A-League crowds will be down 133k this season

True Tah said  | November 4th 2008 @ 8:24am | Report comment

MC,

I think Sydney FC’s crowds will increase following last weekends game, and Adelaide shoudl increase on the back of a successful ACL campaign (it already is a success). MV are doing pretty well do.

The big problems are Perth, Wellington and Queensland Roar, the Roar should be dominating, but there are talks about going to Ballymore, why would they do that?

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Dave said  | November 4th 2008 @ 8:42am | Report comment

TT

QR are moving admin to Ballymore. At this stage no movement of games there but it must be expensive to hire Suncorp. l dont know what the crowd break even figure is but they would need more than 13,000 ave me thinks.
Is Ballymore close to the city centre and does it have good access, public transport? What is its capacity?

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Slippery Jim said  | November 4th 2008 @ 8:54am | Report comment

Shouldn’t this article be under the “AFL” propaganda tab?

Couldn’t you have just put it in one line Michael C - ‘attendances are down in the A-League - good times for football haters everywhere’…I just can’t see the point of this article except to have a cheap gloat, it doesn’t say anything relevant at all.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

oikee said  | November 4th 2008 @ 9:18am | Report comment

It does say something to me slippery jim, times are tough and i dont think rugby league will be expanding in a hurry, not after last years lousy crowds, think we had a couple of games where we only had 6 thousand turn up. Bottom teams yes, but still its not a good look when you think that AFL had a increase of everything across the board. And things wont improve for league but soccer has the best chance to improve and considering hard times is doing ok.

That move to ballymore would obviously be to save money, they are taking a pounding in brisbane with the roar gate not acheiving as planned, so a move to a smaller ground would be good for them at the momment. Once the crowds pick up then you just move back, no big deal. Also dont forget the roar can get 40 thousand when they are winning towards the end of the season. Brisbane mentality is they love winners, they would get behind the queensland reds if they were winning.

Losing is something we are not accustomed too.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Towser said  | November 4th 2008 @ 10:04am | Report comment

. I predicted a major drop in crowds this year ages ago. In fact 133K is conservative. I predict more in fact. More like 200-250k in line historically with the MLS & J-League.
Dont even need to super analyse the figures .Just need to go to Roar matches at home & watch whats presented on the park. Is it better than season 3-No or season 1 maybe. Probably on a par with season 2.
Most Roar fans except the rose coloured glasses brigade feel the same. Hence the crowd drop till football reaches a standard that for my team the Roar deserves the average of 17,000 last year.
The last home game was abysmal & deja vu resulting in an outporing of emotion by Roar fans & an article in the Courier Mail by their leading sports columnist expressing the fans discontent.
So Dave theres your explanation for the Roars crowds this season . Pure & simply the display at home over the 4 seasons.
I would say in one way or another in differing ways but for the same basic reason-football standard this would apply to other clubs.
The one shining light is the quality of football shown by AU in the ACL. That is a more keeping possession sharp passing technical game. As I said in a previous post this is the same Adelaide United who beat the Roar at Suncorp the other week & played to the opposition. In other words the aerial long ball heading ping pong garbage was paramount. As I may have said before the ultra critical Frenchman next to me called it “Park Football” he wasn’t coming back anytime soon.. Fans leaving the stadium including me couldn’t disagree. Hence the forthcoming newspaper article.
As more teams participate in the ACL the influence of Asian clubs on our A-League will increase. Will CCM & NUJ play kick & rush football next year in the ACL. Not likely if they wish to progress past the first round & pocket some more cash.

The only thing in this article that I would acknowledge is the mention of the Wellington Phoenix.
I’m starting to get a deja -vu NZ Knights feel about them.
Not good.

Dave

Regarding Ballymore. Its close to the city. In particular its close to me. 10 minutes drive away. But Suncorp is only 3 minutes more so personally neither are an issue.
Some fans have complained that it is less accessible to them than Suncorp & I get their point. Particularly those who come by train from the outer suburbs. They will have to change to go to Ballymore rather than just walk to the ground from the station as per Suncorp. But I’m sure Shuttle buses etc could be arranged.
Lets face it Rugby fans used it for years & they seemed to have no problem getting there & filling it on occassions.
As for the ground itself ,the training surface is better than Richlands(origonal Roar base) according to Craig Moore when the Socceroos trained there before the Qatar match. There is talk of a major upgrade to Ballymore so that its all seated(depending on funds available) so if this happens I see the Roar playing there as its capacity(25,000) is more suited to their crowds except for one or twothat could be moved to Suncorp anyway.
Personally either way I dont care both grounds suit me. I’m more concerned that the Roar improve their showing at home than where they play to be honest.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Towser said  | November 4th 2008 @ 10:15am | Report comment

Oikee

Cannot disagre with the “winning ” mentality in Brisbane.
Regardless of what the Roar do away their home record is hampering their ability to grow in Brisbane.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Koala Bear said  | November 4th 2008 @ 12:24pm | Report comment

There he goes again… I’m speechless.. I have no speech Mr Christian … Enough of you, you Grooky vagabond ..

This year has definitely been the hardest; several reasons why with the distractions of the China Olympics and NRL WC and Marn Grook false centenary celebrations; with recession talk that may soon be imminent.. However, I have noticed that, (although I have not made any real study into this) the fact that the home teams have lost more often at home than on the road is to my mind the major factor of the drop in attendances .. But my gut feeling is as Dave has pointed out that, the tide is finally turning on this season; it still may end up below last season’s figures.. However, I take comfort when MC writes a negative article; just after a good round of HAL figures ..

I like to think he is my barometer; when he writes negatively; things in Football terms are starting to rise, and when he does not write then you know the position is bad .. Ho hum… Off to the CRSL for the cup .. tally ho Football lover, Football will win in the end.. with the federal government to pour more and more taxpayers dollars into the FFA coffers… good on ya Kev2018….

~~~~~~~~~
KB

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Millster said  | November 4th 2008 @ 4:44pm | Report comment

Zero cheers says it all in terms of this article.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Michael C said  | November 4th 2008 @ 7:49pm | Report comment

Millster -

just thought I’d put some numbers to it………..critical analysis is bereft if unquantified.

Towser -

the ‘worst case’ scenario using the methodology was -236K, and the mid case was -186K.

Just in general guys - - it’s more about ‘expectations’. And - - I reckon Oikee was about the only one to really pick up on the purpose of all this. The potential expansion plans for several codes may well be getting slight delays - - because, even if Australia copes better with the GFC than most others, if the HAL is suffering in this manner so soon, then, how much worse will it all get before it gets better?

Lazza -
and Adelaide United are such a prime example - - that the ACL is making clear that people are making a ‘choice’ re. the football attendance………i.e. if they go to the ACL, then they quite likely won’t be going to the HAL. How much HAL soccer impacts AFL in Adelaide, who really knows - - but, good on Ade Utd for making themselves ‘hot’ by NOT switching out of Hindmarsh.

btw - showdown 1 in rnd 3, the Crows home match drew over 45K, and showdown 2 for 2008, a Power home match drew just under 32K - back in Rnd 16,…….where a few players such as Chad Cornes were playing that week ONLY because it was a ’showdown’ and then went straight off to surgery paddocks, as Power had about 4 weeks earlier already pulled the pin on the season.

btw -
I was off today, Cup day and all, so, I thunked I’d best leave a couple of threads so anyone who wanted could have a go at me any time during the day.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Joe FC said  | November 4th 2008 @ 8:35pm | Report comment

-”so anyone who wanted could have a go at me any time during the day” - still wrestling with the victim syndrome Michael C?

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Westy said  | November 4th 2008 @ 8:58pm | Report comment

I think it is important to also be aware that the 8 team by three rounds is becoming a little monotonous. There is only so many times Mariers v Pheonix grabs you……Remember the two teams of real concern are Sydney and the Roar….I have thought about this and honestly believe that unlike Melbourne Victory 30000/35000 Sydney fc are a good 18000 /20000 no more and in as emi or grand final could fill the SFS. Sydney in the long term needs a second team aiming for another 10000/15000 crowd target. Sydney FC as presently constituted will never be a Melbourne Victory
The Roar has had the biggest drop in crowds. I seriously wonder if this has got to do with their basic inability to win at home. Their home results are terrible.
It may well be that the A league needs new blood to reinvigorate variety . The Gold Coast will be a good fit although I still have doubts about Townsville. No one should have any doubt about the Gong. Illawarra or the South Coast will be a powerful and well supported competitior.Not so sure about the second Melbourne team at the moment.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

keeper11 said  | November 4th 2008 @ 10:35pm | Report comment

..and the point of this article???

Do i smell something emanating from the exclusive club that is the backrooms of the ‘footy’ establishment club and their media masters ???

Maybe I missed them…but how come I haven’t seen any of the following aricles that present an alternate view?

- are the socceroos now arguably the biggest national football team drawcard in the country?
especially compared to the anemic turnouts to the much over-hyped Kangaroos..who can’t fill a stdium for love or money…
..
-In light of the above…should the league team still deserve ..umm 20x the media coverage and support of our true national and more popular team ..the socceroos?

- The NRL in its so-called centenary year celebrations ..crowds down 2.5%….7% in sydney..
Only average about 2000 more than A-league despite ..100year history and …oh 50x more media support
Please discuss….

and..

- Can rugby league sellout ANY game these days despite saturation media support?? i.e. state of O, test matches, semis, grand final….umm nope…..

Oh..did I hear something about vested media interests……

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

paul said  | November 5th 2008 @ 12:46am | Report comment

Comparing NRL averages to aleague is apples and oranges. There are 8 games a week compared to 4, take out melb victory and the average is quite poor indeed.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

True Tah said  | November 5th 2008 @ 8:31am | Report comment

keeper11,

NRL final drew over 80k, that is impressive in any code for a final anywhere. The HAL final drew 36K, I know it was two out of town sides, but they are still within a 3 hour drive from Sydney, but when the HAL can draw 80k to its final, then maybe your argument might have some legs.

Comparing HAL crowds with NRL is ridiculous, NRL has too many sides in Sydney as it is, and Sydney FC are not getting 25K plus crowds every week.

The RL World Cup might be a joke to you, but so far it has averaged over 15K per game. In any event, I have no doubts the next Socceroo game will get its turn in the sun with the next WCQ coming up shortly, the Qatar game got a fair amount of coverage/

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Michael C said  | November 5th 2008 @ 9:14am | Report comment

Clutch Cable - that would be a useful exercise. (not!)

Although, your initial assertion is quite wrong - - there have been crowds at Aust Football exhibition matches overseas. But, please, go ahead and do so. And the point would be?

Victer -

I’ve put before the argument that if the HAL crowds are benchmarked internationally and even just vs the NRL - - then, everything is pretty rosey. I’ve cautioned against viewing the AFL as any form of benchmark. I think that’s unhealthy. I do believe some soccer folk have got ahead of themselves a tad. And, too, perhaps some of the ’smell the fear’ rhetoric on both sides is unwarranted by the actuality. After all, very few ’sports’ in Australia operate in a vacuum with a perfectly linear upward growth profile across the board.

The interesting phenomena is that because of the sporting mix of Australia, it isn’t a given that strong socceroos equals strong HAL.

The main reason I put this article out, was that in the national press and article was recently published that effectively mirrored the round X of V3 vs round X of V4 comparative figures that I’ve published here on theRoar. Perhaps, just perhaps, people in ‘high’ places do monitor our activity?? So - - I couldn’t really just do ‘more of the same’, so, at this point, make a statistical prediction and then I’ll shut up about it.

Deal???

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Millster said  | November 5th 2008 @ 9:46am | Report comment

On the broader point, while it is a common theme from MC and maybe was not worth repeating in this article yet again, I do think there is some value in what is happening to the HAL.

Years 1 to 3 were undoubtedly a good start (or, to please some, re-start). There was the excitement of a new comp, a better handling of the media coverage, and of course the ‘riding the wave’ of the Socceroos exploits at WC2006.

We now see the league ‘taking a breath’. And we have rightfully observed that some analogous leagues (eg J-League, MLS) have done the same in their 4th or 5th seasons and then resumed growth. Others - most notably the Chinese League - have seen the retreat in attendances after the first handful of seasons become entrenched, and sadly have not recovered onto a growth curve despite the latent interest in the game and the decent standard of their league.

I guess what I’m saying is that if V4 crowd figures rattle the FFA cage a bit, shock a few people that might have been becoming a touch complacent out of their taking football and HAL growth for granted, and really give us a ‘next level’ of focus then it may just be a good thing. No-one can assume that the growth will resume unless we plan and work for it.

Where I do agree wtih MC is that we should not benchamrk against other Aussie sports which have completely different characteristics. If we get to the point where we have a decently supported domestic league that is competitive in Asia, that spits out the odd star player into the bigger clubs around the world and also into the Socceroo machine, and that offers a good product (both live and on TV) to the fans here - with one vital ingredient being having the right infrastructure in place - then thats cool with me. As I’ve written many times before, if we can aim in the mid-term (~3yrs) to have average normal-season HAL attendances of 15K with no club dropping below 10K per match, in a 10 or 12 club competition, then we will have done pretty well for ourselves and would be the envy of many other ’second tier’ leagues in the world.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Towser said  | November 5th 2008 @ 10:14am | Report comment

http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/football/a-league/road-to-acl-riches-about-to-get-even-more-congested/2008/11/04/1225560841369.html

Millster

Arent you setting your own football benchmarks by expecting certain average & bottom line figures in a set time frame?
There is only one benchmark the standard of football presented on the park as I stated above regarding the Roar.
This will be determined by the AFC & its requirements not the FFA as I discussed with you on another opinion piece.
So whilst we can compare with the MLS & the J-League at the same stage of development this is flawed in one major aspect. Neither had a higher organisation pushing them to professionalise their Leagues. See SMH article again(above) & quote:-

“What’s clear is that the A-League will have to get better, smarter and leaner in everything it does. Ultimately, that’s a good thing. In the meantime, we should savour Adelaide’s achievement. It may be a while before we taste such success again.”

Remember this quote everything the FFA does regarding the A-League is connected to it.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

True Tah said  | November 5th 2008 @ 10:18am | Report comment

Millster..you’re not alone there.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Michael C said  | November 5th 2008 @ 10:30am | Report comment

Towser -

interesting article. It will be a challenge - - - but, then, one challenge is testing a ‘champion team’ against a ‘team of champions’.

btw -
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22760901-5001023,00.html?from=public_rss

is a reminder that if soccer folk are going to try to stand atop a building and bare their butt to other sports during the good times - - (just 3 years in), then be ready to take hits back.

FFA head of commercial operations, John O’Sullivan, insisted the figures showed cricket was no longer the only show in town in summer.

He warned that soccer’s crowds would continue to increase and the game was on cricket’s tail. “Our numbers don’t lie,” he said.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Towser said  | November 5th 2008 @ 10:39am | Report comment

Michael C

THe old saying “people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones” applies to us all.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Towser said  | November 5th 2008 @ 11:15am | Report comment

http://www.wiseoldsayings.com/wosdirectory.htm

Michael C

The site above should provide you with old sayings for a lifetime.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

oikee said  | November 5th 2008 @ 11:49am | Report comment

Not too worried about comparisians to rugby league, i know the english league teams crowds have increased this year, next year might be a different story but they have 2 new teams coming in so i expect better crowd figure. If you need to compare Keeper 11 , try to do it with the union stats, they are alot bigger overseas. Baraka Obarma has won the ellection.
Hope he is a league fan.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Clutch Cable said  | November 5th 2008 @ 1:34pm | Report comment

“Baraka Obarma has won the ellection.
Hope he is a league fan.”

According to this article, an Obama win is actually a good sign for football (soccer) in America.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/the_big_picture/2008/10/would-obamas-el.html

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

True Tah said  | November 5th 2008 @ 1:47pm | Report comment

I always thought Basketball was Obama’s game.

Im sure plenty of fans of NFL/NBA/NHL and MLB would have voted for Obama too, and given that hes virtually won already, they must have.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Clutch Cable said  | November 5th 2008 @ 2:25pm | Report comment

Yeah to be honest I’m not exactly sure how an Obama victory has much to do with Major League Soccer, but thought it was an interesting and pretty topical read.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Michael C said  | November 5th 2008 @ 2:39pm | Report comment

Towser -

GC17 allowed for the internet for ‘potential’ fans to put forward suggestions etc - - as it turned out, with no clear winner, they defered it………..and therefore, at least listened to the less than coherant voice of the fans!!! Actually, AFL.com.au has been great in recent years in inviting input on rule propositions and the like.

Interesting the 4 yearly voting rights……….trying to give franchise ’subscribers’ a greater stakeholding. Given my AFL club North Melb finally reverted back to the traditional member based club with members having voting rights and all normal rights to form a ticket and run for the board. In the Australian context - - I’d think even that pseudo member base privately owned franchise model is worth considering…….especially in AFL cities.

btw - connecting via the internet - - - for whom is it the ’sporting sole domain’? The AFL for example gets a lot of pressure from those overseas for whom AFL.com.au is their only or most up to date interface. In the Australian demographic, you certainly couldn’t make any of those Obama/soccer assertions………….and, again, I reckon there’s overlap.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

True Tah said  | November 5th 2008 @ 2:58pm | Report comment

KB,

it doesnt mean anything of the sort, it means that Americans have voted to go with a dynamic new leader and made history in the process, and a change in American policy. In my opinion, the impact on the sports Americans are interest is not really too much of an issue here.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

oikee said  | November 5th 2008 @ 3:17pm | Report comment

Word has it M.C that one of the Johns boys has been working with those lucky irish lads and has givin away a few of his beauty tips, not with looks but with the ball. He has showed them how to kick the ball porperly, (unlike those round ball players, his skills would be greatly cherished) so there could be a upset on the cards. We will see, We willl see, “oh” to be sure, to be sure. Say that last line with a irish accent.
So this will be interesting and i think they only need to win by 7 to make the semi. The scots on the other hand, well, they dont seem to have any luck what so ever , i am surgesting that they might get a hammering by a side mind you that thinks it can knock off the big one. OZ …… Anyhow, thats like saying the socceroos will win the world cup.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

oikee said  | November 5th 2008 @ 3:23pm | Report comment

Shame i cant spell porperly.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

True Tah said  | November 5th 2008 @ 3:30pm | Report comment

KB,

are you talking about Colin Love - its not the rugby union, it was the rugby league, although you have overstated the figure.

However in light of your post, I will do my investigation, this is the first I have heard of a rugby union official getting over $1m to organise the 2003 RWC, but it could well be the case.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown:

Forgetmenot said  | November 5th 2008 @ 3:47pm | Report comment

Reading through the comments … there are alot of soccer fans stating that the article is written out of fear, and that it is a blatant attempt to put the sport down.
Maybe you like to see the world through rose coloured glasses, but the simple reality is, is that the A-league crowds have dropped.
Perhaps someone could do an analysis of the last 5 rounds of the AFL season to see how crowd growth/decline compares.
The drop in the soccer crowds can partially be attributed to the global financial crisis, as well as other issues (such as more soccer internationals, rugby league world cup, international rules series, Wallabies, US election etc).

Also a point for the website administrators, in Australia it is colour not color. The website dictionary tries to correct this.

Add a note on why the comment is inappropriate, and click the button below to confirm

Enter the text shown: