Australian football: reflecting on how far we’ve come

Norm said  | October 26th 2008 @ 8:24am | Report comment

Michael C
after 150 yrs Aussie Rules has gone nowhere overseas & remains a secondary sport in the eastern states…so keep a check on the self tribute. Name the 150 AFL premiers.

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Koala Bear said  | October 26th 2008 @ 9:19am | Report comment

Norm,
C’mon lad 150 years and the Clayton’s IC was played out on a deserted Victorian beach, that has to count for something..

Adrian,
I live on the Gold Coast and the TV media have made regular comment up here on the Gold Coast on the Adelaide United odyssey .. Yesterday, and on the local ABC radio Saturday afternoon, they conducted two long interviews, one with Aurelio Vidmar and the other with the Adelaide Football Manager now in Japan; to scout for training and hotel requirements for the ACL Final on the home and away encounters.. This is the new standard for Australian Club Football; with increased professionalism, with well planned away football preparations … It’s been a long time coming, but at last it is here.. What ever happens now in the ACL Final Playoffs…

~~~~~~~~
KB

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Midfielder said  | October 26th 2008 @ 10:15am | Report comment

Adrain

We have come a long way ……. are well stalling ……… the Fox deal while great I always tho was too long. IMO we need the Socceroos on FTA before 2014.

The next five years are going to very hard, looking back at the past is nice, planning the way forward is what is most important, major issues still facing the game;

* Funding still at the bottom of the food chain by a long way,
*Development of park coaches,
*The ethnic over hang is still there in some state leagues,
*Football NSW ……. still in the control of old soccer,
*SFC …….. move and get decent management,
*Behaviour of a small but European copy cat types trying to start fights at games,
*General media coverage especially electronic media coverage very small, KB—- ABC has a very small national audience but it is a start.
*Create a connection between the football family i.e. the associations state teams and the A-League,
*Development of better senior coaches and improve overall skill levels of players.

But as Adrain has said our product range is huge, world cups for both men and women, similar Asian cup for men & women, Olympics again for both men and women. At club level A-League, Asian Champion league, world cup for clubs, women’s league and the youth league.

To manager all these products on a small budget and with a small staff, make the World / Asian cups & Olympics, with little media support will require management skills beyond anything seen before in Australian sport. With Obie One in charge it can be done without him we are in deep poo, just hopes he can keep going for another five years.

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Midfielder said  | October 26th 2008 @ 12:52pm | Report comment

KB

Saw the show ………. but offsiders today has nothing to do with how well SFC are marketed …….. look I hope next week when the Choppers are beaten (sorry well beaten) by the, Mariners SFC get a crowd of 25K plus, but in Australia’s largest city with over 200, 000 rwgistered players and leading the comp, and on paper a strong side the crowd average is holding back football ………..

Yes the ABC are starting to give some decent coverage and it is by and large little, but the commercials especially 9 & 10 and commercial radio media coverage is very poor.

PS what do you think the score will be 3 - 0 to the Mariners ……Matty to score a brace, Sash to get a penalty and score the first goal.

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Joe FC said  | October 26th 2008 @ 1:45pm | Report comment

Midfielder Koala Bear
I suspect the 2018 WC issue is more a longitudinal matter than a latitudinal one, i.e. a time zone problem. Sth Africa is virtually a European time, Brazil less so & Australia certainly not. If we assume the value of TV rights reflects potential live viewing audiences then Australian hosting prospects will always start with this disadvantage regardless of where 2010 & 2014 WCs have been staged. Perhaps the fact of the 2002 ( Asian but nthn hemisphere ) WC is more of a hinderance to us than the upcoming sthn hemisphere WCs.

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Koala Bear said  | October 26th 2008 @ 8:58pm | Report comment

Midfielder,
after a magnificent win last night over the Muppets (MV) you may see a new energised recalibrated wave of support for SFC the best Club in the league.. The good ship yellow lollipop will be scuttled in Sydney harbour Cove with no prisoners taken.. my laddie .. Rest assured Long John Aloisi will put his cutlass through the lot of ye ol’ Mariners …

Joe FC,
Italy, Brazil and Sth Africa are behind the Australian bid.. As I understand it.. The time zone is not a problem as Frank Lowy was also quizzed about that on the Offsiders program several weeks ago.. He points out that 2/3 of the world population live in the Asian region and that; that market, will hold the most importance..

Also and I think we may see a different sort of TV scheduling to the kickoff times, which will be more conducive for the European market.. We will have for the first time a FIFA WC tournament played in the winter months.. Therefore, I can’t see no good reason why we can’t have early kick off times say between 10am - 11am as the weather will be mild and not in heatwave conditions.. This would mean that live games would be shown at a reasonable evening times say around 10pm - 11pm or there abouts in most of Europe… I think ? The stadia will be secured, built or refurbished.. That will not be a concern..

~~~~~~~
KB

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Joe FC said  | October 26th 2008 @ 10:19pm | Report comment

Koala Bear
yes changing the kick off times would be one way around any potential time zone problems. Re winter WCs - Argentina 78 was & of course SA 2010 will be. It will be interesting to see what happens to match times in SA. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves, we haven’t won the right to host anything yet.

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Slippery Jim said  | October 27th 2008 @ 7:07am | Report comment

Pippu, your posts are starting to sound more and more like Michael C.

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dasilva said  | October 27th 2008 @ 7:59am | Report comment

Pippu - I would generally accept your argument except for one thing. That the news are quite happy to give media attention to football if it is negative. Now if the game is too insignificant and unpopular then why should it matter if a fringe sports have discipline and crowd problems. If the game is popular enough for those negative events to be newsworthy then why no coverage of the great achievement of the game.

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Michael C said  | October 27th 2008 @ 8:23am | Report comment

SJ -

what?? Pippinu is actually doing a little independant research??? And has a capacity to look at data from a less narrow perspective as some myopic soccer advocates.

The Link -

Pippinu presenting ‘capital city’ only Fox figures isn’t so much ‘incorrect’, simply, perhaps should be ‘qualified’ as such. However - - as an aside, how cool the ratings for Aussie dramas…………..nice to see that people support and watch shows that may not in fact have ANY international viewing audience, and yet………….it doesn’t seem to bother us!!!!!!

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Millster said  | October 27th 2008 @ 8:33am | Report comment

Oh god how many times do we have to resort to code v code and ratings lists. We all know this stuff already. So we had 30K-ish crowds to MV vs SFC, to Perth AFL/IR, and to Sydney RL World Cup over the weekend. None sell-outs but none miserable either. Goodo. Who cares.

The authors point is that given where football was in this country 5 years ago we should be very pleased at where it is now. Not crowing perfection of course, because there’s plenty of growth and improvement to go, but the ship is pointed in the right direction and it’s sails are filling with wind.

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Redb said  | October 27th 2008 @ 8:40am | Report comment

hehe…I knew it was only a matter of time before KB saw through Roy Masters biased drivel.

Redb

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Redb said  | October 27th 2008 @ 8:46am | Report comment

Millster,

Each codes has it strengths and weaknesses. I’m as guilty as anyone for indulging in some code war rhetoric from time to time but this article just perpetuates what is a pointless debate.

I realise to measure soccer’s growth in Australia you need to compare it to other codes, but you do NOT need to deride the other codes along the way. Frankly, it shows weakness in his argument.

Redb

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Koala Bear said  | October 27th 2008 @ 8:51am | Report comment

MEDIA RELEASE- 1 September 2008 2
Top 50 Subscription TV Program Broadcasts
National STV Program List: All People - w/c 24 Aug 2008

Link,
maybe the simple explanation would be that in August; that is the commencement month of the HAL .. and in the case of the NRL and MarnGrook that is the beginning of their respective 8 club Semi Final playoff series.. Don’t you think you should compare figures only related to both ends of the respective Football code’s play off series.?. Just to be fair about it.. I would suspect that the HAL, although it would still fall in behind the Grooky and NRL, but would look a lot more closer to what would represent the true story… ie Football’s growing popularity in Australia…

~~~~~~~~
KB

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Slippery Jim said  | October 27th 2008 @ 8:58am | Report comment

Michael C, if those TV ratings have any relevancy whatsoever, I should start watching Project Runway as it is obviously TV of the highest possible calibre. Just like the AFL (and they both wear hotpants).

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Millster said  | October 27th 2008 @ 9:02am | Report comment

“you have to start somewhere”…. or perhaps you have to do something altogether different. I still think that fans, media and administrators form an ‘unholy trinity’ in terms of lack of imagination of varied ways in which a code can develop and prosper. Comparisons and cross-code criticisms are so easy to make when each code seems to be trying to emulate the others rather than recognise, and play to, their own individual strengths and weaknesses. This again is why I am so full of applause of the AFL’s approach to its international cup. I think its a very clever and mature thing they did.

RedB - I did look closer… is that James Hird looking like he’s a bit weak and unable to untangle himself from the ribbons? Is that his mum running over to help him?

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Redb said  | October 27th 2008 @ 9:07am | Report comment

SJ,

your stuck in a time warp, those tight shorts were from the 1980s.

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Slippery Jim said  | October 27th 2008 @ 9:09am | Report comment

That’s funny, I have watched a few AFL games lately and they still make me wonder how they manage not to knacker themselves every time they take a step with those short shorts. Maybe you’re just used to it, RedB. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Pippu, stop stat mining son, the canary has died, time to resurface before it’s too late

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Slippery Jim said  | October 27th 2008 @ 9:12am | Report comment

Aha - finally - Pippu, I have been looking forward to your 442 blog, all it had last time I checked was a pretty picture of your mug against a MV (Melbourne Violence FC’s) logo. I will read with interest (I just hope nobody catches me looking at the MV section of the site, or I may have to take my things home in a cardboard box tonight!)

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Michael C said  | October 27th 2008 @ 9:22am | Report comment

KB -

what are you on about with your ‘crack sniffing’ line??

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Pippinu said  | October 27th 2008 @ 9:24am | Report comment

sj
it’s just my natural radiance!

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Michael C said  | October 27th 2008 @ 9:38am | Report comment

KB -

I’ll ignore your ‘cracks’ about ‘cracks’ for now…..
but

where’s your evidence for Football’s growing popularity in Australia…

btw - what are the MVFC membership numbers for this season - - twas a time a few months back where their figures were down on last year and everyone said wait until round 8 or 9 and if MVFC were going well then we can have a proper look.

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Millster said  | October 27th 2008 @ 9:49am | Report comment

An interesting point to debate MC, especially so soon after a weekend where a domestic HAL match at 31.5K spectators is only marginally shaded by crowds to two international fixtures in Perth and Sydney respectively…

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Slippery Jim said  | October 27th 2008 @ 10:19am | Report comment

Pippu, I gather the gist of it will be that Ben Williams is a fine upstanding ref, one that even the Violence cannot intimidate into giving decisions their way, due to his commitment to honesty and integrity? I applaud your honest appraisal of the situation, in advance, and thank you for not letting disrespect for referees creep into your articles.

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Redb said  | October 27th 2008 @ 10:25am | Report comment

SJ,

I too have watched a few game of soccer lately I can’t understand how they don’t get knackered in a penalty situation? Oh yeah the opposition players all line up with their hands over the balls (touching themselves up in full public view). Perhaps they need a feel-o-meter in soccah to assess un-necessary ball handling.

Methinks they should play a certain song by the Divinyls over the stadium’s loud speakers at this time.

Redb

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Michael C said  | October 27th 2008 @ 10:26am | Report comment

Millster -

and what’s your take on that?

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Koala Bear said  | October 27th 2008 @ 11:03am | Report comment

where’s your evidence for Football’s growing popularity in Australia…

MC,
I think the evidence is clear enough for all to see, with greater exposure, more clubs wanting to join the HAL, more sponsorship and the “Australian National Football team” (the real one - thank you Millster) doing well with greater numbers; never seen before … the ABC Insiders now focusing more and more on Football and lesser of a degree on Marn Grook .. Grooky to some .. But most encouraging is of Pipp, a Marn Grook advocate writing for the 442 without mentioning Marn Grook tho I shall reserve the right to acknowledge that point until I do… Yes, there is ample evidence of Football’s growth as this article in essence is what it’s all about … “The Smell the Fear” is an enormous indicator when the Grooky folk come to be the the first poster to put up a post on an article such as this one… Yes indeed, the evidence is clear for all us football tragics to see …

~~~~~
KB

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Millster said  | October 27th 2008 @ 11:22am | Report comment

MC - just an observation that a big game of club football in a 5 year old league is matching crowd sizes already with (admittedly minor / hybrid) internationals. Probably nothing really analytically robust, but still gives me a warm inner glow…

More broadly I don’t think the issue is with popularity per se. It is with commercialisation - taking the general goodwill from broad grass-roots participation in the game across the nation plus the benefits of the global hyper-star / hyper-team adherence, and turning that into ticket sales and memberships.

PS: Redb - loved “medieval history”… until I remembered that my AFL team is the Saints

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Michael C said  | October 27th 2008 @ 11:28am | Report comment

KB -

AFL season is done for the year……..the only inference you can take from ABC insiders will be that soccer get’s more or less coverage relative to the RL WC!!!!

now - - more clubs wanting to join the HAL………..yes…..excellent…….it’s still bargain basement entry fee and ranking a bit better than the basketball. I recall a huge number of clubs that variously had a crack at the NSL - - no surprise there’s people queing up trying to repeat the dose in the HAL…………what are you hoping this prooves???

Socceroos have for over 10 years drawn well - for a decent match - - just ask those who attended the ‘G for the Iran game over 10 years ago. THe popularity has always been there - - just not ‘exploited’ or ‘exploitable’.

and the HAL……….well……….still struggling in year number 4, 9 rounds in and still year to crack the magical ‘60K’ round crowd aggregate tally……..even having used up 1 MVFC v SFC ‘wildcard’ at Telstra Dome.

Crowds are running at 60K down on V3.

Adelaide United return home to bask in glory…….and only 10K turn up. You’d get that many at the airport……..surely!!!!

Ironically, the big increase last year in crowds was due predominantly to Wellington Phoenix - - up 80K compared to NZ Knights.
This year thus far, 5 home games in, and they are down by 22K. 4 steps forward, 2 steps back……………but,………….is it fair to count NZ in the figures either way??? But, last year we heard so much about these rising crowds……….that 67% came from NZ.

And so, still, 9 games in, and EVERY team has reduced home crowds compared to last year. MVFC have probably fired their best shot for the year with a hosting of SFC although they DO have one left. Maybe, maybe………

I think there’s ample ‘beat up’ about soccers growth……….but real hard evidence……….what you probably need is media mentions and things like that…………off you go……..start finding the evidence and present it rather than your baseless conclusions.

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dasilva said  | October 27th 2008 @ 11:30am | Report comment

Good news for you Pippinu

FFA gives green light to flag - AAP on The World Game

The banning of the Eureka flag at A-League matches was ‘unintended’ according to Football Federation Australia (FFA) CEO Ben Buckley, in response to reports in The Age newspaper.

Under FFA’s code of spectator behaviour no ‘flag or emblem which might be considered national or political’ is permitted at games.

“It had been caught up in a wider review undertaken prior to the start of the Hyundai A-League to ensure that national or political flags are not brought into games inappropriately,” Buckley said.

“In this instance, I believe it’s a case of the interpretation of ‘political’ going too far and the ban has been an unintended consequence of our spectator code of behaviour.”

Buckley said that FFA and the A-League clubs had worked hard to improve the perception of football and to eradicate disruptive behaviour from some supporters.

“I wouldn’t want supporters using the Eureka flag to take this as a sign that any disruptive or inappropriate behaviour is condoned,” Buckley said.

“It’s not. We will continue to have a zero tolerance attitude towards such behaviour and, if they don’t comply with our spectator code, then their flag might be seeing more of matches than they do.”

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Redb said  | October 27th 2008 @ 11:53am | Report comment

KB,

I watched the Offsiders and there is one inescapable fact - the AFL finished a month ago.

Redb

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Michael C said  | October 27th 2008 @ 11:58am | Report comment

Millster -

one crowd in first 9 rounds (36 matches) over 30K. If that’s the only measure, then, same as last year. Does that make you happy?

However, this time last year, only 9 sub 10K crowds all up, so far th