By Brett McKay
April 6th 2009 @ 8:22am
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Central Coast Bears too ambitious for their own good
North Sydney fans of old, and would-be fans of the club’s new alter ego, the Central Coast Bears, were possibly dancing in the street last week with NRL boss David Gallop formally putting expansion of the code back on the table.
This was the news Bears fans have been waiting to hear ever since the club was forced into an unpopular and ultimately doomed joint venture with Manly that went pear-shaped in 2002.
The Central Coast Bears entity has been in demand ever since, and after losing out to the Gold Coast Titans when the NRL added a sixteenth team for 2006, the Bears have maintained a proactive approach to readmission through former player and now CEO, Greg Florimo.
It should be said that Florimo and his team have done a great job of maintaining interest in their bid, never missing a chance for a headline.
Despite this, up until this week the NRL had maintained a “not in the foreseeable future” stance on future expansion. But a recent change of tact would seem to be in direct retaliation to the AFL’s aggressive push into so-called rugby league heartland regions of western Sydney and the Gold Coast.
With the next television deal to kick off for the 2013 season, the NRL is literally banking on new teams bringing in increased broadcast revenue.
Gallop made no secret of this ploy during the week when he said, “the next big commercial gain for the game will be around the new TV rights deal for 2013 onwards, and while the focus between now and then is on existing clubs, there is a good possibility after 2012 we would be looking at expansion.”
In framing a schedule for potential teams to lodge their bids, Gallop added: “We would start to look at that in 2011.”
Now, for the record, I’m firmly in favour of North Sydney being readmitted to the NRL as the Central Coast Bears and playing out of Bluetongue Stadium in Gosford.
It would be the easiest and most logical way for the NRL to right the wrongs caused by the ill-fated mess that was the three joint venture seasons of the Northern Eagles.
At the risk of running with a well-worn cliché, “it’s what the fans want!”
But here’s the thing.
With the Bears being so proactive and so obvious about their goal, and with their actions being rewarded by the NRL now agreeing to look into expansion, I’m wondering if the Bears’ bid team might actually have been too ambitious for their own good?
Think about this.
The NRL have now stated that the next broadcast deal would be the obvious starting point for new teams. The Bears would happily start discussions about readmission tomorrow.
The broadcasters, in turn, won’t just want one new team, though. They’ll need two new teams to get an extra game on TV each week.
But because further expansion has only ever been spoken of as “not in the foreseeable future”, no other prospective bids are any where near as advanced as the Central Coast’s quite obviously is.
Sure, Perth and Adelaide, and second teams from Brisbane and New Zealand, have been mentioned as potential candidates. But right now, they’d be no better prepared for admission into an expanded NRL comp as would the Parkes Spacemen or Wagga Magpies.
And so if other expansion bids aren’t ready for discussion in 2011, then all the Central Coast’s pro action and ambition might count for nothing if the broadcasters can’t get more content for their bucks.
It would seem to me that if the NRL is once again serious about expanding the competition from 2013, and David Gallop’s comments would suggest they are, they need to get a little proactive themselves to garner sufficient interest from potential new teams.
A failure by the NRL to guide prospective bids up to the same strength of argument that the Central Coast currently has could see broadcasters maintaining the status quo of sixteen clubs.
And if that were to happen, fans of the Bears – both old and new – would be screwed over yet again.
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sheek said | April 6th 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Brett,
I came up with a solution for the longtime 12 Sydney clubs (1947-83), based i must admit on a bit of symmetry more than anything else. Like the Wests (Balamain) Tigers amalgamation, we should have the Easts (Newtown) Jets. After all, the Jets are a feeder club for the Roosters.
What would happen is that Newtown’s royal blue would replace Easts navy blue in the jersey (red & white would remain), while the Jets would replace the Roosters as the emblem.
The north shore of Sydney ought to be represented by league clubs, so ressurrect the North Sydney Bears. Like I said, it’s symmetry – Norths Bears, Easts Jets, Wests Tigers, Souths Rabbitohs.
St.George have merged with Illawarra to become the St.George-Illawarra Dragons. The club I would send to Gosford, is Canterbury-Bankstown, becoming the Central Coast Bulldogs.
So from the Hunter to the ACT, it would look like this.
Newcastle Knights
Canterbury-Central Coast Bulldogs
Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles
Penrith Panthers
Parramatta Eels
North Sydney Bears
East Sydney Jets
West Sydney Tigers
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks
St.George-Illawarra Dragons
Canberra Raiders
Teams outside the Greater Sydney basin.
North Queensland Cowboys
Brisbane Broncos
South Queensland Crushers or Wellington (NZ) Dolphins
Gold Coast Titans
Melbourne Storm
Adelaide Rams
Perth Reds
Auckland (NZ) Warriors
A second NZ team in Wellington could replace the SQ Crushers. Until the Titans arrived, I was incredulous there was no second team from the Greater Brisbane area. However, perhaps the Titans have adequately filled that role.
That’s a 20 team comp which might be at least 2 teams too many. Frankly, I think 16 is the optimum number anyway. But I must confess, I’m a fan of symmetry!
Brett McKay said | April 6th 2009 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Sheek, I’m in somewhat of a contradictory agreement with you. I want the Bears back in the comp (I’ll disagree with you by placing them on the CC), but I too think 16 is the right number.
However now that the NRL have admitted they’ll look at expansion for the next TV deal, the only way more revenue is going to come in is with more games per week, and as I wrote, that can only happen with at least two new teams. Logic and justice suggests one of those will be the Central Coast Bears. Team 18 is the big lottery…
Just a comment on the title too – when I posted this piece last night, I wrote the title as a question (“too ambitious for their own good?”), rather than the statement that appears. I’ve never really suffered much at the hands of the editors before, but in this case I think leaving off the ‘?’ makes the headline more critical than was ever intended. No hard feelings, Zac..
Meni Law said | April 6th 2009 @ 3:07pm | Report comment
The Bears have waited long enough, and it has been evident for long enough that there should be a team on the Central Coast and that it should be the Bears.
So regardless of if any other teams are ready or whatever, they should now give the Bears a timeline to come back in.
Yeah sure, make it 2013 (2011 or 2012 better), in the meantime, they can move the premier league team up there and start merchandising and building a bigger groundswell etc.
If no other teams are ready by the time they need to make a call, make it a 17 team comp – So be it.
Col the Bear said | April 6th 2009 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
Bulldogs on the CC ??? you are kidding; right.. Why would the CC want to support a team that has been just put there becasue it fills in a gap or because they are financially in strife.. it’s as if it’s a bad thing” oh lets go to the CC we are going broke we can make a quick buck there” well we are jack of it.The Bears made the decision to go to Gosford when we were one of the top rating teams in the NRL and financially stable, it was the move that sent us to the wall, the relocation the NRL endorsed whole heartedly.Believe me the Bears do have the support on the CC..Norths and the CC have been working together for some time on this..Brett, I think you’ll find that Perth have already began their push to be reinstated as well they are being promoted to the NSW cup next season after playing 2 seasons in the jim Beam cup.. yes it has to be 2 teams to make it an 18 team comp.I’m telling you now, they are not going to put the Bears back at NSO…Our only hope for reinstatment is the Central Coast and this is what everyone should be pushing for otherwise, it an’t gonna happen. and the CC and the Bears and the North Shore will miss out for all time…. we set out to go to the CC back in the 90s and this is what we will achieve..The Norths members have already voted on the name change to the Central Coast Bears.. we aren’t going to get sidetracked from that goal..The Bears will play 1 game a year at NSO against Manly to keep the historic battle alive and well..Melbourne are now pulling out of the CC next season, if the reports are correct ,over the weekend..Recently David Gallop said ‘it’ll be nice when someone from the public doesn’t come up to me in the street and say.. where’s the BEARS”
oikee said | April 6th 2009 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
Bears and Perth, end of story, if this doesn’t happen i am going to get 200 thousand of my mates and support netball.
2020 papua and wellington. Thats it, 20 teams unless any team folds. Aderlaide if any sydney team wishes to move.
Brett McKay said | April 6th 2009 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
Col, I’m glad you’ve commented here, yours was one opinion I was hoping to hear..
You are of course right about Perth doing their bit, but my point about Gallop’s comments was that even they would have been surprised to here that expansion is once again a topic for discussion. Good on Gallop and the NRL for even saying the “e” word in a positive note again, but they now have to quickly work with potential bid teams to garner support. Of course, these talks should probably include the broadcasters too, ‘cos after all, it’ll be their money that makes expansion a reality.
oikee said | April 6th 2009 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
Papua can play out of the sunshine coast.
Brett McKay said | April 6th 2009 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
btw Oikee, hope you appreciated the mention of the Parkes Spacemen again – I know you’re a fan!!
oikee said | April 6th 2009 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
Perth is a must, they will grow into a real force over there, forget the pun.
Col the Bear said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
we weren’t surprised..we have been waiting for it..2012 would be nicer for all us diehard supporters hell 2010 would be great for me,I think the AFL GC 17th licence may have been the catalyst..I don’t think DG would have come out with expansion unless he was solely endorsed by the powers that be who run the game..History does repeat..if you recall the same happened with the 16th licence.. no expansion was the call for all and sundry, then Titans were in after Wellington and Singo pulled out..mind you a year later from when we pushed for reinstatment.. admitedly that did leave a huge hole in us..but we just kept at it, what we were doing for the push for the Bears was the right thing to do..you can’t just let a century of history go by the wayside, it was never an option to give up..you owed something to all those players and staff over the years and supporters who aren’t here anymore and you had to think of the future Bears as well..but we have a long way to go … and Flo and Perry Lopez are well advanced with their bid, and have been working on this full time now since at least midway through last year..We did learn from our mistakes last time, and we’ll make sure we get it 100% right this time…Oh and the J/V only lasted 1.5 years the Bears were removed half way through 2001…and Flo has already stated that they will be going to broadcasters, as I said it is well advanced, we have waited 10 years for this,so i guess you could say we have had some time to prepare….
sheek said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
col the Bear,
Very inconsiderate of me, I know. I was sort of hoping the Bulldogs’ fans might follow them to the Central Coast, & leave Sydney in peace!
Midfielder said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
There are five teams with a hope of gaining a place, being CC, Second Brisbane team , Perth, Wellington & PNG…
Both the CC & Brisbane are already in RL strongholds so what extra would they bring TV media deals in terms of viewers… not sure that many TBH … much the same for PNG already a massive RL TV audience…
More to the point Perth / Wellington & PNG if you call the boarder Pacific offer a real chance for TV audience growth.
What is the safest is both the CC & Second Brisbane … both will get reasonable crowds thus not need popping up but what else do they offer… CC maybe some link with the Bears whereas a second Brisbane team can offer a further armoury in the fight with AFL having an extra team to take on the Brisbane AFL side..Also the power base in RL is heading north..
So as I see it a second Brisbane team is a cert …. then it is a case of taking the Tasmanian AFL option i.e. the CC or picking one of the more risky options with the hope of expanding the TV audience… which way will they jump .. time will tell
Col the Bear said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
See; just an add on here,I think clubs like Redcliffe Dolphins have made it clear they want to come into the NRL and thats why they fought so hard to keep the Dolphins name when Gold Coast originally called themselves the Dolphins and had merchandise already made up..hmm?? ..The Western Reds look like they have been working for this for some time, with their push all of a sudden into the Jim Beam cup beginning of last season..and that was out of the blue..Hey just put the Bears in as the defianite and let the others compete for the 18th licence, that would suit me to a tee…
Midfielder said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
Col
As I have always said to you .. the CC is a very safe bet in terms of crowds and TV viewership .. the broader concern is how much will the CC draw extra in audience over and above who currently watch.. The CC is already a very strong viewing audience for RL… whereas Wellington / Perth & PNG to a lessor extent offer increase TV audiences…
sheek said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:33pm | Report comment
Papua…..you’re got to be kidding. I was born in Papua…well, Samarai Island (beautiful little island off the south-east mainland tip). PNG got independence about 25 years too early, & they’re a long way off being consistently competitive week-in, week-out, in the NRL.
It’s still a dysfunctional country, much is the pity. Physical beautiful though, a land of extremes. iIwent to a primary school in Madang on the north coast. While we were sweltering in the coastal humidity, you could look out the window to the snow-capped peak of Mt.Wilhelm (twice as high as Mt.Kosciusko) in the far distance.
Midfielder said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
Sheek
Clive Palmer has offered to fully fund a PNG team..
oikee said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
Waterboy said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:36pm | Report comment
Forget Perth at this stage, another Brisbane team should be the additional licence to go with the Bears. If you can get a Sydney team to relocate to Brisbane, all the better.
What about the Brisbane Bulldogs? They have played home games out of Suncorp a number of times, and the Dogs no longer have a traditional home ground to play out of like Leichardt or Jubilee. Their junior base as dwindle and their generous Leagues Club can just as easily assist in financing them at a new location ( ala wests Ashfield). The name is a great fit, and they are the antipathy of the Broncos ( knock ‘em down drag them out side as opposed to the glamourous Broncs).
Brisbane is only going to get bigger both population-wise and commercially through this century, they should jump on board.
Another Auckland side and Perth to come in later.
Midfielder said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:38pm | Report comment
Waterboy
This is to annoy Col… what about the Eagle Rock at Bluetounge they are having a bit of trouble right now…
Col the Bear said | April 6th 2009 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
well let the fun begin..Central Coast Bears.. Vote 1.
Col the Bear said | April 6th 2009 @ 7:59pm | Report comment
Manly still have their ties with the Sunshine coast Sea eagles..Hmm thats more interesting. Eagle Rock will suit the Queenslanders better..that came out of the blue also…
MF ,”CC and Brisbane are already rugby league strongholds.”…The point is to keep them Rugby league strongholds, not to loose them to any other code.you see when the Bears were around in the NRL a lot of fans and supporters were from the CC who would travel down to NSO to see their team play, a lot of those Bears fans are still there on the Central Coast to this day.,I’m sure the NRL knew in advance the AFL were going to put a team in at the Gold Coast and I recall Michael Searle at the time referring to it as their biggest threat, when they were looking for approval to get in over the Bears.in 2004. well it’s now come to fruition.. I really don’t think the NRL will risk loosing this “rugby league stronghold” to any other code and weakening the strength of their support on the C Coast..David gallop has also made it clear ,and been very vocal about the detrimental effect loosing the Bears has been on the North shore with referance to rugby league..Here’s what I think MF…..
and anyone else whose interested, and if I’m wrong I’m forever banished from cyberspace…Deal..
The Central Coast Bears ARE the certainty and the others will have to fight it out for the 18th licence just as the Bears had to do last time in 2004 against Wellington Orcas and also the Gold Coast (dolphins) titans..Lets look at brisbane.. you have the option of Ipswich Jets and Redcliffe Dolphins, who is the better placed there, only 1 team from Brisbane as you say will get in..The differance this time ; and Brett this was the surprise to us, the support which come out from the News ltd press last week in support of the Central Coast Bears, after 10 years of zilch…or if they did it putting us down and out(ie Nick Walshaws article last year but thats another story right MF)…As I have said before the Fairfax press have always given us a good hearing which we appreciate.. but with News now coming on board to support the CC Bears.. then yes we are more confident, there are a few other things which have come up in the Media of late which have hinted towards the Bears being reintroduced ,which we have picked up on..but a couple of those are about certain personalities in the game and who make some decisions…I know of 2 in particular but if you are media savvy you can detect that.. but I’m not naming them
And finally I think you’ll find also MF that during the 90s the Bears were one of the highest rating teams on free to air tv, and we still averaged very decent crowds at NSO.similtaneously . Pay TV ;which all this was about at the time; hadn’t really kicked in when we were removed…But we still had one of the largest supporter bases of any Sydney team..and this was a fact.. Either you loved the Bears or they were your second team..or as in Manlys case they hated us…and vica versa.. that was a real rivalry and still is to this day in the lower grades, let me tell you that..Lets face it ,it may take us 3 to 4 years to get back in, but we’ll make sure that know one will forget the Bears, and we will continue to get the Central Coast Bears name out there until we run onto the grass at Grahame pk, and back in the NRL as the 17th team….Look at the support for Souths since they returned, could you imagine the Bears who have been out for over a decade returning to the NRL, it’s never been done in the 101 year history of the game.. But it’s time to fix this wrong…as David gallop said…
ros said | April 6th 2009 @ 8:33pm | Report comment
as col and i have been saying over the last 10 seasons we will return, the ground swell of support is picking up each and every day and now with the central coast storm finishing up at the end of this year it is now falling into place here comes the bears
Mokicat said | April 6th 2009 @ 9:26pm | Report comment
While it would be exremely gratifying for the smallish base of league supporters in Wellington to have an NRL side based here the proposition is ludicrous.
Rugby League is very much a minority sport in the Capital and ethnic in composition. Its supporters like the players are from a low socio-economic group and would struggle with the fortnightly costs of attending matches.
The Bulldogs for one used to schedule home games in Wellington against the Warriors but attendances plumetted after the first or novelty year and the experiment was canned.
Sadly, with Union so engrained here and transcending social divisions the culture of rugby league has become narrow and restricted. Its aministration is dysfunctional and its coffers bare.
As one who lives and breathes League it pains me to say it but keep the franchise on the other side of the ditch and smash the other codes in Australia.
ren said | April 6th 2009 @ 9:46pm | Report comment
it’s now or never for perth, otherwise it’s just the pacific rugby league. Australia’s 3rd rl state needs and deserves a team.
jtc said | April 6th 2009 @ 10:50pm | Report comment
I think Perth could get a team up and running by 2013. The support is there, the stadium is there. It’s a market with existing support AND potential to expand. The CC bears should get up as well as it would probably work as a club without needing too much support from the NRL and again, the support and the stadium are already there.
However the broadcasters will probably want a 4th queensland team because the tv audience up there isn’t that interested in watching Sydney teams play each other and with at least 2 and often 4 Qld games a week the ratings up there will be worth more to the NRL in terms of broadcasting rights. A sunshine coast or rockhampton/mackay based team would make the NRL more money. That would probably mean no team in perth unless the NRL wanted to go over 18 teams, which is unlikely.
I agree with ren in that I think RL needs to expand into new markets as well as shore up existing ones and on that front Perth is the obvious choice, but in the end it will be money that does the talking and I would expect the broadcasters (nine/foxtel) to have a big influence on any near term expansion, which will probably mean a Qld team and either Perth or the Central Coast unfortunately missing out.
Midfielder said | April 6th 2009 @ 11:55pm | Report comment
Looking dispassionately at it there are 5 teams in with a shot as I said before… Perth, Second Brisbane (SB), Central Coast (CC), PNG & Wellington.
PNG & Wellington appear the outside roughies helping to make up the numbers despite Clive Palmers offer to fund the PNG side.
This leaves Perth, SB & CC one of which will not make the cut.
What do each of these teams have as potential assets and what are their negatives.
SB first, already a RL town so would they add anything to the existing TV audience, given News own the Broncos would they let it happen, could take some of the crowd from the Broncos. On the plus side they would help sure up RL in its heart land in a city of near 2 million with RL under heavy attack from AFL & Football a second team may be needed to stop TV audience slide to AFL and provide a place for local juniors to go … otherwise the elite of the juniors may go to Football or AFL… these reasons alone IMO make a SB side essential in the long term plan of RL.
Perth .. will add enormously to the cost of RL with travel and accommodation costs…. Has the potential to add to the national TV audience, many NSW & QLD folk in the west and a ready made field to share with Perth Glory… a risk without doubt..
CC will add little to the TV audience.. already a strong RL area with strong local leagues clubs and regular NRL matches to keep interest in RL alive on the coast… little risk but little upside also..
SB is essential and Perth offers more potential with the CC for the relocation team, well that’s how I see it.
Col the Bear said | April 7th 2009 @ 6:20am | Report comment
They could play it safe and bring in another Brisbane team, and the central Coast….if your deduction is correct.. save the strongholds of rugby league first.. then perth and Adelaide at a later date..but either way.. the Bears will be there this time..wait and see..
oikee said | April 7th 2009 @ 7:46am | Report comment
Agree with you Col. Gallop has said we need to shore up the support we have already got, it would be like a celebration of all league fans and a groundswell of support and emotion to bring back the bears. A certainty the bears.
As for a team near brisbane, no not really, i dont think we need another team here yet, yes it would be good for the locals but extra t/v revenue would not be affected, we all watch the game regardless.
The best thing to happen for league lately is the large amount of brisbane based players now in other clubs. Hannett, Ennis and two of my faverite players Eastwood and Stag are now in the doggies, so i watch them with interest. Same applies to Melbourne, a few queensland lads down there, most teams have a few queensland lads playing in there team. So we dont really need to expand Queensland next deal. The one after that would be better, 2020 if needed. Perth has lots of potentail to gain big sponser support, this is where we need to grow.
PNG is getting government backing, another reason they need to enter when they are ready, if they train and play from the sunshine coast would be the best option, they could play some home games in PNG for TV and promoting PNG.
Brett McKay said | April 7th 2009 @ 8:15am | Report comment
I’ll throw up one thing in Perth’s favour, and it was also a major factor in the Western Force coming into the S14 – another timezone for the broadcasters. A 7:30 kick-off in Perth means the second Friday night game could also be shown live in the eastern states, and likewise, three consecutive live games could be shown on Saturday nights (5:30, 7:30, and 9:30). It mightn’t sound like much but it’ll be a factor.
Col the Bear said | April 7th 2009 @ 8:36am | Report comment
If you look at it passionately MF what would you say?? and Brett good point…just add the yellow back to their jersey the grey is dowdy…
Midfielder said | April 7th 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Col
I think you are right but IMO its not a business decision. The CC IMO is more a sentimental one.
RL will only get this last chance to spread into Perth as RU / Football & AFL will and are setting in place long term and deep roots and not to go now means it will never go, I can see no point in increasing slightly already strong areas as in the long term not to develop new markets will mean a steady decline…
Simply RL in Sydney & the CC are in the mature phase of its life and thus growth is extremely difficult … holding the line of existing positions is near impossible this is why the AFL is getting out of Melbourne and not going to Tasmania.
As I have said as a sentimental decision it is a good one, as a business decision it would be very poor… aside from a re location team…
Col the Bear said | April 7th 2009 @ 8:53am | Report comment
sentimentality will do me in this climate..and if they follw the GC mould as Greg Florimo and Perry Lopez have stated they will do, the Central Coast Bears will be making a profit within 2 years…now thats good business sense…
Midfielder said | April 7th 2009 @ 8:53am | Report comment
Col
Had not seen your last post but passionately and good business even in sport do always make good bed follows.
Even from a …”passion” … view Norths stuffed up…. are they to be rewarded over the best interest of RL and over riding those wishes of Perth folk….Who is more entitled Norths because Frank Hyde & Ken Irvine played there and they did nothing to NSO off their own bat or a young growth area with the potential to bring in heaps of fans … so even on a passionate basic no.
Midfielder said | April 7th 2009 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Col
Its never been about whether CC will make money … all my posts above say they will… its what extra they will bring the league that’s the real business sense.
Crosscoder said | April 7th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
The NRL realises finally, they must grow the game in order to provide extra content for FTA and pay TV,and as a result produce much needed extra income,be in a position to fully fund the salary cap of all teams(thus making all teams financially viable).The NRL has the luxury areawise to expand into a number of new areas.
It is worth noting the following figures by the financial Review 23/7/09 page 51 “TV Market Ad Revenue June 2008 Half”
Ad revenue $m
Sydney 501
Melbourne 367.9
Brisbane 227.2
Regional NSW 177.4
Perth 140.2
Adelaide 104.3
regional Qld 101.8
Sydney+ Brisbane + reg NSW + reg Qld= 57% of the TV advertising market.
For Oztam rl ratings to leave out regional areas is laughable.
It is generally accepted that the AFL received overs on their last TV contract,and the NRL unders based on the Tv ratings in the Nrthn States for rl and AFL,the k packer influence.
If the AFL can get $200m pa on their new contract,the NRL on that basis should aim for a minimum $150m pa,which would more than fund each 18 teams with a $5m salary cap.
On that basis it is essential that the CC has a new NRL team viz a viz the Central Coast Bears( a plethora of juniors and a huge population base including Nth Sydney) and you can add the Perth side into the NRL (due to the growth of their junior base,the time zone factor-imagine a 4pm Sunday game in Perth being played direct into Sydney at 6pm on Sunday night.
There are two obvious provisos, with the extra 2 teams and the worth to the new TV contract,and the bids by Cc and Perth must be such, that to refuse entree would be socially and financially irresponsible.
Midfielder.
Getting a new team in area with a rl background,creates interest for the locals,it gives opportunity to those with a latent or casual interest in the game,to actually become involved by supporting a new team with bums on seats,buying the merchandise and becoming part of the areas sporting fabric(eg the Mariners) eg the GC Titans.
Col the Bear said | April 7th 2009 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
will the NRL look at other networks as well to televise RL as in the case of the AFL with 7 and 10.when the rights come up, they would be mad not too.. it appears to work quite well for the AFL..Having the expansion with the Central Coast Bears in the mix and another team will bring in a lot more revenue, more games to share around…A great bargaining chip having 2 more teams thats for sure…I just wish they would bring us in for 2012, at the latest…
oikee said | April 7th 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Dont worry Col, the next T/V rights package will be a mind blower. Expansion into Perth, the bears back in the comp, Origin sold separately and the tests and four nations along with pacific and tribal games will all be sold to the highest bidders. We have the indigeous and maroi game now also becoming a popular fixture, along with the Tonga Samoa game. This revenue should be sunk back into the islanders grass roots system. Love the Bears logo by the way Col.
Col the Bear said | April 7th 2009 @ 4:07pm | Report comment
Most people we have spoken too and by the looks at what most people have said on other forums , all seem unanimous that the logo is a winner…The NRL jersey next…and speaking of jerseys, this year marks our 50th year as the Bears..1908/1958 we were the Shoreman.. 1959/2009 the Bears… so we are thinking about;and it looks more then likely going ahead; that in round 10 of the NSW cup against fellow foundation club Balmain, we will be wearing replica 1959 jerseys..The uniqueness of this jersey was it had a white number on the front and the back,ie Gridiron.. and was the strip used from 1954/1968..we are also tracking down the replica of the 59 Bears logo for the jersey…see it’s great when you can use your history this way, last year in the heritage round against Newtown we wore our ‘43 grandfinal replica jersey, we played Newtown in that GF…A very popular jersey with the red body and the big black V…..
Midfielder said | April 7th 2009 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
Oikee
What team in your opinion is more important to RL .. the CC or a second Brisbane team… remember Brisbane has a football team and and AFL team and a RL team…. the GC also has one of each … I would have through a second Brisbane team is essential for RL in the long term..
Col the Bear said | April 7th 2009 @ 7:24pm | Report comment
As I recall midfielder they had a second team..I thought the reason why the Crushers failed was because of the direct competiton to the Broncos…
Col the Bear said | April 7th 2009 @ 7:32pm | Report comment
And also Gold Coast have only just acquired an AFL team,a Rugby league team, and a soccer team(sorry can’t say football) in just the past couple of years…the NRL has to stitch up the CC now before any more competition from other codes, be proactive..It’ll be interesting to see the impact on the titans now the new gold Coast AFL team will be up and running soon…CC Bears and the CC Mariners is a good mix..and from what I’ve heard from mariners supporters they appear to be quite excepting of the CC Bears as their Winter team…Both codes can and will work together on the CC…
Midfielder said | April 7th 2009 @ 8:04pm | Report comment
Col
Col
Competition from what other codes …. RL is the dominate sport on the CC always has been with football the most played …
Re the Crushers were kicked out when the merger after the Super League war for no other reason that to help the Broncos they in fact have a better right than Norths as they did not go broke … just kicked out ..
Re the Mariners it makes little difference to them whether its one of the matches the NRL playsat Bluetounge or a CC team… because as you said its a winter / summer thing … both codes work well together now especially when Parramatta sometimes train with the Mariners.
As I said before a CC team is more a sentimental choose rather than a business choose and for the sake of RL I hope they make the business choose….
But that is not the question … In Brisbane the AFL is on the attack and RL needs an extra team to help fight…
Redb said | April 7th 2009 @ 8:24pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
“In Brisbane the AFL is on the attack and RL needs an extra team to help fight…”
yeah god forbid kids might play Australian Rules football in Brisbane… gotta keep up the fight Rocky.
Redb
Col the Bear said | April 8th 2009 @ 6:21am | Report comment
who knows what the future may hold on the CC with rival codes…Union have looked at the area as on option..Swans players are constantly up the CC looking in the schools with their clinics..as I mentioned before,yes RL is strong there now, but without an NRL side, which they did have an affiliationwith the Bears but for how much longer will that stay strong , i’m not talking about next year or the year after, but you ignore the CC at their own peril.The CC had 4 teams originally in the Jim Beam cup in a span of 5 years that has dropped off..When the Bears were in the comp… they would be up at the CC all the times with their RL clinics getting into the schools..The Bears always saw the potential of the CC..and tried before to relocate.
Now, going “broke” as you put it…We have all been over this before…the Bears got into financial strife, only when they tried to locate to the CC, and encouraged by Neil whittaker who was heading the NRL at the time..the Bears put in 4 mil of their own funding to build Gosford stadium..If the Bears had of just played 1 game just 1 game at gosford stadium in’ 99 we would probably talking about the CC Bears 4 premiership wins in the noughties instead..The Bears were left in turmoil in ‘99.. 7 Ceo is a span of 7 years..Ray Beattie;Danny Hurley(Union man)Geoff bellew (still at Manly I believe)Mark Cannon(Coaches Bears SGBall now) ,Bob Foster,Mike Gibbons, and Barry Glasgow…The Crushers Didn’t get crowds…As I have said CC Bears now …the rest can fight it out as we have had too do for the past 10 years and more……
oikee said | April 8th 2009 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Midfeilder, the AFL will never have another team in Brisbane, they have not got the support for another team. As for rugby league, we have a well supported Queensland cup comp. Wynnun, Easts, Norths, Logan, Ipswich, Redcliffe and a couple more which are well supported and a great nursery.
These teams are all feeder clubs for other teams and the footy is very high standard. Nowadays you really need to be looking at areas with minimun 600 thousand people for a team. This is why the Gold coast is a risky bet for the 4 codes. It will take alot out of them to keep up support for these teams.
Brisbane has logan Pop 200 thousand and Ipswich Pop 250 thousand, so a team either area does not make sense just at the moment. Ipswich is expected to have 400 thousand 2025 so this would be the time to look at another team. Having said this the sunshine coast is a good option. They are a growing population and i would expect around half a million by 2025 with no team to support. Gallop would have to keep a eye on this area. We dont want to weaken our feeder areas. I have watched a few games from the QLD cup and the standed is very high, this is why its well supported.
We cant stop AFL or soccer from expanding into QLD because they are sports for different type body players. Guys with long legs dont sit well playing league. They tend to get too many leg injuries. Gallop needs to open up Perth so we can introduce more players into the comp. And as i have said, the bears coming back will keep the central coast on good terms with everyone. They have a massive population in this area which cant be ignored.
Dont forget, with logan and ipswich players you have a choice of 2 teams, Coast or Brisbane. And these clubs have other teams as feeder clubs also. The only benifit for another Brisbane team would be another local derby. We have the Coast and the Cowboys already for Local derbies not to mention the Dragons and Storm, Manly and bulldogs are now becoming good popular games up here. Its travelling smoothly at the moment, maybe if Brisabane starts to get 50 thousand crowds to every game then maybe expand then. At the moment its 30 thousand, maybe this year it could go up a bit but we need 40 thousand membership i think 1st before we need to expand. Cheers.
Col the Bear said | April 8th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
806 000 people on the North shore and central coast can’t be wrong…CC Bears..
Midfielder said | April 8th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
Col
Of the 806, 000 how many will a CC team bring to the TV that don’t already watch… my guess is very few…. way less than the potential for Perth …
Crosscoder said | April 8th 2009 @ 6:55pm | Report comment
Midfielder.
Many disaffected former Bears supporters who have either switched off the game or follow other codes for starters.Identifying with a home team is a big emotional plus for an area.Just ask Penrtih and sharks people who in the past had no “home town” team to support.New people followed the game because of the locality issue.
The Nth Sydney junior league was dramatically affected by the Bears demise.
Companies which are domiciled on the CC and Nthn Sydney.
What is wrong with the CC Bears and the Perth Reds for the 2013 season.Down the line throw in another Brissie side and or Wellington NZ/Adelaide.
Col the Bear said | April 8th 2009 @ 8:05pm | Report comment
Agree Crosscoder ;Midfielder what is so wrong with the CCBears and the Perth reds this time and a second brisbane team and possibly Sunshine Coast next time…Rugby league is secure in Brisbane because of the Broncos it’ll always be there down the track.. Central Coast and Perth have to be stitched up now.. especially the central Coast…of the 1.8 mil in Brisbane and all the ones who support the Broncos how many would switch allegiance to another Brisbane side..??The central Coast is the safe bet, it’s untapped…and as I said the Bears are just about to secure their financial investor…they arewell advanced then any other for a licence, and ready to go…
Col the Bear said | April 8th 2009 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
Or do I get the impression even if they added 4 licecnces to make it a 20 team Comp.you’d still give it to another area over the CC Bears….
TREIZISTES said | April 9th 2009 @ 3:41am | Report comment
CC Bears and the WA Reds, 5 years later the SA Rams/sharks and the Orcas from NZ.
In that time, let the Sydney teams fight it out and if they can’t survive, give them the option of moving or dying.
There is no need to forcibly remove Sydney teams, this only gives other codes a leg up just like it did when the SL war was running hot.
People will still follow the code if they realise their team went bust, they won’t follow the game if their team is removed.
Rationalisation of Sydney needs to happen, but only 1 team, if Cronulla doesn’t pull their finger out shortly, send them to Adelaide or Brisbane.
TREIZISTES said | April 9th 2009 @ 3:47am | Report comment
Bears and Reds.
Crosscoder said | April 9th 2009 @ 7:59am | Report comment
Treizistes.
Whilst i see where you are coming from,sending the Sharks interstate would be stupidly premature.Why?They have already lodged a D/A with the local council(0n 26/3) for a $110m development of their adjoining car park area.The income from the sale of apartments,rent from retail and hotel facilites is estimated to be $7m a year,with no current $8m debt to service.This would make the club in the top 3 of NRL viability.
Details have been splashed in the press,both local and the sydney press.
Midfielder said | April 10th 2009 @ 12:08am | Report comment
Col after you expand to 18 teams it is very unlikely RL will expand to 20 teams… as I said Perth is a risk but has potential… Brisbane has 2 million people and 1 team… do the sums … they had the Crushers who where kicked out … not like Norths who when broke through bad management… Sydney 4 million plus CC 300, 000, Newcastle 450, 000 and what you have, Wests, Souths, Easts, (sorry had to start with those three), Manly,Saints, Cronulla, C’Bury, Parra, Penrith, that is 9 Sydney teams plus CC + Newie or 11 teams for 4.75 million … and Brisbane has 1 team for 2 million …. fair and just LOL… smart in terms of future competition from other codes… LOL
As I said a sentimental decision not one based on business … IMO will bring a handful of people not the hoards who are said to be coming back…
LT80 said | April 10th 2009 @ 1:45am | Report comment
So a possible list of contenders would be:
Central Coast Bears – fouded 1908, a leading contender and possibly sentimental favourite
Ipswich Jets – founded 1986, strong league area in Q Cup
Redcliffe Dolphins – founded 1947, good heritage and existing local support in Q Cup comp
Perth Reds – founded 1995, currently playing JB Cup: an Expansion city
Sunshine Coast – possible new start, but Falcons have played in the Q Cup
Papua New Guinea – fanatical league fan base, although not in an affluent country
Central Qld (Mackay Cutters / Central Comets) – mentioned on the footy show tonight, small pop base, league heartland
Adelaide – a long shot, no current lower-level team
Wellington / Canterbury – solid rugby terrain
Northern Spirit – Cairns based Q Cup side
With so many teams in genuine contention to play top-level rugby league in Australia and New Zealand, the game needs to seriously consider an eventual move away from a fixed “franchise” structure, to a multi-division promotion and relegation system.
It may be too ambitious for the next television rights deal, however the planning and foundations for such a system could begin to put in place.
The addition of a second division with promotion and relegation would allow the competition to expand in a fair and natural way, without the sort of arbitrary permanent relegation, forced mergers or relocations suffered by clubs in the past. The heartbreak of relegation should never be suffered absent the hope of re-instatement! The fortunes of teams would rise and fall with their results.
Col the Bear said | April 10th 2009 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
Sunshine Coast sea eagles (founded 2009)are in their first year in the QRL..believe it not MF Gold Coast titans and Michael searle and Paul broughton seem to have a fair bit of clout in the rugby league world..as he said last night Brisbane is to close to them to field a second team.. Sunshine Coast would be the better option.. and Stockland stadium is about to be rebuilt..
Midfielder said | April 12th 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
This makes more sense to me than the CC … sorry Col .. but it does to me..
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25320040-10389,00.html
Central Queensland to make bid for NRL licence
Col the Bear said | April 13th 2009 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
Yeah good luck to them as the 18th bid…CCBs for the 17th bid.. see ya at Gosford…
Gruffalo said | April 14th 2009 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Midfielder
Norths were never broke – they were the subject of a fix to get teams reduced and Manly saved. After all, the Norths Football Club put $12 million into the JV with Manly who put in nothing.
So, who was “broke”?
Col the Bear said | April 14th 2009 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
And wasn’t there 22 million dollar for the years as the merger given by the NRL.. considering the Bears were only in the mergerfor 1.5years…and the Northern eagles lasted 2000,2001,and 2002 season was without the Bears in it..and the Eagles went back to brooky fulltime during 2002, and reverted to the name Manly in 03…they didn’t even have to change the jeersey did they
yes Manly were saved when Phil Franks come on board to bail manly out…this was before Max Delmage..and the Bears were left with zilch and fighting for survival..
Now it’s time to correct this wrong and bring back the Bears…and on the central Coast…
Col the Bear said | April 14th 2009 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Hmm just found this whilst browsing, i’ve got a million of them….’Manly entered the 1947 competition and choose the Sea Eagle – the native bird of prey of the Sydney coastline, as their moniker.
Just like the local residents, the club didn’t take long in p…… everyone off. The neighbouring North Sydney Bears immediately suffered an exodus of players and dropped to the bottom of the ladder.
In 1979, Manly raided the ranks of the battling Western Suburbs; sparking a Fibro versus Silvertail rivalry that had Manly being universally hated.
At the end of the 1999 season, Manly agreed to merge with the insolvent North Sydney Bears. Although technically a merger, in reality it was a takeover designed to get NRL funding and gain access to the Bears’ Gosford stadium. Reflecting the one-sided nature of the partnership was the new name “Northern Eagles.” Norths fans, already uncomfortable about getting into bed with their historical enemy, wanted a neutral name. Manly just told them to get stuffed.
For two years the board was plagued by conflict between the Norths and Manly factions. Eventually the joint venture collapsed and the licence reverted to Manly. The Northern Eagles name continued for the 2002 season before reverting to Manly for the 2003 season. Poor crowds at Gosford led to the stadium being abandoned as well.
For a while there was a paradoxical attitude to Manly. Most League fans wanted the club to do well as every competition needs a club to hate. Much to the distress of Manly fans, because the club was short on money and performing poorly, they evoked feelings of sympathy. Fortunately, the club became privately owned and an injection of cash has taken back up the leader board and into a place where they are easy to hate.”
actually they were originally called the Sea gulls, and they took the colours of Freshwater surf club Maroon and white….
Col the Bear said | April 14th 2009 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
I also just want to add Norths members never got a chance to vote on the merger, they obviously new Bears members would never had excepted it…I really do think it’s our time now…so bring on the central Coast Bears, so we can get back to some normalcy…and enjoy watching the NRL with our team finally apart of it…
oikee said | April 15th 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
No bigger rivalry than the Bears , Manly, bring it on baby as gus gould would say. J.T to coach the new team having taken Souths to the premiership.
Col the Bear said | April 16th 2009 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
Great support from Matt Johns in Rugby League week this issue for the Central Coast Bears.
VOTE 1 BEARS: Johns says “The Central Coast Bears is a no brainer, it simply has to happen and will happen.It’s just a matter of when.North Sydney legendGreg Florimodeserves plenty of accolades for his persisitance, determination and loyalty to the Bears.” Here here..There’s a lot more so have a look..
Brett McKay said | April 16th 2009 @ 8:04pm | Report comment
Col, just wanted to say that this artcile has well and truly eclipsed any of my others in terms of responses – 64 and counting, and I reckon you’re responsible for half of them!! Get me to the TON, Col!! B-)
Midfielder said | April 16th 2009 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
Col
Matt Johns business experience and financial qualifications are what Col …. OH none … but he played RL and he knows people in the media and lives in the area …. Yep sounds like a typical RL decision maker … gut feel on who I like and near where I live…
Now Matthew in this no Brainer of a decision .. let me see how many extra people will watch RL on TV??… this will assist the battle with AFL how??… This will expand the game in Oceania for the six nations international competition how again??
Matthew RL on the CC already has a strong local competition… already plays a number of NRL matches on the CC… RL has a number of leagues clubs already on the CC… so how are you going to grow the game by double digit figures in an already mature market phase market demographic ….
Now Middie … stop with the business talk … the Cuddlely Bears want back in and they should along with Newtown & Glebe and Sydney University …. no no no Midde only the Cuddley ones…
See gut feel will make us all feel good so lets make a sentimental decision not one based on business … or the future direction needed to ensure decisions are made with the future needs of RL or lets no even r consider RL folk outside the greater Sydney Basin…
Meni Law said | April 16th 2009 @ 8:25pm | Report comment
Middy,
No offence Mate but you sound like John Ribot about 14 years ago.
If we treated it only like a business it would die.
Even Gallop now acknowledges what a mistake it was to let the Bears go.
Bringing them back incidentally will be good for business anyway.
If it wasn’t – Do you think NEWS would be considering letting us back in ?
No I don’t think so.
The fact that keeps being ignored is that they don’t have saturation in the North Shore or Central Coast.
These people don’t have their own team. A market of 1m people.
I’m sure you can come up with all sorts of figures and facts etc but as Matty Johns has said – It is a no brainer.
Col the Bear said | April 16th 2009 @ 8:55pm | Report comment
The differance this time MF then 2004 is that they are actually saying the Central Coast and the North Sydney areas combined now.. believe it or not Matt Johns does get a lot of support, and he is on a few footy shows with quite a bit of exposure, I remember talking to Matt Johns a number of years ago when he come into my work, he was playing for the sharks then.. and we had just been kicked out not long before..we had a good chat about footy, and he told me it was a shocker what happened to the Bears and he was pretty adament that one day they would be back in and on the Central Coast.. he was supporting it back then..other people like Michael buettner have aslo stuck by the club, matt seers, and as it said today the Big Joe hockey has always supported it..the list is growing and growing..the push is well and truly on,I think a lot more will come out supporting it once the NRL officially say they are expanding to 18..In the RL mags this week it says how Flo is still pushing for 2012…if thats the case, then we will need to know by the end of this season, but it is slowly falling into place for us now..we are building an NRL licence bit by bit…
Col the Bear said | April 16th 2009 @ 9:00pm | Report comment
oh and I forgot to mention someone informed me that Ray Warren during the Manly/Tigers game this weekend come out during the call and mentioned how Chris heighington will be the Captain of the Central Coast Bears,he also said “I can’t wait for the Central Coast Bears I really hope it happens, love to see the Bears back.”. I think you might be in the minority MF but thats your perogative.. as the song goes “those Big Black Bears are Back on the Road again..”.
Col the Bear said | April 17th 2009 @ 6:23am | Report comment
David Fairleigh , the Coach in waiting for the CCBs , is in the North Shore Times today(Friday) talking about the Bears and their comeback..also in the article Perry lopez, whose leading the bid committee, confirmed Heighington will be the first captain, and the meeting with Steve Crawley went well(Past CC Junior and Coach). who is all for the idea. next step is a meeting with Fox…
oikee said | April 17th 2009 @ 11:28am | Report comment
Well i can tell you one thing Col, Aderlaide has buckleys and none of entering the comp. Last nite on the footy show they vertually squashed any hope ever of having a league team. What did they call them, a Piss ant town. True, they will only ever be known as a AFL joke and a soccer town now with a coach who also thinks they are a hack town.
So we have Perth who are not really ready yet, and Wellington who have not really got enough support just yet. These 2 teams like i mentioned around 2020.
So we are left with your bears and the Central Queensland bidders. Now the beauty of Central queensland is that they dont have any team to follow. And we wont be ruining their Local comp because all Queensland cup feeder teams are from other areas.
Also with support of the queensland millionaire i think its the best option. So bears and Central queensland.
oikee said | April 17th 2009 @ 11:34am | Report comment
As for the AFL joke line, in this i mean you only have one code of Football, so you are not giving a choice to expand your horizons.
Col the Bear said | April 17th 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
They might call them the Bulls seems to be the general consenus….I think Sunshine Coast may have a better chance then CQ..they are about to get a new stadium buiilt for them(Stockland) and I think it’s a bigger population as well, unless of course a Sydney team decides to relocate to the Sunshine Coast..there is also the other option of the other Brisbane team..I reckon Perth will be ready, they already have a stadium, and a team, just need someone to finance it for them.. interesting to see what crowds they get in Adelaide this weekend for the Sharks game..but until the NRL come out and say yes we are expanding to 18,then the other bids might begin flowing .. Just as long as the CCBs are in as the 17th, the rest can fight it out amongst themselves…
Col the Bear said | April 17th 2009 @ 9:05pm | Report comment
Jason Hodges decked out completely in Bears merchandise tonight on the show Better homes and gardens, great national exposure..Jasons father was a director at Norths for many many years..and he grew up at Bear park…You see they’re popping up everywhere..No More eagle rock MF, maybe you have to start singing ” the times they are a changing” or Running Bear For a club thats had no coverage and what they did have in the last 10 years you could write on the back of a match box, the recent exposure for our club is enough to make a guy hyperventilate…
keep it coming we say…
Midfielder said | April 17th 2009 @ 9:14pm | Report comment
Col
I will post latter but as I have said all along the right place for the relocation team the wrong place for the new team..it will be a very bad business decision … but as I said I think you are already in.
Col the Bear said | April 17th 2009 @ 9:26pm | Report comment
North Sydney Bears to be relocated as the new Central Coast team it should of happened 10 years ago.
..have heard a few more staff are coming on board next week..But in saying that I won’t be happy until the day we run out onto grahame pk as the CC Bears in the red and black , then I’ll know we’re back.. …..
Col the Bear said | April 18th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
As Oikee said in the earlier post.”Bears and Perth end of story” I guess whats interesting is whats in the Herald today concerning Manly owners..on one side you have Phil franks and Max Delmage, and on the other side you have the Penn family..who would you listen to these days, if you were a Manly supporter/member..who do you think has the clubs interest front and foremost,??no word of relocation in this article, but the deal with the Sunshine Coast Sea Eagles all of a sudden must surely be in the back of Manly supporters minds..and before you say it MF; No the Eagles will not be welcome on the CC and I’m sure they are well aware of that..I’m pretty sure thats a risk the NRL wouldn’t take again
Col the Bear said | April 18th 2009 @ 11:47am | Report comment
I just keep getting this feeling that the game is about to be overhauled again, coming up to 2013 TV rights, and maybe clubs are just jostling now for their positions.. I maybe wrong, but there might be some interesting times ahead over the next few years..But I think one thing is a lay down misere, The Central Coast Bears as the 17th franchise…just bring it on..
Midfielder said | April 18th 2009 @ 10:30pm | Report comment
http://www.leaguehq.com.au/news/lhqnews/the-penns-and-the-sword/2009/04/17/1239475061062.html?page=2
Ironic is it not … the re location club to the CC … look like doing the Eagle Rock….. Manly look gone from a financial stance … so take the money and run … doing the eagle rock
Midfielder said | April 18th 2009 @ 10:32pm | Report comment
Sorry the first page of the Roy Masters story
http://www.leaguehq.com.au/news/lhqnews/the-penns-and-the-sword/2009/04/17/1239475061062.html
Col the Bear said | April 19th 2009 @ 6:31am | Report comment
looks to me just a little argy bargy to try and get some money out of the Council to build that grandstand for them selves and do up Brokevale a bit more…
Col the Bear said | April 19th 2009 @ 7:29am | Report comment
In the Herald today it says that Brad Clyde has just been appointed the football manager at Norths..this is so flo can concentrate entirely on the CCBears bid now, without having to run the football club as well..The Bears are starting to build their staff around them for the next phase..interesting how it’s all coming together…
oikee said | April 20th 2009 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
Have to say Col and midefeilder, the central queensland bid looks more a reality than what people realise.
dont know about the sharkies.
Just having gone through their sponsers and backers you would be a game man to leave this team of heavy-weights out of a bid team. We are talking about one of australias richest men and also the corparate support by the port athourity and other high class bussiness men is huge. They would be selling the bulls all over oz. I think the premier would also get behind such a bid because this area has been a boom town in the waiting for too long now. Its right next to the most pristine beaches in australia. 1770 and Agnes Waters, if the queensland government want to open up the region ( and they would) then its a bid that wont fail. They have offered a relocation for the doggies ,
I have been to these beaches, have not seen better. Tourism would explode.
Col the Bear said | April 20th 2009 @ 4:07pm | Report comment
yes good luck to them oikee,,as I have always said we need another bid to come in with us,..The Rocky area is 160 000 pop.
the CC and NS 806.000 without their own team..The Bears are surrounding themselves with formidable staff.I’m sure they are looking at the grander picture otherwise why sign up..??…CCBs 17th licence, and between the others…for the 18th..
Col the Bear said | April 20th 2009 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
And remember also it doesn’t matter who might be backing you financially as we found out in our last attempt..different story this time though..
Brett McKay said | April 20th 2009 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
guys, that was the whole point of my artcile in the first place, that the CCBs need – NEED – another strong bid to come in with them, otherwise Fox and Ch9 won’t have any reason to hand over more cash for the same number of games each weekend. 9 games a weekend will certainly be worth more than 8 though, ask the AFL….
Midfielder said | April 20th 2009 @ 4:20pm | Report comment
Brett
There are to many unanswered questions for me… I am thinking of sending a small article to the Roar explaining what I think needs to be done … but there are so many unanswered questions it is way to hard to make a call at this point in time.
Col the Bear said | April 20th 2009 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
yes and whats coincidental is that Gary Larson(Another great Bears legend) and Greg Florimo are brothers in laws..they may both get their bids up…
Col the Bear said | April 20th 2009 @ 7:08pm | Report comment
And wasn’t Billy Moore behind the push for the Sunshine Coast bid..See, us Bears guys, always thinking..As I have always said put the Bears in and on the central Coast and let the rest fight it out..strange nothing from Perth yet..But what a battle royale if one Qld bid goes up against the others.. 2nd Brisbane, Sunshine Coast, and Central Qld…
Col the Bear said | April 21st 2009 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Central Qld bid looks like they have taken the former colours of the Western/Perth reds… Yellow, Black and red..also new guinea colours..they have also got a story in the courier mail today on the bid..and the general consensus is to be called the Bulls..the Ipwich bid want to call themselves the Western Jets..they might put Tigers noses out a bit..??Ipswich also said they would be quite happy to take a struggling Sydney team…
oikee said | April 21st 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
Yes Col i know what your saying about John Singiltons push behind the Bears a few years ago and the Nrl had to go with the coast team. But they wont make the same mistake again with the Central Queensland bid. It would be suicide to do so, we have not got enough sponsers or backers in the game now. I expect Gallop to have one relocation team to Queensland and a new start up team, the other team should be the Bears. Then we have the eastern seaboard all tied up with massive league support. Cheers.
oikee said | April 21st 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
The sharks and the eels are gone, Fizgerald has finally sunk Parramatta .
Brett McKay said | April 21st 2009 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
Col, have you got a link to the CM story on the CQld bid??
Col the Bear said | April 21st 2009 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
hope this works;;The sight of two Queensland teams atop the NRL table and another season of bumper crowds for the League’s Queensland clubs has turned heads in Sydney, the birthplace of the game in Australia.
In Sydney rugby league, the Tele’s pages have for years been where the game’s big issues go when it’s time for a decision to be made. Ken Arthurson ran more flags up poles in the Tele’s pages in the 1990s to see who saluted than the man who raises and lowers the standard in front of Parliament House.
C olumnist Andrew Webster ventured yesterday where few of Sydney media representatives might want to tread when he concluded: “This will irk the good folk of this city and state, but the Queenslanders actually love and appreciate their rugby league more than us. The apathy of the football supporter in this city is to blame for the shift of the game’s heartland.”
It’s hard to argue otherwise. So far this season, 238,162 people have gone to nine NRL games in Queensland. Going into last night’s Tigers-Storm game, 510,327 had gone to games elsewhere in Australia in 34 matches.
Last year, Brisbane (33,426) and Gold Coast (21,618) had the two biggest crowd averages, with North Queensland (18,101) fourth. So far this season, three of the five biggest match average crowds are from Queensland, with the Broncos (41,368) the best by a margin of more than two to one.
The Bulldogs (19,362) have been most successful of the Sydney clubs and fourth best in the NRL when it comes to motivating supporters to actually go to a game and Cronulla (9718) the worst.
For the first time, Gallop was quoted in a Sydney newspaper enthusing about an area other than the NSW Central Coast as prime expansion territory. “The area west of Brisbane certainly appeals,” he said.
Ipswich Mayor Paul Pisasale yesterday listened to the developments and enthused about the future of the “Western Jets”.
“I sent a submission to David over 12 months ago and he knows we’re here when it’s our turn,” Pisasale said.
“He understands that the western corridor is the fastest growing area, virtually, in Australia. It’s an area which has produced great players for years and is phenomenal in junior rugby league.
“It’s up to the NRL to decide, but maybe a team from Sydney to come here would be good. Parramatta, they are a western team … going from Ipswich-Toowoomba or Logan-Ipswich-Toowoomba, we could have the Western Jets.”
Gallop said to The Courier-Mail in 2007 how he viewed the corridor west of Brisbane as prime expansion territory. Earlier this month, his language had firmed saying a team was “on the cards”.
Businessmen keen to drive a Central Queensland NRL bid had a launch in Rockhampton on Friday. They certainly seem more organised and urgent about the process than the corporate and league communities in Ipswich and its environs.
The CQ bid advocates cite a catchment area population of 400,000 and Rockhampton’s newspaper has already invited suggestions on what to call the team. The Bulls was a popular name.
But during the past two years, when Gallop has been asked about which areas were expansion candidates, NSW’s Central Coast and “west of Brisbane” have been the answers he has given. They appear the most likely 17th and 18th teams in the first year of the NRL’s new television deal, 2013, unless a club takes the NRL’s relocation carrot.
“To me, David Gallop is the main person. There are a lot of Ipswich rugby league people who are keen (on an NRL team) – they are spending their time trying to promote the juniors,” Pisasale said. “I’ve had other priorities because we have taken over the CBD, but as David says, you have to go where the fish are biting. If we are asked if we are ready, we will put our hand up – the whole region, all the mayors, would come together.”
Pisasale let rip at a media report last week critical of his region’s financial ability to sustain an NRL team.
“If they think Boeing is not financial enough, that the aerospace industry is not financial enough … all the major developers are here, too,” he said.
Pisasale said Ipswich City Council was looking at where a new sporting stadium would best be built. “Around the Ripley Valley is good,” he said.
Col the Bear said | April 21st 2009 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
I still don’t think Parra and sharks are going anywhere,it seems like a bit of a furphy to me, maybe they just have to remove fitzgerald,even Presidents of the States only get 8 years at the most in office…because you need fresh ideas..
Col the Bear said | April 21st 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
on closer inspection of the CQ Bulls bid..the colours they have are the traditional colours of the CQRL..Yellow,Red and Balck..
oikee said | April 21st 2009 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
I hate to say this Col, but it would be suicide not to include at least 2 new teams in Queensland next expansion. Like i have mentioned Rocky and Gladstone are on the verge of a explosion in population. Their pots and locations are ideal for a new team. Anyone with a brain could see the potential for including a league team in this area, i am sure Anna Blighe would not miss a opportunity like this to open up the region.
There is only one code in brisabane, the broncos. 
West Brisbane is just league crazy, even blind freddy knows that another Brisbane team would create double the crowds we are getting now.
The Bears is a no brainer also. It will just make losing a team or 2 in Sydney so much easier. Cheers.
The Broncos are a powerhouse.
oikee said | April 21st 2009 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
Talking about Fitzgerald, we have our own Fitzy up here in Brisbin at the Broncos, his name is Bruno Cullen. So far in the last 2 years he has lost us our greatest coach, Bennett, and hired a peanut who dismantal’s a winning team with a 400thousand signing playing on the wing.(Folou) and playing a winger at centre (Micheals), leaving a up and coming player toil away in the queensland cup (Ben Hunt) ,
and now he disrupting the forwards, leaving out Aston Simms, “and now” he has dropped Dave Taylor to QLD cup. His contract is up this year so i would expect another club to sign him,
and has 2 off their off season signings, Setu, and Teo, not playing A-grade.
You reckon Parramatta has problems. Well welcome to the new Fitzgerald, Bruno Cullen, a man who can only muster 2 million profit out of a powerhouse like the Broncos.
oikee said | April 21st 2009 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
I did not even mention the ones he let go, Hannet-one of the best front rowers in the game, Ennis, say no more, Stag, bennett’s favorite player and Tate, say no more again, and also Boyd, i am starting to get teary now, not to mention Kemp.
Hope we get another Brisbane team just so like the Titans, they show up this goose.
Working Class rugger said | April 21st 2009 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
I wasn’t aware of Parramatta’s woes but you don’t tend to hear anyhthing about League in WA unless one of the players muck up. All you here about is AFL, a little bit about the Force and even less about the Glory. However I did read that Manly could go under if the board doesn’t sell Brookvale to be redeveloped for around $15 million. Evidently the bank is circling. And according to Stuart the Sharks aren’t in a much stronger position. So the Bears may have an opportunity to re-enter the NRL sooner than you think. As for the next expansion. Queensland seems to have the balance of power in League these days so I wouldn’t be surprised to see another Queensland team enter.
The Reds have been running around in the Bundaberg Cup for a couple of seasons now and haven’t made any impressions. And from my understanding is that their home games don’t bring alot of support. A second NZ team is a long way off. When the Warriors started the participation rate in NZ was around 40,000. These days its less than 20,000. With the game lacking any presence in parts of the country. Don’t forget Perth and Adelaide were both attempted before and failed. RU succeeds in Perth because of the ever growing South African presence along with NZ and Eng/Irish expat communities that make up the majority of WA’s population growth.
Col the Bear said | April 21st 2009 @ 5:45pm | Report comment
Damn I didn’t get the 100 poster Brett….Oikee, the best choice is still the Perth reds and the Central Coast Bears.. but as I said ,not much has come out of Perth and their bid as yet..If the NRL go to Qld odds on it’ll be just 1 team, wait and see, I still have no doubt the CCBs will be the 17th licence…lay down misere…and as I said, if not, I’m forever banished from forums..Parra aren’t going anywhere, I think this is more about saying bye bye to Dennis..their not insolvent and not likely to be, forget it…The NRL need their teams in the western suburbs to fight against the AFL invasion out there…But the NRL are also worried, I’m sure that they could loose the CC if they leave it for much longer..If you believe the media hype about Qld, and I not ncessarily do..if you broke down the figures I still think you’ll see NSW come up trumps..Oikee I ‘m also was from Qld, now expat in Sydney for many years..but I lived in the south Brisbane district when Maninga and Belcher played for the Magpies..Broncos, virtually wrecked the Brisbane comp..but they have bounced back with their expansion Ipswich weren’t even in the comp when i left.but Valleys were and Brothers…NSW are just going through a phase, a lot of problem stems from the admin in the NSWRL, not the Comp itself, to say it’s a pub comp, is crap. and very narrow minded ..maybe they should get out and see these games before they pass judgment.there is a lot of talent there in the NSW Cup squads, but the NRL don’t run it so of course it’ll cop a bagging…with no publicity what-so-ever..it may be about to be restructured..remember Wentworthville is Parra(Grothe plays for them) and Windsor is Penrith, just different names..the confusion comes when you have both teams wenty and windsor playing in the 4th tier comp,, the Bundy Red/Jim Beam cup…..which is another name for the old Metro cup..you didn’t see mason and myles playing in this comp..No they were playing in the NSWCup comp…now off my soap box Time team is on
Col the Bear said | April 21st 2009 @ 7:52pm | Report comment
Brisbane Broncos are a capitol city team, whats the population there now.1.5/ 1.7 mil..but the Broncos how often do they fill their stadium..yes they may get 30 000 for the big games , add another team to brisbane and that will eat into their supporter base..The Dragons at Kogarah the other day, capacity crowd..Leichardt usually always has a huge crowd for a coming home for the Tigers…it goes around Oikee it’s a cycle..I still think you’ll find for years that SL era did a lot of damage to the NSW teams that stayed loyal to the ARL.. 6 Arl teams merged.. in their desperation to get down to 14 teams for 2000, they neglected a lot..and it wasn’t the right way to go about it..How is it that SWans still retain many of their South Melbourne fans..How is it that The Lions still retain many of their Fitzroy fans…Answer, They know their product.!!! and know what the fans want…they want that heritage and tradition..Alot of Fans know the product and they want the central Coast Bears..lets hope the NRL does as well… but I am more confident this time then I was in 04…
Brett McKay said | April 23rd 2009 @ 7:27pm | Report comment
fair play to you though Col, 40+ posts out of 102 (plus this one now) is a great effort!! I particularly like when you go on posting streaks where you’re seemingly talking to yourself
Hope the Good News Bears story keeps rolling on….
Col the Bear said | April 23rd 2009 @ 9:52pm | Report comment
‘Good news Bear story’ .I’m sure everyone hopes the story keeps rolling along and finishes with a Red and Black day at grahame Pk, for the Central Coast Bears…
Midfielder said | April 23rd 2009 @ 10:09pm | Report comment
CC Eels … seen the reports … broke … maybe the eels before the eagles .. play half their games at BT & half at Parramatta sounds good
Col the Bear said | April 24th 2009 @ 6:20am | Report comment
Keep trying MF..Warriors and Broncos haven’t been mentioned as potential CC Teams as yet..
Crosscoder said | April 24th 2009 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Working Class Rugger
You noted that rugby league failed in Perth.In actual fact it was given the heave ho, as part of the peace deal in Super league.WA has the 3rd highest numbers of rl juniors in Oz,and despite losing numbers of juniors when the Reds were hoisted,the numbers have been steadily increasing by 30%(according to ARL reports) each year.
In their very first season the Reds averaged 13,338 during the SL debacle.Not much less than the Force do now without such interference and plenty of hype.
Bill Nosworthy GM of the WARL,has already indicated there are individuals in that city,who want to invest in a Perth rl team.
There are large numbers of people from the Eastern States,that have moved to WA due to the then mining boom,and others seeking a cheaper home.There are in fact decent numbers of people from the North of England residing in that city plus NZedders.
I understand the falling numbers of rl juniors in NZ has been halted,and await the new figures.Anycase since the world cup win,the competitiveness of the warriors and the crowds they have been getting in trials outside the game’s traditional heartland(Auckland) is a plus.Thrw in the drop in crowds in Nz for S14 and the drop in Tv ratings leaves the door ajar for another NZ side,down the line.
It was only a few years back,that a Belgian brewing billionaire with NZ interests,wanted to back a Wellington NRL team.
I will put my house on it, if expansion is given the green light for 2103,that the CC Bears and Perth are the ones included.
oikee said | April 24th 2009 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Glad i dont live in your house crosscoder, you might not have one come 2013,
Another Brisabne team would increase crowds Col, not dilute them.
Crosscoder said | April 24th 2009 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
Oikee.
That just goes to show how confident I am.Anycase by 2013 a house may be worthless,with a $300billion Federal deficit in the pipeline,its back to the caves and the straw huts..
BTW I am not against another Brisbane team.But it would have to be out of Ipswich or the sunshine coast,and the facilities ATM to cater for an NRL side are just not there.I think the Broncos might have something to say about another Brissie team.
Col the Bear said | April 25th 2009 @ 10:07am | Report comment
What I mean is that Brisbane Broncos won’t be happy about another team in their vicinity as they will loose supporters to the other team, I’m sure they will put a fight up against this as they did last time..especailly if it becomes “South Brisbane Magpies or jets”..maybe Broncos have to become the Brisbane North Broncos.. I know how parochial it use to be between the south side and the north side of Brisbane. even Livermore is saying not to put another team in the south of Brisbane, the CQ first.I know a lot of fans who live on the Central Coast and follow other clubs ie Newcastle, Tigers, Parra, Souths, have said if the Bears are there as the Central Coast side they will support and follow that team as thats their areas club..
Midfielder said | April 25th 2009 @ 10:49am | Report comment
Col
Spot on leave Brisbane with 2 million people to themselves… never make it fair let the Broncos tell the NRL where and how to place teams … after all that’s what started the super league war … we can’t upset the Broncos after all they have done so much for the game (remember Super League)… Go the CC Eels that will mean between Newcastle & Sydney 11 teams or one team for every 400, 000 … seems fair to me … like the Crushers they did everything wrong and got kicked out in the merger many of their followers turned to AFL & Union … but who cares … North just went broke … but it was the fault of others and the weather (Norths were always well run cough cough) … so they are far more deserving …. like in an area like the CC that boats one of the highest TV rating for RL in the country … they will double it and help with the AFL attack in Brisbane … I am not hear to have a go at Norths just praise them on their successful record both on the field and in administration… Of course the TV rating can be increased from their current very high position to the nations highest like that will take only about 1.5 % anyway… Go the CC Eels
Col the Bear said | April 25th 2009 @ 9:21pm | Report comment
Sorry mate its the CC Bears, so you just have to get used to it..
Col the Bear said | April 25th 2009 @ 10:11pm | Report comment
Since the 7 /4/09 the facbook site has been agthering members for support of the CCbs to get back into the NRL today not even 3 weeks later we are up to 6,030.. Carn those might Bears… the goal is to have 50 000 before 2012…we are on track at the moment…
Midfielder said | April 25th 2009 @ 10:37pm | Report comment
Col
I love and respect your passion for the CC Bears …. in my honest opinion from my previous post from a business stance it is the wrong move.. ..not because you will not get a crowd at BT … because the things RL needs to survive the next few years you offer little …
red&blackbear said | April 26th 2009 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
Florimo as CEO, Clyde as Manager, Fairleigh as Coach and Heinghton as captain… Logo in place, stadium in place, audience & crowd support in place… Johns, Lewis, Langer, Sterling and Gould’s support. Money from private backers (non made public yet tho it is there).
We have more things ticked off then the Titans did when they were admitted.
link to bears information
http://forums.rleague.com/showthread.php?t=40724
Col the Bear said | April 27th 2009 @ 6:15am | Report comment
Don’t forget colours already there, and the amount of Juniors in both districts combined plus the population..another week coming up maybe more news again this week,The bears are in the press almost weekly, just like old times..I was talking to some of the Bears officials, they are getting that optimism about them, but they also said there’s still a fair way to go, so just continue to hang in there and push for the CCBs every opportunity you get…
Col the Bear said | April 28th 2009 @ 7:08pm | Report comment
MF whether you believe it or not, having the Bears back in this comp..will bring a lot of people back to the game, and gives the Central Coast and the North Shore their own team to support once again..how could it be a bad business move if the team will be privately funded and making a profit after its 2nd year as predicted..just like the GC Titans…It’s a win win all around…for everyone..
Pete who just lives here said | May 7th 2009 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
I know that there are quite a few Bears supporters here, but everyone supports someone. Personally I will never support anything Red & Black or named the Bears, just like I’m sure the reverse is the same for the Bears supporters. Nothing will survive unless it’s genuine, and Col will just have to accept that the CC Bears may well get up, but they’ll die the same death as the Northern Eagles, because there are hundreds of thousands of Neville Nobody’s just like me who dont & wont support the Bears & see them as failures from Sydney, which factually they are. Rugby League is tribal and they are mistaking business with passion. It’s nothing against the Bears, it’s quite simply that their story isn’t mine & never will be. Dismiss my opinion if you like, but it’s shared by a percentage of people that is vital for any clubs survival. As for Cols last comment, they died because their supporters weren’t there. You’ll bring 10 times more people to the game if you start a genuine Central Coast team. The Bears already failed once, and predictions mean nothing when you have to convince people to support you when they’ve already said that they wont. That’s bad business.
Pete who just lives here said | May 7th 2009 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Another thing that REALY riles me is when people like Col say “It’s the Central Coast Bears, you’ll just have to get used to it!”
That just indicates the snobbery and contempt that this potential entity has for everyone in the region. That’s done more damage than anything I’ve heard so far, and is probably the finest example of why I am more determined than ever to not support them.
Gruffalo said | May 7th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Pete
Absolute crap.
the Bears gave up their heritage, area, history for a genuine relocation to Gosford. If not for the Bears, there would be no stadium in the first place. The Bears did all the hrad work – no-one else – the Bears.
Due to politics and a fraudulent “bankruptcy” claim, the Bears have been backstabbed out of the NRL – 10 years ago – and now they want to establish what was promised.
It’s time that the Central Coast and NRL appreciated the work that the Bears have done – and maintained – for 10 years to get a local team going there.