How strong Australian rugby could have been
Roar Guru By Bruce Sheekey, 20 Nov 2008 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
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A post by fellow Roarer, Frank O’Keefe, has inspired me to write this article in which I will shamelessly re-write the history of Australian rugby by nominating various teams at chronological intervals, and including those players who defected to league, or retired too early, to get a real job back in the amateur era.
All for the purpose of demonstrating how strong Australian rugby OUGHT to have been!
But first, if John Lennon had been an Australian born, rugby union lover as well as a world famous singer-songwriter, he might have penned this:
Imagine there’s no league,
It’s easy if you try,
No defections below us,
Above us only union joy,
Imagine all the people,
Living rugby for today.
You may say that I’m a dreamer,
But I’m not the only one,
I hope someday you’ll join us,
And the rugby world will be as one.
1 – 1910.
In reality, rugby union was on its knees. The defection of Messenger in 1907, and another 15 Wallabies in 1909, had finally turned the tide of public opinion towards league. But it could have been so different! League defectors, and/or premature retirees are highlighted in bold. Other players actually appeared as is. Russell, Hickey, Messenger, McKivat, Craig, McCue, Burge and Barnett were league defectors. Hughes and Hammand retired early, while Richards was playing in SA for the Lions! Gilbert defected after this series.
15-Larry Dwyer, 14-CHARLIE RUSSELL, 13-Herb Gilbert, 12-DARB HICKEY, 11-DALLY MESSENGER, 10-Ward Prentice, 9-CHRIS MCKIVAT(c), 8-Syd Middleton(vc), 7-JIM HUGHES, 6-TOM RICHARDS, 5-PADDY McCUE, 4-PETER BURGE, 3-JACK BARNETT, 2-Tom Griffin, 1-Harry George. Bench: 22-Alf Dunbar, 21-Dinny Campbell, 20-Possum Wood, 19-BOB CRAIG, 18-Paddy Murphy, 17-CHARLES HAMMAND, 16-Jim Clarken.
2 – 1934.
Strangely, few players defected in the 20s and 30s, but getting work was a problem. And in 1934 the depression was still biting. Many of the 1933 tourists to SA retired to get work, but the team was still strong, beating the ABs. Cooke decided to stay in SA, Cerutti was injured, while Ford, Thompson, Steggall, Cowper and Bland all retired prematurely.
15-Alec Ross(c), 14-Doug McLean, 13-Cyril Towers, 12-Dooney Hayes, 11-Jockey Kelaher, 10-Welly Lewis, 9-Syd Malcolm, 8-JACK FORD, 7-Owen Bridle, 6-Aub Hodgson, 5-Bill White, 4-GRAHAM COOKE, 3-WILD BILL CERUTTI, 2-Eddie Bonis(vc), 1-EDDIE THOMPSON. Bench; 22-JACK STEGGALL, 21-DAVE COWPER, 20-Wayne Bennett, 19-Rob Loudon, 18-GEOFF BLAND, 17-Ron Walden, 16-Ted Jessep.
3 – 1953.
On tour in SA. Allan, Kearney and Mossop had all defected to league, while still relatively young. Their forward presence especially, would have been helpful in SA. In reality, Kearney wouldn’t have ousted hooker Cottrell, but for the purpose of the exercise, he is included. Windon toured, but missed the tests through injury. Piper, Tooth and Baxter were unavailable to tour. Here’s a composite team.
15-BRIAN PIPER, 14-Eddie Stapleton, 13-TREVOR ALLAN(c), 12-John Solomon, 11-Garth Jones, 10-DICK TOOTH, 9-Cyril Burke, 8-Brian Johnson, 7-Col Windon, 6-Keith Cross, 5-Rex Mossop, 4-Tony Miller, 3-JACK BAXTER, 2-KEN KEARNEY(vc), 1-Nick Shehadie. Bench: 22-Ray Colbert, 21-Murray Tate, 20-Brian Cox, 19-Norm Hughes, 18-Alan Cameron, 17-Col Forbes, 16-Nev Cottrell.
4 – 1963.
If ever a year showed how much stronger rugby could have been, this is the year. A strong touring team headed off for SA. Phelps had prematurely retired, while Miller, Chapman, Freedman and one of the Boyce twins were unavailable. Chapman was later a leading thoroughbred racehorse trainer and Freedman an America’s Cup sailor. Then first choice fullback Lenehan was injured in the last training outing before the team took off. Meanwhile, another ex-Wallaby Des Connor was playing for the All Blacks. Then later that year, the 1963-64 Kangaroos headed off with 5 ex-Wallabies in Cleary, Lisle, Summons(c), Ryan and Dick Thornett. Last but not least the 3rd Thornett brother Ken, also toured with the Kangaroos. Such is the depth, I’ve selected 2 XVs. The mind boggles!!
1st XV: 15-JIM LENEHAN, 14-MIKE CLEARY, 13-Dick Marks, 12-Beres Ellwood, 11-Jim Boyce, 10-Phil Hawthorne, 9-Ken Catchpole(vc), 8-KEVIN RYAN, 7-Greg Davis, 6-Jules Guerasimoff, 5-Rob Heming, 4-DICK THORNETT, 3-Jon White, 2-Peter Johnson, 1-JohnThornett(c).
2nd XV: 15-KEN THORNETT, 14-STU BOYCE, 13-ROD PHELPS, 12-JIMMY LISLE, 11-John Douglas, 10-ARTHUR SUMMONS(c), 9-DES CONNOR, 8-John O’Gorman, 7-Ted Heinrich, 6-GEOFF CHAPMAN, 5-Dallas O’Neill, 4-Peter Crittle, 3-TONY MILLER, 2-Mike Jenkinson, 1- JOHN FREEDMAN.
5 – 1978.
We beat 5N grand slam champions Wales, and just missed winning the series against the ABs by a failed last minute penalty. But how much better might the team have been with league defectors, unavailable and injured players? Fairfax and Price had defected to league; Crowe, McLean and Loane were injured; G.Shaw and Hillhouse were unavailable. Here’s a composite team.
15-RUSSELL FAIRFAX, 14-PHIL CROWE, 13-Andy Slack, 12-GEOFF SHAW, 11-Brendan Moon, 10-PAUL McLEAN(vc), 9-John Hipwell, 8-MARK LOANE(c), 7-RAY PRICE, 6-Greg Cornelsen, 5-Peter McLean, 4-DAVID HILLHOUSE, 3-Stan Pilecki, 2-Peter Horton, 1-John Meadows. Bench; 22-Laurie Monaghan, 21-Ken Wright, 20-Rod Hauser, 19-Gary Pearse, 18-Tony Shaw, 17-Chris Handy, 16-Bill Ross.
6 – 1987.
I’ve bypassed 1984, and gone straight to 1987, the year of the inaugural world cup. What if Mark Ella was still playing? What if indeed! How would he and Alan Jones have got on? Who would have been captain, without Slack being able to make the starting XV? O’Connor, and D’Arcy had defected to league, while Moon was injured and unavailable. Williams and Ella of course, had retired too early.
15-Roger Gould, 14-David Campese, 13-MICK O’CONNOR, 12-Mick Lynagh(vc), 11-BRENDAN MOON, 10-MARK ELLA, 9-Nick Farr-Jones, 8-Steve Tuynman, 7-Simon Poidevin(c), 6-David Codey, 5-Steve Cutler, 4-STEVE WILLIAMS, 3-Andy McIntyre, 2-Tom Lawton, 1-TONY D”ARCY. Bench: 22-Matt Burke, 20-Brett Papworth, 20-Brian Smith, 19-Jeff Miller, 18-Bill Campbell, 17-Cameron Lillicrap, 16-Mark McBain.
7 – 1991.
This is the last of our revisits. O”Connor, Burke and Papworth had defected to league. Gavin was injured on the eve of the world cup, while Lawton was playing in SA. By the 90s, rugby union was losing very few players to league, and none of the key players. Post professionalism, and we’ve seen the trend reverse.
15-Marty Roebuck, 14-David Campese, 13-MICK O’CONNOR, 12-Tim Horan, 11-Jason Little, 10-Mick Lynagh, 9-Nick Farr-Jones(c), 8-TIM GAVIN, 7-Simon Poidevin, 6-Willie Ofahengaue, 5-John Eales, 4-Rod Mccall(vc), 3-Ewen McKenzie, 2-Phil Kearns, 1-Tony Daly. Bench: 22-Matt Burke, 21-Brett Papworth, 20-Peter Slattery, 19-Troy Coker, 18-Jeff Miller, 17-Dan Crowley, 16-TOM LAWTON.
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November 20th 2008 @ 12:35pm
Jerry said | November 20th 2008 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
Sheek – I was typing my reply before I saw yours. I agree, the league players would have helped Aus, but not to the extent that some seem to think. It’s impossible to know, though – as you point out. The reality is we’ve seen players who were greats in Union fail at League and, in recent years, we’ve seen great League players struggle at Union. There’s been success stories going both ways and it’s often not the players expected to thrive who turn out for the best (I don’t think many people would have thought Matthew Ridge would be a better convert than John Gallagher for instance).
League and Rugby are two codes divided by a shared skill set, but the width of that divide is not always apparent and for some it’s proved a chasm too wide and too deep to cross.
November 20th 2008 @ 12:49pm
sheek said | November 20th 2008 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
Jerry,
One of the other points I made at the beginning in reply to Mr Mac, was that those league players, otherwise brought up in union from a young age, would in most cases have the same talent.
However, whether those talents would have been as quickly identified & successful in union as they were in league, is the unanswerable. Fun trying to figure it all out though, as long as we don’t take it too seriously.
Mr Mac,
Historically, union spread more quickly than league precisely because of its amateurism. The ultimate irony! People moved across countries, & across states, because of work. But they took their passion for rugby with them, spreading the gospel.
You only have to look at what’s happened to union since it became professional, to understand why league struggled to develop beyond narrow borders.
Where once good natured people who would do anything for union voluntarily, are now stopping & thinking, “hang on, I’m not going to do this anymore unless there’s some kind of remuneration in it for me”. Nature of the beast – money changes people’s perceptions & expectations.
November 20th 2008 @ 12:52pm
Midfielder said | November 20th 2008 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
Jerry
I played both and found it easier for RU players to play RL. …….. Having said that the problem I saw at a training park level is RL coaches had a much better understanding of what skills a RU player had more importantly they understood what skills where lacking in RL and gap skilled there coaching to meet the short fall.
General statement but in talking with a few mates like myself the RU coaches never actually understood the RL skill base to identify what shortfall where needed for gap skill training to get players ready for RU…………..
Typical example a RU player would come and coach would say this is how you where taught in RU to tackle mark up or whatever ……this is how you do it in RL…. in RU they would just hold the drills and training sessions and not tend to understand you often had no idea what was being talked about or explained to you.
Maybe this is not a problem as it more than a few months when I stopped playing either RL or RU …. but my son who plays RU said a RL player came to play with my sons RU team and he got no gap skill training ….in time left and went back to RL.
November 20th 2008 @ 1:01pm
Mr Mac said | November 20th 2008 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
Sheek
I accept the points re professionals but I was thinking more that in history there would have been a compromise ie the Union administrators would have given the players the “insurance” they wanted but the game would still have been amatuer.
Another thought re your points on professionalism – My history is not good but I wonder how did the “no hands” football become so professional and so widespread?
November 20th 2008 @ 1:06pm
Tim said | November 20th 2008 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
Jerry – the only League convert I would consider ‘great’ in recent times would Sonny Bill Williams, who has hardly had the time to prove his worth yet in Union. Other converts such as Cross, Schifoske and Gower were hardly top shelf. Timana Tahu is often touted as being a rugby league great, but the fact is that his form prior to converting was poor, and he would not have pressed for State of Origin selection had he stayed, let alone been up for a Kangaroo jumper.
Going further back, Mat Rogers was a ‘great’ prior to his injury, and there’s no real telling how good he might have been at Union because he spent roughly a third of matches he was eligible for out injured. I would argue that Lote Tuqiri’s success at Union has been roughly comparable to his success at League. Wendell Sailor was the only player I would consider a severe disappointment.
With that being said, I agree – moreover, I think it’s fairly silly to assume that in the absence of League, all League players would be playing Union. Many would have never taken to sport at all, and others would have taken to AFL (Darren Lockyer is often touted as someone with a reasonable level of talent in that area). Andrew and Matthew Johns would likely never have developed any footballing talent. Nobody would have ever heard of Jonathon Thurston, Billy Slater or Israel Folau.
November 20th 2008 @ 1:14pm
Jerry said | November 20th 2008 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Sailor and Andy Farrell were the players I was thinking of.
November 20th 2008 @ 1:15pm
Mr Mac said | November 20th 2008 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Tim
Why do you say “Nobody would have ever heard of Jonathon Thurston, Billy Slater or Israel Folau.”?
Ithe invers may be that nobody would have heard of Sam Cordingly, Adam A-C, or Stirling Mortlock!
By the way does anyone notice a resemblance between J Thurston and Danny Cipriani – not just in looks but in playing style?
November 20th 2008 @ 1:44pm
sheek said | November 20th 2008 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Mr Mac,
Perhaps the answer for the spread of soccer was simplicity. All you needed was a round ball of some description, & some open space. Beyond that, unlike rugby, you didn’t need coaching in the intracacies of the game. As Nike’s slogan says, it was a case of, “just do it”.
Most of the professional sports began with remuneration for ‘broken time’ & medical insurance, & little else. Rugby league & Australian football, & I would imagine association football, began with very basic match payments, plus medical insurance, playing gear provided, & money allowances when on tour. As I said, very basic. The big pay packets came much later.
This is the thing about the divide between union & league in Australia that drives me nuts. Had the ARU back then (or equivalent) simply provided players with medical insurance & a reasonable rep players allowance, they would have mostly been happy with that.
Although, Sean Fagan of ‘rl1908′ blog site, argues Sydney was ripe for a professional football code in the early 1900s. Had it not been rugby league, he argues, it would have been either Australian football or association football.
November 20th 2008 @ 1:58pm
Tim said | November 20th 2008 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Mr Mac – I think you’ve missed my point, which was that there’s no guarantee that Thurston, Inglis et al would play any sport _at all_ if Rugby League did not exist, and even if they did, there’s no guarantee that it would be Rugby Union. The problem with coming up with postulating ‘what if Rugby Union had access to league players?’ lies not just in the fundamental differences in skill sets required in the two codes, but also in the fact that many league players only came to develop their footballing skills because of league’s prominence in their communities. You can’t just assume that union would have covered all the areas that together, Union and League now appeal to, had League never come to exist.
November 20th 2008 @ 2:08pm
The Link said | November 20th 2008 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
For what its worth I reckon Jason Robinson is the best League to Union convert over the last 10 years (if not all time?).
What I think we’re all missing is that many kids play both codes at some stage in their development, particularly if they’re from a public school. Even GPS private school kids may have some League exposure if they went to a public primary school.
I’ve said elsewhere on this site that Australia and NZ generally produce the best rugby football players on the planet. In NZ its overwhelmingly in Rugby, in Australia mostly in League. This is why both countries dominate either code.