By James Mortimer
November 10th 2008 @ 7:25am
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All Black depth looking immense again
An ‘experimental’ test team from the number one ranked rugby nation in the world has made an emphatic statement against the braves of Scotland.
It was not emphatic throughout the game itself – as we shall talk about soon; but for a team that featured three debutants, five first year All Blacks with less than ten tests, three All Blacks recalled this year and one returning from injury – to beat a full strength Scotland 32-6 is quite remarkable.
The first of four Grand Slams wins has been achieved, and everything that we have seen this year so far from New Zealand rugby suggests that the All Blacks will record their third home nations sweep.
But the victory was even more impressive for the amount of starch and forward power that Scotland exhibited against – second fifteen or not – was still an All Black team. A team of men clad in black that in the set pieces at least, were outplayed for large periods of the game.
This is not surprising on further analysis – with a brand new loose forward trio, which is typically the strongest aspect of the New Zealand game, and a front row that had never packed down together. But despite spending prolonged periods under pressure from a surprisingly strong Scotland scrum – the pressure that was exerted on the black pack never was converted into points.
Scottish prop Euan Murray and hooker Ross Ford were towers, with the former giving Jamie Mackintosh quite possibly the most torrid game a New Zealand prop has ever experienced. But the new All Black loose forward combination held its own against a far more experienced trio, with Kieran Reads work rate outstanding, and the cover defence of Adam Thompson giving the Otago flank probably his best game in national colours.
Scottish captain Mike Blair had a powerful game, keeping busy and ensuring the pillar defence of New Zealand was always tested. Piri Weepu had another strong game to continue his 2008 renaissance, although he was not as imposing on the ruck as he could have been considering the fact that the entire All Black back row were not positional specialists.
Stephen Donald had a far more assured game as the playmaker, and probably actually benefited from having Ma’a Nonu, a running strike player on his outside rather than a second five eighth like Dan Carter.
Nonu was impressive and his combination with Richard Kahui would have impressed the All Blacks three wise men. Painfully ironic that after years of confusion, New Zealand rugby now has two international class outside centres, with man of the match Kahui providing genuine competition to the silky class of Conrad Smith.
Nonu himself, still has his critics. But now that he resigned with the NZRU till 2011, continued maturity with the introduction of his new kicking game shows his increasing value to the black jersey. When was the last time the enigma lost a ball forward?
The All Black three quarter line looked strong, with Joe Rokocoko’s return to the rugby field a fine aspect for all rugby fans. Anthony Tuitavake looks solid, although appears to suffer from the malaise that top level players suffer when their coaches are not sure of their natural position.
Isaia Toeava looks to have finally repaid the faith that Graham Henry has constantly had in him, looking menacing with an educated boot to match. With Cory Jane looking comfortable at the highest level – this is another position that New Zealand is blessed with depth.
There were criticisms before the game about “second string” and the All Black team being under strength, but it was logical, with a tough tour and far stronger outfits waiting. Furthermore, fringe players do not become better players sitting in the stands. As for that connotation – how strong did the All Blacks appear with the world’s two best players in Richie McCaw and Carter on the bench?
No doubt by the end of this tour again the All Blacks will be in the envious situation where they have 2-3 international class players for each position – with the difference from previous years that we could all probably name the strongest New Zealand team on paper – as could Henry.
Next week the Irish wait, and it is likely that Henry will unveil a full strength line up. For as impressive as the 26 point win over Scotland was, how much stronger will New Zealand appear with their front liners returned.
McCaw, Carter, Tony Woodcock, Brad Thorn, Jerome Kaino, Rodney So’oialo, Conrad Smith, Sitiveni Sivivatu and Mils Muliaina is a fearsome collection of names, whom will be better not only for the weeks rest, but also for the implication that there is once again a world class second tier of All Blacks to ensure the healthy competition for positions.
Unlike New Zealand, Scotland does not have the class or the polish to close out a game, a new aspect of the All Black game that appears to have developed since the nightmares of 2007.
As re-assured as kiwi supporters may be with the form of the national game, again it seems that the All Blacks are comfortably in the midst of their four year cycle of dominance – in between World Cup tournaments.
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ohtani's jacket said | November 10th 2008 @ 7:45pm | Report comment
James, I dunno about 2-3 world class players in every position.
I don’t think there’s anything innately better about our young talent compared to South Africa or Australia, we just have better coaching, better training and a better system. Most importantly we have a union that puts the All Blacks as priority no.1.
James Mortimer said | November 10th 2008 @ 9:10pm | Report comment
Well, lets have a look OJ
Even though all of them are not world class - they are at least junior international level
Fullback - Mils, Ice, and soon to be Cory Jane
Wing - Smokin Joe, Sivi, Hosea Gear, Rudi Wulf, Anthony Tuitavake,
Outside - Kahui, Conrad Smith
Inside - Ma’a Nonu, Stephen Donald (and I think Stephen Brett and Benson Stanley should be knocking on this door)
10 - Dan Carter, Donald, Weepu if needed
9 - Weepu, Cowan, Ellis
Loose Forwards - McCaw, Rodney, Kaino, Thompson, Messam, Kieran Read (plus the out of form Sione)
Locks - Williams, Thorne, Boric, Filipo, Eaton
Props - Woodcock, Tialata, Afoa, Mackintosh
Hookers - Hore, Mealaumu, Flynn, plus the outstanding Elliot
So maybe not prop, 10 and inside - but the depth is there, which is remarkable considering the famed exodus of 2007. This is also not considered numerous up and comers, that were exhibited in the ANZC, namely by the BOP and Hawkes Bay Teams, such as Zac Lawrence, Slade and Vanikolo.
Honestly, do you really think Australia and SA have the depth of NZ?
Furthermore, wether or not we dispute 2-3 world class players in each position. There is now one thing that cannot be denid, that in at least 13 of our 15 positions - we have at least one genuine world class/best in their position player in world rugby. How many teams could say that after losing 600 tests caps 12 months ago…….
westy said | November 10th 2008 @ 9:41pm | Report comment
James …Australia have never had the quality depth of New Zealand…Never ever.
ohtani's jacket said | November 10th 2008 @ 10:48pm | Report comment
Honestly, three quarters of those players have shown nothing.
If McCaw is injured again, the entire All Black ediface will go “poof” and that’s just the way it is right now. We’ve got a squad light on props and chock full of blindside flankers. Our midfield situation is as unclear as the day Tana Umaga retired and without Carter we’d be staring down the barrel in our remaining three Tests. The squad is just a touring squad and they’ve only played two Tests. The problem positions are still problem positions and unless Henry intends to rotate for Africa most of these players won’t make the 22.
Without getting too negative, I think tighthead is going to be an extremely difficult position for Henry to fill. I also think he needs to make some kind of call about what he wants from a fourth loosie. He also has to make a call re: Kahui vs. Smith because rotating them won’t help.
Perhaps my definition of world class is a little ridiculous but only McCaw and Carter strike me as world class players.
Benjamin said | November 10th 2008 @ 11:23pm | Report comment
Westy, I think the Australian WC squad of 1999 had better depth and talent than their NZ counterparts.
OJ, I agree. I think the term ‘world class’ is bandied about all too readily however I do think that Woodcock and Williams have a shout for being the best in their respective positions.
I disagree with your assertion about the 13 spot. At least now there are two clear competitors who will get regular game time at 13 with their provinces. The only issue is who the better player will be over the long term.
ohtani's jacket said | November 10th 2008 @ 11:41pm | Report comment
My defintion of world class is a player who could walk into any side in the world. Not sure if Woodcock or Williams are quite on that level.
Benjamin said | November 11th 2008 @ 12:21am | Report comment
That would be my definition too. I can’t see who is better than Woodcock? I would place him higher than Roncero, Marconnet or Sheridan. If you look at Williams as a typical 5 then his only real opposition would be Matfield and I think Williams’s work around the park is far superior. He’s aggressive, got great hands, does his tight five work and is a dood jumper. Obviously it’s only my opinion but I really, really rate him.
ohtani's jacket said | November 11th 2008 @ 12:51am | Report comment
Well, y’know Woodcock is a really typical NZ prop-forward. I don’t think he’d be a first pick for too many other sides. There’s been some question marks over his scrummaging this year and I can think of a few countries who’d choose scrummaging first, mobility and workrate second. Williams is still maturing in my estimation. I dunno if the shift back to Auckland is a particularly good move. I still don’t think he’s back to pre-injury form particularly in his work around the paddock and I dunno if he really has the greatest technique in terms of tackling, passing and hit-ups. Especially hit-ups.
Both of them are immensely valuable All Black players, but I think it’s more the case of what the do for the All Blacks than pure individual talent.
Benjamin said | November 11th 2008 @ 1:21am | Report comment
I can’t think of many better scrummaging looseheads. Roncero or Marconnet perhaps? Robinson, Va’a, Sheridan, Barcella, Horan, Jenkins, Jacobsen, Ayerza - not any of them IMO. Only two people have criticised Woodcock: Blades and PDV. The Blades criticism followed a single game v NSW and the PDV criticism was rightly found to be incorrect. The NZ pack hasn’t been as dominant as it has since 05 and I suspect that has had a knock-on effect. I think you undervalue the pair a bit which IMO is a typical NZ trait. There’s nothing wrong with saying certain players are excellent. Certainly Woodock and Hayman together managed to improve NZ scrummaging and improve the European perception following the 1999 slump. Who would you say is better?
I’m not sure about Williams moving back to Auckland either but at least they have a new coaching set up.
westy said | November 11th 2008 @ 1:34am | Report comment
Benjamin…..by depth i do not mean cover for some key positions. I agree in 99 we had this cover..Your first squad is about 25/30 it is the next 25 /30 I am talking about.Generally the gap in Australia between the first 25 and the next set in Australia is a gaping whole. less so in New Zealand.I have never doubted Australia ’s ability to put out a competitive first squad although at various times we have had better cover for key positions. This is not mere semantics……before the expansion of the super 12 New Zealand’s second squad always had access to a much higher standard of club and provincia;l football.to participate in at home.This has always improved the ability of the NZ” reserve grade squad.. Miss out on the Wallaby squad even in 99 and your access to quality consistent competitive rugby in Australia was very limited….the expanded super 14 has helped …even today the Wallabies play little club rugby ….in NZ the up and comers do get to play against the established set..much more often..
One of the historical reasons Australia were so competitive in cricket were that established test players were expected to play and did play regular club and sheffield Shield (state cricket). This participation of class improves that depth I am talking about. In NZ historically at least exceptparadoxically for the last world Cup this has always occurred in their rugby. In Australia not really. Young rising players seldom test their skills in Australia against Wallaby squad members now or in 99.
Benjamin said | November 11th 2008 @ 2:51am | Report comment
I appreciate that Westy, I thought I had misinterpreted you as soon as I had posted.
Incidentally a few younger English players have been playing in the NPC over the past few seasons. Has that not been considered as an option?
Matt said | November 11th 2008 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
That’s an interesting point Westy, because tow players who were on the outer in Australia, but who both moved onto big things were James Hilgendorf and Brock James. Both of these Aussies played a season for Taranaki and it did them a world of good. They then moved back to Aussie (Hilgendorf to the Force) and James eventually to Clermont.
Why don’t the ARU petition to have East Coast sides taking part in the NPC?
ohtani's jacket said | November 11th 2008 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
To be fair to Tony apparently he’s been playing with some sort of chronic foot injury all season and he lost Oliver, Hayman, Somerville and Jack, which was always going to weaken the NZ scrum.
Personally I love Woodcock, I just think the next few Tests will be the litmus Test for whether he can be the cornerstone of the NZ scrum, because he was always the partner to Hayman, who was a truly world class player (until he went to Newcastle it seems) and this year Somerville did the job for NZ like the long time servant that he is.
It’s difficult for me to see Ali WIlliams as one of the premier locks in world rugby. Perhaps if he was in World Cup form, but right now Brad Thorn is providing most of the grunt.
Jerry said | November 11th 2008 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
Matt - the ARU could petition all it likes, but the NZRU won’t let Australian teams join the NPC. It’s been proposed many times, but there’s no chance of it really happening.
However, with the severe weakening of depth in the Air NZ Cup I wouldn’t be surprised to see more young Australian players cropping up in the future. This would help out Australian depth somewhat though there are risks - I wouldn’t be surprised if a young Aussie produce who’s eligible for NZ selection getting snapped up by the AB selectors Devine/Cooper/Kepu style.
Nick (KIA) said | November 11th 2008 @ 7:57pm | Report comment
My 2cents.
I like the definition of world class promoted by OJ and Benjamin here.
I don’t think that many of the touring squad are any where near the type of quality players that we have previously expected to see in the ABs. Here I’m thinking of Cory Jane, Rudi Wulf, Anthony Tuitavake, Stephen Donald, any of the halfbacks, Thompson, Filipo, Eaton, Mackintosh, Flynn, and Elliot.
It’s a sign of changing times. Previously, it was bloody hard to get in the Allblacks. Great provincial players that would have been fantastic ABs would hardly get a run (eg Monkley, Henderson). Then the rotation beast appeared, more tests, so we get these lesser lights getting in the team, who often are picked way too early and sometimes don’t make much of an impact but have to be persisted with. Add to that NH clubs and all of a sudden we have guys making it into the team on the back of a couple of good games for provincial sides playing against Manawatu and Northland.
Some of these new guys added since WC07 look like they might have a bright future in ABs (eg Read, Kahui), but the others really need a couple of good S14 seasons to convince me (and the selectors I would suspect) that the should be picked again when the next batch of talent appears.
Sam Taulelei said | November 11th 2008 @ 9:33pm | Report comment
Sorry I disagree with their definition of world class as being able to walk into any team in the world. Based upon what exactly? If NZ are the world’s best team, how many of these players would just walk into the All Blacks?
I’ve always defined world class as being a player who has consistently performed at the highest level against all opposition in all conditions. There have been many players touted by their local media as being “world class” only to see them fall short when playing top class sides on tour.
I remember the 2005 Lions tour and all the hype (admittedly also from NZ scribes) surrounding the two world class Irish locks Paul O’Connell and Malcolm O’Kelly, neither of whom managed to meet those expectations. NZ is equally guilty of extolling the ability of players as being world class - Carlos Spencer and Nick Evans to name just two. They certainly played in a world class team but whether their individual ability also translated to world class is debatable at best.
England’s Danny Cipriani is another “world class” flyhalf. There is no doubt the kid has talent but I reserve judgement on his true ability until I’ve watched him perform for England after a couple of seasons in the Six Nations and on tour. Brian O’Driscoll is world class, a proven performer over many years, Gavin Henson for all his potential and ability is definitely not, regardless of what Warren Gatland and Welsh scribes state.
With all due respect James, I have to disagree with your summation over NZ’s depth. I agree with OJ that without McCaw and Carter we look very thin indeed. Naming players who have featured at various levels of their local rugby scene is an exercise that every country loves to indulge itself in when discussing depth. It only takes a handful of test experienced players to become unavailable to really expose the lack of depth in any squad. The All Blacks circa 2005/06 were the best examples of a deep playing squad as there were many quality players with more than 20 tests experience under their belts that Henry could confidently rotate without suffering too much of a dip in performance.
This current NZ side is a long, long way from achieving that as we’re still some way off from developing our best front row, backup no.7, halfback, first five (post Carter’s sabbatical), wing and backup fullback.
If the unthinkable happens and we lose to Ireland on the weekend, wherefore all our immense All Blacks playing depth?
James Mortimer said | November 11th 2008 @ 9:51pm | Report comment
Concede the point regarding world class players.
If they don’t walk into any test team in the world, they must at least make a nominal “World XV”.
Probably I was a bit too enthusiatic, and might have been wearing my All Black tinted glasses when writing my first response. However, based on the agreed definition of world class, I must say:
15: Muliaina - Surely the best fullback in world rugby. Has excelled by being kept at the back and not being rotated with panadol macdonald.
10: Carter - Still the best, although I am concerned about burnout in the next year. The jury is still out wether he is better shouldering all of the playmaking responsibility (i.e. have a true second five eighth at 12 or someone like Nonu)
8: Rodders - Best workrate of any back flank in the world, although I think it would be an even contest between him and the outstanding Italian captain Parisse
7: McCaw - Don’t need to write a thing
Lock: Williams - deserves to be there, has calmed down alot since becoming the senior New Zealand lock, he completely outplayed his South African and Australian counterparts in the closing games of the tri nations. Offers a more all round game than other class locks, but please Ali, STOP KICKING THE BALL.
Prop: Woodcock - a true old style prop, who probably is suffering not have a consistent partner on the opposite side. But when he is there the New Zealand scrum is a different machine.
So that’s six “World Class players”.
I still think that the NZ wings are close, but suffer from constant rotation. But the rocket man and sivi are as good as any in the world on their day. But wing is a quality position world wide, a la Habana, Shane Williams and Vincent Clerc
I think that there is truly no genuine world class centre in the world at the moment. O’Driscoll doesn’t control games like he used too, and I honestly believe Mortlock is in decline. Jean De Villiers would be the best 12 in the world at the moment. I think Berrick Barnes offers alot too, but I think that it would be difficult to choose the best outside.
I think that Cowan and Weepu can match it with any on the day - with Fourie Du Preez not the force he was 12-18 months ago. Personally, I think Jean Baptiste Ellisalde is the best 9 in the world, but gets moved around provincially to accommadate Kelleher.
I think that Kaino with another year or two could match it as world class, as could Kieran Read, who is an advanced genetic version of Reuben Thorne. I think that Rocky Elsom would probably get the nod as worlds best.
At lock, I am a big fan of Paul O’Connell, but personally think the Matfield and Botha are a bit too one dimensional and tend to go missing. I am looking forward to seeing how Englands lineout develops over the next few weeks.
In the front row, NZ has the goods, but to be honest, thought that Barnes should have been alot harsher with a under pressure All Blacks pack V scotland. However, some people I have spoken too believed the Scots should have been awarded a penalty try - under pressure the AB scrum was yes, but not dominated to a point that conceded a penalty try. However, there should have been more penalties.
I think Hore is there or thereabouts as the worlds best rake, personally think Smit has had a poor 2008. I think that the young Hikawera Elliot could be a class hooker in years to come. I think that the Wallabies greatest selection mistake was discarding Jeremy Paul, who I thought was genuinely world class.
Sam Taulelei said | November 11th 2008 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
James
I don’t disagree with your selections but would probably go against my fellow Wellingtonian and pick Parisse ahead of So’oialo. I’m looking forward to watching the game at Croke Park this weekend to what I’m sure will be an absolute cacophany of Irish noise and colour. The All Blacks have played at some intimidating venues in the past but by all accounts Croke Park is something else altogether.
ohtani's jacket said | November 11th 2008 @ 10:32pm | Report comment
James,
Muliaina and So’oialo are too guys who illustrate the point I’m trying to make.
In my opinion Muliaina is a consummate professional, one of the most reliable players of his generation and a valuable senior All Black. By Sam’s definition he is world class, but he won’t be remembered as a great attacking fullback like Cullen in the same way So’oialo won’t be remembered as a great No.8 like Zinzan. So’oialo does an IMMENSE job for New Zealand to the extent that it’s almost immeasurable, but he’s not a traditional No.8 and doesn’t play like one. Other sides wouldn’t pick him, hell other All Black coaches might not pick him.
There’s been a trend under Henry to select guys who fit his system and groom players as a professionals. I’d go further and argue that there hasn’t been a lot of flair to the All Blacks in recent times. Players are drilled to play in a clinical fashion. Therefore it’s difficult for me to imagine that Muliaina or So’oialo would walk into other sides like Cullen or Zinzan would have.
Other countries have different values from us and different rugby philosophies. And they’re just as proud of their players as we are. I don’t think they’d “take” our All Blacks in the same way we wouldn’t take many of their players. And I don’t think it’s the case that we have so many world class players, we just play the best rugby as a team.
Benjamin said | November 11th 2008 @ 10:45pm | Report comment
Sam, I couldn’t find many Irish fans who would call O’Kelly world class, and to be fair to O’Connell he had a season long slump and aside from the NZ Grand Slam season and Lions tour he has played very, very well against NZ. It’s unfair then to say that a world class player has “consistently performed at the highest level against all opposition in all conditions” simply because all players suffer slumps - Richie McCaw aside. Also players likeLatu the Tonga captain don’t get much of an opportunity to test themselves, however he excelled during the WC and also against England. Does the fact that Tonga don’t get much game time mean he can’t be labelled world class? It is all speculative and as OJ says some players are picked for their team abilities more than their personal ability but I think there are conditions that we could all agree on that set certain players apart from others.
OJ, Muliaina has a pretty excellent try return. I would think of him more of an attacking fb than a conservative option.
James Mortimer said | November 11th 2008 @ 11:18pm | Report comment
OJ,
Excellent point regarding the “fit”. It would be so interesting in a alternative universe to see what Deans All Blacks would look like had he had the reigns for the last few months.
To build further on your point, many New Zealand coaches have been guilty of provincial favouritism. It was said that the reason a fit again Tana Umaga was not selected in the 2003 World Cup semi final was due to Deans case supporting Macdonald as the starting number 13.
That has been the great aspect of Henry’s 2008 campaign. He has undone “philosophies” that were not working, a la the left right side openside combination seen early in the Tri Nations. Unlike All Black teams in the past, the current hybird seems to be based on a far more patient system, rather than the frantic recycling teams we saw in the past (get it to Lomu ring a bell).
However - while I would agree with OJ and rate Cullen and Brooke “real” world class, I still think Mils and Rodders have the goods to be up there. Remember that these men have suffered from positional switches and rotation, something that never happened to the paekakariki express and Zinny.
Benjamin said | November 11th 2008 @ 11:26pm | Report comment
James, what about Cullen’s switch to centreand ocasionally wing? I recall Brooke playing a few tests on the flank too.
ohtani's jacket said | November 12th 2008 @ 12:58am | Report comment
Cullen was switched to centre in one of the greatest mistakes known to man.
Therein lies the Kahui problem. In ‘99, Umaga was too good to leave out of the side, so the back three was tampered with, which, for some God unknown reason, meant that Gibson was dropped from the centres. Could Umaga have been groomed as a centre earlier? Can Kahui be groomed as a second five? He doesn’t seem like a second five to me, but depth is as much a curse as a blessing if it doesn’t solve actual problems.
Benjamin said | November 12th 2008 @ 1:04am | Report comment
Surely NZ suffered in the past 3 WCs because they haven’t had two quality outside centres? Finding a 12 will never be a problem in NZ.
ohtani's jacket said | November 12th 2008 @ 1:26am | Report comment
New Zealand have always struggled finding quality midfielders. My point is we need a combination not Smith one week, Kahui the next. Even if we were to emulate the Wallabies with Horan, Herbert and Little, the jury’s still out on the best possible midfield combination we can field.
Benjamin said | November 12th 2008 @ 1:41am | Report comment
Personally I don’t think Henry is fully convinced of his best 13 but Kahui has to gain some experience at some point and this tour is the best place to do it. Smith had the 3N 13 spot nailed down so why not give Kahui a few games? I imagine by the end of the tour Henry will have a pretty good idea.
tarpo said | November 12th 2008 @ 10:16pm | Report comment
I think Kahui could make a good fist of 2nd 5/8, more of an inside centre mould. There is a little bit of Jean de Villiers in him for mine.
Benjamin said | November 12th 2008 @ 10:48pm | Report comment
I don’t think he has enough of a kicking game to be a modern 5/8.
Tarpo said | November 13th 2008 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Benjamin, Kahui played fullback for the Highlanders (I think), he may have enough of a kicking game to build on for inside centre.
Benjamin said | November 13th 2008 @ 10:43pm | Report comment
That’s a fair point Tarpo.
ohtani's jacket said | November 19th 2008 @ 7:14am | Report comment
Still looking immense?
Benjamin said | November 19th 2008 @ 7:27am | Report comment
Some players did better than others but this game was always a potential banana skin. I think the winning margin could have been greater had Henry selected a few different combos. I think he picked the wrong team. Cracking atmosphere.
ohtani's jacket said | November 19th 2008 @ 7:33am | Report comment
I thought it was a shame Munster didn’t win.
Stephen Donald is doing a fantastic job playing himself out of the All Blacks. Messam, on the other hand, looks like the find of the tour. I hope he gets makes the Test squad.
Colin N said | November 19th 2008 @ 7:42am | Report comment
Remember this was also a Munster second team, especially in the pack. I would say that Munster deserved to win but what was Warwick doing at the end, kicking the ball out of play with time up?
Just wondering, does this count as part of the Grand Slam (ie had they lost, that would be Grand Slam over).
ohtani's jacket said | November 19th 2008 @ 7:53am | Report comment
Nah, it’s an All Black “match.” The Grand Slam only refers to Tests against the home nations. When the All Blacks lost to Munster in ‘78, they went on to claim the Grand Slam.
Hate to say it, but the refereeing confused the hell out of me.
ohtani's jacket said | November 19th 2008 @ 7:58am | Report comment
Benjamin, I felt it was the scrum and then the rolling maul that won us the game and to that end the Crusader boys got us home. Joe vs. Dougie was a hell of a way to end it.
Colin N said | November 19th 2008 @ 8:04am | Report comment
Benjamin, I was also gutted at the end, but I tend to show it by ranting at the TV. Munster defended so well for the whole game, but I think it was Mafi who came out of the defensive line, meaning the AB’s could exploit an overlap.
ohtani's jacket said | November 21st 2008 @ 12:30am | Report comment
Flynn’s out of the tour with a broken arm. Likes breaking his arm that guy. Jeez he’s had a run of it.
Last Hooker Standing!