What’s more important: style or results?
Roar Guru By dasilva, 3 Feb 2009 dasilva is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- FINA, football, Liverpool, Manchester United, salary cap, Socceroos
Related coverage
It’s a constant debate in football whether the way you play is as important as whether you win or not. Should the style of play matter be entertaining for the neutrals or does the end justify the means?
A lot of time you will hear from fans, “I just want my team to win and I don’t care how.”
That is a legitimate position to have.
However, from an Australian prospective we have to realise that the A-League isn’t part of our national consciousness and not as well supported when compared to other major leagues in the world. We also want to increase the amount of fans watching the A-League, especially when the crowds have dropped this year.
It’s okay to say that style doesn’t matter and that clubs are just obligated to please the fans of the club and no one else when you are supporting a large club with many fans with an international presence like a Celtic, Rangers, Chelsea, Manchester United or Liverpool.
However, I argue that for the A-League, the “style doesn’t matter attitude” is counterproductive.
When new viewers first watch the A-league, they are watching it from a prospective of a neutral, especially the Eurosnobs. Entertainment is what a neutral wants from watching a match. We want to turn those neutrals into a fan of a particular club. I believe that the style of play is the most important way of doing that.
We could say that these people who expect entertainment don’t really understand what it’s like to be a true fan of football. And there is certainly some truth to that statement.
However, can we afford to be up in our moral high ground and look down on people we want to convert? It’s the FFA responsibility to attract fans, not the other way around.
If neutrals leave the match after being thoroughly entertained, irrespective of the result, they may come back. If they aren’t, then they switch the channel and watch the EPL or another sport.
Recommend this story.
- Explore:
- FINA, football, Liverpool, Manchester United, salary cap, Socceroos
February 3rd 2009 @ 10:58am
Pippinu said | February 3rd 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Vicentin
just to continue on from what you’ve said, as a neutral, one can see immediately just how more attractive an Arsenal is compared to its main rivals (although that statement probably applied more to last season than this season, the loss of a couple of midfielders has been telling this season) – and so it’s easier to enjoy watching Arsenal regardless of whether they win or lose (as a neutral that is).
Of course if you’re a fan of, say, Hull City – you are going to go absolutely beserk if you manage to get the 3 points over the Gunners – regardless of how the goals went in!
In the Australian context, for the average fan it is sometimes a case of avoiding the trap of having a champagne taste, and a beer income.
Talking personally, as an MV fan, I think our last two games were quite ordinary. Against CCM, we didn’t get going until Carlos came on around the 60th, and in the last game against the Nix, we never really got it together at all (but I think the Nix can take some credit for that as well). Nevertheless, we got 6 points, scored 5 goals and conceded none, and claimed the Premiership in what was a pressure cooker situation – as a fan, you just have to accept that it’s a wonderful achievement even if the play was ordinary at times. I don’t really have time for MV fans who whinge even when their team is on top – that’s a luxury for Real and Barca fans.
Put it this way – I’m not about to write letters to management demanding that they return the silverware!
February 3rd 2009 @ 11:09am
Michael C said | February 3rd 2009 @ 11:09am | Report comment
Ernie Merrick spoke this morning on SEN, about how they try to keep mindful of the need to ‘entertain’, and reckon they have the best crowd in the HAL (certainly by numbers) – - – that may be a reflection of the more entertaining style.
He also stressed that it often means less drawn matches. Thus, MVFC suffered 3 straight losses mid year – - but, held firm and finished on top.
ON that front though, he stressed the importance of the support of the club. In the light of Kossie being sacked (SFC, a shocking trail of ‘ex-coaches’ and ‘ex-CEOs’), he stressed that the stability at the helm of MVFC of Cole, Miles, Lord and Muscat has been super important.
Perhaps only a settle club can define itself with assurance – - – and then be unified in pursuing a playing style that may be more appealling.
Anyway – I’m not in a position to make judgements – but, given I was in the car mid-late morning listening after dropping kids off for their first day of school – I figure not many others would’ve heard the interview.
(also, interesting to hear Merrick, in the light of Kossie and SFC indicating that that’s a bit of a ‘soccer culture’, and on that basis, he reckons he’s super lucky to have survived season 1. Anyway, he often used ‘soccer’, whilst Kevin Bartlett was talking about the ‘style of football’ and ‘attacking football’.)
February 3rd 2009 @ 12:10pm
dasilva said | February 3rd 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
Pip
“You can’t compare watching a game in which your team is playing, to a game in which your team is not – it’s chalk and cheese in terms of your focus, your emotional response and your engagement.”
Yeah I’m clearly aware of the distinction of the difference
My point is that all newcomers to the league are neutrals even if their home town is playing. I brought fellow Adelaidians to an A-league match. They were european football watchers. They watch and analyse the match as neutrals. Even if Adelaide won that match they couldn’t care less, they just want entertainment and enjoy the match as a spectacle itself.
These are the large untapped market of the a-league that we want to get. That’s why it’s clubs and coaches responsibility to take into consideration neutrals when they make their decisions.
February 3rd 2009 @ 12:12pm
Millster said | February 3rd 2009 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
SImple logic. If you have 2 dimensions – Style and Results – this gives you 4 options or combinations of those dimensions. Can I suggest that most people – including myself – would preference in the following order (I’m making the assumption here that we’re talking a team that a person supports – not a neutral situation).
#1 – Style and Results
#2 – No Style but Results
#3 – Style but no Results
#4 – No Style, No Results
So if I’m right most people have Results at preferences 1 and 2, and Style at preferences 1 and 3. This shows a regard for both but a preference for Results if one or the other has to be sacrificed. I would say this is also the preferred order for clubs themselves in terms of their performance aspirations. Neutrals might switch #2 and #3, perhaps, depending on whether their taste is to see a result or whether they would revel in a beautiful game even if it ended in a nil-all.
Anyway to me it’s not just an either-or. One can navigate among these 4 possible combinations in pondering an answer.
February 3rd 2009 @ 12:16pm
dasilva said | February 3rd 2009 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
Towser
I agree
Perhaps i should have used absorbing contest rather then style. Although I like to think that style has a large impact on whether the contest is absorbing.
yeah I actually bought into your line of thinking (in the past I have argued with you about entertainment in international matches involving australia) about how results is far more paramount for the Socceroos (although you still can’t completely disregard style and entertainment. Socceroos are now well establish in the national psyche. Most sporting people in Australia are fans. We don’t really need to convert anyone to the game of football. Therefore the prioritising of results is far greater for socceroos then for club football.
February 3rd 2009 @ 12:20pm
dasilva said | February 3rd 2009 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
yep millster
I always believe that results and style do not counter each other.
I honestly believe that every club in the australia should have a long term goal (I do recognise that it will take time) of #1 and not be sastisfied until that has been reached.
February 3rd 2009 @ 1:15pm
Pippinu said | February 3rd 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Interestingly, Michael C’s post almost introduces a a 3rd dimension (using Millster’s logic) – let’s call it strikepower: MV and CCM had it this year, the Roar discovered it in the 2nd half of the season, and AU do not have it, full stop (in fact, Kaz has done a piece on it this very day). This is a different dimension to results, because teams can focus on scoring goals, do so with not necessarily a lot of style and not neccessarily get the result.
Whenever CCM went into games with Macallister, Simon and Petrovski starting up front, well, we all know they didn’t have a short, sharp, passing game in mind! It will be interesting how some of the Asian clubs cope with this in the ACL.
There’s plenty of truth to what Ernie is saying – MV went for the win this season in every game – ultimately that’s why they finished top – they lost more games than some of its rivals, but they one one more game than AU, and they scored more goals than AU, and that’s why they won the Premiership.
At times this season, AU played a precision passing game with plenty of tactical discipline, got sufficient results to finish 2nd, but lacked the firepower to finish above MV.
Conversely, MV’s performances in terms of style and attractiveness were quite mixed – but they consistently set out to score goals – they always went out with an attacking line up – often with three strikers. They lost games as a consequence, but they racked up sufficient 3 pointers to win the premiership.
Their next two games against AU will be intriguing. AU do not possess the firepower that MV has, nowhere near it, but they have shown plenty of tactical nous this season in both the ACL and the A-League and they have valued possession far more than MV (who in my view give the ball away a little too cheaply for my liking).
Ernie says they will go for the win in the away leg (unlike two years ago when they got the nil-all draw they aimed to get), and all indications from this season are that he will be true to his word.
No guts, no glory.
February 3rd 2009 @ 1:24pm
Towser said | February 3rd 2009 @ 1:24pm | Report comment
Looking at this purely from a fans view, the ones who really care about whether their local club is being guided towards “Absorbing” contests with other teams,its up to you to complain ,whinge ,protest if your club is not giving you this.
This happened at the Roar earlier in the season & I like to think that management took note & Roar fans have seen the turnaround since then. Let me note that this is far easier to acheive in many senses in a fledgling club than in older more traditional clubs like Sheffield Wednesday where because of tradition & family following fans begin to accept what I call the constant ‘Tapping small hammer on the head”. Each match is always slightly painful so that it becomes a blur from one game to the next. Even if the small hammer becomes a full fairground sledge hammer occassionally it doesnt matter. Little pain Big pain its all pain.
But so what my Dad,Grandad & Great Grandad followed em ‘Up the Owls”.
Stability,a blueprint for who you are, is needed for any club throughout the world but particularly for clubs in new competitions who need to gather fans in order to become a reputable professional football team. This stability & blueprint are provided to you the fan by administrative ,coaching & playing staff.
As far as the A-league goes one only needs to look at where SFC & MV are 4 years on to confirm the benefits of this fact.
Make no mistake football fans in Australia can shape the destiny of the A-League its still able to be moulded unlike European football. Just dont accept crap like the Roar put on in the first half of this season.
February 3rd 2009 @ 2:21pm
Midfielder said | February 3rd 2009 @ 2:21pm | Report comment
Just adding my two cents worth who are the style police … who is to say a 40 meter pass to a hard running player is less skillful than a short pin point 3 meter pass.
Seems to me sometimes when something like the ball from the fulback to striker or long ball is being over played its boreing and easy to defend … but then at what point can such a pass be made without some saying this match is shit … never, once, twice or maybe when the player with the ball thinks its his best option… further short three meter passing is also boreing if done all match …
It is very easy to be critical but TBH I think we are just going way over the top with this constant style stuff .. its getting better everyone is working on it … budgets are small …
Recent example I can give Becks in the last match Milian played set up their first two goals … Milan fans and coach want to keep him … both passes off long balls … if you get my point who is the style judge and what is style … Or more what is grinding … would Arsenell with 15 mins to go and 1 nill up against Man U play a open attacking style.
Seems to me while I am the first to push the importance of style I also accept that style is not all one sided and BTW the two leagues with the biggest crowds are England & Germany .. go figure that … so if the games are close and not skill less then it’s important … if anything it is the coaches who will determine how things are done and that will always be to win especially with ACL places for the winners.
February 3rd 2009 @ 2:44pm
Pippinu said | February 3rd 2009 @ 2:44pm | Report comment
Mid
I hope you don’t think that me referring to CCM’s strikepower was a slight in any way?!
For the record, I personally believe that the only bad ball is one that misses its mark – and I have often argued a similar point to the one you have made – if a 60 metre ball sets up a goal – that’s a pretty good ball in my book!.
Also, I too don’t have too much time for the style police.
As I said, I reckon more than one Asian club will struggle to contain a threesome of Macallister, Simon and Petrovski/Mrdja.
Going back to the original question of this thread – yeh – way too simplistic. While mentioning how AU was played this year, I got thinking about the nous they showed at times against better credentialled Asian teams, and I was almost going to write about a fourth dimension! (but thankfully I stopped myself)