically they might do likewise with other Pacific islands - - via QLD or perhaps even via NZ???? Ah who knows - - but, certainly, there’s no some coals in the fire and no reason not to believe.
btw - - the above from me, ……….., not sure if it’s a ‘proof’ of me being alert, or perhaps an illustration that I’m beyond alert and it must be home time.
Ah bugger it, Hodge got out!!!! Hmm. Siddle got the red ink for the Aussies!! (zero not out!).
Millster said | October 21st 2008 @ 4:52pm | Report comment
Just out of interest boys, what do you expect crowd attendances will be at the various matches? I find that hard to predict.
mtngry said | October 21st 2008 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
I have bought my tickets, I know lots of people who have bought tickets, and I know people in England who wish they could make it out.
I agree the worl cup is too small and designed soley to generate revenue.
I can’t see why they could not have had 4 pools of 3 and allowed another European team ( maybe Russia or Lebanon) and an atlantic team ( most likely USA) In.
Just because only 3 teams can win it does not mean it is not a world cup. There are no rules in International law about what a world cup must be.
The Answer said | October 21st 2008 @ 6:01pm | Report comment
Michael C,
What AFL needs is Pacific pathways? Sounds like you have watched too many episodes of Summer Heights High.
sheek said | October 21st 2008 @ 6:27pm | Report comment
Soooooooooo……………….,
My favourite sport is better than your favourite sport, you wanna have a go, do ya?!
Garth,
What on earth were you thinking? Bored in grey old England, are you? Boy, hasn’t this upset the locals (some of them).
True Tah said | October 21st 2008 @ 6:28pm | Report comment
As a union fan, I dont think any other sport has the right to criticise RL for having a world cup, and therefore Im definitely not agreeing with the author of this article.
I know someone who played for the Lebanese in 2000, and he said it was an honour to have the chance to represent the nation of his ancestors and they stopped by Lebanon on their way home and got to meet the President. They were told in future they needed to have a domestic comp to be eligible, so they promptly set up a comp, it was hard, because in Lebanon the only sport most people know is futbol…but who knows one day the Lebanese may make the World Cup semis and bring some pride to a nation which seems to have been perpetually condemned for the problems of the countries surrounding it.
I will be watching the games on TV, I was hoping to head out and see Tonga play Samoa out at Penrith, but it looks like it kicks off at 7pm on a Friday night, not enough time for me to get home from work and head out to Penrith.
They should have had it on a sunday, and if they were having trouble selling tickets, they should chuck in a free KFC voucher with every ticket!!
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
Thanks true tah, its exactly how i feel about union, really enjoy the world cup they have, its been that long since a league world cup is the reason i am looking forward to it, maybe some more teams could have made the cut under this format, theres always next time and really i think that the other nations who missed the cut wont be missing out next time, i know wales were really hurt not to make the cup. All excited again now about the next world cup.
I read that aticle M.C and have to say the more the islanders get involved in any sports here in oz the more we can help them as a country. Plenty to go around, i think league has plenty of talent to choose from. Wonder if they play soccer. I really think that the 2 or 3 games should be involved in helping each other, put away the differences and think more about the players, good to see so many get and make some good money. In the background i think you would find this happens. Identifying talent.
oikee said | October 21st 2008 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
Would be very surprised not to see most venue sold out, maybe one or 2 minor games might struggle but we only have 1or 2 minor games. Most venues are around the 20 thousand mark, so should go close to filling them all. Its a shame i dont live nearer these games , i would be happy to watch Fiji verse France.
Michael C said | October 21st 2008 @ 8:01pm | Report comment
The Answer -
actually it is what the folk in Samoa, Nauru etc are desiring, a defined talent pathway - - and have cited a similar program to the inclusion of PNG in the QLD pathway - - - easy. Nothing fictional at all. But we’ve got off topic - - so I’ll leave it at that.
keeper11 said | October 21st 2008 @ 8:18pm | Report comment
I can’t beleive the diehard ‘leaguies’ are so precious about their game and the this article……which is simply stating the truth and the facile nature of leagues so called world cup..
leaguies miss the point of why its a joke……not because of the lack of any countries or the silly setup of the pools..
Its because regardless of the results …blind leaguies are deluded into beleiving it must be a success beacuse its league..
The NRL’s army of compliant spinmeisters at channel 9 , news limited, 2gb have already written the headlines:
” international league alive and well”
” result good for the game”
‘fans embrace league world cup”
“our world champions ”
” League World cup deemed a success” …says some clueless league puppet…blahh blah
…I will even bet my house on one of these two outcomes ::
1. Australia win- screaming heasdlines ‘ glory to our world champions’ = good for the game
2. new zealand- screaming headlines ‘ result good for international league ‘ = good for the game
jooooooooke…
can i ‘will happily wce
onside said | October 21st 2008 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
Rugby League is going to be a demonstration sport at the London Olympics
Steffy said | October 21st 2008 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
“The NRL’s army of compliant spinmeisters at channel 9 , news limited, 2gb have already written the headlines”
You don’t think that happens in other sports? Where rugby is unusual is that journalists from other sports seem to think they have a god given right to belittle it at every opportunity - does that happen to other sports? Does the union world cup get loads of articles written about it by soccer journalists? Do soccer journalists say the heineken european cup is a joke because hardly any of europe is interested in it and hardly any of europe take part in it?
As I said, rugby has been sniped at by union journalists since the day it split from union in 1895.
netrug said | October 21st 2008 @ 9:29pm | Report comment
Dave.
The RWC2011 qualifying games have been played for the past six months. Just last weekend Brazil beat Trinidad & Tobago to progress to the next Americas zone series against Uruguay and Chile. In Europe Hungary beat Denmark and Armenia beat Switzerland in their pool qualifying games. There are still a lot of games to go on the various continents before the final nations are known.
With regard to international league, it a bit stronger now than is generally believed. Serbia played league for 15 years in the 1950s and 60s. T o be part of Yugoslavia and a lot of argument (read Croatia) they switched to Rugby. Now that Yugoslavia no longer exists, they have switched back to league. Lebanon runs a five team local competition and there is only one Rugby club there which only plays against a visiting watrship or gets an occasional trip to Cyprus Australian Lebanese took league to Lebanon and has really caught on. In Russia, a national league is operating with an eight team comp. It is quite strong although the juniors play in the local Rugby competition. A lot of moeny was poured into Russian league via a media man and a casino operator. Their first coach was the current national /rugby coach who switched along with a few Rugby players which gave the local league a reasonable base.
Last month thesse three nations played for the Euro-Med Cup won by Russia who defeated a virtual experimental junior Lebanon, 80-0, the first time Russia had ever beaten Lebanon. Russia also beat Serbia whilst the young Lebanese also beat Serbia.
Germany now has afive team leaqgue competition and is actively promoting the game . However, a makeshift Italian team, made up of lower grade Italian Rugby players easily beat them. There iare also local competitions in the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, Estonia and Latvia. A move to get the game going in Georgia failed. Powersthat be are trying to get local leagues started in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Argentina and the United Arab Emirates.
In Asia, there is a team playing in Japan for a number of years but has not expanded. In the USA, league has increased from a five team comp to six but has no real following. The attempt to start the game in Canada failed. There is a competition in the West Indies but seem to be players who alternate between league and Rugby at will.
This year’s RLWC should have had 12 teams, Lebanon and Russia as these two nations at least have a local competition. And why did the authorities throw PNG to the wolves?
bozo said | October 21st 2008 @ 9:39pm | Report comment
onside - the jokes are my area. move on.