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The Crowd Says (30) | Page 1 of Comments

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  dasilva said | February 3rd 2009 @ 6:38am | Report comment

  I’m not too sure I like them editing out a whole paragraph about why results aren’t everything

  “Now you could say that winning matches will do its job. That winning matches brings in the crowds as everyone loves a winner. That’s true but how permanent is that though? These people who only watch winners are people who jump on the bandwagon. When the team doesn’t win they’ll leave. Also as we know in the A-league with the salary cap that winning is never a permanent thing with every club have missed the finals before. To rely on results for crowds is such a risky thing for such an evenly balance league. However, style of play with the right coach can be permanent and doesn’t fluctuate as much like results. ”

  I’ll also add that I believe entertainment and results to be equally important for good crowd.

  Other points also include “After all the reason why the major European clubs manage to create legions of loyal of fans around the world is because the way they play football and that it is entertaining to watch them play. It’s certainly not because they are supporting their local clubs (excluding family ties of migrants). ”

  I just say from personal experience I enjoy a lot of grinding gritty performances from Adelaide and the Socceroos this year like the victory over Bahrain and Adelaide ACL adventures and their nil nil draw away from home to qualify to the quarter finals. However I enjoy them because I’m a fan of the club. However people who aren’t a-league supporters may not enjoy it and I believe that should always be in the back of our minds when judging a match. Although we can expect that with every league there will be matches that will be scrappy and also we expect that technically it won’t be the same level of play. We do hope that the scrappy match becomes more of an exception not the rule and I hope that irrespective of the standard of play being seen the contest is still absorbing, played with attacking intent (and hopefully not so much error ridden).

  I guess I’m thinking that after reading fragglerocker and how he may become a football fan after watching queensland and perth play. We want that scenario happening more often in the A-league

  Hopefully I done a better job then Craig Foster in explaining why style is as important as results (did I offend anyone?)

  Reply

• Koala Bear said | February 3rd 2009 @ 7:42am | Report comment

  Das,
  I have always struggled with the argument of style vs results… I like to have my cake and eat it too .. But in saying that, after watching the recent match, Indonesia vs Australian Roos (replay) .. I felt the same way Francis Awaritefe felt and pleased that this team did not let themselves nor the nation down ..

  I was captivated as the teams struggled against the oppressive conditions on a disgraceful pitch to get a result.. Francis on TWG explained his thoughts of the event … Craig Foster was the opposite.. (I could not agree with Foster on this occasion) As he wanted to choose an Olyroo side to represent Australia in the most prestigious event in the Asean Football region ..

  That would have been a slap in the face to the HAL lads, the shirt, and Asian Football in general.. We should always select the best possible team to represent Australia .. In this case it happened to be the HAL lads.. Regardless of the style or the result … I was pleased under the circumstances, the team that was chosen did the job … In their best possible style and got the result that we wanted ….

  ~~~~~~~~
  KB

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  Kazama said | February 3rd 2009 @ 7:44am | Report comment

  It’s an interesting conundrum facing A-League teams – do they try to keep the fans they have happy by placing the win above any semblance of style, or is it more important to play attractively and try to win new fans?

  IMO Perth have played the most enterprising football this season, yet they failed to make the finals and their crowds are continually poor. Sure, they may have won over neutrals like fragglerocker, but how many people are going to go out and buy a season ticket next season based on what they saw? If we see a big upturn in numbers at Glory games next year, then that would add some serious weight behind the argument for the importance of playing with flair. If Perth continue to struggle with attendances, then you’d have to say winning is more important for getting fans on board.

  Personally, I hope it is the former. However, if given a choice, which would you prefer – a title winning season on the back of many gritty 1-0 wins, or a mid-table finish but plenty of goals and excitement along the way? This is they way many coaches in the league probably feel at the moment. But, do style and winning have to two be different entities? The Gold Coast franchise may give us an answer next season.

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  dasilva said | February 3rd 2009 @ 7:54am | Report comment

  First thing – socceroos is well establish in the national psyche that they can get away with gritty victories without damaging the brand too much

  The rest

  Perth has only really been enterprising towards the end of the seasons and their crowds picked up because of that. In the beginning they weren’t very attracting at all.

  queensland in the first two seasons missed out the final and had trouble winning at home under bleiberg but they still had consistently high crowds due to enterprising football

  Sydney FC is the key example – finals finish in first 3 years. However despite that crowds went backwards due to style of play by the likes of Terry Butcher.

  title winning season on the back of many gritty 1-0 wins, or a mid-table finish but plenty of goals and excitement along the way?

  As a fan of adelaide of course I want the gritty 1-0 win. However my point is that the clubs themselves shouldn’t think about just pleasing the establish fans and try to broaden their market then just try to impress me and other adelaide fans and try to win more fans.

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• Whiskeymac said | February 3rd 2009 @ 8:03am | Report comment

  Supporting Arsenal for 18 years – from Grahams’ onenil-ers to Arsene’s invincibles – and now 4th placed strugglers – has given me the opportunity to experience both. and i prefer Arsene’s way. i would rather support a club playing, and being known for, great football than one grinding out boring results. we will eventually get the results again, and we will do it in style. keegan’s Newcastle team in 1995-6 season was more memorable for me than Man Utd’s (and not just for the implosion but for Asprilla et al)

  I would also support Brazil over Italy, Holland over Germany for the same reasons. and i am guessing alot of newcomers to the sport would prefer to watch those teams too. To simplify, people want to see skill not necessarily burly athleticism.

  Conversely, I support the Mariners too, but with Caceres (and hopefully Gillespie) in the team I feel more comfortable in admitting this now.

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• Luke W said | February 3rd 2009 @ 8:04am | Report comment

  Like Koala Bear I have never understood the concept of style vs. results. Can someone please show me a team that plays with style but doesn’t get results? I think the argument only kicks in when a team has been in a poor run of form and there is a pressure on the manager to get results. With the pressure to achieve a result, he is less likely to take risks and play with style to press for goals.

  Results and style are not opposites. Good results leads to style because a team is playing with confidence and lack of pressure. Look at Melbourne Victory and Queensland Roar this season. A few weeks out from the finals they grinded out the results to ensure they made the top 4, but once they did they turned on the style (highlighted by the Roar vs. Glory match last weekend). Alternatively, the Jets attempted to play with the same short passing stylish game that took them too the Premiership last season. But results didn’t go their way early, pressure mounted on van Egmond and they started playing with a more negative formation with two holding midfielders.

  So in answer to the question: results are more important. When a team is getting the results, the style will inevitably come.

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• Whiskeymac said | February 3rd 2009 @ 8:30am | Report comment

  I feel i shld clarify this pre coffee comment….

  Italy and Germany are not “burly athleticism” and do possess great tactical awareness, skill etc but they arent necessarily entertaining for neutrals to watch.

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• Towser said | February 3rd 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment

  Quite a simple answer for me. As a lifetime football fan when I go to a match I feel the game rather than analyse it as per Fossie. So being a Roar fan it is easy to answer your article dasilva. Let me add that this answer relates to both the dyed in the wool fan like me & a neutral whatever their background be that Overseas league or other sport.
  The words style or result are in reality for A-League matches(or any weekly competition)nowhere near as relevant as whether the match was absorbing(As opposed to WC/AC qualifying where results are paramount)That is your on the edge oy your seat from start to finish. To be absorbing that can involve pace & intensity(Roar v Perth) or high technical play or in my opinion preferably a combination of both. Either way absorbing is the key word for week to week competitions. One off & Round Robin competitions bring with them a different set of values that hold your attention regardless of the entertainement value of the match. Eg the indonesia vs Australia match the other day. I watch this very differently from a Roar match.
  Given the newness of the A-League a comp trying to turn first & foremost Eurosnobs into “Aussie Club” fans we have to have more of the absorbing & less of the insipid as noted by this article & a post on the Brisbane Times blog yesterday.
  Srcroll down to the 7th post & you will see comments from a recently arrived migrant from the UK,which in my opinion answers quite clearly what I have been saying.

  http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/themagicspray/archives/2009/02/roars_destiny_i.html

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  Pippinu said | February 3rd 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment

  You can’t compare watching a game in which your team is playing, to a game in which your team is not – it’s chalk and cheese in terms of your focus, your emotional response and your engagement.

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• Vicentin said | February 3rd 2009 @ 10:39am | Report comment

  Towser and Pippinu – interesting comments and agree with most. I am a lifelong fan of the game and while I’ll admit that in some circumstances I really don’t care how my team plays as long as we win – like in a final, I have to admit that I’m constantly critically analysing the way my team plays. This can sometimes bring some joy even when the result doesn’t go my team’s way and leave me with an empty feeling if my team wins but plays crap.

  My son bags me for it a bit for this but I realise that my allegiances have been changing as I get older and as a I obsess about the style in which a team plays. This is because I’m more obsessed about the development of good footballers than specific football teams these days. Teams that for years I would hate with a passion eg Man U I can now enjoy watching because they generally play great football. Same with Arsenal. Conversely a team like Liverpool which years ago I liked I now can’t stand.

  But of course you have to remember that in recent years I’ve “supported” a team that has been managed by Terry Butcher and John Kosmina and frustration and anger have been overwhelmingly the most felt emotions.

  Das, you’re back on form. Much better article than some of your recent (needless) baiting of Jesse Fink and SBS/Foster IMO.

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