Verbeek wants to control all parts of the Socceroos’ play
Roar Pro By Con Stamocostas, 14 Feb 2009 Con Stamocostas is a Roar Pro
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- football, Pim Verbeek, Socceroos, Tim Cahill
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Kossie’s favourite philosopher is Friedrich Nietzsche. So I was surprised he didn’t use the phrase “whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” after he got sacked from Sydney FC
It’s one of Kossie’s favourite phrases to use during the tough times he has faced during his coaching career.
The reason I bring up Nietzsche is because in football you get a lot of talk about styles, and the recent Socceroos’ performances, and watching Argentina-France, Brazil-Italy and Spain-England, has got me thinking.
When it comes to football, I am a romantic. The romantics in their day worshiped liberty, power, love, violence, imagination and irrationality. Basically, anything that aroused an emotional response.
Like the romantics, I want my football unbounded, wild and ever-changing, sublime and powerful.
You see Nietzsche had this whole concept called ‘the will to power as art’. Nietzsche used the Ancient Greek gods, Apollo – the god of the Sun, lightness, music, and poetry – and Dionysus – the god of wine, ecstasy, and intoxication – to explain his theory.
Stay with me here, this is no philosophy lecture.
Take the Dionysian acts (emotional hedonistic, sensual, unrestrained, irrational). Does it remind you of the way Brazil, Argentina and Spain play football sometimes?
Take the Apollonian values (form creating, representational, orderly, self-control and rational). Does it remind you of how Italy, Germany, England play, and the style that Fabio Capello coaches?
My point is that these two relationships are juxtapositions, and they have a role in the way football is played these days. Both the artistic impulses of these concepts form the dramatic arts and tragedies that take place on the football field.
Robinho stepping over to beat four Italian defenders, Messi and Tevez destroying the French team, and the Spanish team continuing on with their good form from Euro2008 is more Dionysian than Apollonian.
Australia playing with Tim Cahill up front and using Grella Valeri and Culina to shield the back four is more Apollonian than Dionysian.
I would say Pim Verbeek is from the Apollonian school of thought: the wish to create order, clarity, stick to formed boundaries.
You see this theory in movies and books played over again and again.
The main protagonist struggles to make order in his/her life. He/she has adventures that show them how it’s done and they change for the better in the end.
The Greeks would kill the hero in a tragic way, unfulfilled to the end, while these days in movies, Adam Sandler gets the girl, adopts the kid, moves into the big house, and everyone goes home all nice and fuzzy.
While the purpose for the tragedy of the Greeks was to allow us to sense an underlying essence, what Nietzsche called the “Primordial Unity”, which revives our Dionysian nature which is almost indescribably pleasurable.
The Greeks showed the hero in vain, trying to have order and control, and this brought a tragic end.
Watching Spain, Argentina and Brazil this week has given me moments where the action on the field has been indescribably pleasurable.
And that for me is the best football.
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- football, Pim Verbeek, Socceroos, Tim Cahill
February 14th 2009 @ 4:33pm
onside said | February 14th 2009 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Sometimes I want a fix of exciting open attacking rugby .Fast food thrill a minute stuff .
Even though I can watch and enjoy most types of contests
Likewise soccer,give me a major EPL contest with a 4/3,3/2 result ,its fabulous.Even
though I watch hours of the mundane
If Australia win the Rugby World Cup playing boring ,hardnosed,not give an inch, trench
warfare ,unimaginative rugby, then so be it.What ever it takes.
Australian sportpeople are desperate to see the Socceroos in the FIFA World Cup.
If getting there takes the most boring ,dreadful, negative, unimaginate defensive soccer
thats ever been played, then so be it.Whatever it takes.
Go Pim you boring Dutchman. You are fantastic.And as all professional players are saying
‘just get us there mate,just get us there.”
February 14th 2009 @ 4:43pm
jimbo said | February 14th 2009 @ 4:43pm | Report comment
Con,
excellent shot from outside the square.
I love the way you think man!
Yes I would liken Pimbo’s philosophy to Dorothy the Dinosaur – loves eating roses and thinks everything is rosy, no matter how fat and boring she is.
Arnie as Captain Feathersword and Henk Duut is Wags the Dog.
Aussie football and this complex WC qualification process are all finally making sense to me now.
February 14th 2009 @ 6:12pm
Koala Bear said | February 14th 2009 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
Con,
as long as New Zealand (Oceania Champions) has to play the fifth best team in Asia to qualify for any future world cups.. Heck.. I think I could manage to get the lads there… We don’t need to worry about WC qualification; only the prestige of beating Japan twice in both legs, home and away.. That to me is the real challenge, and we will never ever do it while Pimbo is the National Manager…
~~~~~~~~~
KB
February 14th 2009 @ 7:03pm
Midfielder said | February 14th 2009 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
Loved the thread Con and the posts that followed …. I am more a pragmatist than a dreamer . My dream is to give football a wide spread acceptance by the Australian public and moreover in the mainstream media. My dream is simple but I am also a realist and to achieve my dream I must sacrifice some of my grander ambitions, as we are in for a very hard slog over the next 10 years especially the next four given the size of our media deal.
To achieve my dream after decades of inept mismanagement against well entrenched assumptions and rival codes .. and the management of the media in the past hostile to football and given everyone is in the end about protecting their job (including AFL / NRL people) in the media. A massive an extremely difficult task….
The only area of football that can fight on somewhat equal terms (and even then only recently) with the other football codes is the World Cup.. I think soon to the Asian Cup… Success by the Socceroos in making the 2010 WC is SSSOOOO important at many levels, including by not restricted too, any hope of success in the 2022 WC bid, media space, provide the code marketable product for the next media deal, a great help for our still small domestic competition…
If we make the next WC the TV audience will amaze TV executives … but so much hangs on actually getting there … so I am prepared as many other countries do and play UGLY especially away to make the WC.
After we have made it then we can entertain a little … whether or not we beat Japan playing ” the beautiful way” each time we play them is a dream of mind also … but my greater Dream is to develop football and that means IMO doing everything we need to to make the WC.
NOW for the most important bit … making the 2010 WC will greatly assist holding Hal together and will ensure a FTA media deal in four years… Hmmmmmm … why so important Midfielder….. WELL it’s that technical thing we all know needs improvement … a FTA media deal will do two things to greatly help the ……. “”" TECHNICAL THING”"”" …. first it will provide extra funding to develop…BUT most importantly with the correct choice of co commenter (Ross Alosis / Bozza spring to mind here) FTA TV commentator’s will talk about shape positioning as well as how to improve individual technical skill … broadcast over the air ways with instant replays, this will do more than anything else to improve the overall skill level of our players.
So given my many dreams which is the most important … well its obvious making the WC … but the realist in me tells me I must be pragmatic and that I cannot have all my dreams at once … but my main dream will make all my other dreams possible…
As an aside … in the opinion of SBS… James Troisi, is now our most gifted play maker … I have been going on about this kid almost as much as Jes has with NC http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blogs/twg-deputy-editor/top-10-aussies-abroad-right-now-167943/ I say this as it rates James Troisi on form as the fourth best Aussie playing abroad.
February 14th 2009 @ 8:22pm
Con Stamocostas said | February 14th 2009 @ 8:22pm | Report comment
Hey Midfielder,
So many dreams, I hope you get enough sleep.
I rate Troisi as well it’s good to see he is getting games, I also reckon a “watch this space” for Jedinak is called for.
Great discussion cheers for the comments everyone I had a small fear that I was going a bit too left field.
Cheers
Con
February 14th 2009 @ 9:23pm
dasilva said | February 14th 2009 @ 9:23pm | Report comment
Mid
you are right. qualifying for the world cup is the most important thing. We can do it winning pretty or ugly
However the concerns for this performance and the reason why people analyze the “Style” of the match and any other match. Isn’t just due to entertainment and the need to win pretty. The way a team perform and play football is used to predict future performances and results. A lot of people are saying that if we keep on playing like this then it’s quite possible that we will lose in future match making us struggle to qualify OR that once we qualify we will lose to vastly superior teams than Japan at the world cup. Getting humiliated at the World Cup is almost as bad as not qualifying to it and that’s where the concern is.
IMO, I don’t think we should be pressing alarm bells and defer judgment until the June qualifiers but I can understand why people are unhappy.
February 14th 2009 @ 9:33pm
ohtani's jacket said | February 14th 2009 @ 9:33pm | Report comment
I watched the game as a neutral, and while I can understand that playing for the draw was a safe, pragmatic approach, it was a bit of a letdown after the months of build-up on this site, a 65,000 crowd and the large Australian contingent that flew over for the game.
February 14th 2009 @ 9:39pm
Midfielder said | February 14th 2009 @ 9:39pm | Report comment
Das
I have more faith in our future than many on this site in another thread I listed 48 players in major European clubs under 23 …. add the existing 90 under 20 players in the youth league and that our under 20 side has won a lot of praise and won some major games…..
I see players like Jedi being a better player when he left Australia than Vinney whe he left Australia … Some of the existing Sooceroos will stay beyond 2010 so don’t panic the league will grow and I honestly believe we will get the 2022 WC & the 2015 Asian cup. Our future is bright as long as we don’t internally tear it down as our media is still small.
Das we may not replace Kool & Dukes… but the other 9 on the park and the 30 behind them will be of a higher quality… Remember to Das Obie One IMO choose PIm and I am prepared to back his judgement as he has not done much wrong..
February 14th 2009 @ 9:50pm
Joe FC said | February 14th 2009 @ 9:50pm | Report comment
Nice article Con. However when it comes to WC qualification I’m an unashamed pragmatist. My problem is that I see WC qualification matches as an end in themselves & not a means to an end. By that I mean successful qualification is the end to be achieved not a means by which we can go on and win the WC itself. Thus give me Apollo over Dionysus anyday. It’s not that I can’t conceive of Australia winning the WC, it’s just that that will be the end to be accomplished when we reach the final. And this I think is Pim’s problem. He is Apollonian because he can’t afford to be a romantic. He is getting paid for the ends not the means.
February 14th 2009 @ 10:32pm
jimbo said | February 14th 2009 @ 10:32pm | Report comment
How can something so good, feel so bad . . .
At least our quests for World Cup qualification have moved on from being Sisyphean to Apollonian.
But I agree with some of the sentiment that this world cup qualification is not going to live up to the last one, even if it should.
We are playing some meaningful games against worthy opposition and accumulating greater financial rewards, but the love is gone, baby, the love is gone . . .
We are expected to qualify now and if we don’t it will be a bigger disaster than it should be.
Trying to live up to our own Socceroo Mythology that we created, considering if Aloisi’s penalty strike of 2005 had gone the other side of the post, there goes ‘one of the greatest sporting moments in Australia’s recent history’.
There are pages and pages of fine players and young talent mentioned, but we all know, under Pimbo, they will never get to play for their country. It’s the same team every game except for a few changes because of injury or non-availability.
Hold the fake dramatic suspense Pimbo, we know the Tantalusian team you are going to pick every time and the tactice you will employ.
Being blunt, pragmatic and achieving results doesn’t always get you the fans and to grow in popularity we need to put on a show and convert the Xenophanes.