By Adrian Musolino
November 9th 2008 @ 6:02am
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Reflections on the ACL and A–League future
Was Adelaide United’s drubbing in the first leg of the Asian Champions League just a case of being outclassed by a better team on the night, or is it symbolic of the massive difference in financial clout between a salary capped A–League team against the unlimited budget of Asia’s best?
There can be no denying Adelaide were outclassed by the pace, slick passing and finishing of Gamba Osaka.
Adelaide, perhaps fatigued from its travels and battle weary after an agonising home defeat to Melbourne only days before heading to Japan, showed little in determination and the physical strength Australian clubs are renowned for in Asia on the continent’s biggest stage.
Even during the match, the post mortem on why Adelaide had been so overwhelmingly outclassed had begun and the consensus, pushing to one side the lacklustre on field performance, seemed to be the gulf between the salaries the two clubs have available to spend on their respective squads.
Next season A–League salary caps will increase to $2 million.
With expansion of the league already in progress and an economy in crisis, it is a necessity to ensure smaller clubs are not priced out of the competition.
But while it works for the A–League, it limits its clubs Champions League campaigns in both squad depth and the ability to sign big names.
So with such tight salary caps in place, will A–League clubs ever truly be able to compete against the might of Asia?
Consider also an additional effect that the Asian Champions League tilt will have on A–League sustainability. The campaign has increased the reputation of Australian players within Asia.
Already there is talk of Reds stars such as Travis Dodd and Sasa Ognenovski being head-hunted by Japanese clubs impressed by what they have seen.
Without the budget constraints of their Australian counterparts, J–League clubs have been known to offer big name players contracts in excess of a million dollars – half the salary cap for an A–League squad.
In addition, a recent change in the J–League will allow clubs to sign an extra import as long as they are from the Asian confederation.
With the Asian Champions League acting as a shop window for Asia to the quality of our home grown talent, how can A–League clubs hope to keep hold of these players when they cannot compete with the financial clout of Asia.
The successful move for clubs into Asia may have had one negative impact in attracting the unwanted attentions of cashed up clubs.
In order to grow as a sport within Australia, the A–League must retain its big names and homegrown stars.
With such restraints in place, can A–League clubs overcome the might of the J–League in the Asian Champions League?
It’s a case of whether a cashed up team of champions can outplay a champion team.
Underdog status is one that may force A–League clubs to rise to the occasion in the ACL and focus on skill, tactics and smarts.
As with Adelaide’s campaign this season, being the underdog may force the best out of them.
Let’s just hope the Reds show some of that form Wednesday night at Hindmarsh Stadium.
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Joe FC said | November 9th 2008 @ 10:19am | Report comment
Some interesting thoughts there Adrian. As far as the ACL final is concerned there is still a second leg to be contested, so Adelaide have some hope as slim as it is. Notwithstanding next Wednesday’s result the Reds knocked out Kashima & a Rivaldo inspired Bunyodkor, so I believe it has been shown that Australian clubs can compete against the best in Asia. This is only the fourth season for the HAL and with more clubs entering the competition the standard can only improve. I do not think we should be worried about the likelihood of losing some HAL players to Asian clubs as the lure of overseas opportunities will encourage increasing numbers of local talent to persist in their careers. The issue of salary caps and other artificial constraints is a complex one that must be subject to ongoing revision & evaluation. The future course of such devices will unfold over the years to come.
James Ward said | November 9th 2008 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
But the priority should be making the A - League affordable. I worry what influence expansion will have on the salary cap. Home grown players will be tempted to stay in the HAL as it allows them to play and make a living at home. Hopefully this is enough to keep them over the extra cash they can get in Asia.
westy said | November 9th 2008 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
It was 0 to nil at 32 minutes then Adalaide gifted them two chances through their defensive mistakes. Osaka like the good side they are made them play. The Jleague has been building for 15 years and although it is ahead it is not 15 years in front. The difference was that Adelaide got themselves to their peak against the Reds and simply have not reached that performance again in the Aleague let alone the ACL. This is the difference in professionalism and depth at the moment. Adelaide look lost but hope springs eternal.
Midfielder said | November 9th 2008 @ 10:19pm | Report comment
The curve on the graph is pointed North in growth and north where Footballs future lies …….. both our future and our growth depend on the growth of football within Asia …….. I feel good about the future both in Asian & thereby Australian growth.
Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 9:18am | Report comment
I am 100% with Joe. We talk about a gulf in class due to this most recent 3-0 win. But 3-0 is a result that is readily obtainiable between 2 relatively equal teams if one is ‘on-song’ on game day and the other is off. [God knows I saw my richer and better on paper Sydney FC team being utterly outclassed by Wellington on Friday night]. Adelaide, after all, beat a number of richer and stronger teams over a number of games to get where they are. I say that as a caution to not necessarily look to systemic issues such as financial inequality as the explanation for one single result. You can barely ask any more as a measure of success than our team having made the final.
That said, yes the FFA has a strategic decision to make - which is whether to base club financing (including player budget) regulations on the internal sustainability of the HAL, or to base it on an ambition for consistent high performance in the ACL. I hope a middle ground can be struck, and I think it can. However I think it will have to look at the salary cap and structure much more creatively than it is. It’s not just a case of increasing it gradually. Structures such as loyalty provisions, recognition of development and/or infrastructure funding, some reference to membership base, etc must be included in some way.
Finally, we have to remember that it cannot be bad for our Aussie-based players to be offered deals overseas. The HAL was never intended to be a ‘pinnacle’ league and if we are producing players and teams in the ACL that raise the attention of larger foreign clubs, then surely it is a proud, great thing that we are increasing the pool of Aussies in those bigger clubs, gaining international experience, and potentially strengthening the base from which future Socceroos teams may be selected.
James Ward said | November 10th 2008 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Millster I don’t agree re: losing players. Say Joel Griffiths signs for the J - League. He is an established star in the A - League and within Newcastle. It will be a massive loss and it will effect crowd figures and retaining fans.
Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
James - I guess it depends on the depth of the squad and also the ability of the Jets to do something with the transfer money and salary cap ’space’ they would get by losing him. I see your point but at the same time think that if other football leagues, and also other codes, can handle star players moving around then we should also be able to.
Joe FC said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Millster
re your point on club financing I don’t see it as being a choice between HAL or ACL but rather ensuring sound HAL clubs will result in strong ACL performances.
James
I think any costs associated with a “Joel Griffiths” moving overseas will be more than offset by the long term benefits to Oz football. By this I mean the game’s profile & participation rates. No individual is irreplaceable, quality players are always emerging.
James Ward said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
I think in the A leagues early stage of development and need to grow and audience keeping its stars is crucial. Other leagues and teams are more stable than the A League.
sheek said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
Heck, who the hell are we to think we can join the AFC, & start lifting every championship, as if we were born to it?
I agree Australia has a bright future in Asian football. Let’s earn our keep first before expecting to win everything in sight.
James Ward said | November 10th 2008 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
It’s the Australian way. We beat Japan in the WC and apart from the Asian Cup disaster we have proven we are the best in Asia. It was always going to be difficult to predict how the clubs would go in the ACL but Adelaide has proven we can compete with the best.
Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Its an immature Australian way James. Reality is that we forget, due to Adelaide’s exploits, that we have had a number of teams in the ACL and none have made it part the group stage. Adelaide’s performance is grand - even if it comes to a screaming halt at Hindmarsh - but we are a long way from proving that we are the best in Asia.
Same applies at a national level. Who here that follows football would yet put money on us consistently beating Japan, Korea, or Iran? We’re in that group but we are most certainly not clearly ahead of it. If I were asked who was the best in Asia I would say Japan (with respect of course to Iraq as current ‘official’ champion of the continent).
But of course the other side of the coin is that we are now playing in a serious field. The Australian Way has been to pick codes where we have such limited opposition that rising to the surface is not so hard. Football is challenging us to consider just where a country of only 20 million, distant from most others, and with a fragmented sporting tradition should sit in a truly global elite competitive sport…
Midfielder said | November 10th 2008 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
James
Your comments on Asian football are wrong as I see it the strength of some of the Asian teams and budgets they have is huge. That they manage these budgets poorly by Australian standards is to explain one of the reasons Australia was accepted into Asia.
Part of the reason Australia was allowed into Asia was to show other other Asian countries how to manage a team from grassroots football to rep sides to national comp sides to international sides and it shows the Middle Eastern countries and a number of asian countries China is a good example need to run their internal games better to realise their full potential.
Believe me as football in Asia grows and it will grow … go and check out the AFC web site, then our current success will be hard to maintain ………. Growth also means in management / coaching / selection / development of professional leagues, these things the Asian nations are learning from Australia …… its our part of the agreement to get into Asia in the first place.
James Ward said | November 10th 2008 @ 4:03pm | Report comment
The fact that Adelaide has gone so far given the salary cap and being the pioneers for Australian clubs is a sign that A - League clubs should be able to compete regularly at the top end of the Champions League.
dasilva said | November 10th 2008 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
James Ward
we’ll find out in the next 5-10 years if we consistently make the business end of the tournament
The alternative is that this is a one off fluke like Greece 2004 or Steau Bucharest winning the champions league. A case of a team overperforming with limited resources for one season and then never seen again.
Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 4:42pm | Report comment
James - you seem to again ignore that Adelaide has found success in our 6th HAL team campaign in this tournament. The other 5 have ended in the group stages. I don’t know how you can extrapolate from that that “we should be able to compete regularly at the top end” when we’ve fallen short of that at 5 out of 6 attempts.
I’m with middie and dasilva in thinking that as Asian countries with bigger populations and budgets get their act together things will get harder not easier for us. As such we need to stay at the cutting edge of training, development and facilities and also we need to sensibly and carefully relax limitations such as salary cap.
Kazama said | November 10th 2008 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
I agree, we need to see how we go on a regular basis in the ACL to determine where we stand in Asian club football. You can’t make a judgement and say we’re the best of Asia on the back of a handful of results.
Isn’t it 3 out of 4, Millster, not 5 out of 6? Adelaide and Sydney, the first Aussie reps, played last season, Adelaide and Melbourne this season.
Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 5:45pm | Report comment
Yep Kaz you may be right. I get confused what with ACL being so ‘delayed’ with respect to which HAL season creates the 2 representatives. In any case the point remains that we can’t talk about being competitive unless at least one of the 2 Aussie reps regularly makes it past the group.
Kazama said | November 10th 2008 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
It is going to get tougher to escape the groups now, even with the top two progressing to the knock-out stages. Why? Because there will be four teams from Japan, four teams from China and four teams from South Korea - so one from each nation into the four East groups. Next season the Mariners and Newcastle will each take up the last spot in a group containing a J-League, K-League and Chinese Super League club. Ouch.
James Ward said | November 10th 2008 @ 6:15pm | Report comment
If Adelaide wins the final do they get entry into next seasons Champions League?
Adds more importance to the game Wednesday if that’s the case.
Kazama said | November 10th 2008 @ 6:29pm | Report comment
No. The ACL winner must qualify for the next tournament to be able to defend their crown. Adelaide have already failed to qualify so this is it until (at least) 2010 for us.
James Ward said | November 10th 2008 @ 6:35pm | Report comment
Damn.
I can’t see the Mariners or Jets making an impact. Adelaide was helped by having experience from their first failed campaign.
It’s sad in a way that the seasons are out of sync and there is such a gap between the two Grand Finalists from the previous season to the start of the ACL.
Would there be a better way to determine Australia’s two representatives?
dasilva said | November 10th 2008 @ 6:46pm | Report comment
There is no way of having current winners
Especially when the league will eventually expand and will overlap with the start of the ACL.
Kazama said | November 10th 2008 @ 8:34pm | Report comment
The only way to cut the delay would be to move the A-League to the winter. That simply isn’t going to happen. I guess we should just be thankful that at least now our clubs have something more than the league to aim for and experience.
I agree James, I don’t think we’ll be seeing Central Coast or Newcastle knock off the big clubs of China, Korea and Japan. The Newcastle team will likely be very different (and much weaker) from the one that won the Championship, and that doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. I think the Mariners have the better chance to make it out of the group but I worry a bit about their game plan. I think they’ll have to make some big changes because they are a physical team and as we’ve seen the Asian refs aren’t as lenient as our refs. I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone like Jedinak get sent off about 5 minutes into the first game. They should look at signing a playmaker like a Beni Carbone-type before the ACL begins. I think they could use the help of a player like that in unlocking Asian defenses.
I don’t have much hope for the Aussies getting out of their groups considering they’ll both be facing teams from East Asia’s three strongest leagues. It’d be a bit like Celtic and Rangers having to face teams from Spain, England and Italy in their UCL groups. As good as Celtic and Rangers are you still wouldn’t give them much hope against three teams with more money and better players.
James Ward said | November 10th 2008 @ 8:40pm | Report comment
Just throwing it out there - maybe the top two in the league at the end of the regular season could be given the spots and adjust the season so it finishes in time for the ACL. That way it would encourage teams to go for the minor premiership. Just an idea.
Joe FC said | November 10th 2008 @ 9:35pm | Report comment
For what its worth Kazama while Celtic are unlikely to advance from their UCL group this season they did so last year & also the previous one, so don’t write off the Aussie teams just yet. The time lag problem between qualifying & participating is perplexing but there doesn’t seem much we can do about it. It will be interesting to see how the FFA schedule next season, 18 regular season games or 27 or some other combination. That decision will have an impact on when the season finishes.
jimbo said | November 10th 2008 @ 9:50pm | Report comment
Unfortunately AU won’t get an automatic start in next year’s ACL like Urawa did this year.
Jets and Mariners will represent us from next March and shows the unfortunate timing of the competition the way the Jests are playing at the moment. Hopefully GVE can calm down in time.
The 2 best A-league teams of last year represent us a year later and the way the A-League goes, they are not usually the best teams 2 teams, 2 years in a row.
Kazama said | November 11th 2008 @ 7:17am | Report comment
Joe FC
Celtic’s group in 2007-8: AC Milan, Benfica, Shaktar (2nd, 3 wins, 3 losses)
Celtic’s group in 2006-7: Man Yoo, Benfica, Copenhagen (2nd, 3 wins, 3 losses)
I think you didn’t understand my point. In those two seasons Celtic played a stronger team, a weaker team and an equal. What the Aussies are facing are three stronger teams in their groups, so it would be more like Celtic playing Inter, Valencia and Arsenal. Maybe the Celtic comparison was too kind on our teams, maybe I should have picked Copenhagen: regardless of Adelaide’s heroics this season our teams will be seen in Asia as ‘making up the numbers’ in these groups of death.
There are no easy teams like Binh Duong that pretty much guarantee you 6 points any more. Newcastle’s group might be: Urawa, Suwon and Shandong. Not household names here, but massive, powerful clubs in Asia. It’s going to be a tough ask for clubs that have never played against the big Asian clubs before to come in and do a job in their first season. And, given the opposition, it’ll be the hardest task any of our clubs have faced in the ACL so far, even with the second placed teams going into the knockout stages.
Let’s not become arrogant just because of Adelaide. Adelaide have played some intelligent football but we’ve also been outplayed a few times. Changchun Yatai outplayed us home and away in the group but unfortunately for them they couldn’t get a goal. Had they nicked one, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now. And I have a feeling the Asians would have learned from Adelaide and won’t surrender as meekly as Pohang, Bunyodkor and Kashima did. We’ll see next season. If the Mariners and Newcastle make the final, maybe we are as good as some of us think. If they finish bottom of their groups, we’ll be woken from our delusions of grandeur like Greece after winning Euro 2004.
James Ward said | November 11th 2008 @ 10:49am | Report comment
I still think Adelaide has a chance to reverse the score this Wednesday. I know it is a different team but last time they played in the ACL at Hindmarsh they won 3 - 0. If they play like that night they have a chance. They just can’t afford to concede.
Millster said | November 11th 2008 @ 10:51am | Report comment
Do any of you gents have any more information than has been posted this morning on SMH on Tony Popovic’s retirement from football as a player?
While not totally clear, the articel suggests that:
- Popovic will stop playing effective immediately due to age and injuries
- He will stay on at SFC as part of the coaching staff
We should of course congratulate him on a noble career for various clubs in Australia and overseas, and also for his contributions to the Socceroos including a knack for pinching goals against highly ranked opposition. This will be a sad loss to a Sydney FC who cannot afford the loss of experience and poise in their back-line.
Kazama said | November 11th 2008 @ 11:08am | Report comment
First I’ve heard of it Millster. Just popped over to Fox Sports and it’s on the main page.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,24634806-23215,00.html
Interesting time to retire. Injury related or something deeper?
Absolute champ though. I’ll always remember him for that goal against England.
James Ward said | November 11th 2008 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
Very interesting. How is his relationship with Kosmina?
It’s a surprise time to retire - he would have had a few good years left in him yet.
jimbo said | November 11th 2008 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Apparently, the players and the management had a crisis meeting.
5 points out of a possibly 18 is not good enough.
Regularly failing to win or draw to take top spot in the A-League is not good enough.
Kosmina and Kemeny put it to the players - “stand up and be counted or move on” after the defeat against Wellington Phoenix.
Popovic decided to move on and asked to be considered for a position as part of the defensive coaching staff instead.
Was he blamed for the loss because of his hand ball penalty in the last few minutes?
Kosmina stays on unscathed, but must take some of the blame as the manager.
His tactics and motivational techniques are questionable and his behaviour towards Ricky Herbert after the Wellington loss was a disgrace and reminiscent of the behaviour after the GF loss to MV when he coached AU. Not good enough for the A-League.
James Ward said | November 11th 2008 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Very disappointing - Popovic still has a lot left in him.
Kosmina is the most overrated coach in Australia
Kazama said | November 11th 2008 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
Maybe as captain he took the blame for the rest of his players and called it quits. He basically said he wasn’t up to scratch anymore - is that really the case?
Agree that Kosmina should cop a share of the blame for this, and also that he is overrated. His managerial record isn’t that great, particularly when it comes to the business end of the season. Kosmina has yet to lead his side to a win in the A-League finals from three campaigns and nine games (Adelaide’s win on penalties over the Jets officially counts as a draw).
In the last season of the NSL, Kosmina’s Adelaide United nearly threw away a 3-0 first leg win in Brisbane, losing 4-1 but advancing on away goals. United then beat South Melbourne 2-1 at home in extra time via a dodgy penalty decision before being smashed 5-0 by Perth in the preliminary final.
In his only other finals campaign as coach, his Brisbane Strikers were beaten by South Melbourne 2-0 and 2-1 in the elimination final in 2001/02. All up, in five finals series in the NSL and the A-League, Kosmina’s teams have won 2, drawn 4, lost 9 (including a 4-1, a 5-0 and a 6-0). This suggests to me that he struggles to motivate his players for big games, which is something I’d be concerned about if I were a Sydney FC fan.
Vicentin said | November 11th 2008 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
Kosmina is the most overrated coach in Australia
James, to be honest I’ve yet to meet someone who does rate him. I get your point though.
dasilva said | November 11th 2008 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
I’m happy someone took him away from Adelaide
James Ward said | November 11th 2008 @ 5:42pm | Report comment
He seems to have a high reputation from people outside the game.