http://www.realfooty.com.au/articles/2009/05/21/1242498846785.html
“Abba puts Swans in the shade in west

Michael Cowley | May 21, 2009 – 11:07AM

JUST a few weeks ago, Australian Rugby League chief executive Geoff Carr declared western Sydney could be a Vietnam for the AFL. They rejected that suggestion, and have said it won’t be their Waterloo either, regardless of some disappointing television figures in the city last weekend.
Despite strong promotion throughout the week, focusing on the extraordinary rivalry between Sydney and the West Coast, fans in Sydney just decided not to tune into Network Ten to watch the match on half-an hour delay, with even Abba: The Movie on SBS, a film made in 1977 when just four of the Swans current crop of players were born, outrated the game.
While it was ranked nationally the 10th best program of the day, the Swans-Eagles clash averaged just 76,000 viewers in Sydney, compared with the 77,000 for 9.30pm Abba epic. And the average for the program which preceded the Abba movie at 7.30pm, the Eurovison Song Contest the contest won by Abba in 1974 with the song Waterloo was a strong 118,000.
On Seven, Kath and Kim and then The Vicar of Dibley, and the movie Meet The Parents all rated better than the Swans game, as did Nine’s pair of movies, so too The Bill on ABC, really almost everything did all day.
The only programs with lower average audiences in Sydney were a Disney movie shown on Seven at 9am (75,000 average), the Saturday Disney show on Seven at 7am (62,000), and Ten’s Saturday afternoon AFL match between premiership favourites Geelong and North Melbourne which averaged just 50,000.
While some might see the figures as Sydney turning off AFL a problem as the code looks to launch the Western Sydney team in 2012,

AFL NSW/ACT general manager Dale Holmes said yesterday the poor ratings did not affect their plans for expansion.
“You have peaks and troughs, and that can be correlated to the cycle of performance,” he said. “That’s natural, it happens to all sports, but what we are talking about is a long-term strategy for expanding the game. The [AFL] Commission has reiterated its commitment to that plan. We don’t make long-term strategic decisions based on short-term fluctuations.

“These are short-term fluctuations, and what we are talking about is a generational investment for a long-term growth of the game. From that perspective, it [poor ratings] doesn’t impact at all on our expansion strategy. In some ways, it reinforces the need for us to grow the game across a broader base of Sydney.”

A crowd of 33,079 attended the match at ANZ Stadium, and while not many turned on their televisions at home, a trend is for people to gather at local pubs and clubs to watch matches.

The ratings could be a good omen for the Swans. In 2005, much was made of when SBS’s Iron Chef outrated a StKilda-Swans match. Sydney, of course, went on to win the flag that season.

C10 must be slitting their wrists as to WHY that agreed to show not only Lions game in Prime-Time by NON Lions games to the Brisvegas market.
No wonder the Stations broke. I suggest they get Sandra Sully to host/commentate the coverage. In that cast they would get more that 2&dog watching.
1 Billion for next Victorian Handball TV deal…………Only if they get payed in Mexican pesos.

I know that AFL fans have not publicly stated this on the ROAR (I don’t remember mentioning the ROAR).

But it is quite rife across a number of other sites though..

Not everyone AFL fan has this view, but there seems to be some deep hatred for League down south..

I”ve never known any AFL fan on the ROAR to death ride the NRL (mind you, there aren’t many of us here!)

It’s true to say that the average Southerner doesn’t take much notice of the rugby codes – but that’s a little different to saying that they wish either code ill (and in fairness, Melburnians come in large numbers to show piece events of either rugby code).

Its amazing the number of AFL fans that death ride NRL and Ruby League in general… and you wonder why we get so defensive..

It’s called advertising, likewise the first RL SOO game is being widely promoted on TV in Melbourne (now, 3 mths out) – that game is between QLD and NSW, relevance?. is that shoving it down my throat? or just simply promotion. I don’t to watch or go to the game but some people will.

“there should be no excuses for lower crowds or lower TV audience” – are you building your defence already?

The Melbourne storm are owned by News Ltd who have pumped tens of millions into the Storm, far more than the AFL could muster for the Swans, and yet despite two premierships and GF appearances the crowd dropped to 10,000. – what is their excuse? They are owned and promoted by the biggest circulation newspaper in Australia, the Melbourne Herald Sun.

The fact is a different code takes time to become part of the landscape, the Swans may have been around since 1981 in Sydney, but have gone through differing periods of success and failure and it has probably only been since 1996 that they became a real football club and started to get into the conscious of sports fans, rather than being perceived as relocated Melbourne team with private ownership and pink helicopters.

I repeat, the media is far more hostile towards AFL in Sydney than NRL in Melbourne. They have successfuly fostered an invasion rhetoric, “they’re trying to take over”. Is it any wonder so many of you death ride the Swans at every turn – it’s a sport in Sydney to watch the TV ratings for the Swans rather than just watching the Swans.

The Swans have a niche in the Sydney market and more improtantly on the ground the grass roots and school programs are developing. At the grass roots level the support for growth from the AFL has only come in the last few years.

Redb

I’ve seen the AFL ad promoting the Swans Vs Carlton game about 10 times this week on FTA TV. Same the other week for the Swans vs Hawthorn game.

This is an example of shoving AFL down our throats! There are many more…

I have never seen any promotion like this in Syd except for maybe the Socceroo’s games or state of origin.

I doubt any sporting team in Aus has received this much exposure.. there should be no excuses for lower crowds or lower TV Audience…

When is the last time a Brisbane Lions’ or Swans’ game achieved those numbers?

re the Foxtel ratings -

a couple of points need to be made.

A. Sydney/NSW is the most mature by BOTH real and relative terms pay tv market – - so, the NRL has a natural ‘bias’ with the present pay TV market.

B. the AFL matches on PAY TV are rarely shown at the same time around the country. Invariably, what is on foxtel in Perth or Adelaide might be different to what is on Foxtel in Sydney or QLD. Whereas, the NRL Foxtel coverage is very much more uniform.

C. the AFL mix includes a state by state variation in the FTA mix as well. It’s all too complex to try to pluck single figures too often. Often though, the Swans and Lions are on FTA effectively against themselves on Pay. (market saturation!!).

Peter -

note that when the Swans draw 30-40K in Sydney, invariably, it’s the biggest crowd in town.

Last weekend, we sat back and watch Carlton and Essendon on short delay, in front of 70K, a cracker game………and now and then we heard the fireworks from across the road at Olympic park…….where they had 10,000.

Perhaps there’s an image issue. The Storm are over hyped. Dancing girls, fire works, and the like – - that ain’t Melbourne. And certainly not when 12 years in, they still haven’t figured that the best way to go about it is business like, get on with the job and earn real respect and give up on the ‘floor show’.

(btw – I know this now about Melbourne – - heck, I used to love the reserves before the senior game, and thought the lack of that might reduce the entertainment value proposition and reduce crowds etc———–nah!, people are happy to get there an hour early just to eat their packed lunch, read the paper and stare at the grass…………..you could just as easily be at the test cricket!!! )

10 years in, the Swans were at their lowest ebb, on and off the field, and 10K was a good crowd.

10 years in, Melb Storm are the glamour team, 2 flags under their belt, and SoO reps, Australian Reps and 12K is about the best they can do.

(and that’s without negative publicity, and WITH News Ltd dividend being pumped back in via the private ownership arrangement to keep them afloat – - – oh, it may all change with the new govt gifted rectangle stadium – - and perhaps Sydney will be truely made to look the pathetic sporting joke that it is – when it’s NRL heartland is compared to Broncos, Titans, Cowboys and Storm).

PEter – Storm gets good coverage (well, only positive, NOTHING negative) in their owners own newspaper (the Herald Sun). The Age on the other hand, being a soccer newspaper, gives MVFC a better run. It’s odd having both these papers showing their vested interest hands in backing either of Storm or Victory, and because they’re in Melbourne – - they MUST cover the AFL (but, don’t hold back on the negative slant whenever possible, and I think has got worse since radio SEN gave us 24 hour talk sports radio – - i.e. the newspapers need to be even MORE controversial to generate the interest and to attempt to set the talkback agenda – - – it’s oh so messy. At any rate, in Melb, Victory and Storm both benefit from radio SEN, with regular time slots, and regular interviews etc – - – is there a Sydney equivalent??).

How is AFL shoved down your throat exactly? is that reality or just how Sydneysiders perceive it because they are so biased against anything Victorian and paranoid about ‘invasion’.

Rugby league does not face anywhere near the same animosity towards it in Melbourne that the AFL faces in Sydney. That is why a random game of Melb Storm shown in prime time will get 200,000 Melbournians watching becuase it’s sport and there was no other sport on.

The fact is the 200,000 who might watch on TV don’t translate to real support – those who go to the game, the opposite is true in Sydney for the Swans or at least the gap is much wider.

That said, Ch 9 do a far superior job of bringing the NRL to life on TV compared to the poor job done by Ch 7 and 10 for the AFL. This is one of the main problems for the AFL in Sydney and Brisbane. RL is much easier to cover as it is played on a smaller ground and you can get cameras close to the action. AFL remains much better live at the ground than on TV.

The Foxtel audience would have comprised fans from Sydney watching as well, plus a QLD component. Hoping it was a huge Melbourne audience is just wishful thinking, Pay TV penetration in Melbourne is much lower than Sydney.

Going back to 1993 when the Swans almost went under is a joke. If you want to play with numbers…..

Swans average 100,000 on TV, get 25-30,000 to games – a conversion of 25-30%.

Storm got 200,000 on TV, followed up by 10-12,000 to a game – a conversion of 5-6%.

You can do anything with numbers, stop being so paranoid about the AFL in Sydney, if there is no threat why all the posts about the Iron Chef .

Redb

Storm have been around for 10 years, Swans close to 30 years. Swans have had more than enough time to establish & build support.. Lets not forget the Super League war which turned many fans off League and are now following AFL. Storm play out of a run down stadium, Swans play out of world class stadiums. Swans and AFL is general is shoved down our throats. I doubt Storm have anything near the promotion that the swans get. You’re comparing apples and oranges..

Lets not forget the Sydney Swans averaged under 10K crowds when they had been around for 10 years… now thats pathetic.. you refer to one game, this was the entire 93 season!

The only reason that Swans are shown on FTA is Syd is due to AFL pushing for it. If it weren’t for this, the networks would definatley not show them until mid-night. They lose the ratings in the those timeslots everytime!

Not sure if you noticed, but the storm game vs titans rated 2nd highest on PayTV a few weeks ago (only behind Socceroos game, which is fair enough)… guess what, the game was in Melb as well. Maybe there is a TV market for them down south – Wake up channel Nine!

The point is the Swans are at least televised on FTA in Sydney on a regular basis and there is competition, you cutely leave out Foxtel, I bet there was a rugby league and rugby union game on in competition on Saturday night.

It’s not entirely relevant anyway the AFL has a niche in Sydney and gets good crowds.

Melbournians will watch sport on TV if nothing else is on. 200,000 for one game, with no AFL competition on FTA or Foxtel. Big deal.

The Storm’s crowd was 10,000 last round, yep just 10,000 – pathetic.

For every comment you throw up about the Swans in Sydney can be thrown back at you twofold re the Storm in Melbourne. Imagine only getting 10,000 to a supposed national game in a city of almost 4 million!

Redb

So rebstar if the Storm get “beaten by the test pattern in Melbourne.” what do the swannies and Victorian handball in general get beaten by…besides everything including the kitchen sick.

I hope you note that 4 out of the top 10 programs were AFL games.

Yes for 100 odd years the reason the AFL plays its Grand Final on a Saturday afternoon is due to the potential clash with the rugby league prelim final in Sydney.

The Storm is not even played on FTA in Melbourne, certainly not up against the AFL where it would get smashed. That the Swans get any FTA coverage at all in Sydney shows the gap between the respective camps.

Peter, the Storm get beaten by the test pattern in Melbourne.

Redb

2009 Sydney Saturday Night TV Ratings War:
Iron Chef 3 – Swans 0.
Not only did the swannies game come LAST on TV between 7-10pm on Saturday night but an 25 year old movie[Trading Places] got more viewers on C10 till midnight than the swannies got earlier in the evening. OUCH!
Bring on the western sydney white elephants :lol

If that occurs then the AFL GF TV Ratings would be decimated in both NSW & Queensland.

I just read one of your posts on here where you said the Storms’ TV ratings in Melbourne were zero for last Saturday night. It is true that there was no coverage on the FTA networks but the Storm v Titans’ game rated 275,000 Australia-wide on Pay TV. So I might suggest that some of that audience may have been from Victoria:

http://www.astra.org.au/content/pdf/MediaReleases/ASTRA-Ratings-for-Week-090329.pdf

Top 50 Subscription TV Program Broadcasts
National STV Program List: All People – w/c 29 Mar 2009 Weekly

1 LIVE: FOOTBALL: WORLD CUP QUALIFIER AUST. V UZBEKISTAN Fox Sports 1 Wed 20:00 431 431 1,343 883
2 LIVE: NRL STORM V TITANS Fox Sports 2 Sat 19:30 275 275 1,541 644
3 LIVE: NRL PANTHERS V WEST TIGERS Fox Sports 2 Sat 17:30 245 245 1,218 533
4 LIVE: AFL FREMANTLE V WESTERN BULLDOGS Fox Sports 1 Sun 19:01 240 240 1,335 736
5 LIVE: AFL GEELONG V RICHMOND Fox Sports 1 Sat 14:00 223 223 1,208 594
6 LIVE: NRL SEA EAGLES V PANTHERS Fox Sports 2 Mon 19:00 220 220 1,160 568
7 LIVE: NRL RABBITOHS V KNIGHTS Fox Sports 2 Sun 14:00 214 214 1,167 497
8 LIVE: AFL CARLTON V BRIS LIONS Fox Sports 1 Sat 19:00 204 204 1,488 658
9 LIVE: FOOTBALL: WORLD CUP QUALIFIER Fox Sports 1 Wed 22:00 166 166 1,101 650
10 LIVE: AFL MELBOURNE V NORTH MELBOURNE Fox Sports 1 Sun 13:01 160 160 1,140 495
11 FAMILY GUY FOX8 Mon 18:45 150 186 991 1,244
12 NCIS TV1 Sun 20:30 131 146 1,479 591
13 THE SIMPSONS FOX8 Thu 19:07 129 186 1,007 1,835
14 LAW & ORDER: SVU TV1 Sat 22:15 108 132 1,237 888
15 LIVE: NRL SATURDAY PRE GAME SHOW Fox Sports 2 Sat 16:55 103 103 1,210 208
16 FUTURAMA FOX8 Mon 18:20 102 144 915 1,066
17 LIVE: AFL: ON THE COUCH Fox Sports 1 Mon 20:30 101 101 1,159 209
18 RAMBO Showtime Sun 20:30 100 149 1,424 602
19 LIVE: RUGBY UNION: S14 WARATAHS V STORM Fox Sports 3 Sat 19:30 95 95 1,538 329
20 LIVE: NRL SUNDAY PRE GAME SHOW Fox Sports 2 Sun 13:25 91 91 1,116 141
21 LIVE: AFL PRE GAME SHOW Fox Sports 1 Sun 18:30 90 90 1,009 426
22 GRAND DESIGNS Lifestyle Thu 20:34 88 116 1,265 442

bugger a Brisbane GF – the great thing about NRL and AFL that we know where and when the GF will be and how many people can get in.

The Saturday arvo timeslot as a timewarp…ah, you somehow convey a condescending tone.

Reality is that the Sat arvo timeslot is 8 year old friendly. Especially for Aust Footy, as the extra length of the game makes a later start more of an issue than for NRL.

Funny thing is some people on theRoar have even attacked the auskick kids getting to present the medallions, when, for us, we look at that and think how cool it is for those kids, and that it’s 5.45 pm and note 10.15pm so they can be involved.

Reality, yes, AFL could probably boost ratings by going to the evening or even twilight time slot, and pre-game entertainment looks so so so much better in ‘dark light’. (e.g. light show, fireworks, suspended objects on wires, …..like….little girls…….a tram……..or a duck etc)

My read of what MC is saying is Sunday evening is a tradtional TV time, Saturday afternoon is not. It is a more friendly TV ratings time, nothing more nothing less. The NRL and its TV carrier were very keen to take advantage of the 7pm timeslot due to its prime time proximity. I understand due to fan pressure from the NRL fans who do actually prefer afternoon BBQ time it was brought back to 5pm as a compromise, the fans wanted it at 3pm.

Stuck in a Saurday afternoon ‘timewarp’ – you bet, wouldn’t want it any other way.

Redb

nah, remember, all year we’ve had Friday night footy, saturday night, sunday arvo etc etc. The finals series gives us 4 matches for the first 2 weeks. Come the prelim final we lose Sunday. Come the GF weekend we lose the Friday night. But the Sunday arvo, we’re at a loss.

Remember, AFL GF on a Saturday arvo vs NRL GF on a SUnday evening. Big difference.

Granted, Sydney centricity of a Sunday evening GF when only NSW has the next day as a public holiday………gawd!, that always get’s me.

anyway, in your mind, come the Sunday, can you understand that a few Victorians on the wind down will watch just about anything that resembles footy. (okay, line would probably be drawn at ARC!!!)

For every argument Sydney based RL fans throw at the Swans it can come right back at you re the Storm in Melbourne, the Storm aren’t so much a punching bag but a boomerang right back at ya.

Redb

BS they call us Mehicans we call them ‘gringos’ !

Re your last para,try telling that to J Kennett.
You can call us bluebloods if you wish.

remember, that the AFL GF is on BEFORE the NRL GF. If the NRL GF were on before the AFL GF, the AFL state viewership WOULD be much less.

For pretty obvious reasons of pre-occupation with the ‘local’ build up etc.

For the NRL GF falling at various times the day after the AFL GF – well, the big thing that hit’s an AFL fan at 5.45pm on the last Saturday in September is………..heck, when’s the first NAB cup game next year???
so, we look for anything, including the SANFL GF on ABC sometimes, and the NRL GF……..and then bring on Bathurst and the Spring Carnival.

Not bagging the NRL GF – but, reality is, if it fell on the day before or the week before, you’d probably get a very different result.

But, of course, we don’t hold the same anti NSW hatred that Sydney folk hold towards the Mexicans (heck, we can’t even be bothered given NSW folk a nickname!!!)