Are Foster and Murray really anti-EPL?
Roar Guru By dasilva, 22 Jan 2009 dasilva is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- A-League, Alex Ferguson, development, Ernie Merrick, football, Gerrard, Manchester United, Sydney FC, winning, youth league
114 Have your say
There is a perception that Craig Foster, Les Murray and the rest of the SBS team are prejudiced against English Football. But I don’t believe that these criticisms are fair.
Craig Foster has never said that every English coach plays long ball football and he has never said that every English club is bad at developing footballers. But it did say that it is the general standard.
People often try to counter his argument by bringing exceptions to the rule and quite often these exceptions are already pointed out by Foster and have been already praised.
When a manager, club or player from England excels, he always praises them. He believes that Terry Venables is the best coach he played with, and you would not see him accusing him of calling him a typical long-ball Manager.
Alex Ferguson is also praised and he is Scottish.
Clubs such as Manchester United, old Tottenham sides, Arsenal, pre-Mourinho Chelsea and Liverpool sides of the past, as well as players like Beckham, Joe Cole, Rooney, Gerrard, Gascoigne, Bobby Chalton and Gordan Banks, are always appliaded by Murray, Foster and others at SBS.
Closer to home, the likes of Ernie Merrick and Eddie Thompson have been complemented in the past, despite having a Scottish background.
Manchester United Youth Development Scheme was singled out for compliments in his ‘The Future is Small Part 1′ article and he has congratulated them in the past for not participating in the English FA youth league, believing it will harm the development of the youths as they are not on small sided fields.
This shows that while criticising the general standards of England’s youth development, he is also willing to complement progressive clubs who are an exception to the rule.
Foster’s main criticism of the general standards of England’s football culture is directed at the lower leagues, due to there being less foreign influence. Therefore his attacks on English football culture are related to the English Championship and below and not the EPL.
Is it wrong to say that the English Championship is lot more direct then most second division leagues in Europe?
The problem is that these anti-English football accusations often obscure genuine, debatable topics: do teams have an obligation to play entertaining football or to just win the match?
SBS believes that playing a brand of football that is entertaining to the neutrals is just as important as winning the match. So let’s debate that instead of worrying about their perceived prejudices.
Recommend this story.
- Explore:
- A-League, Alex Ferguson, development, Ernie Merrick, football, Gerrard, Manchester United, Sydney FC, winning, youth league
January 22nd 2009 @ 3:19pm
Sam said | January 22nd 2009 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
I don’t believe Foster believes that English football suffers at the top tier, but rather at the bottom. The kid that plays on the streets and on the beach in Argentina and Brazil, has more to him than the kid that plays in the backstreets of an English town. I agree with him to a large extent.
But this is a cultural difference. We see the way Australians and Indians play cricket so differently to one another. The thing with the English (and Australians) is that they have to vary their play. Not necessarily lose the strengths they have, but add to them in other areas.
January 22nd 2009 @ 3:24pm
dasilva said | January 22nd 2009 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
Craig ain’t the only person who say they are technically deficient. Fabio Capello caused a mini controversy a year a go when he wanted all the players to work on their technique more often and actually wanted all the EPL teams to do that. However the response was that Fabio was welcome to attend EPL teams training sessions and gives suggestions but he can’t dictate to EPL clubs what they do in training
So is Fabio anti-English?
Towser/PIp
Although I’m not too sure what you mean when you say the English don’t value creativity but yet be technical equals to the rest of the world. If you play in the style that is not reliant on technical ability then how can you develop your technical levels to the same extent when another team plays in the style that is reliant.
January 22nd 2009 @ 3:44pm
Pippinu said | January 22nd 2009 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
das
I think people bandy the word “technique” around to mean a lot of different things.
If we are just talking about technical proficiency with the ball, Zola says straight out that he sees little difference: dribbling, the accuracy of the pass, hitting a target, along the ground or in the air, controlling the ball, protecting the ball, etc.
But if you are talking about doing imaginative things with the ball in the field of play in real time, having the vision to see things others don’t, you need technique to execute, but that’s not just about technique – that’s something else again.
Let’s take a small example. Most professional players have the technical proficiency to emulate a good through ball in terms of hitting the ball so that it goes precisely where intended – but to see the possibility of a particular through ball is another skill or aptitude again.
Equally, most professional players have the technical proficiency to execute dummies, one twos, backheelers and overlapping runs – but do they have the instinct to do this on the field in real time? Or, to go back to Towser’s point, are they encouraged to do this by their managers?
I’m arguing that this is not a weakness of technique or technical proficiency – it’s about other things.
Other people confuse technique with doing party tricks – but at the highest levels of the game – a player might get away with a party trick once every 10 games – for the rest of the time he’s following instructions and doing the team things.
January 22nd 2009 @ 3:46pm
Towser said | January 22nd 2009 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
Its a very interesting subject this & if we just take it on face value I loved to see the style of football Gamba Osaka played .
However can the whole world follow Gamba or Brazil in this respect. Not unless culturally we all become the same. As we know given the values of Latin countries in praising the virtues of “cunning football” over “honest up front but at times naive football” cunning can win as in our elimination by Italy from the last World Cup.
Can you overide your gut/cultural feelings in Football depending on your heritage. In my opinion bloody hard, but maybe in new countries like this its possible.
Let me give you an example when I was coaching Aussie kids. Freed of the shackles of ‘Thi legs mine ” football in Australia I took the oppurtunity to emphasise the ball skills I knew from my street football. But the culture of my adult mind as far as football went also meant that i maybe placed an over emphasis on hard tackling/winning the ball.
Now this is the conundrum I believe their is a major place for “hard “play in football. Hard as opposed to dirty. But can you effectively combine the two hard & technical as Gamba played.
My thoughts are that this style of football would be ideal. Nobby Styles meets Robinho. But can it ever happen,because the Robinho type player is very different from the Nobby type player. Make no mistake Nobby was skilful but he chose to express his ball skills differently than Robinho on the park. Also in certain nations the whole culture is geared towards either the Nobby or Robinho character.
This is also where the dynam techni-duo fall down they overlook culture & differing human personalities in Football players.
The 2 lads I mentioned earlier were gifted ball players ,but they lacked the steel to take hard knocks on the Football field something some of the young Roar players were lacking against a physical Adelaide side in the last game of last season.
This year they have matured toughened up & Minniecon ,Zullo,Nichols are holding their own in the physicality stakes.
My hope for Aussie Football is that we can produce Nobby/Robinho players from the Dutch coaching influence. My observation of Australian players over many years is that the vast majority if they reach adult football,do not shirk the physical side of the game.
Give them the “Street Skills” & watch out for “Nobbinho”. How will Fossie handle him.
January 22nd 2009 @ 4:00pm
Sam said | January 22nd 2009 @ 4:00pm | Report comment
Pip
“Equally, most professional players have the technical proficiency to execute dummies, one twos, backheelers and overlapping runs – but do they have the instinct to do this on the field in real time? Or, to go back to Towser’s point, are they encouraged to do this by their managers?”
But if you have a Maradona, Zidane, Kaka, Ronaldo etc in your team, then yes Pip the managers will encourage them to do this. It is the difference between scoring that vital goal and failing. Imagine Australia had such a player in that World Cup quarter final against the Italians…
January 22nd 2009 @ 4:02pm
dasilva said | January 22nd 2009 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
Pip
I guess that’s in the basket of decision making, vision/creativity and tactical awareness.
I’m starting to see your point. I have read about how English players that do have the ability to dribble or pass the ball are never encourage to do so. Although they are willing to express it in training sessions and while having fun. In the match during a pressure situation they are too afraid to use it as they may make a mistake, lose possession etc. Therefore they never develop the vision and decision making to make use of their technique and skills.
I think that’s due that people are playing competitive matches at a younger age and we have youth coaches playing to win rather then developing players that caused this situation to occur.
Although I don’t think that particular helps your technique as well but I can see perhaps what you mention that the decision making side of the game is probably the bigger concern then technique itself.
January 22nd 2009 @ 4:21pm
Pippinu said | January 22nd 2009 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
Sam
of course – but perhaps in some countries a player like that did exist at the age of 10, but was no longer at the age of 20?
Here’s an interesting question for you. Germany/West Germany has been a very successfull footballing nation over the last 45 years or so. Do you find players like the four you mentioned in a white shirt? Would anyone ever dare accuse the Germans of having poor technique? (I would hope not, anything but)
That pretty much underscores what I am saying I reckon.
Perhaps ultimately there’s more than one way to skin a cat? And surely that’s a good thing?
January 22nd 2009 @ 4:29pm
Slippery Jim said | January 22nd 2009 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
One of the best posts I have ever seen from you Pippu – seriously! You have explained it very well, along the lines Towser mentioned from his first hand perspective.
January 22nd 2009 @ 4:30pm
Sam said | January 22nd 2009 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
Pip
Of course there is more than one way to skin a cat. But remember the Germans have a certain mentality that is lacking in the English. I believe the Aussies have a strong mentality though similar to the Germans. Still, you are maybe underrating the Germans technique and skill in producing players such as Beckenbauer, Matthaus, Ballack etc.
But in Australia’s case we should put our emphasis on English heart, German mentality and Dutch technique. I believe having only one of these qualities will not suffice. Tell me why someone like Matthew Le Tissier was not ever given a free role in the English team to cause havoc against international teams? Not their style of player I would guess..
January 22nd 2009 @ 4:31pm
Towser said | January 22nd 2009 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
Pippinu
Yes there were players like that at the age of 10 in England.
This guy was one of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Quixall
But at 20 he had played 5 times for England & after that not the sort of player that fitted into the English football cultural mould. This guy despite coming through the hard knocks school of Sheffield football was “gifted” with sublime ball control skills,a magician with the ball at his feet. But in the culture of English Football particularly of the day we never saw the best of “Ar Albert” If he was a Latin he could have been Di Stefano.