By dasilva
November 9th 2008 @ 4:52am
Get a Roar profile

Loading ...

---------------
Super 14 tipping now live for sign-ups. Join now and invite your mates..
---------------

The 1974 Socceroos: an untold story

As fourth anniversary of the death of Johnny Warren passes by, it’s clear that although we know so much of him as an ambassador of the game and as a media personality, we know so little about him as a distinguished Socceroo.

That’s why I believe there should be a movie about the 1974 Soccerroos.

It’s a story rarely celebrated, and rarely known, yet it is a great story. It’s a story of courage and sacrifice, and a story of a side of amateurs qualifying for the World Cup against the odds.

It should start off in Phnom Penh in 1965.

The players walk into the dressing room dejected and demoralised after a 9-2 aggregate defeat to North Korea. The camera zooms in on John Warren, a bench player who witness the massacre, our sporting version of Gallipoli, and you see him mouth with steely determination “never again.”

Fade to the next scene, back in Australia, with defender Manfred Shaefer delivering milk every morning. You see, the Soccerroos in the past weren’t millionaires playing in the richest leagues in Europe. They were amateurs and they had day jobs outside of playing for their clubs.

The occupations ranged from miners, to salesman and tradesman. These players played for the love of the game. When they were selected to play for Australia, they had to take unpaid leave from their job to travel across the world to represent our country.

Some of them understandably declined as they didn’t want to risk their employment. Other players lost their job, their livelihood, and sometimes even their family because they wanted to represent Australia in a game they love.

The movie should focus on three main characters.

The first character would be Johnny Warren. It would document him captaining the side to Vietnam in 1967 in the middle of the Vietnam War. The Australian team was used as a propaganda tool to help win the “hearts and minds” of the Vietnamese people. They stayed in hotels that could be described as a “hole.”

Artillery fire could be heard during the match. During the training when the ball was kicked out of the ground. A player tried to run and get the ball, but was stopped by military as there was a minefield out there.

Australia won their first international tournament with a 3-2 victory over South Korea. For their reward for this they were allowed by the ASA to keep their tracksuits. A journalist reporting on the performance of Australia in this tournament coined the name Soccerroos and a legend was born.

Later on, John Warren got a shocking injury that at the time seemed like a career ending injury. The movie should show the steely determination of Warren to recover from injury and help Australia qualify for the World Cup.

The second character would be Ray Baartz.

He was an Australian star - the best player at the time, and quite possibly the best player Australia has ever produced. He was as skilful as Mark Viduka, strong as an ox, could kick with both feet, and had one of the powerful shots in the game.

The movie would document his contributions in all World Cup Qualifiers. It should then show the fateful Uruguay warm up match where he was karate chopped in the neck. He later won the match for Australia with a goal and an assist, but a day later his carotid artery closed up and he suffered a stroke.

He was sent to the hospital and was battling for his life. He was in a coma for two days, and although he recovered, he would never play professional football again and he missed out on the World Cup that he helped to qualify.

It was the birth of the rivalry with Uruguay.

The last main character would be Peter Wilson, the forgotten Captain Soccerroos. He may not be the greatest ambassador of the game, as Johnny Warren was, but he was influential, inspirational and a popular captain of the team (he was voted 20-1 to remain captain of Australia after Johnny Warren returned from injury).

He was a tough tackling defender and led Australia with distinction in the 1974 World Cup.

Then there was the World Cup in Germany.

They were treated as professionals for the first time in their life, and given access to training facilities that they could only dream about in Australia. The team had no reputation and were initially mocked by the German Press when they were arrived.

However, after the three matches, especially the fighting 2-0 lost to East Germany where they gallantly held off the team for most of the match, they won the respect of the German media with one newspaper writing an apology and saying that Australia won their respect and showed a lot of heart in their performance.

When the Soccerroos returned home, several players received offers to play in Europe. It was an opportunity for them to become professional football players.

They all said no because they felt they would be homesick playing in Europe and they loved this country too much for them to leave.

The movie should end on that note, showing that it was certainly a different era.

Super 14 tipping now live for sign-ups. Join now and invite your mates.

Recently popular

Free Email updates:

Our daily emails are only sent if there is content for the sport or that author. You can subscribe to multiple daily emails; or get the daily Roar email with all our content in it. We value privacy. More...

jimbo said | November 9th 2008 @ 9:59am | Report comment

dasilva,
nice article and brings back some great memories.

I was just a lad at the time and my football coach played for the Socceroos - Ray Richards. Shows you just how much they were amateurs and part timers.

Given the circumstances, it was such a great achievement and wasn’t repeated for 34 years.
That team had Australia’s best ever defender - Peter Wilson and Ray Baartz was Australia’s best ever striker. What a disgusting, cowardly act by that Uruguayan Luis Garisto to cut his career short only weeks before he was due to fly out and play for the Socceroos in our first ever World Cup.

A great story, but will anyone ever make it into a movie?
Well maybe we can get Frank Lowy to produce it and some of us Roarers to star in it and we might sell a few DVDs at the ABC shop and at the grounds.

Joe FC said | November 9th 2008 @ 10:34am | Report comment

great story dasilva. I well remember watching grainy black & white TV coverage of Australia’s 1 nil victory over Sth Korea that took us to our first WC. We made many friends, particularly in Germany with our efforts.

patsy said | November 9th 2008 @ 11:00am | Report comment

thanks dasilva what great memories i was at the uruguay match in sydney as an 8 year old. riding in the back of brian mahoneys station wagon, my coach, with 4 other dads english ,irish ,slav ,australian, (but then again we were all australian in hindsight) kids crammed in the back. to the game What a time! Richie benaud tells a similar tale to johnny warren about player payments where thet both had lunch with their respective chairmans who arrived and departed in bentleys and the players who cuught the train home! thanks patsy

Midfielder said | November 9th 2008 @ 11:05am | Report comment

Das excellent article and I hope they do a mini series rather than a movie.

Terry said | November 9th 2008 @ 11:54am | Report comment

What a sensational idea. dasilva, get someone to help you writer the screenplay and then tout it to the FFA and see if you can get backing for someone to produce it. This type of story at this point in time would be brilliant for Australian Football.

dasilva said | November 9th 2008 @ 1:14pm | Report comment

Terry

I’m afraid I’m not much of dramatic writer. Although I like to read books about early Soccerroos history I still don’t know much about what happen back in 1974 (I was born much much later). Admittingly my knowledge of Soccerroos history is limited to Sheila Wog’s and Poofters by Johnny Warren and Andre Kruger Southern Cross website (I’ll add Rale Rasic autobiography to that list soon). It’s part of the reason why I believe there should be a movie because it’s an incredible story but people like me don’t know much about it and I’m just as curious and anyone about what happen back then.

Perhaps find someone who was actually around back in that era and actually knew the players, their personality the struggles of the time to write a screenplay.

Midfielder
Agree a mini series will be better. Covering each in detail all the WCQ campaigns from 1966 to 1974.

dasilva said | November 9th 2008 @ 1:28pm | Report comment

I’ll also add one of things that interests me the most is Peter Wilson. He had pretty much gone into public hiding ever since the World Cup 74 finish. Unless you were around in the 70s you wouldn’t know anything about him.

From reports of Andre Kruger and Jesse Fink he was a great captain and yet majority of new fans believe that John Warren was the captain of the 74 soccerroos (Midfielder your link to the Reverse the Curse video said that Warren was the captain of the 74 side and not Peter Wilson).

Perhaps this was something to do with the rift between John Warren and Peter Wilson. Although John Warren was a greatest ambassador of Australian Football. I think one thing I was disapointed about is how bitter he was in not being the Captain of the team. It was the only chapter of his book that made me feel uncomfortable reading as he seems truly angry about the event (honestly if the team voted 20-1 then I have no idea how you can complain about not being captain) and was still holding resentment over it.

From Jesse Fink recount Warren and Murray pretty much downplayed Wilson inbolvement with the team. The media believed Warren was the captain and Johnny Warren and Les Murray did nothing to debunk the myth and perhaps perpetuate it. This part of the reason why Wilson went into media isolation as he believe he didn’t get any credit that he deserved.

I think if a movie is released then that’s one of the things that has to be corrected and give him the recognition he deserves.

Koala Bear said | November 9th 2008 @ 1:34pm | Report comment

Good article Daz,
Les Murray and SBS showed a documentary, of Johnny Warren’s career about a month ago, 11am on a Sunday morning … I would dearly love to relive that period and see it again .. The Doco was first class and covered just about every aspect of the first Australian’s sojourn into the FIFA world cup attempts; starting from pre 1966.. All of us football lovers should email Les Murray and SBS to have them repeat the documentary .. Worth another look…

~~~~~~~
KB

dasilva said | November 9th 2008 @ 1:41pm | Report comment

I remember watching it. It was a great documentary. I record it on the VHS and still watch it now and then. However there is a lot of Warren worshiping going around and although he deserves its, I wish there was something about the whole soccerroos and other key players involve such as Rale Rasic, Baartz, Wilson, Alston, Shaefer, Watkiss etc.

dasilva said | November 9th 2008 @ 2:00pm | Report comment

Extra things that a movie should cover that I couldn’t fit in the word count

1. Witch doctor story and the curse on Australian Football. Soccerroos got a witch doctor to put a curse on the Rhodesian goal keeper and then didn’t pay for it. Probably the worst thing Johnny Warren ever done for Australian Football. Maybe he was the one that was responsible and should be blamed for all the bad things to happen to Australian football

Perhaps that’s why he was a great ambassador for Football as he was determine in fixing that horrible mistake he made for us back then.

2. The first time an Australian national team had played under “Advance Australia Fair” instead of God Save The Queen. When Australia played Iraq. IT was a precondition for Gough Whitlam the then PM to attend the match that advance australia fair was played.

3. Harry Williams the first aborigines to represent any national team and then played in the world cup the biggest event in the world. Still the only aboriginal player to played in the world cup. If Cathy Freeman was a national hero and an inspiration then so should Harry Williams.

4. THe beginning of Soccerroos as an international brand by showing the team inspiring Andre Kruger a german citizen to support the soccerroos over his nation of birth. The greatest soccerroo fan in the world and a member of the Football hall of fame should be recognise.

Midfielder said | November 9th 2008 @ 2:33pm | Report comment

Das

On fire mate ……….. must be a mini series ……… add after that Nick Tanna and the whole Perth Glory story, then TV an 1997, Ch 7 and the email, the Northern Spirit showing a ANGLO support for a football team in Sydney, Ian Knob and Nickie G how they push us into Adminstration ..Crawford ………… go mate go

dasilva said | November 9th 2008 @ 3:27pm | Report comment

Although I would concentrate mostly on the 1974 teams.

If I would expand it longer. I’ll be mostly interested in the Frank Arok “mad dog” era and the rivalry with Israel, german national anthem and that infamous match in tel aviv in 1985.

dasilva said | November 9th 2008 @ 3:45pm | Report comment

if you guys haven’t seen the match
you can search in mininova.org
west germany and australia

You can then download a torrent of WC 74 match between west germany and australia. there’s still some seeds

east germany match can be searched but there’s no seeders for it yet.

dasilva said | November 9th 2008 @ 3:50pm | Report comment

Midfielder

I’ll also add that although mini series will be great in terms of getting a lot of details of the team
I think a movie will still be better option because I’ll believe this soccerroos story is the type of romantic sporting story that can be very successful not only in Australia or with just football fans. A mini series may be restricting the audience. I doubt anyone knew much about the jamaican bobsled team before “cool runnings” and I believe a movie about the 74 soccerroos if done right can be just as successful and could do wonders for the soccerroos as an international brand

Midfielder said | November 9th 2008 @ 6:39pm | Report comment

Good luck with it the next time they give our media deals have it ready to go ……….. or as someone said go to FFA with your ideas.

Koala Bear said | November 9th 2008 @ 7:08pm | Report comment

Daz,
if you ever get this project off the ground and I sincerely hope you do … I would like to audition for the part of “Mad Dog” I think I have demonstrated here on the ROAR that I would be the perfect choice… no make up required..

dasilva said | November 9th 2008 @ 7:47pm | Report comment

If I ever meet a world reknown movie director I’ll tell him my idea.

dasilva said | November 9th 2008 @ 7:49pm | Report comment

Anyone knows santo cilauro or the guys from Working Dog.
I think they will do a good job.

jimbo said | November 9th 2008 @ 8:46pm | Report comment

Johnny Warren RIP
The King of Aussie Football is dead - long live the King!

dasilva,
if you get a movie deal, I’ll write the script and I’ll do it for nothing.

On another positive note, the Joey’s have qualified for the next FIFA U-19s World Cup.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,24624979-23215,00.html

After the disappointment of missing out last time, the FFA has prepared the team better and they have responded with the necessary improvements and made it to the semis of the Asian Championships to secure a place in the U-19 FIFA WC.

Now to go on and win the title as Asia’s U19s champions, our first Asian title.

As I mentioned before in a previous post dasilva, getting a kick in the backside in an Asian tournament should be the spur to make us do better next time and become a better team and footballing nation.

This is much better for improving our football abilities, rather than qualifying by going past a few easy beat Oceania nations.

dasilva said | November 10th 2008 @ 1:11am | Report comment

I actually thought of a better ending

Having the team discussing about what a journey it was and how it was sad that it has come to the end.

johnny Warren then says - For Australian Football, the journey has only just begun.

Now let’s have a bit fun here

If there is a movie - who should be the actors

We have KB for Frank Arok

I think the directors and writers should be the working dog team with jimbo contributing

who do you think would make a good johnny warren

Terry said | November 10th 2008 @ 6:24am | Report comment

I doubt anyone knew much about the jamaican bobsled team before “cool runnings”

Australia, we have a Football Team.

sheek said | November 10th 2008 @ 6:41am | Report comment

Dasilva,

A truly wonderful effort. I read Johnny Warren’s book, “Poofters, Wogs & Sheilas”, in which he describes those days of the mid to late 60s. The world, especially Asia was a dangerous place then, & the conditions the Socceroos were expected to perform in, were extreme.

You have captured it wonderfully well in such a short burst.

sledgeross said | November 10th 2008 @ 8:57am | Report comment

An interesting article. I may be shouted down as un-Australian, but from what I have heard about Johnny Warren, the legend of Captain Socceroo was cultivated to the detriment of others. Warren was past it at the WC due to injury, and perhaps didnt realise that his teammates didnt hold him in the high esteem that he believed. I think he did more on SBS for football than perhaps what he did on the field. All those years dreaming we could be a footballing nation and giving his views (whether we agreed or not), I believe have had a greater impact. We all remember the powerful images of Johnny towards the end, still as proud and emotional about Australia and the game he loved.

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 9:04am | Report comment

Love your work dasilva - a wonderful piece and an instant cheer from me.

Johnny Warren’s death was one of only 3 sport-related moments in my life that have made me cry. I hope he and his team-mates are given the place in history that they thoroughly deserve.

dasilva said | November 10th 2008 @ 9:11am | Report comment

sheek
thanks

sledgeross

Agreed, Warren was wreck by injury and although he showed a lot of heart to return from injury he was past his peak by 1974.

From reports of Rale rasic was that warren was passionate about football but he was deadly serious about it. It wasn’t just having fun and while he took the game very seriously and was often brooding around in the dressing room, some one like PEter Wilson was the larrikan in the dressing room, making people laugh, popular with the players and always playing with a smile. That’s the reason why he was voted 20-1 to remain captain. Johnny Warren subsequent bitterness about that decision IMO reflects him in the negative light and it seems like he wanted to become captain due to seniority and almost divine right instead of merit.

sheek said | November 10th 2008 @ 10:07am | Report comment

Yes, Warren was unbelievably passionate about his football. But the Aussie players got it right going with Peter Wilson as captain. Gee whiz, they were done no favours, were they?

They were pooled with the two Germanys, with West Germany co-favourite along with Netherlands, & eventual winners too. As you said, their best player Ray Baartz was missing, & Warren was returning from injury.

How much better might the Socceroos have been with more meaningful lead-in international competition, & fully fit & best available players? They would probably have still lost to WG, maybe drawn with EG & perhaps beaten the other mob!

The 1974 Socceroos were a mighty fine team. The fact it took another 32 years for the Socceroos to again qualify for a World Cup, speaks volumes for their enduring ability.

sledgeross said | November 10th 2008 @ 10:16am | Report comment

Sheek, I suppose the same could be said about any Aussie team leading up to a WC. Its only been in the last few years we have seemed fair dinkum about the Socceroos developing as a team. We cant just throw a few blokes tgther every few years and expect good performances in sudden death encounters!

sheek said | November 10th 2008 @ 10:35am | Report comment

Dasilva & other football afficianados,

Are you willing to have a crack at an all-time Socceroos XI??? Who would make it? Starting XI plus bench of 4, including reserve GK.

There are the pioneers from the 40s & 50s - Joe Marston, Reg Date & Ron Lord. Then some members of the 1970-74 teams - Peter Wilson, Ray Baartz, Johnny Warren, Atti Abonyi, Adrian Alston, Jimmy Rooney, Jim Reilly, Manfred Schaefer.

Heroes from the 80s & 90s - Graham Arnold, Robbie Slater, Paul Wade, Alex Tobin, Frank Farina, Tony Vidmar, Mark Bosnich, Paul Okon & Ned Zelic. And who of the current/recent heroes would make an all-time team? Mark Viduka, Harry Kewell, Tim Cahill, Brett Emerton, Lucas Neill, Mark Schwarzer, Kevin Muscat, Craig Moore.

Would you include Craig Johnston, even though he never represented the Socceroos, but was obviously good enough to have done so? I would be interested in your thoughts.

Towser said | November 10th 2008 @ 10:58am | Report comment

dasilva

No problem with your sentiments. I’ve often felt that there was a ‘Sporting Tale” to be told about the 74 WC team.
I watched all the WC qualifiers & warm up games before we qualified.
However I will take you to task on the fact that nowhere in your article do you mention that this team was comprised(80%) of migrant footballers.
As a migrant this story is a more about the contribution migration & migrant footballers gave to football in Australia than it is about Johnny Warren or any other footballer born here. They were the minority in the sense of being able to play football at a high level ,migrant players were the dominant force in this respect.
Nowhere also do you mention another migrant the coach Rale Rasic. Rale has a story to tell himself.
The fact is that this country has no real right to claim this teams acheivments as their own. This was acheived in the back streets of towns in the North of England & Scotland or Germany ,Hungary, Eastern Europe.
This generated the momentum for Junior clubs to spring up & guys like Johnny Warren to spend the rest of their life sacrificing themselves to the game (there is also a story there) but the springboard was the getting to the 74 WC.
So what has happened since is due to the game evolving so that we have a 100% born here Socceroo squad due to many dedicated Australians.
But make no mistake ,no migration, no migrant footballers your staring at a country like New Zealand in football terms. So to omit the migrant angle from the Socceroo untold 74 story is like leaving the chocolate out of a chocolate pudding.

Koala Bear said | November 10th 2008 @ 11:08am | Report comment

Das, sledgeross and sheek,
I knew Johnny Warren as a youngster and we both played at the Earlwood Wanderers Junior Soccer club as I only made it as far as a third grader in the ASF competition.. However, on the 50 yrs birthday celebration held at the Earlwood Oval some 11 yrs ago he came and met with all of the lads who adorn the black and white first check strip of Earlwood Wanders SC.. He always had a word for anyone who wanted to have a chat, no matter who that person was, or what height that player ever rose to. If you wanted to talk football he was always available to anyone..

As far as being not popular in the dressing room you are definitely wrong .. Yes he was put out after losing the captaincy to Peter Wilson and not getting it back and played little part in the World Cup in Germany, due to a bad knock he received in the match against West Germany or East Germany (I would have to check which) that ended his tournament.. But to suggest he was not liked or respected in the dressing room is totally incorrect.. However, in saying that, it was not the players who chose Peter Wilson for the captaincy, who btw proved to be a great captain; it was Rasic who Chose Wilson to replace Warren as Johnny seemed he was not going to return to the national team after receiving a crucial knee ligament injury that was career ending in those days… No doubt Warren did brood over the fact of not getting the captaincy back, when he did unexpectedly return after such an injury, but he was still a team player and respected the manager’s decision although not agreeing with it..

As far as Wilson is concern he left and went into recluse not even attending reunions when invited or giving interviews .. Adrian Alston one of Johnny’s closest friends was the larkin in the dressing room not Peter Wilson far from it.. still a very good captain .. It’s a shame Wilson does not want anything to do anymore with the Australian Football Family, not even to give his story of his part in the 1974 World Cup in West Germany… I have listed a number of players that were very close to Johnny Warren from his former clubs Canterbury/Marrickville FC to St. George FC and the Socceroos all loved and respected him greatly..

John Watkiss
Ray Baartz
Attila Abonyi
Manfred Schaefer
Ron Corry
Adrian Alston
Gary Manuel
Dennis Yaager
John Doyle
Alan Ainslie
George Harris
Bobby Hogg
Doug Utjesenovic
Jim Fraser
Harry Williams
Col Curran

~~~~~~~~
KB..

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 11:15am | Report comment

————————–Bosnich———————
Neill————Moore——–Ivanovic——-Schafer
————–Slater———–Warren——————-
Kewell—————–Zelic——————–Cahill
————Baartz————–Farina————–

Bench : Schwartzer, Marston, Okon, Kosmina

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 11:18am | Report comment

Oops hit the ‘add comment’ button when my team still had one too many!

Cahill comes out of the midfield to give a 4-4-2, hard call as to whether to have him or Okon on the bench.

Koala Bear said | November 10th 2008 @ 11:24am | Report comment

Sheek,
Nah, good luck to CJ but he made his choice to play for the England B team end of story … Not that there is anything wrong with that as a few others made the same choice ..

But, choosing an all time Australian XI, I don’t think I could do that, but to go past the 1974 team just for sheer guts and determination would have to take some research, which I’m not about to do cos they are all my heroes… pass on that one

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 11:26am | Report comment

KB - I agree in realtion to Johnston. If you pick him you have to also pick guys like Christian Vieri. I think the selection must be from people who have actually been capped, not just who could have been at some point in their life.

sheek said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:20pm | Report comment

Millster,

Thanks for your effort re all-time Socceroos XI. No doubt dasilva & others are picking their brains at the moment, working on their selections! Yes, I agree about Johnston. Just thought I would throw his name out there anyway.

Koala Bear,

Thanks to guys like yourself & dasilva, we won’t forget the crew of 74. However, selecting an all-time Socceroos XI is meant to mainly be both a fun & educational exercise. Millster selected Schaefer only from the 74 squad, while Baartz would have been there, had he been injury free.

C’mon, have a go - how many of the 74 team would make your all-time Socceroos XI plus bench?

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:28pm | Report comment

Sheek - no worries.

There are some hard calls though - no Grella, no Bresch, no Viduka, neither Vidmar, no Arnold, no Lazaridis, no Tobin, no Wade, and then as I said having potentially to pick between Okon and Cahill on the bench.

I found this to be a very hard exercise indeed (as can be seen by my selecting acceidentally a ’starting 12′ )

Just to clarify this is what my XI would be (and I’m going to take the liberty of having 5 on the bench as I just cannot pick between Okon and Cahill)

————————–Bosnich———————
Neill————Moore——–Ivanovic——-Schafer
————–Slater———–Warren——————-
Kewell—————–——-——————–Zelic
————Baartz————–Farina————–

Bench : Schwartzer, Marston, Okon/Cahill, Kosmina

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:30pm | Report comment

And of course when NZ finally joins the Australian federation in a few years we’ll have to bump one of the forwards for the awesome Wynton Rufer

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:35pm | Report comment

PS: sheek - re 1974 I also picked Warren in midfield alongside Slater

sledgeross said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:48pm | Report comment

KB, I hope you didnt interpret anything I wrote as besmirching Warrens name or popularity. I just belive the “Cult of Warren” had more to do with what he achieved after his playing career.
Also KB, you mention Craig johnston as making his choice to play for the old enemy. Another one who slipped through the net was Tony Dorigo, who playing in England and Italy, and was capped for the Poms.

sheek said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:52pm | Report comment

Thanks Millster,

Yes, looking at your team, Warren is there. Don’t know how I missed him first time around.

Good for you also, selecting Bosnich at GK. It’s easy for people to forget how good he really was, before he went off the rails.

Terry said | November 10th 2008 @ 12:54pm | Report comment

Towser;

“The fact is that this country has no real right to claim this teams achievements as their own”

The fact is that these players Chose to migrate to Australia and then play for Australia. We have every right to claim these achievements as “Australian”.

The contribution to Australian Football by migrants is undeniable and not in dispute. dasilva gave us a brief of a movie. I am sure if someone were to do a movie then this part of the story would be told.

Towser said | November 10th 2008 @ 1:18pm | Report comment

There are many ways to look at things.
Let me clarify the statement in question.

I am indicating from a “where they learned their football “perspective. In that sense there is no right. Bakers Plumbers all kinds of professions migrate. All migrants primarily migrate to get a better quality of life. Particularly at the time the 74 migrant members(the same time as me) would have migrated. They didn’t migrate to play for Australia.but for a better life.
The reason they played for Australia is simple. They were superior than the vast majority of Australian born players.
So the bottom line is that without those “learned their football overseas migrants from a football culture” there
would be no 74 Socceroos.

Koala Bear said | November 10th 2008 @ 1:20pm | Report comment

sledgeross
Tony Dorigo, was indeed one but I did qualify “that there is nothing wrong unto the player’s choice for whom he wants to play for” but you can’t then nominate him for an Australian all time great XI .. I did not see your post as disrespectful just a tad ill informed that I felt a need to correct as from my knowledge of the events.. I did not mean any offence to you, as you are part right. the events after his retirement as a Football ambassador far out weighed his playing career .. His dream, his work, believeth in Football to one day become a mainstream code in Australia.. Pele said once of the man (JW) he did more for Brazilian and Australian relationships than any dignitaries from Brazil…

Towser said | November 10th 2008 @ 1:21pm | Report comment

Midfielder said | November 10th 2008 @ 1:41pm | Report comment

Sheek

Here is mine

————————–Bosnich———————
Neill————Moore——–Ivanovic——-Marston
Kwell————–Griller———–Zelic——————Cahil
————Baartz————–Viduka————–

Bench : Schwartzer, Okon, Farina, Tobin

Would have to include Marston in my side as in a 442 the English August edition I think they surveyed English supporters and asked them to nominate the best 100 imported playes ever.

The oldest in terms of going back was Joe Marston came in the late 50’s or early 60’s on the list and he played for a club that has not been in the English top division for over 20 years ….. so to be that well remembered 50 years after he played in a club that has been out of the lime light for so long forced me to include him, much the same aas Bradman in cricket just go by what other say.

Terry said | November 10th 2008 @ 1:42pm | Report comment

Towser, thanks for your explanation, I see where you are coming from but I still disagree.

For the record, I was 10 years old in ‘74 and playing club Football in Engadine. I have vague memories of the time and learn t more about these pioneers in my teens and since. I have a huge respect for these men and what they achieved. I am not going to enter the argument about JW and his contribution to the 74 WC.

He has done an enormous amount for the game here in Australia since then, and certainly more than any other individual in raising awareness.

Midfielder said | November 10th 2008 @ 1:57pm | Report comment

Towser

In a very famous speech made by Manfred Schwartzer, he said the team was more Australian than an Australian team, as many players had chosen to come to Australia to live and thereby to play for Australia …whereas if you live in a country you have to play for that country.

However can see your point about their skills from overseas ..but also Australia did have the set able to choose these players and keep them in a match ready condition.

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 1:57pm | Report comment

Midfielder - geez, picking Dukes… I agree on potential and raw talent, but geez thats a big call if the criteria is consistent performance in a gold shirt…

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 2:03pm | Report comment

Middie - “born again” Aussies if you will…

dasilva said | November 10th 2008 @ 2:04pm | Report comment

Towser
There’s only so much I could have wrote in the article in fact I submitted 1000 words which was edited down to 850 which is still 250 words over the word count and I was bound to leave something out. I like to thank the Roar for posting it despite it’s above the word limit.

I agree that this is a great migrant story. However like Terry says it is an Australian achievement. THey came here ,fall in love with this country and made a life here and then choose to represent Australia

KB
I’ll accept your version
I’m no expert on the soccerroos of 1974 and you do seem to know lot more than I do. I didn’t say he wasn’t a team player or wasn’t respected

I’m just basing my response on Rale Rasic what Rale Rasic says about Johnny Warren ” He was always very serious and a different person. You can’t make someone funny. People used to fall on the floor when Peter Wilson was cracking jokes, and Johnny wouldn’t produce a bloody smile. I’ve met a lot of people but Johnny was unique in that regard.”

There’s probably a lot more to it then a simple quote from Rale.

However I still think that reading Warren book he seems overly bitter about the captaincy. When he says that watching someone else leading the side is like a knife in his side. Out of all the chapters in his book I found that chapter the least enjoyable.

My soccerroos XI
I’ve only started following Soccerroos since 1997 so I haven’t personally seen many players and just writing this XI based on books I’ve read and description by other people.

Mark Bosnich
Joe Marston (c), Alex Tobin, Milan Ivanovic, Harry Williams
Doug Utjesenovic, Ned Zelic, Tim Cahill, Harry Kewell
Mark Viduka, Ray Baartz

Sub - Ron Lord, Lucas Neill, Paul Okon, Robbie Slater, Johnny Warren, Frank Farina, Attila Abonyi

Towser said | November 10th 2008 @ 3:01pm | Report comment

Terry dasilva

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. But I will never dispute Johnny Warrens contribution to Aussie football since then. My own belief is that the constant grind of fighting “The Battle” is what eventually killed him. Nevertheless much of what he fought for & prophesied is starting to eventuate. As a Football visionary he was second to none.

I remember an old Aussie once told me after I took up citizenship(courtesy of Gough 1974) .
Your a better Aussie than me.
I was born here & had no choice in the matter you chose to be an Australian,I doubt whether I’d choose to be a Pom.

Midfielder said | November 10th 2008 @ 3:04pm | Report comment

JW was a great player, one our best 11 ever ……. and one of the best four mids …… IMO no …… he worked tirelessly from when he finished and was a visionary in many ways …… his ideas on Asia …….. the need to have better development paths for players and coaches ……. the national competition and so on ………. was he always right frankly no but whoever is …… did he make mistakes yes but again who does not and when held against what he did right the ledger balance says right by a long way.

The good he did away from SBS is often under rated. Peter Bossley on 2UE an AM fossil station in Sydney for years had JW on each week and at key times often all week during their sports show and sometimes all week for the entire show. 2UE were part of a huge broadcasting radio network across Australia that spoke to sports people who never watched SBS and his radio broadcast where to a much larger population and a greater spread of the population than SBS. IMO the radio broadcasts had a greater influence on the broader Australian population than his work on SBS. The SBS work was like preaching to the converted but the radio work was to a mainly no football audience but he made football interesting and his greatest asset was to tell the truth as he saw it and that went over well on radio ……..but often not well at Soccer Australia (this was the name of our national body then).

JW is a true legion of our game and we all owe him a great debt……perhaps his greatest deed was convincing Frank Lowy to take over football……… as without Frank I don’t think; the A_league or Socceroos Success or Guss or Asian or Government support or current sponsors, would have happened.

Your thoughts on Peter Wilson are on the money ….poor old SBS …… they do tend at times to write their own version of history …… but so does everybody.

Anyway must get back to the slog of work and good luck with your ideas …. hope you can make it work.

sheek said | November 10th 2008 @ 3:12pm | Report comment

Thanks dasilva,

With your Socceroos selection. We’re building some critical mass here. Bosnich is the undisputed king of keepers, with Schwarzer his able deputy.

Ivanovic, Zelic, Kewell & Baartz are the other unanimous choices. On balance the others are Marston, Neill, Moore, Warren, Cahill & Viduka.

The team then looks like this so far:

GK - Bosnich
Ds - Neill, Moore, Ivanovich, Marston
Ms - Kewell, Warren, Zelic, Cahill
As - Baartz, Viduka

Res GK - Schwarzer
Res D - Tobin
Res M - Okon
Res A - Farina

dasilva said | November 10th 2008 @ 3:28pm | Report comment

No doubt that Johnny Warren was the greatest ambassador Australian football ever has and is a legend.

No one in Australian Football did as much to the game than Johnny “wog” Warren

Don’t take my previous comments as an attack on Mr. Warren contribution or legacy to the game.

I just wish that he got along with Peter Wilson as well (and also wish he paid that damn witch doctor in Mozambique. How costly that was).

Those unfortunate incidence doesn’t change the fact that he is a legend.

Midfielder said | November 10th 2008 @ 3:28pm | Report comment

That is a hell of a team ……… all the mids can score but Kwell, Cahill & Warren are regular goal scores it looks similar in format to the Man U side that one all three EPL / FA & Champions league.

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 3:59pm | Report comment

Certainly is a fearsome attack! I was more conservative putting in Slater as a holding mid but perhaps should have gone all out.

This infatuation with Dukes is what puzzles me from the last couple of teams put up. Sure, a classic CF and a talented guy but across his Socceroos career I would have thought him to be under- rather than over-whelming.

On the other hand seems like we are unanimous in confirming Zelic as the man in the CAM position…

dasilva said | November 10th 2008 @ 4:17pm | Report comment

The dukes no doubt underperform for Australia especially due to the amount of goals scored. However saying viduka is a talented guy is a bit of an understatement. Technically not even Harry Kewell could match him.

His goal scorring records has been overstated due to him not playing against oceania side. I think if we have qualified through asia from the beginning his goal scoring record would have reflected how good of a player he is. Also he plays the role of the sole strikers and target man where his primary goal is actually to set play up not to actually score goals. I’m quite sure if he has a strike partner of the quality of Baartz then he’ll do well for us.

I think some of his performance was underated alot to the side. Many times I think he was the best player for the match without scoring any goals (Australia lost to Argentina 4-2 and Australia lost 1-0 to Uruguay 2005). His performance in the World Cup was also underrated and he had a good game against Japan and Croatia. Play Djite, Aloisi, McDonald or even Kennedy as a sole striker and you’ll see the difference in retaining possession. Even if he doesn’t score he still contributes a lot to the team.

Millster said | November 10th 2008 @ 4:45pm | Report comment

I do agree that he had a golden patch in 2005 and 2006 dasilva, but i don’t know whether he has been as consistent throughout his entire international career as some of the others named here.

However no doubt that he is a great talent. Also no doubt that if you are setting up with 2 or 3 attacking midfielders then you want/need a guy that plays well with his back to the goal like Dukes as the target man up front.

Pippinu said | November 10th 2008 @ 4:57pm | Report comment

I can’t fault this team guys - I’m glad you’ve used the day well!

I agree with dasilva - as a sole CF - no one touches Dukes. We have to also keep in mind that Dukes only ever turned out for Australia against “big” teams - I don’t think he ever got to play against any of the minnows.

Could any other Australian CF have stood out the way he did against Brazil in the WC? Don’t worry folks - his is our best.

Millster - you referred to Zelic as a CAM - wouldn’t he be the CDM??

The bench is spot on as well - good effort!

dasilva said | November 10th 2008 @ 5:37pm | Report comment

just wondering about the team sheek
Who’s playing on the right wing?

Does Marston ever play left back?

Midfielder said | November 10th 2008 @ 7:03pm | Report comment

According to FFA site Marston was a right full back. But its either him or Lucas to play left back.

Zelic was what was called a stopper in the old days a player playing between the backs and midfielder. Kinda like a deep defensive mid today or an attacjing Central Defender.

By dasilva
November 9th 2008 @ 4:52am
Get a Roar profile

The 1974 Socceroos: an untold story

Related articles

Recently popular

Free Email updates:

(161)

By dasilva November 9th 2008 @ 4:52am Get a Roar profile

The 1974 Socceroos: an untold story

Related articles

Recently popular

Free Email updates:

(161)

By dasilva
November 9th 2008 @ 4:52am
Get a Roar profile