Aussies love to bash their sporting stars [Pt. 2]

Midfielder said  | October 30th 2008 @ 7:25am | Report comment

Now for your next test ……..using crystal ball what will be the point score in 10 years.

Tennis interesting place you have placed it, most would have tennis much higher, but I think you are right.

Tennis has no domestic sporting competitions could be a warning to the ARU, without strong domestic competitions you can go on a bit of a slide.

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Millster said  | October 30th 2008 @ 8:22am | Report comment

Redb - its ok. The Socceroos classic above all classics uniform was awarded a 1 while the cricket whites (test) / canary yellow (ODI) got a 10 and the kangas “lets stitch a big yellow V onto a green jumper bought at KMart” effort got an 8. So this is very much in the eye of the beholder! Hard for AFL to rank well anyway because this is about national teams. Everyone knows you’d do much better if we were also looking at domestic level. Probably #2 behind football

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Koala Bear said  | October 30th 2008 @ 9:04am | Report comment

David,
The only thing I can see wrong with this list is the name Socceroos (although I dd support it in 1974 - 2006 ) However, as Football is well firmly entrenched as No. 1.. We should now change the name to the “Footballroos”.. At the other end I firmly endorse the Galahs position at no. 15 with 30pts only, and the nickname; how appropriate… But nonetheless, they have my 110% support and backing, as a proud Australian; even if their supporters squawk relentlessly about the unfair Fed’s support for a FIFA 2018 WC to be Staged on Australian soil…. Very unAustralian….

~~~~~~~~
KB

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sheek said  | October 30th 2008 @ 10:34am | Report comment

David - very clever, & entertaining. Some random thoughts.

Re stength of domestic comps. I once thought in this supposedly shrinking world because of globalisation, that true internationalisation of a sport was essential for domestic success. WRONG!

AFL & rugby league can survive another millenium as long as Australians continue to love their product. If soccer & especially rugby union want strong domestic success, their greater world games alone won’t help them. They have to get their hands dirty, building the game up from the ground, especially rugby union.

The national cricket team doesn’t have an emblem/mascot, though unofficially many people, including me, want to refer to the test team as the ‘Baggy Greens’. Traditionally, the Aussie cricketer has been depicted as a kangaroo wearing a baggy green.

There’s no reason why you can’t have the kangaroo wearing the baggy green, as the emblem/mascot of the national cricket team. Of course, you can’t call them the ‘Kangaroos’, as the leagueies already have that, but you can call them ‘Baggy Greens’.

Another suggestion for the national cricket team, which in this case would also apply to the ODI side, is ‘Emus’. The other mascot on our national coat of arms is continuously forgotten. Like the Kangaroo & Wallaby, the Emu can’t take a backward step naturally.

Speaking of Emu, it would be an ideal name for the Athletics team, or at least the track section. Because as we all know…..”nah, nah, nanah nah, (the emu) can run the pants off a kangaroo”. Perhaps the field section could be called the ‘Wombats’ - smelling but strong!

Some years ago, Athletics caught a broadside attempting to adopt the ‘Diggers’ moniker, which is associated with our fighting men from various wars. But I ask the question - what if a team wanted to call themselves ‘Diggers’ after our goldmining tradition?
‘
I agree Socceroos’ is an outdated term, but what’s the alternative? Poor old man emu is still available, folks! As a compromise, I can think of ‘FootyRoos’. It has a very Aussie ring to it, as all the codes refer to their game as “footy”.

Re outfits, I like the current Wallabies, Socceroos & Kangaroos jumpers. I think the southern cross has been a wonderful addition to the rugby union & cricket ODI teams. I thought the best Socceroos apparel was back in 1997. I don’t think that uniform should be warehoused simply because of the associated bad memories.

Redb,

Let’s stop pretending AFL is an international game - YOU GALAH!!! In fact, rejoice in the fact it’s an Australian only game. There are advantages of not having your national club season interrupted by interstate & international duties.

Look at poor old rugby union. The Wallabies will soon be playing 20 internationals a year, because they seem to be the only buggers who can make any money for the code.

Leading Wallabies have hardly played a game for their local clubs in 12 years. George Gregan joined Randwick in 1996, & played his last year in 2007. In that time I recall him wearing the famous myrtle green jumper just once.

Now you won’t that sort of thing happening in AFL, would you? So rejoice again, the fact the game is only seriously played in Australia!

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Redb said  | October 30th 2008 @ 10:50am | Report comment

Sheek,

I’d prefer the cassowary over the galah! At least it’s got some ooomphh! and if you believe those road signs in northern Queensland those birds can clean up whole cars.

I’m fan of International Rules and I’m a fan of Aussie Rules finding its way into the big wide world, the days of isolation of over. Populate or perish - can’t take the risk of limiting the game to just Oz. As the South African captain of the International Cup side recently said, Aussie Rules is too good to be only be played in Australia.

Below is a staggering quote from the AFL’s Dave Matthews in response to Keivn Sheedy’s suggestion of making all indigenous players exempt from the salary cap to expand the talent pool of the AFL with two new teams in coming years:

“AFL game development manager Dave Matthews said the league took Sheedy’s idea seriously, but the expansion of the AFL talent pool was likely to come from international players.”

You would not heard that from an AFL official even 2 years ago.

Redb

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El Capitan said  | October 30th 2008 @ 11:46am | Report comment

True Tah,

Warrigals is already in use at Mt Isa, for the local rugby team.

A proud team that has produced many fine Qld Country Players in the 70’s and 80’s.

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Redb said  | October 30th 2008 @ 12:52pm | Report comment

Chris,

I’m sure you meant deluded or perhaps diluted after several pints.

You keep telling us Aussie Rules folk that, if you don’t try you’ll never know. Globalisation works both ways, no doubt footy has a bigger mountain to climb that any other football code in Australia - let’s leave it at that.

Redb

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Lazza said  | October 30th 2008 @ 12:53pm | Report comment

Redb,

When the founding fathers decided to play Aussie Rules on gigantic Cricket ovals they immediately restricted forever where the game could be played?

I’ve heard the AFL admit this themselves, there are only half a dozen venues around the World where you can play a game. Not surprisingly, they are targeting Cricket countries like India and Sth Africa.

They don’t expect any international leagues to develop Redb, they are much more realistic about this than you seem to be. All they want is for the overseas Pay TV ratings to register a bit of a ‘pulse’.

Pay TV companies around the world have many hours on their sports channels that they need to fill. If your ratings are close to zero then you can’t expect to get too much money for it.

Just rejoice that it’s our sport and part of our culture. Despite the rise of Football in Ireland, there doesn’t seem to be any decline in Gaelic Football?

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Redb said  | October 30th 2008 @ 1:46pm | Report comment

Lazza,

I haven;t made any claims on the growth Aussie Rules internationally. However there is some belief that player ranks can eventually come from other countries - that may well be 10-20 years away. Who knows if you don’t try, if you read my comment I said you would not here that even 2 years ago from an AFL official.

There are cricket ovals in several countries. If you can find the quote from the AFL about what you heard I’d be interested to read it and assess the context.

This is all very early days and no-one is making claims.

Millster,

Comparing an amateur comp in gaelic football to the professional AFL is wrong. Comparing Sumo wrestling is laughable. I think you’ll find all Aussie Rules needs is about 1-2% of a sporting population in another country to grow the talent pool for the AFL - there is a void between soccer and rugby/grid iron that Aussie Rules could fit the bill.

If AFL fans in the past have said the game will take over the world that would be delusional, to assume that once structures are established in other countries that no-one would be interested in playing it, is potentially delusional as well. We’ll see - the AFL is not about to sell the farm to achieve it, but why should it shut the door onthe possibility?

Redb

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True Tah said  | October 30th 2008 @ 2:04pm | Report comment

Lazza,

the rise of futbol in Ireland, as a participation sport it would be no. 1 and no doubt many Irish are interested in Liverpool, but as a spectator sport domestically it would come behind GAA and rugby, although rugby really is the only real professional domestic sport with decent domestic teams in Ireland.

I can recall when the Irish futbol side qualified for the World Cup, their officials were heard to start screaming out “you can stick your GAA up your a**e”.

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Redb said  | October 30th 2008 @ 2:28pm | Report comment

Millster,

I dont think your analogy is valid. I was not questioning japan’s attachment to Sumo wrestling, but your implying that Aussie Rules is such a different sport (like Sumo) that it wont take hold elsewhere.

There are already 35,000 amatuers playing Aussie Rules around the world now. How many sumo wrestlers outside of Japan are there?

Redb

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oikee said  | October 30th 2008 @ 2:36pm | Report comment

Millster , that reasoning is just plain silly, we have not got any sumos here in oz, but we do have some guys with bellies who could make the grade. Not to sure how they would look in a thong.

I am very happy to be running 5th on the scale, i think we can knock off the swimming without to much trouble.

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oikee said  | October 30th 2008 @ 2:44pm | Report comment

Can understand where you are coming from K.B but as i have and you have said, its a ironic name and associated with a winning team, has been for the last 100 years, also you have said that with the soccer team it is becoming a joke, what i surgest is , if you change the name then all the name be removed, the Australian Kangaroos have the upmost respect from other countries, we would not take shite from iraq. You know as well as me that soccer teams give little respect for the losing team. Hence the disrespecting of the kangaroo shown by Iraq.

Think about this when you want your name changed, to me you have to earn the right to be called Kangaroos.

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Redb said  | October 30th 2008 @ 2:47pm | Report comment

thanks dasilva,

i’ll take the other course now and thank you for proving Millster wrong about Sumo Wrestling’s international footprint.

I’d still put my money on Aussie Rules having a better chance of growth, at least its about keeping you fit.

Redb

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oikee said  | October 30th 2008 @ 2:56pm | Report comment

No worries Millster, my last post was mainly tongue in cheek about the sumos. The scale, at the top of the page of course, thats what the topic is about.

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Michael C said  | October 30th 2008 @ 2:59pm | Report comment

Redb et al -

I must say - - I’ve found the AFL IR uniform pretty damn decent, the dominance of the deep blue plus the prominant coat of arms, and then the not garish green and gold element………….it’s relatively under stated, and dignified - - I’m quite leaning towards buying one at the ‘G tomorrow night.

see jumper here:
http://www.theroar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/ireland-interntional-rules.jpg

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Millster said  | October 30th 2008 @ 3:10pm | Report comment

RedB - we’re off the main reason for bringing this whole thing up. Who cares about body shape etc. The original point, and the only one I was making, is that there are some very proud and successful sports that will never be meaningfully international and nor should they be. They are intimately linked with the one nation. Sumo is Japan’s. AFL is Australia’s. NFL is Americas. Sure small pockets of offshore adherence, but none of them will ever be ‘world games’. And on that most basic of comparisons, AFL and Sumo stand alongside each other as good examples.

My argument is with the presumption that the only path to success is to make a sport international. NFL and AFL are living breathing proof that massive success can occur in games that are totally domestic. So why try and tread a path that does not fit the sport you love, just because its the path that other sports with competey different backgrounds and contexts have taken? I see that as a recipe for eroding, not building on the success. As Oikee said in another post, its time to be creative.

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Millster said  | October 30th 2008 @ 3:14pm | Report comment

MC - as you may know the ‘away’ strip for the socceroos is also predominantly blue, with green and gold quite subtle. I agree that it is a beautiful combination. Have had a look at the IR uniforms and think the same, though the “sash” in the IR case could be even more subtle..

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Michael C said  | October 30th 2008 @ 3:21pm | Report comment

oikee-

depends if you wanna be predominantly green and gold or not………..for me, I’ve always figured green and gold belonged on a tree………but, then, traditionally thought that blue and green don’t work with no colour in between.

because in the IR’s matches, the Irish wear effectively green and gold, and we so often see the South africans in forms of green and yellow………to me……….it’s lost something, and just starts looking like some variant of the WSC cricket uniform which changed from year to year and has covered off about every possibility in combination with other ’satellite’ and more inclusive (WC and Champions Trophy) cricket tournaments.

That’s why the ’something different’ about these AFL IR one’s kinda appeals to me.

Millster -

re the sash - tend to agree, I’m trying to recall, I think the best version of the jumper was about 4 years ago. I’ll see if I can find a piccie.

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Michael C said  | October 30th 2008 @ 3:34pm | Report comment

oikee - fyi

http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php?story=20080716140726478

above is a link to see the various jumpers that were worn to the AFL International Cup 2 months back.

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Millster said  | October 30th 2008 @ 3:38pm | Report comment

Also on brands remember that the most famous EPL clubs change their home and away shirts each season (cynically of course, so that fans have to buy new ones each year). Likewise each time there is a World Cup the national teams change a bit. Socceroos shirts have certainly changed quite a lot over the last 10-15 years! So I don’t agree that a shirt or jersey has to stay identical year-in year-out.

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dasilva said  | October 30th 2008 @ 4:02pm | Report comment

Millster actually has a good point. Sumo wrestling decline in Japan has been linked with foreigners influence in the game. That’s why they are talking about banning foreigners in sumo wrestling. trying to internationalise the game of AFL may have negative consequences (although saying that . I doubt Australia will have a problem with a competitive international team who become world champion of AFL and chalenge Australia like the Japanese have a problem with foreigners doing well in sumo wrestling. I’m hoping we are much more tolerant then the japanese are. then again there is the foreigner issue in the Melbourne Cup)

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True Tah said  | October 30th 2008 @ 5:02pm | Report comment

dasilva,

I thought one of the reasons for decline in Sumo was that it was incredibly coming under corruption and results were being fixed - Stephen Levett, an American economist, looked at this as part of his work.

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oikee said  | October 30th 2008 @ 5:17pm | Report comment

Your right K.B they cant and dont have any right to the name but i would not like to be in footballs shoes if they turned around and told the aussie public we are now going to call ourselves the football kangaroos, or kangaroos which they would sneakily adopt. So you are stealing a brand of invincability for your own short-comings. Then you will weaken the brand by not winning all the time, next thing you know we will have kangaroos (puppets)being burned all over the world. So you not only upset the football fans here, you then have the locals off-side.

Think through the name before you take a new one, you still have plenty of time to adopt a new name without stealing a great name like the kangaroos. After all, the socceroos really still have not acheived all that much, i know you will argue but really, what is their to win? a world cup. Do you play tri nations? or any other comp.? Just friendlies and qualifiyers for 4 years trying to win a cup. ? You should take some time and have a look at the rugby leagues trophy cabinet. Might give you too much of a shock.

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Koala Bear said  | October 30th 2008 @ 5:58pm | Report comment

Oikee,
just to let you in on a little secret the first Rugby League test the ARL played in; was in the colours of sky blue and maroon hoops.. daaa .. Surely you would have seen that at the SCG centenary test against NZ I did ..?. If I am wrong I will apologize and never ask you again for permission to call the Australian National Football Team to be known hence forth as the Kangaroos..

Now the North Melbourne Grooky club was known as the Kangaroos on the Gold Coast, and surprise, surprise, no fire bombing, burning of cars, or riots, in the streets of Carrara. Not that many turned up anyway; unless they received a freebie like I did courtesy from my late magpie mate who use to live next door… who escorted me kicking and punching all the way if you want to call that a riot.. But as for the ARL winning games against the PNG or the Lebanese as mile stones for international supremacy .. Gotta say then, the Kangaroo jersey would be better in the hands with the Australian National Football Team known by the rest of the world of some 6 billion inhabitants as the Kangaroos…

~~~~~~~
KB

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True Tah said  | October 30th 2008 @ 6:26pm | Report comment

dasilva,

many of the old school Japanese are a bit more insular and Sumo is largely the domain of the old school Japanese…it really is becoming a dying sport in Japan. Thats probably why they want the foreigners out.

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Koala Bear said  | October 30th 2008 @ 6:44pm | Report comment

Midfield,
you may well be surprised that in most parts of Europe the perception is Kangaroos Not Socceroos .. I can even remember the commentary team 2006 of English speaking people replying with some astonishment of the name of Socceroos, but said, if it is that, then that, it is; with a sly chuckle… No, I think it’s totally out dated for the 21st century and we need to rid us of the name soccer as we did with the formation of the new administration of Football Federation Australia Limited with the dumping of Soccer Australia.. It does have to be done; to make a statement in this country; or it will remain a second tier code with continued put downs from the other code’s scribblers like the Grooky in slavers and others … TT calls us Futbol, which is fine, however most refer to us as soccer; I can’t stop them, but if we want to seriously market the game towards 2018 we need to understand what we are and that’s Football and Kangaroos… I am not suggesting for one moment that no other code need to change their make up, (sorry except Marn Grook) but we do.. Or slip back to the NSL days, surly you do not want that to happen.. ?

~~~~~~~
KB

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Midfielder said  | October 30th 2008 @ 6:58pm | Report comment

Das

You are so Right ……… part of the growing of football will be to coming to grips with its past …….. accept what was wrong and stop the blame game ……… this is not saying in the past and now the general media have been nice ……… but part of growing up is reconciling with the past and moving forward with lessons learned and confidence in both the game and the people who run it ……. and in time I hope the media ……..

I have often posted before that the A-League is not ready for FTA as the quality of games is not at a level to take off. But as we need extra teams and improved coaching and better players and refs ………. we also need more people in the media and quality people ……. also some of the aging Socceroos hopefully will get media gigs both Bozza & Aloisi work well with the media and both are very knowledgeable as well, so hopefully they get media contracts.

But the Socceroos is Australia best with day light second sporting brand ….don’t stuff up our best asset.

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Koala Bear said  | October 30th 2008 @ 7:44pm | Report comment

Midfielder,
last post for tonight as my hands are aching.. I’m not fussed over Footballroos either and yes it would be a good idea to have a competition and get a name that fits .. However, Kangaroos is really what the world thinks that we are .. I know people like Oikee would object to that, but no one is asking for the ARL to drop its nickname as in its own context it will have significant recognition.. and in our Football in our environment it will not be a problem, as we Australians all over the world are known as Kangaroos.. So I can’t see why the name can’t be shared… signing off will continue to discuss tomorrow …
“Southern Cross Lards”..

~~~~~~~~
KB

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