By Adrian Musolino
January 11th 2009 @ 7:10am
Related coverage
Tasmanian franchise must be a priority for the A-League
While the focus of the next round of A-League expansion is on the prospective second teams from Melbourne and Sydney, the FFA should instead turn its attention south to Tasmania, a state ignored by the majority of sporting codes and therefore a relatively unchallenged market for a franchise, let alone the league, to establish itself in.
Tasmania United FC is bidding for submission for the 2011-12 season and is facing tough opposition from not just the Melbourne and Sydney franchises but also Wollongong and Canberra.
But unlike the franchises in Melbourne and Sydney, which will only grow a supporter base by robbing fans from already established A-League teams, and Wollongong and Canberra who already host NRL teams in the rugby heartland, Tasmania is a relatively untouched sporting base.
A franchise in Tasmania has the potential to replicate the success of the Central Coast Mariners.
There are some noticeable comparisons between the two.
The population of the greater Hobart region is shaded by the whole of the Central Coast, but the Tasmanian franchise would attract fans from all over the state.
In fact the population of Hobart is larger than Townsville, home of the North Queensland Fury, by approximately 50,000. There is no excuse therefore that the state is too small for a franchise and therefore lacks the potential for a successful business operation.
With a base in Hobart, the only impediment for the franchise would be attracting fans to home matches from other centres such as Davenport, Launceston and Burnie given the distance between Tasmania’s most populous centres.
However, there is also the possibility, first raised when Tasmania was mentioned with regard to expansion, of splitting home games between Hobart and Launceston.
Just as the Central Coast has been ignored by other codes, so too has Tasmania.
The AFL has played hardball with Tasmania instead focusing its attentions on the Gold Coast and West Sydney. Despite significant interest in the state for Aussie rules, the locals only have Victorian clubs such as Hawthorn occasionally visiting.
With no AFL, NBL or NRL franchises and only the Tasmanian Tigers state cricket side, the Tasmanian A-League franchise would be relatively unchallenged for attention and sponsors in the state.
Like Central Coast, it would unite the whole region behind one team and the A-League would gain a massive heads up on the other codes.
The A-League would ride into town and give Tasmanian fans what they crave so desperately, a presence in a major national sporting league.
This would win over the hearts and minds of the next generation of Tasmanians, enticing them to play the round ball game over other sporting codes, a game that enables them to represent their state.
It could also lead to a better state league format from the current separated north and south leagues. A united state league would help the development of local talent with an obvious link to the A-League.
It would also give the A-League more of a national representation than both the AFL and NRL.
Central Coast has proven that a team deeply immersed in the local community, with little opposition from other codes, can build a solid supporter base, business model and infrastructure for future growth despite the smaller population base compared with other franchises.
This is what the A-League should be looking towards with expansion and Hobart and Tasmania fit the bill perfectly.
The second Melbourne and Sydney franchises may have some powerful backers, but the FFA would be wise to look to Tasmania instead.
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Sam said | January 11th 2009 @ 7:42am | Report comment
I don’t agree with this right now, but later on down the track it would be ok. More teams in Australia’s two biggest cities means more media space which means more interest from the population (particularly in derby games). To let the AFL get into Western Sydney first particularly is a bad move. Footall in Western Sydney is massively popular and the infrastructure, training facilities and support base is already there. There are kids playing everywhere.
Kazama said | January 11th 2009 @ 8:40am | Report comment
I agree, Adrian. I think it is a huge mistake for the AFL to have ignored Tasmania. Tasmania has a fantastic Aussie Rules heritage and the AFL admitted that their bid for a new club was excellent, yet they refused to pursue the matter further.
So, the door is open for the A-League. For the last three seasons Adelaide have played Melbourne at Aurora stadium in the Preseason Cup and the attendances haven’t been too bad (6834 in 06; 8061 in 07; 4720 in 08) considering it is warm up cup and neither of the competitors represent the local populace. It shows at least there is an interest in football in the state. Also, the Adelaide youth team played a Tasmania XI in a friendly before the Adelaide v Wellington game at Hindmarsh late last year, won 3-2 by the Tasmanians I think.
Given that the Tasmanians are used to being completely ignored by the other football codes, I think it would be a great move for the FFA to give them a franchise. And while I have my concerns about expanding too quickly, I think with little competition a Tasmanian team would be less of a risk than in other areas that would rely more heavily on big name signings and results.
Kazama said | January 11th 2009 @ 8:44am | Report comment
Addenda – The lower crowd last year may have been due to bad weather.
Forgetmenot said | January 11th 2009 @ 10:02am | Report comment
As i have said before i think it could be a good move for the AFL to put in the Gold Coast and Tassie teams at the same time, and then wait a few years and then place a new team in Western Australia (Perth perhaps?? or Subiaco) and then have a team in Western Sydney.
A Tasmanian A-League team will face all of the same problems as an AFL team except one, but will also have an additional problem. The AFL problem is that everyone their has a team so it would take a while to establish the team. The A-league problem is that everyone follows AFL, so in the first few years will be very hard to attract support (both crowds and corporate).
Daveed said | January 11th 2009 @ 10:09am | Report comment
As a soccer supporter for over 40 years I would like to agree but I have grave reservations about the financial viability of a Tasmanian Club. I call Tasmania my home, have done for many years but I have become a little tired of well meant but fanciful propositions the tug at the heart strings but ignore the head.
Our government sponsored the Hawthorn Football Club to the tune of A$5m which resulted in only a handful of second strings games that hardly set the world on fire in attendance numbers. That same government bought three ferries for over $100m of our monies without a business case and on the cusp of the advent of discount airlines and even following the sale of one and the termination of the Sydney route continues to looose us huge amounts of money. Many local business when for sale are marketed as “life-style businesses” because they cannot measure up to reigorous economic analysis.
What is required is a full business case that examines what sort and size of audience would be required on a regular basis to make this type of development viable not only for one year but a good many years to come… If its not that life so lets move on BUT LET US NOT KEEP UP A PRETENSE NOR RAISE THE HOPES OF SOCCER SUPPORTERS UNTIL A REAL ANALYSIS (which I would strongly support) HAS BEEN COMPLETED.
Koala Bear said | January 11th 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
A franchise in Tasmania has the potential to replicate the success of the Central Coast Mariners.
Adrian,
I agree with you .. Tasmania is more important than a second team in Melbourne or Sydney .. John O’Neill’s original plan of one city one team needs to be heeded to .. It was not so long ago Melb V and AU played a trial game in Launceston and attracted 8k+ so there is a real footballing community there wanting to see HAL Football. We must give it to them very soon.. This with ACT would complete a real National Football Competition that no other code can boast of..
Just aside to that it will create a real derby atmosphere with Melb, Adelaide, and Tassie, and will add a healthy hatred for the Northern clubs ..
Kasama,
you are right that last Tassie attendance was a wet night …
~~~~~~~~
KB
Sam said | January 11th 2009 @ 11:30am | Report comment
I think we will see what a city rivalry is like with the new Gold Coast team. Brisbane / Gold Coast is almost one city within itself, so with a city type rivalry there you will get a good indication of how successful two teams in a city will be. I just think you have to go where the population is. I mean even realistically Central Coast is practically part of Sydney.
Midfielder said | January 11th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
The CC always had heaps more players than other codes , Tassie does not… also unlike the NRL I am sure the AFL would react and re locate a Melbourne team
aussie_sly said | January 11th 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
first up, daveed its FOOTBALL not soccer and secondly good article, tassie really is an untapped market but having watched videos of their state league its not very encouraging, its kinda reminds me of watching the local 10 yr olds play but maybe having an HAL team there could raise the standard, cant see too many players wanting to go to tassie tho, unless they get a big backer like gold coast has, be interesting to see the crowd they would get for a socceroos game, even a friendly. Another point i would like to make is why dont we have a state of origin type cup series midseason? With the new qld teams coming in it’d be a perfect little tournament to raise profile of the game and we should also bring back the friendly series against new zealand, just two games home and away every year would be awesome
Michael C said | January 11th 2009 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
aussie_sly – - – if Daveed is comfortable using that phrase – - let him……..otherwise, there’s a thread discussing that topic and if you feel so strongly that you seek to ‘correct’ (in your mind) a 40 year supporter/fan of the game of ‘Association Football’ (AKA soccer) – - then, please, present your case. Otherwise, let the man speak and refer to the game as he sees fit.
KB –
a HUUUUGGGGEE call to suggest a Tassie franchise would be more important than a second team in either of Melb or Sydney…………a huge call. Might I ask it this way – - would a SUCCESSFUL Tassie franchise be as important as a SUCCESSFUL 2nd franchise in either of Melb or Sydney??
Adrian Musolino said | January 11th 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
As for the players, the population is relative to Central Coast and Townsville so there will be enough of a net to catch some quality players. The point is the franchise would win over a lot of young players and, because there is no significant opposition from other codes, football would have a leg up on future development in the state.
I still believe a second Victorian team is the best bet for the next expansion, but I have doubts about a second Sydney side given the struggles of Sydney FC.
What I’m saying is Tasmania is one of the best options for A-League expansion. Central Coast has proven how easier it is to establish an A-League franchise in a region without other code franchises.
Kazama said | January 11th 2009 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
I doubt anyone (and especially not Les Murray) would have thought that a team from Gosford could financially outperform a team based in Sydney in a stable professional sports competition, yet that is the case in the A-League.
I don’t see why Tasmania, if well managed and supported by the fans, couldn’t be as successful. JFA-style long-term thinking here, KB is correct IMO: a Tasmanian team would be far more important for football than a second Melbourne or Sydney team.
Forgetmenot said | January 11th 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
A relocated AFL team would not work in Tasmania. It needs an entirely new team to call their own.
Adrian,
They way you describe it, it sounds like the AFL and FFA are in very similar circumstances in regards to the expansion in Sydney. Both the Swans and Sydney FC are going poorly in regards to attendance and membership etc.
Also any sport that wants a team in Tassie has to address the competition between Launceston and Hobart. Tasmanians don’t like travelling much. People from Launceston hardly ever go to Hobart, why would they go for a sport that hardly any of them care about?
I have suggested that a Tassie AFL team would split games between Hobart and Launceston, with bigger games at Aurora. And then perhaps upgrading Bellrieve to 25000 would move the big games to Hobart.
Kim Graham said | January 11th 2009 @ 2:20pm | Report comment
Adrian, While I generally agree with your article about the need to expand into Tasmania, I think that the expansion should really take place on Court 3. Without expansion of the A League into Court 3, the financial stability of the league could be jeopardized. Regards, Kim.
james said | January 11th 2009 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
Adrian
to be fair the reason sydney is struggling for crowds is because they did not engage the community out west, add onto that the fact that SFS os a pain to get to from the west. A team in Parramatta could be very succesful if the comunity has been engaged.
I think Tassie would be a smart expansion after a 2nd sydney and melb team, them along with canberra (to avoid NSW being over represented) could really add some flavour. My mouth waters at the thought of playing in the heat of townsville one week then the much colder tempreatures of tassie the next
James Ward said | January 11th 2009 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
Everyone talks about Sydney being such an important market but the fact is they don’t turn up in great numbers given the population of the city and that includes to Sydney FC games, the Swans, NRL matches etc.
They are spoilt for choice with so many Socceroos games, concerts, events etc so there is so much competition.
I know a team in West Sydney will have it’s on supporter base in Paramatta, Blacktown or wherever but the fact is it will still detract fans from Sydney FC.
Michael C said | January 11th 2009 @ 4:20pm | Report comment
Players don’t come into it – -
just as that the AFL (should they choose to insert a team – {create, relocate, whatever}) have a centralised player pool via the draft – - such that only in the case of a start from scratch side might it be preferred to follow the GC17 option of establishing a focussed and ‘elite’ local junior squad as the most public up front incarnation of the club.
However, soccer – - – has a vastly greater ‘pool’ of players – - both ALL across Australia (but, mostly in NSW) and globally. The issue surely isn’t about provision of local talent……..otherwise……..there probably wouldn’t be a NZ side in the HAL!!!!
btw – - for anyone hoping to have a ‘unified’ state side for Tassie….best just wait and see if they can once again get a statewide footy league working harmoniously!!!!!! they’re trying….again…….wait and see.
Forgetmenot – -
the Swans attendance vs SFC can’t be compared. I’ve stated before, the Swans 2008 SCG crowd average was actually UP on the previous season. And, for 4 rather than the previous 7 years 3 H&A games at Homebush, the Swans had their 3rd best ever crowd average at that venue with 1 extra game……………………who on earth would suggest that was a bad attendance showing in a year where they only just scrapped into the finals and seem to lack any real impetus. Not a bad result at all.
Membership, sponsorship, tv ratings…………they’re other issues.
James Ward -
’spoilt for choice’?? What? Socceroos games draw bigger crowds to the MCG, they have concerts in Melb too – - – even some white clad NYE ‘bash’ that drew 40K to Docklands!!! (apparently that might have gained some recognition outside of Melb to soccer folk – - more for the damage done to the surface). In Melb, we’re about to head into 2 weeks of 1 of 4 Tennis Grand Slam tournements……….as some put it, it’s like having an AFL GF every day for 2 weeks.
Look – - it just seems that you’re making excuses for Sydney re ’spoilt for choice’…………..because……..in the main……..that argument would only hold if there was a few of those events that WERE actually well attended…………but, instead, it’s just average across the board.
James Ward said | January 11th 2009 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
Melbourne is more of a sporting city based on attendance figures in all codes and therefore would be able to sustain a second A-League team better than Sydney
Adrian Musolino said | January 11th 2009 @ 5:22pm | Report comment
Forgetmenot, I agree the distance between Hobart and the northern cities of the state is a concern. Dividing home games with Hobart staging the majority of fixtures and Launceston the rest could work.
Westy said | January 11th 2009 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
The Sydney Swans will do just fine provided they play at SCG especially with the new Trumper stand. This is their primary territory. Sydney is all about events. For example there is only one city in Australia that has rising crowds for test match cricket and that is Sydney. The New Year test is an institution.
Sydney FC is a eastern suburbs franchise. . It is not and never will be a community based sydney team. I find the ignorance in some positions adopted here amazing. Sydney FC smacks of bling . It has Hakoah and Sydney City written all over it. I remember the days when Frank’s Sydney City played Parramatta Melita at granville to a packed house. Remember there were more people in aggregate attending NSL games in aggregate annually for matches in Sydney then Sydney FC gets through its gates. More fundamentally take out Sydney pay tv subscribers and my god football ’s paytv figures take a battering. . It is the Greater Sydney area that provides a huge part of elite juniors.No team has the heartland of Australian football yet. There is still a powerful residual tendency in this market to bypass the Aleague both as spectators and to encourage its quality players to go overseas as young as possible.Most premier NSW state league clubs do so as amatter of course. Sydney FC has little nexus with this market. difficult as it is to understand this is football country with past loyalties not easily broken and an awareness of quality football.. They are much more used to community based clubs then Bling.
The AFL is the only code that matches its crowds with television dominance. Apart from its final series the NRL even in its ARL heyday was suburban in character averaging at best 20000 crowds packed into suburban grounds . Good atmosphere but that was it. Even the most biased observer however would not question rugby league is a potent competitor on the box. This is where Sydney counts. This is not some Sydney centric bias but millions of television sets mobile phones etc on in Sydney. I am not sure Tasmania has much nexus with this market whereas Woollongong does. Liverpool is the centre of Sydney ’s football heartland . The sad thing was the failure of the Bulldogs and Liverpool Council to get the 35000 rectangular stadium built at Liverpool . The concept was sound just the people implementing it left much to be desired.
thinker said | January 11th 2009 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
Tasmaina united for full time inclusion NYL09-10
If the can prove them selves with a youth team then allow them in.
Tassie in, Wellington out
Sam said | January 11th 2009 @ 8:49pm | Report comment
Westy
I live out in West Sydney and I still am hopeful that Sydney FC will get rid of that Bling tag. I went to the game Sydney FC v Wellington today and it was good to see the team play some young players and look to the future. This is the kind of thing they need to do to get that grassroots feel about the club. Danning, Grant and Cairncross have some real talent.
All this crap about Sydney needing to be the glamour team is just crap. It is spoken about people who then want to knock them down when they fail. Only got a crowd of 9600 today but hopefully will start to improve once the team is built up and play good football.
It is important to have two teams in Sydney as the league needs to capture the whole Sydney market. It is too hard to explain this to people who don’t live in Sydney. Media coverage and TV ratings are more important in Sydney than crowds. Just ask NRL. Two teams in Melbourne is also important in Melbourne to give Victory a rival. Victory is becoming a huge club so the competition will be good.
Slippery Jim said | January 11th 2009 @ 8:52pm | Report comment
aussie_sly, forty years of being a round ball fan means daveed can call it whatever he likes, don’t you think? If you mentioned ‘football’ to most Tasmanians they would think you meant AFL.
I am a big supporter of a bid for a Tasmanian A-League club, the state is crying out for national representation, and this would provide it, as well as spreading the A-League to one more state (I mean, we have a club from NZ for crying out loud!), not only that but it would get one over the AFL.
Bring it on.
aussie_sly said | January 11th 2009 @ 10:24pm | Report comment
we officially changed the name to football so i think that all fans should be calling it football. Intercity rivalry will always give a boost to the league but the question is who could sustain the rivalry longer, i think that if a second melbourne team came in they’d have a much healthier rivalry with the victory where as if a second sydney team came in i think it would all but kill off SFC if they did it right like the CCM, if they engage the community and stuff then bling fc would really lose crowds that they just dont have to lose. The FFA should be looking at canberra and darwin as well as tassie so we can have a truly national league, modu team one state i say, for now atleast, grow the game nationally then put in the extra city teams
Midfielder said | January 11th 2009 @ 10:39pm | Report comment
Westy
Good post re SFC … Sam a rebuilt Gabbie stadium in Seven Hills would be the perfect place to run Sydney’s second team… current stadium capicity about 7, 000 … but trains, buses, parking main road exits close to M7.
aussie_sly said | January 11th 2009 @ 10:56pm | Report comment
midfielder, totally agree, gabbie stadium would be perfect to redevelop, it’d be like bluetongue on the coast being its so close to train station. A blacktown team would be good and probly better than one from penrith being its so much farther it wouldn’t draw fans from parramatta as much as it would lithgow.
Sam said | January 11th 2009 @ 11:17pm | Report comment
Midfielder
I think if they could get the capacity to 15,000 it would be good. Otherwise I think sharing of stadiums between Parramatta, Penrith, Campbelltown and Blacktown (if stadium rebuilt) is the way to go. To get out to all those outer regional Sydney areas must be the way to go. Sydney FC can have the rest of Sydney. Each team can have its own area and market to that properly.
This will cover and reach out to the whole of Sydney and puts football in front of AFL and rugby union in Sydney in terms of its reach. After that you can put new teams in Tasmania, Darwin or wherever anybody wants it.
Westy said | January 11th 2009 @ 11:19pm | Report comment
Sam Sydney FC have a problem when people in Blacktown wear Mariners gear. Iagree Liverpool or Blacktown are the ket centres. transport wise it is Blacktown.
james said | January 12th 2009 @ 12:24am | Report comment
Parramatta is still my preference for a west sydney team, simply because it is in the middle of most western sydney demographics and is probably the most easily accessible, people from penrith,blacktown, and fairfield would all travel to parramatta to watch a west syd team play. add onto that the locals in parramatta, you now have 4 big suburbs who are within close distance to parramatta. Attraciting fans from liverpool would not be too hard either because it still is only about 25min drive from parra
Koala Bear said | January 12th 2009 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Second teams in Sydney and Melbourne are a must and one day I hope it happens .. However, what is needed right now, is a national presence of the HAL across the nation’s print and TV media; that’s why I feel that we must continue down the road of John Neill’s concept, “One-City-One-Team Strategy” .. ACT should be the next after .. Then the second teams of the major cities Parramatta and Geelong .. Not discounting the Northern Territory, Darwin perhaps…
~~~~~~~~~
KB
Millster said | January 12th 2009 @ 9:05am | Report comment
This article brings back to the surface my total befuddlement at the fact that the AFL have not moved into Tassie. Yes I agree with Adrian that it is an interesting prospect for HAL, but that is only so due to how seriously the AFL is mis-focused in not having a team in there like…. tomorrow. I say this as a hard-arsed football fan but also one that is regularly in Tasmania – while I would be pleased for my code if Tassie FC got up, I would be even more pleased for the citizens of the southern island if, for all the flaws of that comp, they finally got their long-cherished team in the AFL big league.
To KB, respectfully and affectionately I disagree with 2nd Melb and 2nd Sydney not having primacy over these other regions for HAL. Taking the Sydney market which I know best, for al lthe woess of Sydney FC, my assessment is that the west AND ALSO the Illawarra are ripe for a team, and the presence of either or both of these would be great for the HAL in so many dimensions.
Koala Bear said | January 12th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Westy said: Sam Sydney FC have a problem when people in Blacktown wear Mariners gear. Iagree Liverpool or Blacktown are the ket centres. transport wise it is Blacktown.
Westy,
That’s not a problem, that’s healthy competition.. CCM are the form team and that’s good when the kids are jumping on board .. Then down the line in the future SFC will turn it around and they will embrace SFC .. That’s how it works, when your nearest teams are on top you go and buy their merchandise to show your support.. However, fans can turn if the next door neighbour finds form and entry into the prestigious tournaments (ACL) .. It’s all good for local Football to have fans connected to two or even three teams in the greater Sydney catchment area .. But, I would be worried if the lads were wearing Melb Vic shirts .. Indeed that would be a major concern…
~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | January 12th 2009 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Millster,
Don’t worry about the Grooky lads they can look after themselves; Adrian is spot on .. Tassie is a must … Sydney and Melbourne football tragics are well catered for and have a team they can follow, and read about in their local press.. The border line ones still can stay in touch with Football supporting SFC or Melb V.. .. However, the Football tragics in Tassie have nothing to watch or read about in their local press, until they have a HAL team of their own; there is enough evidence to suggest from the HAL trial matches in Tassie that they can attract as many fans as they do in Wellington; if not more, the same goes for ATC .. I am not advocating that there should not be a second teams in the major cities, but for now let SFC and Melb Vic build on what they have .. Who can say by 2012 we could even see 4 new teams emerge at the one time in 2012 .. But in my opinion we should stay on track with John O’Neill’s one-team-one-city strategy… To increase the national media coverage for the HAL..
~~~~~~~~
KB
Finno said | January 12th 2009 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Yeah why not a Tassie team they might last a couple of years but you aint gonna die wondering are you. Then again like CCM be a good oportunity for Tassie.
The A- League should give a Tassie team a run, better idea than a 2nd Melbourne team or Sydney team. I think the Tassie public is pretty pissed that the AFL wont give them a team considering that it the major sport in Tassie.
It really should be:
Sydney
Melbourne
Brisbane
Perth
Adelaide
Newcastle
Central Coast
Gold Coast
Nth Qld
Canberra
Tassie
Maybes
Wellington – not Aussie and might need to justify it life in the A- League…. ( what would happen in the world club championship if Wellington won? that would be 2 NZ teams.)
2nd Melbourne Team …only becasue of the current support is strong…would you take 1/3 of the Victory supporters?
Darwin ( very iffy that one) . but like the Tassie AFL they have been left in the cold …locals would love it having a national team.
Singapore ( to far really 8 hours from Brisbane… 10 from Melbourne…
Millster said | January 12th 2009 @ 9:55am | Report comment
KB – I guess my view is that a second team in Melbourne and Sydney is worth far more media coverage than if those teams were elsewhere….
Hey how about this for a prediction after last weekend’s results. I see that Sydney has the faintest hope of making the finals. Is this an opening forr Aloisi’s dream script? Will a goal from him not only scrape us in but in doing so also erase the underperforming season in one moment? Will he step up in the finals and prove himself as the big-game player that he is touted to be? How much of the normal season will we remember if SFC is still on the park come preminary finals time? Of course the irony is that most of this will be due (if it occurs) to the fact that Colosimo will finally show up to link with Bimbi and Musaliak in the midfield, finally giving us some guts there. And the backline will contine to be a worry so it will be a case of having to score more than we concede each step of the way…
Towser said | January 12th 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
KB
Absolutely agree with you about the national presence. Football interest has spread fairly evenly across the nation since WW2 due to post war migration. So the priority should be teams in whatever geographical areas can support an A-League side due to population. Tasmania fits this category.
I dont understand the push for a 2nd Melbourne team. Where would it be located? The only answer to this question I’ve received so far is at the new Swan st? stadium sharing with MV.
Maybe its my Pommie upbringing as far as football goes but your home ground is your fortress. It is impossible to imagine Owls unt Blades “Sharing”. Your own ground is part of the triibalism of football.
Whereas a West Sydney team has a ready made “home” ground at Parramatta in a central location as stated by previous posters. Would be more preferable that it didn’t share also with another sport(RL-pitch issues) but that is the reality of sport in Australia. Teams in both sports however have their “home” ground which fans can identify with as solely theirs ,as I say to me an important part of tribalism,your own turf.
Just as an aside & a tip for SFC to get a regular crowd support of 15-20000. Perth are starting to play the sort of football that earned them 15000 crowds in the NSL. So over 9000 turned up for yesterdays match & previously 12,500 so a creep upwards despite little chance of a final 4 spot towards the season end.(Perth another case also to add to the argument that the season is way to short). Perth in a sense is a mini Sydney in relation to the percentage of overseas born. ie Perth-33.7
Sydney-33.4. The next statement is not off the top of my head but through contacts in Perth confirmed & upheld by reading PG forums over a number of years. Perth got that support because migrants & their families from different ethnic communities got behind the club. Why because even though the football was not EPL standard it still provideds sufficient intensity & excitement to resurrect their dormant football interest. Also of course the bandwagon element jumped aboard at finals time. Paradoxically since the start of the A-League this has been the reverse & crowds dropped away. Of course winning & playing good football go hand in hand also. I observed this myself,where was the old Perth ?. Then in the last few weeks they start to appear. Old PG playing decent football & winning.
Therefore SFC need to in fact to mould themselves on Perth in order to get back on track.
Crowds no doubt will improve once the team is built up and plays good football. I’m not going to make a judgement call as to how this will happen with new owners coming in,but like in Perth it needs to happen.
Towser said | January 12th 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Sydney should read-34.4
Michael C said | January 12th 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
KB -
probably the main thing lacking in Syndey and Melbourne re the HAL is a game a week.
You can go 3 weeks straight without a single game in Melbourne.
IN Sydney – - it’s a fraction less obvious as you have games a coupla hours up the road in Gosford and Newcastle.
Millster -
the reason the AFL haven’t focussed on Tassie (well, one of the reasons) – relates directly to this HAL conundrum.
The value of 2 team cities/states is illustrated by WA and SA. (however, moreso WA with healthy Fremantle vs Perth). The main thing, is a game a week at the local stadium, in the local press and also a game a week televised in from somewhere around the nation that is of more than ‘passing’ interest.
The AFL are relatively rushing (now) to get to that point with QLD and NSW. And why wouldn’t you. A game a week plus another game each week televised in of more than just passing interest. (eventually).
How far down the track would we anticipate Tassie having 2 AFL or 2 HAL clubs? The answer I think you’d find is compelling as to why there’s now hurry up in that outpost of Australia.
Redb said | January 12th 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
People still forget that Taswegians already have an AFL team from the VFL days, this combined with the decentralised nature of the population makes it very hard to run and fund an AFL team out of Tassie. The cheaper A League franchises would be easier to setup than an AFL team.
In saying that I agree with forgetmenot, GC and Tassie are better choices for AFL expansion.
As for the HAL getting one up on the AFL, keep dreaming. Co-existence is entirely possible, it is not a zero sum game for code over the other. Even if Tassie wait another five years later for an AFL team over a HAL team it will still work. If the Tassie HAL team is a on field failure this would make it even more attractive for the AFL to come in with the tradtional game for the locals. You can’t have every team doing well, there has to be losers and the losers ‘lose’ their crowd very quickly for new franchise teams.
In the end, i think Tassie is a difficult sporting market to crack, it is also one of the poorest regions in OZ.
Redb
Millster said | January 12th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
MC – I have an only partial agreement with that as the basis for the structuring arrangement. The Eagles (and to a lesser extent the Crows) were hugely popular teams long before a second club was introduced into their states. The one game per week thing is vital, I agree, in the non-core states for a code where momentum has to be maintanined. But in already evangelised states (such as Tasmania would be were it to get an AFL club) this argument I think is less important and that one club would get a strong spine of support even when only playing on the island once a fortnight. On the other hand I do see that maybe the argument isn’t about Tassie at all but more about getting the 2 clubs / local games each week thing in the northern states as a priority above all others. But that is a far higher risk, higher investment, higher potential for failure proposition for the AFL and I’m surprised that they are not grabbing the ‘free kick and 50 metres’ that Tassie represents with both hands.
KB – I don’t think Sydney is by any means saturated for football support. I think SFC do bugger all in the rip market of the inner west, and also in the Botany to Brighton stretch just south of their normal stomping ground. Even if these were covered I see heaps of logic and room for a club covering the west of the city, and another for the Illawarra (perhaps including Sutherland Shire). Finally I’d love to see Canberra get up to cover the south of the state – not the least of which because the stadium down there is a magic little ground – but I’d like to see them properly linked to the south coast and also to the riverina.