ARU chief eyes Super expansion in 2011
By Samantha Broun, 4 Feb 2009 Samantha Broun is a Roar Rookie
Australian Rugby Union boss John O’Neill says he expects the Super rugby competition to expand to 15 teams in 2011.
O’Neill said talks have recommenced between the SANZAR working party after a breakdown in discussions late last year over a proposed six-team finals series.
The ARU chief indicated that a Super 15 competition running from the March 1 until early August in 2011 would involve an extra team from either Japan or the Pacific Islands and would incorporate six teams in the finals.
In the proposed expanded format, teams would play each other once in a round-robin competition before teams from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa would play teams from their own country again.
“We’ve renewed the work of the SANZAR working party so we sort of took time out coming into Christmas and back in discussions, it’s not CEO level, it’s the next level down,” O’Neill said, adding that all decisions by SANZAR must be unanimous.
“It’s taking on all of the work that was done last year and in a sense getting it back on track.
“We’re officially back on the normal timetable, we had been trying to accelerate it, (but) under our existing broadcast deal we have to have a proposal to our broadcasters by the 30th of June this year of whatever we think is a reasonable proposal to commence on January 1, 2011.
“So the metre is ticking, dialogue is good, we’re all open to the same ideas that we were talking about last year, but I guess we’re not immune at all to the reality of the economic climate.”
O’Neill said it thought it was highly unlikely that there would be any changes to the Super rugby format before 2011 and there would be no change unless broadcasters came to the table.
“There’s a range of options (being discussed), the one in favour at the moment is a Super 15 competition, going from March 1 to the beginning of August, everyone playing each other once and then each of the teams playing in their conferences.
“That gets you to 23 or 24 weeks and that’s still a very attractive offer as long as we are rewarded for it.
“People ask me what are broadcasters thinking, we actually don’t know yet. We know they have an appetite for Super rugby and we know they have an appetite for expansion but the big unknown is what will they pay.
“We won’t know that until we give them a proposal.”
O’Neill said the ARU’s current broadcast deal expires at the end 2010.
O’Neill said while he hoped the expansion would be approved, he said nothing was definite until approved by SANZAR.
“I think everyone still has a black ball that they can throw in there, O’Neill said.
“The ARU’s preference is for expansion in a way that’s fiscally responsible, but then again if nothing changes then we have to wait another five years to have a crack at it.”
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February 4th 2009 @ 10:00am
Rah Rah Rasputin said | February 4th 2009 @ 10:00am | Report comment
I agree with Dan that a second team in NSW (and QLD for that matter) would be problematic given the one town/ one team basis of the Australian franchises.
This is not to say that Western Sydney, regional NSW or the Gold Coast should be ignored as potential markets. If as JON suggested in this morning that a Super 15 woud run for 23 or 24 weeks, that would mean approx 12 or 13 home games per side. This would allow NSW and Qld in particular to take a number of games on the road, not just the occasional trial or games against a touring side. NSW could take two games to the Central Coast/ Newcastle and two games to Western Sydney and still have 7 or 8 games leftover for the Blazer brigade at the SFS. Qld could do the same with Townsville and the Gold Coast. The Brumbies have developed a strong relationship with the VRU and could take a number of games to Melbourne.
Eventually I think Melbourne should and will get a team. At the current time I don’t think Australia has a large enough player base and probably won’t for another 5-10 years. This will become even more evident if or when the Super 14 expands to a longer season which will require teams to have far greater depth in their squads. Until then I say, why not Japan?
February 4th 2009 @ 10:41am
Westy said | February 4th 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
True Tah you know my thoughts on this only to well. I support your sentiments.I to will go to the game at Homebush.JON makes clear Australian rugby is not in trouble. I have been called disloyal to rugby by harping on about its deficiencies. This is often simplty because the cause of rugby west of Strathfield is not consistently articulated at management levels. Attention is piecemeal and often a patronising afterthought. . It also because one gets a little dismal about it. JON will get his expansion but just as the current well made advertisements say 3 nations 14 teams JON would like 4 nations and 15 teams and indeed 5 nations and 16 teams before any thoughtof an Australian franchise and only then to Melbourne. JON I think has in conversation some sympathetic sentiment towards western Sydney but he rolled before and his main task is to provide financial security.
JON has come to the realisation that the future of Australian rugby is in an elite international provincial competition.I think I could cope with this if at a regional level ie Western Sydney /Newcastle/NSW country consistent long term effort was made to provide rugby infrastructure and coaching. No district club can provide the quality of coaching available at most of our rugby private schools. This is not an attack on those schools. Rugby is one of the only sports in Australia that targets its better coaching and development of technical skills in some schoolsrather than at a district level.This has atendency towards exclusion. Despite such private schools offering excellent football/cricket/ coaching etc. a young man can get as good if not better coaching at the distict level. The lack of quality coaching in Western sydney is a killer. Time and again I have seen reasonable Western Sydneyjunior rugby teams simply falter because of a lack of technical skill or take up the better(more superior coaching)in junior rep league. I would estimate there are probably 14 to 18 Samoan and tongan boys whose first game is rugby in a squad of 25 in Parramatta rugby league’s U/16 and U/18 rep sides.
If this is disloyalty so be it. If we pursue expansion outside Western Sydney Super franchise it is imperative the ARU develop a targeted 10 year fully funded development strategy in western sydney. I will tell you one thing the Waratah’s heart is not in it and the NSW community rugby Board just does not have the resouces. The split in the NSW Boards will only highlight this. Dan the Waratahs brand is a fading light out here. Vaguely aware would be apt.
Western sydney needs a rugby team so it can fight the good fight on the field so it can show on the sporting field it can and does produce players of skill so it can wallow either in self pity in defeat or shove it up the rest of sydney’s nose in victory,. Be under no illusion the Waratahs do not offer this identity to this region and thet do not want to.
February 4th 2009 @ 10:42am
Rah Rah Rasputin said | February 4th 2009 @ 10:42am | Report comment
Redb,
Yes, it is hard to ignore the current global economic crisis.
The question remains however, is there a market? If the numbers simply don’t add up then SANZAR should hold off on expansion. It should not be forgotten these plans are looking at 2011 and beyond.
If expansion remains on the agenda despite the economic crisis, I would of thought it is obvious that Japan would have far greater capacity to support a super rugby franchise then say Melbourne or Western Sydney.
Japan has an population of approx 127 million – Tokyo alone has a population of 12 million – as well as an established if somewhat underdeveloped rugby culure and, if reports are to be believed, clubs willingly to pay Benji Marshall $1 million for half a season.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a talk then…..
February 4th 2009 @ 10:58am
Brett McKay said | February 4th 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
another take on the same story, this one from The Australian, and doesn’t come across as overly positive..
Super series expansion on hold as broadcasters eye touch
Bret Harris | February 04, 2009
Article from: The Australian
ARU chief executive John O’Neill believes it is highly unlikely the Super 14 series will expand next year and will give no guarantee the competition will increase in size when the new broadcast agreement with News Limited is renegotiated for the 2011 season.
The ARU and its SANZAR partners in South Africa and New Zealand support the idea of expansion in principle because it is expected to be a driving force in the growth of the game.
SANZAR had hoped to fast-track expansion next year, but the three partners could not agree on an increased finals format and discussions “went off the rails”.
Under the existing deal, SANZAR has to deliver its 2011 proposal, likely to include a 15th team from Japan or the Pacific islands and an expanded finals format, to broadcasters by June 30. But O’Neill admitted there was uncertainty about what broadcasters would be prepared to pay for an expanded Super rugby series in the current economic climate and that could scuttle the plan.
“The meter is ticking. Dialogue is good. We are all open to the same ideas that we were talking about last year, but I guess we are not immune at all from the reality of the economic climate,” O’Neill said.
“People ask me what are broadcasters thinking? We actually don’t know yet.
“We know they have an appetite for Super rugby and we know they have an appetite for expansion. The big unknown is what will they pay. We won’t know that until we give them our proposal.”
Asked whether it was guaranteed the Super series would expand in 2011, O’Neill said: “No. Everyone still has a black ball they can throw in and veto it.
February 4th 2009 @ 11:00am
Roger said | February 4th 2009 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Yep, JON definitely mentioned having a team based Parramatta to the media http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/oneill-commits-aru-to-super-expansion/2009/02/03/1233423221984.html
February 4th 2009 @ 11:24am
Jerry said | February 4th 2009 @ 11:24am | Report comment
Yet another O’Neill idea revolves around NZ and SA sacrificing their existing provincial competitions so the ARU can have a longer domestic season.
February 4th 2009 @ 11:37am
ohtani's jacket said | February 4th 2009 @ 11:37am | Report comment
Why would you expand something if there’s no demand?
February 4th 2009 @ 11:53am
Redb said | February 4th 2009 @ 11:53am | Report comment
Rah Rah,
Fair enough. I think the travel costs might be a tad lower with a Melbourne franchise. Dont underestimate the strain of travel costs on sporting competitions in the coming years as far as sustainability is concerned. However, I agree as another posted above, if the TV money justifies it then you have to run with it i suppose.
Whilst I would love to have a Melbourne Super 14 team I accept that perhaps rugby can survive wtih its international footprint without having a national footprint in Australia alone.
Still, we’ve built this noice new rectangular stadium and all…
Redb
February 4th 2009 @ 12:01pm
Cros said | February 4th 2009 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
Westy, wish we had more like you !
However reckon JON is on track. Unfortunately it comes down to money, and he is just looking to improve the balance sheets. Be in a better position to grow the game and take on the other codes, and hopefully spread the good word.
Without this kind of momentum, nothing will be achieved.
Question of what comes first.
February 4th 2009 @ 12:02pm
True Tah said | February 4th 2009 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Rah Rah,
the sporting market of Japan is somewhat smaller than the 127m pop (largely aging) you quoted, and to be frank, rugby has only got a very small fraction of it, with baseball and football swallowing most of it. If Japanese companies would to go bankrupt paying an injury-prone albeit brilliant player from another code so be it – just dont drag down the ARU with it.
Giving the Japs a franchise at the expense of the areas Ive mentioned would be one of the worst decisions ever, and they would regret it big time in the future.
Jerry
I get the feeling that the SARU are ultimately going to tell the ARU/NZRU to get stuffed – they have a strong domestic comp with a massive pay TV deal and may well decide to focus on that, maybe eveb look at setting up teams in Namibia and Zimbabwe (once Mugabe is gone)- ultimately it will force Aust and NZ to develop a trans-tasman comp.