i think wollongong would be ahead of Geelong

Were the push to be marketed effectively, current playing numbers certainly suggest there might be enough grass roots support across the state to make the cause viable. I think “The Mercury” recently published youth participation figures for kids up to 14 years for the major sports: roughly 12500 for football, 8500 for Australian football, 4500 for cricket.
As for the culture of supporting a ‘soccer’ team, the jury is out on this one.

Did you know that on a per capita basis, the state of Tasmania is where support for the AFL is strongest! Ironically, an A-League team would be far more viable than an AFL team because Tasmanians would prefer to continue supporting their traditional AFL team. Tasmanians would more likely attend AFL matches to watch their AFL team rather than the Tasmanian team!

What makes me nervous are 3 things:

Basketball: Casino City (based in Launnie) and The Hobart Devils (based in Hobart) – both folded partly because both soley based themselves in one city only.

Footy (VFL): Tassie Devils (played games in Hobart and Launnie) – the history of this club was riddled with ridiculous in-fighting and squabbling as to where games were to be played, and where the team was to train. Not to mention the ongoing bickering.

Tasmanian have a habit of supporting something strongly at first then ‘losing interest’ over time – as with Wellingtonians’ support for The Phoenix.

I’d put money on the HAL expanding thus:

Gold Coast
Townsville
————-
Melbourne (Casey?)
South Coast (Wollongong)
————-
Western Sydney
Canberra
————-
Tassie – dependent upon the Phoenix being either in – then out (thnx to Mohamed Bin Hamman) – then back in (thnx to Sepp Blatter) – then perhaps out again (thnx to Mohamed Bin Hamman)

Did you also know – IF that well-known joke about Tasmanians were true, I’d be known as “The two Ronnies from Lonnie”. Mmmhh.

The difference is we dont have to wait for a special event to get a big crowd atmosphere with the MCG on our doorstep. The roar is unbeleivable when they bounce the ball.

Redb

Launceston pre-season attendances have been 6800, 8000 and 4700 for the past three seasons. The last one was in 6 degrees in the rain.

Tasmania’s U21 team played four friendly matches vs NYL teams in Nov/Dec. They lost to Sydney 4-1 at SFS, defeated Queensland 1-0 at North Hobart Oval, defeated Melbourne 1-0 at NHO, and defeated Adelaide 3-2 at Hindmarsh.

AFLs dominance in Tas can be compared to NRL’s dominance in the Central Coast. Ignored by the dominant code, embraced their A-League team, which is turning a profit after four years – and look at the facility that CCM is building now!

I believe there are 3 socceroos working on a bid for a second Sydney/Wollongong team – Lucas Neill, Mark Schwarzer and Tim Cahill as well as a group of businessmen in Sydney’s West, so would be very difficult for Tassie to get the jump on 2nd Sydney, 2nd Melbourne , Wollongong or Canberra for the last 2 remaining positions in 2011.

I agree. Let’s hope Lucas Neill has found some funding to put a team forward in 2010/2011.

We’ve still got our memories: Cathy Freeman, 2000 Olympics, 2003 Rugby Union World Cup Final, 2005 World Cup Qualifier v Uruguay.

I rate those events right up there against anything for atmosphere.

You should try 80,000 screaming fans at the MCG for atmosphere.

Red

I know what you’re saying, but all the Melbourne AFL tend tend to be very inner city based from what I gather. Even when they had their own grounds they weren’t too far from the centre of the city. The consolidation of the two stadiums was just a way of providing better facilities for the public to go to, but in the meantime it in my opinion has lost that character of teams having their own home ground. That is another story though.. This make makes Melbourne a more centralized city. Didn’t they knock over Waverley?

In the meantime you travel from the centre of Sydney to Penrith, Campbelltown or Wollongong. This is a different story all together. When AFL teams play everyone goes to the Melbourne CBD. When NRL teams play Manly supporters don’t travel to Penrith or vice versa. Hence at most club games you get really only one set of supporters and crowds of 10,000 to 15,000. That is why clubs don’t like ANZ Stadium. It doesn’t give them that home ground advantage they crave. You’ll be surprised how good even a crowd of 15,000 in a small stadium can sound when they make enough noise.

I dont think you grasp the reality of the 9 AFL clubs in Melbourne, they may share only two venues but that is due to the need to provide state of the art stadiums with crowd capacities of 30,000+. the difference with the NRL is that their suburban clubs rarely attract 30,000+ plus crowds thus their suburban venues can cope. There is no need for the NRL to consolidate into the SFS and ANZ stadium for example.

Melbourne is also very spread out like Sydney. Casey as mentioned above is some 40kms from the Melb CBD. I still question how a second melb HAL team will work, how will it differentiate from Melbourne Victory? I agree Western Sydney maybe different enough from Sydney FC though.

Redb

Well I hope your right,but there still seems a lot of grey areas for a 2nd Melbourne team judging by your comments,as opposed to Sydneys West. I know this for Sydney as I lived there for a number of years equally shared between the Eastern Suburbs & Campbelltown(Big problems out that way now).
You can still stuff it up even on this basis as SFC have done but its harder if you have no “Real” identity to sell.
It will in interesting to see if a second Melbourne team ever comes off as Geoff Lord has publicly stated he is opposed to it.

If you look at the Melbourne AFL competition format, 9 inner city clubs clubs play out of the same two grounds in the centre of the city. This is Melbourne. It is centralized, whereas Sydney is decentralized. The NRL has regional based clubs. This is the differnce between the two cities

The new Melbourne team will differentiate itself through some kind of identity eg maybe more generally broad based than Victory in its fan base (don’t know?). This is what I’ve been trying to explain where every market is different and West Sydney won’t necessarily steal many Sydney FC supporters despite what people think.

However, what should not be underestimated is Melbourne’s more ‘centralized’ nature, which has been a success for the AFL. By all reports, the City of Casey in Melbourne’s Southeast will be the training and administration a base, but don’t read too much into that. Every AFL club in Melbourne has its suburban roots, yet these clubs have a relatively broad appeal across the entire city.

This is what the new club is trying to replicate. They’ll be playing at the new bubble stadium, just like Victory.

Which community will they be targeting? I doubt they would go after any specific community, that would risk their ‘broad’ appeal. Melbourne (and Victoria) is a big enough place for two clubs to engage with the community. There are enough clubs to attend training at and enough schools to hold clinics at that both clubs can succesfully share the load. I was actually going to write an article on this up until my credibility on the football tab was shot down.

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blogs/halftimeorange/to-sydney-cc-newcastle-subject-get-ghotbi-163520/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afshin_Ghotbi

So where is the second Melbourne club to be based & which community are they targeting as opposed to the GC which is clearly defined. West Sydney is a no brainer as I stated in a previous post but another Melbourne team,how will it seperate its identity from MV? Sydneys West is ready made for another team(seperate ground historical differentiation with the cities inner suburbs & other suburbs) I dont see it in Melbourne.

Most Tasmanians already love their footy, most already are involved in the game, most already follow teams (even if they would happily forgo their allegiance in favour of a local team) and most importantly, most already watch footy on TV. Meaning: there would be no significant increase to TV viewership of the AFL if a team is in Tasmania, therefore there would be no increase to the TV rights.

(Which is essentially why the AFL are twiddling their thumbs waiting for a Melbourne-based team to be in strife, and then fall back on Tasmania.)

For football, however, there are some similarities with the situation now in North Queensland. There is opportunity to grow at a grassroots level, get more kids playing the game, etc. There is also the opportunity to grow football’s TV audience.

That said, in relation to previous comments, I have to agree that having two teams in the one market (in places like Melbourne and Sydney especially) is important for creating more than a “passing interest”.

So 2nd Melbourne, so long as they target a different kind of audience to Victory (perhaps even go after the “bling” tag, but in a community-minded matter like Gold Coast) and West Sydney are vital. That doesn’t leave much space for Canberra, Wollongong and Tasmania.

I think the AFL needs to grow football as a game. You say that Victoria is seen as the heartland. Well that needs to change. I dont like being asked where in Victoria i am from when i say i follow the AFL. South Australia, Western Australia and Tasmania (interestingly) are all fanatical about aussie rules, yet Victoria is seen as the only place it is big purely because it is a lot bigger there.
Removing Victorian teams will help remove this tag from the game that is holding it back. I think 8 Melbourne teams should be fine. Victorians themselves also have to get with the fact that the AFL is the AUSTRALIAN Football League, NOT the VICTORIAN Football League that they seem to think it still is.
I myself wish that the AFL had started from a all the state leagues contributing teams, but alas history is history and cannot be changed.
By growing geographically i think that the clubs ‘left behind’ in Melbourne will be strengthened as a result and will be able to put more money into growing the game further.

“The HAL MUST crack the Sydney market…………….NSW is the biggest soccer state by a long, long way…………not cracking that nut sufficiently is making the HAL verge on embarrassing (for the Sydney head quartered organisation that is!!!!).”

The words above Why? One man’s finger in SFC’s pie explains the lot. That that person also controls football generally including the A-league has been SFC”s problem. SFC’s lack of independence from Frank Lowy has been its Achilles heel.
Because Frank has been looking at the Football “Big Picture” ie holding World Cups & the like SFC has been ignored .Just find a few old friends make them CEO appoint Kossie coach (a man who made 150 appearances for Sydney City/Hakoah) keep it in the “Club” & hope for the best.
The penny finally now seems to have dropped with the club having new owners.
Lets hope they dont make the same mistake & appoint independent experienced Football people for key positions similar to MV rather than the owners brother -in -law or whatever.
Some football fans still dont get it . No succesful SFC no succesful A-League. By their comments some SFC fans live on hope. Hope aint going to cut it in Sydney. Understanding the market & working hard to meet the demands of that market in terms of the demands of its football following public will. Putting on Young kids with potential may work in other areas of Australia but not Sydney in pulling crowds.
SFC reminds me of the old Goodies -Beans boy ads where a menancing figure kept telling the boy(SFC) “Get it right”
See below.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ydXtCpYimN8

yeah – I was purely single issue superficial re AFL – - but, the 1 game a week live in a major market + 1 game televised into that market – - that is a key.

Whether it’s short term sustainable to establish the long term foothold – - that’s another question.

re AFL tassie – - as Redb says, most folk already have AFL/VFL teams and that market is perhaps too diluted………….potentially………….harder sometimes to ‘convert’ existing ‘followers’ to winning over ‘code virgins’.

That flipside supports a HAL team in Tassie – - I’d agree – instead of NZ, but, keep Melb and Syd 2nd teams as separate to the Tassie issue.

The HAL MUST crack the Sydney market…………….NSW is the biggest soccer state by a long, long way…………not cracking that nut sufficiently is making the HAL verge on embarrassing (for the Sydney head quartered organisation that is!!!!).

KB – I don’t think Sydney is by any means saturated for football support. I think SFC do bugger all in the rip market of the inner west, and also in the Botany to Brighton stretch just south of their normal stomping ground. Even if these were covered I see heaps of logic and room for a club covering the west of the city, and another for the Illawarra (perhaps including Sutherland Shire). Finally I’d love to see Canberra get up to cover the south of the state – not the least of which because the stadium down there is a magic little ground – but I’d like to see them properly linked to the south coast and also to the riverina.