By Adrian Musolino
April 22nd 2009 @ 4:18am
Related coverage
A-League draw throws up some big questions
Matt McKay (left) and Billy Celeski in action during Round 18 of the Hyundai A-League between Melbourne Victory FC and Queensland Roar FC at Telstra Dome, Melbourne, Friday, Jan. 2, 2009. AAP Image/Raoul Wegat
A-League fans have their wish of more games with the release of the 2009/10 draw. 51 more games, in fact, with the season now further intruding into the AFL and NRL seasons.
With debuts at the SCG, Subiaco, Thursday night games, two new teams and a midweek round, this season may prove to be the League’s greatest test.
Firstly, the intrusion into the ‘winter codes’ season throws up some interesting dilemmas. For one, it results in Melbourne’s early season Thursday night matches at home.
It also raises question marks about the ability of the League to gain much traction during the first two months of the season.
With World Cup qualification a mere formality, likely to be achieved a couple of months before the A-League season kicks off, there won’t be a huge springboard into the season, unlike that which will help launch the 2010/11 season after the Socceroos take part in another World Cup.
This is why the next stage of expansion should take place immediately for 2010/11.
Strike when the bandwagon jumpers are on board.
But the addition of Gold Coast and North Queensland has already added much to the competition, depth in teams, fixtures, intrigue, and avoids, by a couple of weeks at least, teams meeting one another so regularly.
This can no longer be used as an excuse for poor crowds.
Debutant Gold Coast United is the first club to take issue with the draw, in particular the decision to stage their first round match against local rivals Queensland-Brisbane Roar at Suncorp, a decision they labelled a “slap in the face.”
It’s obviously a free kick to the Roar who is struggling financially and face increased competition within a state they once owned but now has a significantly reduced market share in.
As a result, Gold Coast fans are forced to make the hour-plus drive north for their team’s debut.
Both the Gold Coast and North Queensland have the potential to draw crowds across the country, and this adds so much to the schedule.
Sydney FC will meet the Fury and Fowler at the SCG in Round 6, due to the NRL finals.
Let’s hope Fowler’s hamstring is still intact by then.
Much is being asked of the Perth Glory, however, hosting Sydney FC at the 46,500 capacity Subiaco. It’s a difficult task for the Glory to even hope to half fill the ground when they can’t even fill the 18,156 Members Equity Stadium.
However, the Round 19 midweek round is a step in the right direction, a sign, with the added fixtures and calendar congestion, of our growing football maturity.
The tyranny of distance precludes too many consecutive weekend-midweek rounds, and so Round 19 is spread over six weeks over the Christmas and New Year period.
Smartly, too, the midweek fixtures have been given to teams able to pull a crowd: Melbourne, Adelaide plus a Queensland derby between the Roar and Fury.
Meanwhile, the much panned finals system, with six teams, at least keeps more clubs in contention, especially if we have the same bottleneck race as the regular season comes to an end, helping to maintain crowd interest for teams on the brink.
Crucially, too, there is fairness, the FFA resisting the huge to move toward an AFL type uneven competition.
All teams will play each other three times.
After last season’s stagnating crowd figures, it is only natural the focus next season will be on any changes in this regard.
The FFA is using the first stage of expansion to up the ante for this coming season, with bigger stadiums, more fixtures, and new initiatives.
They’ve really raised the stakes.
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Koala Bear said | April 22nd 2009 @ 7:52am | Report comment
What did you expect .. ? The whole draw is designed by an AFL lunatic…
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KB
Midfielder said | April 22nd 2009 @ 8:00am | Report comment
I am a little apprehensive about the head to head battle with the AFL & NRL so early on in Hal’s existence… Many questions come to mind .. are we ready … do we have the players… why now, why not in 2 years …. why not after the WC assuming we make it …. why the rush…
Then I look at Obie One … BB & now Archie Fraser… do they have the management ability to make the call … would they have checked and rechecked data / surveys / economic conditions / Asian Football politics / the ability of the new and existing teams to survive / would , could they assume media coverage etc ….OMG it had to come one day and the day is near … head to head for 3 months the starting two and the ending month… no longer hide behind the summer protection …. massive call … the bring it on crowd,” have won” … bugger me it is going to be hard.. However although I think it’s to early I have faith in the management team so where to from here…
….”Archie Fraser the man charged with taking the A-League to the next level has warned the clubs he intends to set demanding benchmarks and won’t tolerate “mediocrity”. “There is no time for Excuses”
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25356022-5006068,00.html
The gist of this article is everyone must lift to a higher standard at club / player / coach level … Fraser’s argument is more about administrators lifting their game and connecting to the football family including the elusive “European set” …
Management he argues need to do more to connect to the football family … he is right … how it’s done I have no idea at this stage… all I know we are no longer a fringe player on the Australian sporting landscape we have a 8 month season … still 4 years away from the next media deal…
I have faith in our management team I hope that Archie can show and lead the A-League teams on how to improve and connect more with the football family … the start of stage 3 … so much to do, so many obstacles in the way, in the end it will come down to the average punter in the street … the new day awaits expectations a plenty, .. Yes we can says midfielder looking around nervously yes we can…
Midfielder said | April 22nd 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Papa
Tough call …AFL lunatic …
Tom said | April 22nd 2009 @ 8:07am | Report comment
The SCG and Subiaco games are strange ones.
The big problem with the draw though is Melbourne and Adelaide playing ACL games during the finals series. I don’t suppose there was anything that could have been done to change that, but hopefully if either of those teams make it to the last couple of weeks of the finals there’ll be some kind of concession made.
Michael C said | April 22nd 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
“After last season’s stagnating crowd figures”
They didn’t stagnate.
They fell to below V2 levels.
- – - btw, a 3 ’round’ H&A draw IS an uneven draw, i.e. team A plays team B thrice, but has 2 homes games vs 1 away. With such tyranny of distance as referred to in the article – how then is such an arrangement anything but uneven??
(reality always is, if you plan to make the finals and win, you’d better just beat the opposition on the day whereever and whenever you play – and not whinge about inequities of a draw. A fixture that invariably changes in it’s nature of inequity from the time the draw is first put together to the time the season is a month in and the new season’s ‘form’ and injuries and the like come into play)
Adrian Musolino said | April 22nd 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
There is more fairness in playing each team an equal amount of times compared with the AFL example.
Finno said | April 22nd 2009 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
I thinks it a better idea to start in August than September to avoid the the finals series of AFL and league. You have to watch that the final A – League series doesnt clash with the start of the winter codes though. The A-League must not be seen as to compete with the other codes.
The A-League doesnt need to see themselves as another football code. Let AFL, league and Rugby bash each other out over expansion into tradition areas held by others. Football has no traditional areas is
And having the crowds attendance drop is a good reality check for the A-League if the clubs can survive the economic down turn, expansions and pull through with the main body intact its not a bad thing .
The A-League has to survive first and remain connected with the Socceroos. The A- League needs to be a permenant fixture in the sporting calender of Australia not a flash in the pan.
Norm said | April 22nd 2009 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
-”They didn’t stagnate…They fell to below V2 levels”..but not to the same level as Sth Africa & UAE NAB cup crowds.
Michael C said | April 22nd 2009 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
Adrian -
true – but still not ideal or perfect. And so, a compromise.
When you then factor in a variety of factors such as :
playing Team A when Player B is on higher duties for King and country,[the AFL killed off SoO and doesn't have this 'problem']
the club in general having to compromise between conflicting ‘tournaments’, i.e. when an ACL campaign get’s in the way of a HAL campaign (or vice versa) [the AFL doesn't have this 'problem'!!]
Tyranny of distance, sees an advantage for NSW teams and QLD teams having 2 intra state road trips (okay, no trip to Townsville is ’short’) compared to Wellington always going ‘international’ on the road, and Perth always going BACK IN TIME (time travel)to play a game ‘away’,[granted, the same state teams don't share venues, in AFL, obviously, the Melb teams share 2 venues and often lose 'home' ground advantage.]
and given the fledgling nature of the tournament, with clubs still struggling to break even – the simple fact that the 21 game season previously has provided 11 home vs 10 away or vice versa, means that every year, half the competition is at a financial disadvantage (1 ‘home gate’ down). ON this front, for all the lack of a ‘balanced’ H&A fixture, the AFL DOES schedule each club to 11 home matches.
There’s varying degrees of fairness.
Finno -
soccer in Australia has been pretty well dominated by NSW sides in the NSL and thus far the HAL. The greatest absolute and relative numbers of soccer participants are in NSW by a fair way – - NSW is the ‘home’ of soccer. It’s only the spin doctors who try to make you believe that it presents a nice ‘average’ across the country. Truth is, it’s very Sydney centric. And, just check most the bloggers who are pushing for a 2nd Sydney team, and a team at the ‘Gong, and mebbe one in Canberra (reality, ACT is part of NSW culturally – just compare the BArton Hwy vs the Federal Hwy!!! All ‘good’ roads lead to Sydney.)
Millster said | April 22nd 2009 @ 3:13pm | Report comment
I have to say, whatever the logic or lack thereof in the different scheduling and finals decisions, there is ’something extra’ about this coming season.
Maybe it’s the 2 new clubs?
Maybe (and this is more just Sydney-centric) its the change of guard at SFC and the hope of something better?
Maybe its the realisation that has come, and stayed, from last year’s ACL adventure of our actual – and potential – place in the club footballing world?
Maybe its the anticipation of the World Cup which is just around the corner?
In any case, for all my mixed views about what is going on, in my heart there is an excitement. Andthough i’ve been a good HAL supporter from the start, attending over 50% of SFC games since Season 1, this year will be the year that I formally sign up as a member – even if I don’t attend any more games its the year where I believe its right to really ut my money where my mouth is.
Bring on the first kick off. I can’t wait.
Adrian Musolino said | April 22nd 2009 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
Millster, definitely the addition of Gold Coast and Nth Queensland helps. Looking through the fixture list there is so much more variety and crucially a bigger spread between the time teams meet one another. We don’t know what to expect from the new teams and it adds spice with the derbies in Queensland.
Slippery Jim said | April 22nd 2009 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
Michael C, I agree with you.
The A-League fixtures are, and have always been, unfair as they do not play the same amount of home games against other clubs. Can’t fathom why, this season when they had the chance, they didn’t fix it. Irks me.
Michael C said | April 22nd 2009 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
Slippery Jim
“Michael C, I agree with you.”
can I take a picture and frame it?!?!
The Answer said | April 22nd 2009 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
The is certainly some interest in this year’s draw, but like so much of the A-League it isn’t about what is happening on the field.
I think the expansion Qld teams will be interesting, with the Roar (team not website) in dire financial straits it will be interesting to see how the others fare, if Brisbane can’t support an A-League franchise what chance Townsville?
Adelaide United have seemingly had everything in their favour, finals series, Asian football and they still look like they are on life support.
There is obviously a lot more to these financial difficulties and maybe they aren’t as bad as first thought, but it would be good if someone in Australia’s football media asked some tough questions rather than just reworking FFA press releases. Like say, Mike Cockerill reporting what a boost it was for Sydney FC to go to the SCG. If fans aren’t going to the footy friendly Aussie Stadium why would they go next to a cricket oval?
Last year’s A-League was dominated by everyone talking about the teams next year, which was probably why crowds dropped on both Pay TV and at the grounds, hopefully this year won’t be the same.
I’m looking forward to the season, but the competition has probably run out of excuses if the crowds don’t pick up.
Sam said | April 22nd 2009 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
The Answer
Many Sydney rugby league clubs have been making excuses about their crowds for the last 10 (or God knows how many) years, and many are in financial dire straits. I suggest you cut the a-league some slack. The competition is here to stay long term. Get used to it.
You talk about a-league not being about what is happening on the field. Suggest you buy the Daily Telegraph and see what a soap opera really is.
Koala Bear said | April 22nd 2009 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
Slippery Jim,
Time to employ Football executives with integrity who understand the home and away draw system and bring back some integrity to the HAL… “Home and Away”, first past the post anointed “Champions” and turn the finals into a FFA Cup with the carrot being a spot in the ACL … It’s there.. it just needs someone with foresight and guts to fix it….
Ben and Archie are AFL advocates and have been brought up on a steady diet of contrived drawing .. Don’t expect them to understand how to go about a fair draw … I mean to say look at the AFL league how manipulated it is… draft picks etc … Also remember how the first round pitted the Tigers up against Carlton .. God how did that happen..? Boy how lucky that was .?. I mean was that just a small coincidence ..? Cousins up against Judd..?. Oh yeah, it all just came about through the luck of the draw…
On a brighter note: Drogba has tipped 3 trophies for Stamford Bridge’s Trophy room ….
Norm,
Michael Voss reported on the channel 9 NRL Roast ..Ratings for the AFL TV up north slumped badly.. ie head to head with the NRL…. …
so much for the Nap Cup .. the sponsor must be delighted…
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KB
Dave said | April 22nd 2009 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
The Answer
Pay TV viewership grew culminating in a record domestic football rating for the GF (260,000 from memory). Not too bad considering the constant knocking the game received because hold your breath… after 3 seasons of record crowds the figures slipped in a recession atmosphere… well what a disaster! Get real the game is in a magnificent position compared to 4 years ago, which is not to say there isn’t plenty to do to keep things going.
” The is certainly some interest in this year’s draw, but like so much of the A-League it isn’t about what is happening on the field.” Err unlike AFL/NRL where its only just about on the field…where have you been hiding??
The Answer said | April 22nd 2009 @ 6:27pm | Report comment
Sam and Dave,
Don’t get so defensive! The A-League is certainly going well and being a fan of football I’m happy about that. If you ventured out into the real world you may meet people that actually support more than one football code.
I know many rugby league clubs are battling, we’ve seen all the details about Manly and Paramatta, but surely that is a seperate issue.
I am merely interested in knowing what state the Roar and United are in and debating how those problems can be solved. Alternatively I guess I could just stick my head in the sand and repeat the mantra that everything is going so well.
Dave, reports I have read suggested that ratings in Pay TV declined, obviously there is a difference there but in the end remember I’m not interesting in arguing about different codes. I left school too long ago.
Sam said | April 22nd 2009 @ 6:39pm | Report comment
The Answer
If you look at every sport it has its problems. Sydney rugby league clubs was an example I gave as it is happening in every sport. Even Melbourne AFL clubs. So there is no curiosity as to why it wouldn’t be happening with some a-league clubs?
Fact is a-league still needs to develop its core audience for each team. Only Melbourne Victory have come close to doing this. No one is saying everything is going well, but maybe we just see the glass half full, and not half empty. In terms of Adelaide and Brisbane, they are teams which I believe will grow its audience in future. With good management things will turn around.
Millster said | April 22nd 2009 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
KB – on the “FFA Cup” idea I thoroughly agree and in fact invite you to read my own idea on this just across on the other major thread today which is Jesse Fink’s article about the 6 team finals series.
More broadly I am not a purist on the issue of manipulating the draw. As long as each team ends up playing each other team an equal number of times (which is a problem with the AFL I believe where this does not occur – something which is simply ridiculous) then I see no reason why the fixtures cannot be somewhat ’selectively scheduled’ to meet other goals for the competition. These include on-field goals (eg avoiding scheduling clashes within the footballing world and with major games of other codes) and off field goals (eg commercial judgement, exploting opportunities for double-headers or special promotions, etc). Professional sport is in the end an entertainment product and we should not be so naive as to avoid exploiting all the possibilities we can for the success and progress of our beloved game. I do agree though that playing each opposing club not only an equal number of times, but an equal number of times home and away (ie 2 or 4 times a season rather than 3), is the next step again from where we are now.
Finally, Drogba schmogba and pffft to the blues… the real EPL question of importance is whether Spurs have any chance of amazingly clinching a spot in Europe despite the calamitous start to their season…
PS I agree with both Dave and Sam that, taking a step back, if you compare where HAL is now to where we were 7 or 8 years back in Australian football, and also compare versus NRL on live crowds, viewership and more broadly the ’sense’ in the game’s structure then whehter numbers go up or down by 5 or 10% here or there is immaterial because on all counts we are immeasuarbly better off than we were before, have a real little foundation in place now, and without denying the odd mistake are heading in the right direction.
Koala Bear said | April 22nd 2009 @ 7:38pm | Report comment
Millster,
I’m with you except for selective programing of certain fixtures from the draw… The way I see it, is that, every numbered marble should come out of the fish bowl, draw, dates, locations .. Everything… Complete transparency..
Even selecting dates for certain block buster fixtures can change the fortunes of another club at the end of the season.. I say total and complete transparency, is the honest and fairest way to go .. What may be lost in a few extra thousand spectators does not really matter … What matters to me is total transparency of the draw, home and away 2 games or 4..
I love your ideas of a FFA cup with state teams included … All very good thoughts that I first read from you long ago… Also we should aim for a 10 month season like Europe … 4 games home and away will do it .. If we want to pass Japan we need the extra intensity of top flight football .. Then one day we will have a national team as good as Japan from home grown players with a sprinkling of overseas stars instead of the other way around…
PS, Drogba is on fire … he wants three trophies this season and I think he will do it … Best you get on board with our French lads..
Ribery is wanting to join up as well… There you go.. what more incentive do you need Millster…? We’re Blue, we have a French connection and we are winners…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Midfielder said | April 22nd 2009 @ 9:29pm | Report comment
Papa
You said …”"” Ben and Archie are AFL advocates and have been brought up on a steady diet of contrived drawing …”"”
Archie is football to his boot laces was stolen by the AFL to run St Kilda … we have him back in the opinion of many he is the most knowledge football person to hold a senior office in Hal & the old NSL… that is why BB got him in to run the A-League … what he does bring is an understanding of how to run a successful domestic competition in Australia via his AFL training…and take from this training the lessons on how to run the A-League.
Papa be under no elision the AFL understand how to market and run sport in Australia… what ever football traditions maybe overseas.. football in Australia must use the tools that make a sport successful in Australia first … when it is established it can start to build the things you want … but to expect non rusted on folk to understand and comprehend much of what you are saying as a starting point will mean we never get to the starting point..
IMO Archie has more knowledge than most in this country about football .. combined with AFL experience, it is just so clever and I expect he will bring a lot with him… finally look back 4 years and see the state we where in … now look forward 10 years and see where we will be … but we cannot jump there it needs to be build stone by stone brick by brick.
(the MV fans forum is worth reading about Archie http://www.melbournevictory.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51990 )
The FA cup will come sooner rather than latter I suspect before the next media deal and be played mid week. It will replace the finals … but we need to walk first which we can’t at this stage … Obie One when speaking to Like Skywalker said in a famous line … be patient my apprentice you must complete your training and develop your skills … I think this applies to football right now … so KB it will come but these things take time…
Redb said | April 22nd 2009 @ 10:10pm | Report comment
hey KB,
The reason you have second string AFL people running your A League is because there is no futbol people with any idea of how run sport in this country.. be thankful you at least have competent folk if it was up to futbol people the game domesticially would be a basket case again.
Note however that not even the AFL is stupid enough to have 60% of the teams competing in the finals, what a hypocrite you futbol folk are to criticise the AFL and NRL. haha.
Redb
Rellum said | April 22nd 2009 @ 10:50pm | Report comment
If you want fair, then everyone would play each other twice, home and away from a totally random draw. All games would be on a Sunday afternoon and the winner would be the team that tops the league at the end of the season. I think what we are really arguing here is how close can we get to that in a world totally driven by marketing and commercial concerns.
While I am not a fan of the 6 team final series, I can live with it for one season. If the FFA switch to an 8 teams final series when teams 11 and 12 come in, then that would be the final joke.
Midfielder said | April 22nd 2009 @ 11:17pm | Report comment
Redb
I agree with you if we had football people run the A-League it would never have got off the ground… But I don’t think that BB was second rate as I understand it he was number 2 at the AFL…
But credit where credit is due the AFL run a very professional domestic competition and it’s ability to work with the media and get what it wants is a real credit to many years nay decades of professionalism … The ownership of poker machine and pubs in Melbourne is a huge credit to a forward thinking management… Further i think well before last year the AFL has been on a kinda war footing looking to expand whilst building unshakable foundations in the Southern States and Melbourne in particular…
I think JON was replaced because of his lack of domestic competition experience and I get the sense that Obie One sees a strong domestic competition as the way forward for football and he will use if he can get them the best talent the country has … a lot of the best talent and experience is in the AFL so expect more raids … BTW the Perth Glory manager has been recruited to the AFL … meaning as I see it talented sporting managers are in high demand so I think there could be a lt of changes.
Michael C said | April 23rd 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
KB – you’re carrying on again
Yesterday you said the following:
Ben and Archie are AFL advocates and have been brought up on a steady diet of contrived drawing .. Don’t expect them to understand how to go about a fair draw … I mean to say look at the AFL league how manipulated it is… draft picks etc … Also remember how the first round pitted the Tigers up against Carlton .. God how did that happen..? Boy how lucky that was .?. I mean was that just a small coincidence ..? Cousins up against Judd..?.
Answer is Yes.
When the draw was put together, the ‘contrived’ element was Carlton vs Richmond kicking off the season, which they are seeking to make a regular event.
At that point, Ben Cousins was no where to be seen. Certainly not at Richmond.
There was zero Cousins-Judd contrivance at that point.
You need to check your timelines before flying off the handle.
Michael C said | April 23rd 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
KB -
re the marbles draw for a fixture –
those days are long, long, long gone.
Apart from anything else, you have the various issues of venue availability.
You like to pick on the AFL oh so much, but, between the various cities, there are big issues of managing the venues with competing interests.
Then, because we don’t live in a vacuum – in various cities, Union and AFL for example work a program of avoiding head to head fixturing. Common sense really – but, it means that marbles start getting compromised!!!
That’s at the simple level.
Midfielder -
careful how much you pump up the AFL. Professionalism – - there’s plenty of argument the other way!!!! (on certain points at least). But, fair enough – relative to the NSL – yep, the AFL and even the old VFL I guess win on that count.
btw – the 8 into 4 finals was in place well before either Buckley or Fraser came along. I dare say that Mr.Frank Lowy has had a fair input into all of this from the outset.
Koala Bear said | April 23rd 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Bring back Frank Lowy and John O’Neill team … Ben and Archie (Mac & Mire for hire) have taken the HAL a step backwards …
Yep, you are the guys saying that the HAL has stalled .. with the AFL men in charge … have to agree… with you and SJ…
Ah yes the transparency of the gold fish bowl with the numbered marbles too simple or difficult for AFL to comprehend … However, still in operation for all the Major FIFA tournaments.. You say those days are gone .. Yes indeed in AFL … where transparancy went out the window with AFL fixtures…
PS, any news on the Option Contract … still waiting on the exercise price for Docklands… Where’s the transparency..?
~~~~~~~~~
KB
Michael C said | April 23rd 2009 @ 1:38pm | Report comment
KB -
again, the FFA has missed the chance -
MVFC play away on the weekend before the Melb Cup.
The unofficial 4 day weekend, big party atmosphere, a perfect time for MVFC to host AUFC or SFC at Etihad……and they send MVFC on Sunday evening, Nov 1, to invisible Perth.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | April 27th 2009 @ 7:51pm | Report comment
Until such stage as teams have dedicated stadiums then there will always be access issues that the FFA has to take into consideration with the draw. At this stage only Adelaide United has a football dedicated stadium though one or two other sides do have access to stadiums with light usage. Whilst the new stadium in Melbourne will help ease this congestion there introduction of new sides using code-sharing stadiums will cause more timing issues. As such a purely random draw is not possible, nor is it particularly financially desirable. Fairness isn’t always the sensible option.