RWC 07 was about as boring as anything any human should have to endure. Outside of the Fijian’s bright approach it was all a case of “sometimes you kick…and sometimes you kick.” Argentina, low on talent across the board, almost made it to the final on an endless supply of gary owens. That was the last straw for me and a lot of people. No more Waratah season tickets for me.

If the IRB can accept these laws and, as equally important, manage to have the officials apply them then I will watch the game again. At the moment rugby league offers the only real spectacle. And don’t it just eat way at all your union types who know it is true?

“Talking of which, I think next season’s rugby will make for better watching after this week’s decision to reject the most damaging of the Experimental Law Variations. Common sense has prevailed, thankfully, but this does not for a moment mean that the IRB’s judgement in all of this should go unquestioned. The process has been a monumental failure, driven forward by people who no longer operate at rugby’s business end, against the firm advice of those of us who saw the pitfalls right from the start.

Union is an old sport, but a very young professional game. If you force through changes that don’t improve it, you run the danger of setting it back years. Many of us knew that the majority of the ELVs were outdated even before they were introduced, but too few administrators chose to listen. The lesson? Don’t tamper with the laws without a hands-on input from people directly involved at the high end. It seems obvious enough, but sometimes, those in authority don’t do obvious”

YOur solutions to rugby’s ills in this country, which are all based upon the game BEING BORING to watch at the moment, is to play more games of boring rugby??? What the??!!!

Rugby’s better off going for less games with more quality, than serving up more and more of the same boring rubbish. All the latter will do is permanently confirm to all the non-believers that our game of rugby IS ALWAYS boring!

I met an Austrialin professor who knows something about Australian rugby. He said that John O’Neill doesn’t have a clue about the real needs of the game, and is only interested in serving his own interests.

This, therefore, proves conclusively that Australians don’t have a clue about rugby and what’s good for them.

For a seasoned journalist, to repeatedly get confused about including Ireland in the context of UK rugby, is pretty irritating and sloppy, particuarly when most posters on here can recognise the difference.

colin – you keep saying that Ireland were the most outspoke against ELVs followed by Wales, and that England seem to have been a model of balance and equaniminty in comparison. Where’s the evidence for your assertion? It doesn’t ring true with me.

Not really interested in a cheap shot from Oikee. As a relatively new professional sport it is not doing too badly and certainly seems to be going in the right direction in terms of growth in spite of the competition. I know that RL is very envious.

By the way it will be interesting to see how many turn up for the England v Argentina test match @ Old Trafford, which is in your neck of the woods (ie close to Sale for our Aussie friends). This is one of the “home” test matches for Argentina so they can raise some badly needed income. The last time there was a test match at O T, didn’t they get gate of 50,000? By the way I don’t see any of Sanzar offering to do the same probably because they too concerned with their own interests.

My nephew plays for the Sydney Swans so I have a little insight into Aussie Rules but it doesn’t travel well. Rugby Union in Oz will have to find it’s own level. I don’t believe the latest recommendations are the death knell of the game OZ. It will have to be more inventive, play more rugby, the S14 season is not enough. Both Oz and NZ should bolster their club structure as SA do, with the S14 being the icing on the cake.

Ever heard of soccer? Yeah, that’s pretty big over here and in London. You only have Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Chelsea, Fulham. All top division clubs in England. You also have Charlton, Barnet, Leyton Orient, Dagenham and Redbridge, QPR, Crystal Palace, Watford, Millwall, Brentford, Luton (sort of). These are clubs who are in and in Luton’s case close to London. Could possibly put AFC Wimbledon in that list as they get crowds that are better than many League 2 sides. They get around 2,500 and that’s a league where away attendences aren’t huge. So there is competiton and the game compared to attendences 10 years ago the game is expanding. Sale, for example were averaging around 2,000 only six or seven years ago, but now average 9,000. This is also up on last years average attendence, despite the recession and our recent poor form.

USRUGBYFAN

Haven’t seen you here before. Welcome.

KO

So your Tony Woodcock. Call me a skeptic but if its not too much trouble I would like confirmation. A signal. Maybe a “That’s Gold” as you run onto the pitch on your next match. I don’t mean to offend but its not the first time someone’s claimed to be someone they are not. Agree with everything you said about the front row especially. Backs don’t get it.

I really appreciate your input and I am sure the backs among other roarers do also.

We Roarers love to sprout forward our opinions. Always, the beauty of rugby is that the basics, the fundamentals, apply. But, all the time, the basics are surrounded by the complexity of each position and the variables.

I have no understanding of the front row or the skills/tactics that are required. Some mates of mine, props and hookers continually pound me on it, but to no avail. But then I began watching the stats for my fantasy team more closely. With your “coming out”, I thought it was a good opportunity to learn from the expert. I have recently been through the agonies and subsequent debate on the need for scrummaging during the Jones era and the long damage done to the team, the individuals and the game, until Foley came along to Wallabies and now the Tahs.

Just think yourself lucky you dont have to contend with a game like Aussie rules, we have a city who treat the game like a religon over here and has 80 thousand crowds week-in week-out, we have soccer who attracks kid’s all wanting to be david beckham’s, and then we have union , which, if it was not for the international game would be just a pass-time for university teams. Once the money runs out is when you need to worry. Just remember that league and aussie rules are in the era of making money, t/v deals around the world is the targets, does not matter where the game is played really, if the product is good, exciting, then you can sell it. And the league is very good now, extremely good.

League have over 100 thousand memberships and rising, Aussie rules have 600 thousand.
The splitting up of the league t/v deals will prove a final factor in the dominance of rugby league in the southern hemisphere.
Also the emergence of the super league on free to air t/v in oz will sway some more weight behind super leagues future in Europe.
So as i have said in my previous post , union will just be the same ole same ole, you will still be complaining in 10 years time about the rules.

They also have expansion for 2 new teams come 2013, both with 1 million area supporter base who love league and want league teams. Rugby Union will find it hard to put a team into a city with 4 million, Melbourne, because of fear of failure.

Yes league has failed and not really grown outside its heartlands, but it always bounces back bigger than before. This time last year people were saying league was dead, buried be gone in 5 years. Anyone looking forward to Murryfeild magic.
We get a few of these games free to air this year.

1. Simply because the 3 jersey is arguably the toughest position in the game, hence the dash for Hayman. The tighthead is the first point of contact and tends to set the tone for the rest of the match. The tighthead’s role has changed since professionalism but the basic truisms remain. The tighthead has weight on both shoulders thus his load is effectively double that of the looshead. The looseheads can also disengage from the scrums more quickly because of this fact. Because of this need for durability props are heavier and less athletic than the rest of the players. Therefore they defend around the ruck and involve themselves less in open play.

2. Scrummaging is an incredibly hard business. The only way it could be replicated would be to do something that builds up a tremendous amount of lactic acid in the legs, perhaps deep and heavy squatting, and then jog about throw yourself on the floor, hit a punch bag for 30 seconds, do some more squatting, then jogging etc. and repeat, repeat, repeat. That is why you see so few props really making punishing runs or tackles or turnovers. It is gut busting.

3. Props do far more than they ever did previously but if you can’t scrum then you can’t play prop. Certain players have conned their way through lengthy careers, but these players are exceptions to the rule. No scrum, no dice. To that extent the body shape requirements must remain constant and so whilst props may become incrimentally fitter their role will never really deviate. It is unlikely that we will ever see props regularly turning over ball at the ruck or chipping to the corner. Players like Hayman are one in a million but a player like Robinson may have not had the scrummaging capabilities of Hayman, thus it makes sense to set your stall out differently to other props. Take David Sole, for example. Not a monster scrummager, but a very good runner. He loved sevens, for instance. Jason Leonard did not like sevens but then he never got pushed off his own ball. If you can do what Robinson does then great, but the scrum must be numero uno on the props agenda. Everything else is a bonus.

Jokes aside, thanks for blowing your cover and coming out. But, it will never be the same………..

But, here is a serious question. When you compare the stats for props:

1. looseheads seem to do more work than tight heads around the park, tackles, runs, etc Why?

2. Why do both have, statistically, what appears to be such a low amount of involvement in the game in tackles, runs, etc?

These questions arise because, on occasion, players such as Benn Robinson, will put in an effort that is far beyond his typical effort and those of other props. In the 2009 season, he has made 32 runs, 5 tackle busts, one off load, 49 tackles and two forced turnovers in seven games. So, on average, 4 runs a game, and 7 tackles a game.

3. Is the day coming where props of both persuasions do more around the park, stats wise, more general play involvement or is this already happening?

Don’t take this the wrong way. It is simply an observation (by a non tackling fullback) that needs a reality check. The stats I use are the Fox Sports fantasy comp stats.

Personally I think that sport is for the participants, not the spectators, and if the players and refs agree that something is allowed then it should be allowed and don’t worry how complicated it is. Players and coaches will always find a way to play almost within the laws in a way to suit their strengths; so we see, for example, NZ teams fielding the kick in the back 3 and then running it back with the back row in support, whereas every NH team will of course punt the ball aimlessly to and fro until someone knocks on.

In the meantime, Spiro and SJ just cancel each other out.

“While NZ always possessed talented wingers, midfielders and halfbacks our victories were usually forged upon pressure, pressure and more pressure. We may not have always been the best team on the field in terms of individual talent but we hid our weaknesses better than any other side and played very patterned rugby that was difficult to combat unless you took us out of our comfort zone and disrupted our patterns of play.”

Exactly! Isn’t that precisely what rugby is about, and the reason that the ABs are so consistently good at it. Its a simple game – physical confrontation for possession, do what you can to make space, then have the ability to make use of the space to score (or at least try to). Good teams will succeed whatever the laws in place.

Laws which reduce the physical confrontation will inevitably end up in less players commited to a break-down, hence less space…….and therefore more kicking (unless you happen to be brilliant!). Re-introducing rucking would do more to change our game for the good than any ELV.

Rhino

Last night I was at Quins v Worcester which produced 12 tries and a 60-14 score line. I accept Worcester were weakened by injury but this quote from David Hands in the Times is probably illustrative of the way many GP clubs are playing at the present.

“Always inventive, Harlequins did not aim a penalty at the posts all night. Instead they took quick taps and from one, Strettle ran with purpose and Ugo Monye finished powerfully” He could have added that their kicking out of hand for position was excellent.

Quins are top of the GP separated from two other clubs on point’s difference and the top 6 are separated by a couple of points. Bonus points will critical this season if a team is to get into the top 4 play off. Teams at the top have to be inventive to get the extra bonus points and have to find a way round the defensive lines which are stronger this year and congested by players released from the maul. There will be an exciting finish to the season with some cracking games.

As for Gregs posting, as I pointed out on another blog the Irish have probably been the most outspoken on ELV’s together with the Welsh. The RFU have always indicated their support for the majority of the ELVs being trialled based upon fact not hearsay.

Sorry Sheek, but you sadly your posting is perhaps indicative of the lack of knowledge of the game in the NH. The club game in the top 14, GP and the Magners league is different from the international arena. The problem all the international coaches in the NH have is to blend the club players with different coaching regimes into a national game plan. There is more rugby played in the NH and players coming together will find it difficult to change style to meet the game plan of the national side. There are signs that the “club” environment is beginning to take shape in the England game but it will take time: consistently of selection etc will help enormously. Interesting I saw a stat that over 80 players have played for England since 2003, no wonder they find it difficult to play to their potential.

Oikee as a season ticket holder for Quins and Quins RL perhaps I can speak with some authority on both codes in the NH. Your contention that “poms are switching to league” is just not true. For a professional game that has been in existence for over 100 years it is lagging badly behind the union game which has only been a professional game for 14 years. In years past many union players switched to play professional league, particularly from Wales, this doesn’t happen any more. Brian Noble of the Wigan Warriors has suggested recently that there should be more money on the table to attract high profile union players to the game to raise its profile in the UK. Why should they move? Albeit, professional rugby union is an infant compared to RL it generates more money than league; hence the need for RL to import profile players from the NRL and elsewhere to bridge the gap and improve the package. Profile players I might add known the RL fraternity but not to the greater mass of rugby followers in the UK, who would notice if another Jonathan Davies, Scott Quinnell etc switched to RL

I get very angry at the compliancy of RL and the missed opportunities to grow the game in the UK when it was the only kid on the block. Now it is trying to catch up.
As an example, Quins when it went professional in 1995 they attracted crowds of circa 2500 now they are averaging 12000 and a major decision will be made this month whether to expand the ground to 15000 to meet demand. Quins RL in its various guises has been in existence for over 20 years and the gate at the last game was 3800. Last weekend there was only one game of the Super League were the gate was over 10,000, whereas in the GP there was only one below 10,000. The TV viewing figure for the 6Ns on BBC 1 was 6.78M only beaten by Eastenders a popular soap on FTA. RL in the UK has to smarten its act, present to the paying public players who are articulate otherwise it will remain in its 20th century time warp. Gestures to grow the game in Wales, France and London should have happened along time ago when RL was shown on BBC every weekend at prime time and attracted decent audiences.

I enjoy watching league as it is different to union and presents a different set of challenges and it will grow as union has grown because rugby as game is becoming more popular. However, unless it becomes more organised and raises it profile it will always lag well behind union.

Westy the professional game is aware of the financial pressures and is continually looking at their financial models to make sure they survive. The underlying strength of the product is the underlying attractiveness of the game to the paying public. Judging from the gates this season there are clubs holding their own, but Bristol and Newcastle have struggled probably because of their position in the GP. Saracens will lose money as their performances have been patchy not helped by continual changes at the top. Bath and Wasps need to urgently move or redevelop their existing stadia to meet demand and generate the income.

Thank you Ohtani. Your continued support means a lot to the Adidas All Blacks.

Tim, I believe that the SRU did as well. The full laws were also trialled in the Cambridge Uni. league. So that#s 3 of the 4 home nations. Not sure about Wales.

59 people attended the session. Imagine the travel and accom bill. cost benefit please boys.

Anyway, its over. Now we can get back to watching some rugby inbetween the penalty kicks, forwrds walking to the ensuing lineout, waiting for the ref to count the players in each side of the lineout and then, if closer to the posts, penalty goal attempts.

I suspect that a short term change in strategy to the Argie style (kick, kick, kick) used at RWC 2007, and which got them to the semis may have had an impact, or been used as an outcome of the ELV’s. Of course, it wasnt and as a strategy, doesnt work unless, like all strategies, it is executed well and consistently.

As regards league, it is not the answer either. Union is too complicated. League is not sufficently complicated. Too predictable.

Knives, could you explain your photo to us, the club, your playing position, the reason for the boxing gloves etc?

We tried them, and they didn’t work. The administrators didn’t engage in some bizarre conspiracy; they reflected exactly the opinion of those who had to play under the damned things, which was, simply; they didn’t work.

But then, that’d stop rants about how Stephen Jones, the RFU and the Illuminati of Bavaria are all engaged in a conspiracy against the poor little ARU, wouldn’t it…?